Carol,
I think your friend David summed it up well in the second paragraph of his
introduction to that portion of his website. Variations in the presentation
of either the manufacturer information, or in some cases the contents
information, are not uncommon. For any particular order or run, multiple
molds might be formed by various craftsman. Compound this by a form that
might be used for a number of years and variations in the presentation of
the information is not that surprising (as stated [I believe correctly] on
the web site). Don't forget that the companies would often change the style
of their own marks as well.
All I was trying to get across is that an analyst cannot afford to be a
"literalist" when looking at historical-period material culture. Only after
analyzing all of the clues can we put forward our best guess!
mas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Serr" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: BP Co bottle
> Matt,
>
> I am in total agreement with you about the little (yes, 1.5" tall) bottle
> being attributed to the Brunswick Pharmacal company....and not Beck et
> al. I actually did not mean to send my correspondence to Ron...to the
> Histarch folks. oops. Obviously I forgot to check the TO address...not
> once, but twice!! Sheesh. (but I DID mean to send this one to the List).
>
> David Whitten...the author of the bottle maker website I initially
referred
> Ron to (since I just Had to find something)...had asked me (after I
> informed him of Ron's bottle) to make sure there was an ampersand in Ron's
> marking....since there should NOT be...if it was indeed Brunswick...since
> there is no "and" in this company name (so why would they throw in one in
> their mark???).
>
> I have since found two postings for the same or similar medicine bottles
> online (but no pic)...and these dont use the '&' symbol...so are the same
> as Fike lists. This is why it is very puzzling to me that Ron's bottle HA
S
> an '&.' David thot it was quite odd too...since he knew Beck et al.
"only"
> (my word, not David's) made fruit jars...and it would be unexpected for
> them to make other types (in this company's case - not applied generally
> across the country, etc.).
>
> Yes David has used Toulouse's reference a lot, but he has also included
> other info, further details, corrected dates of company operation,
> etc...that he's found in other sources, etc.. His website is probably the
> most "up to date" as far as recent 'corrections' to much of Toulouse's
> bottle date info...or even company attribution.
>
> I think Ron needs to reconsider his classification of his bottle
> company....that it was not made by Beck...but what the heck is the AND
> doing on his...when it isnt on others????
> Can you explain that Matt? :o)
>
> At 09:29 AM 7/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >I really, really don't want to beat a dead horse here, but if Ron chooses
to
> >use the Beck, Phillips & Co. designation as the manufacturer of the
> >container, he would be flat out wrong. The main evidence for this
assertion
> >comes from several clues. First and foremost is the size, shape, and
color
> >of the container itself. I unfortunately immediately deleted Ron's
initial
> >post, but I seem to recall that he indicated the bottle was diminutive, 1
> >1/2" if I recall correctly. And I believe he also indicated that it was
> >cobalt. And that it had a mark of a reverse P and a forward P (sharing
the
> >same stem) within a circle in addition to the BP&Co. mark. Did he also
> >mention that it had a prescription finish?
> >
> >Ok, the small size and prescription finish clearly suggest that it was
most
> >likely a bottle containing some sort of pharmaceutical product. This is
> >generally reinforced by the cobalt blue color (although this is not as
hard
> >and fast of a rule). These facts would reinforce the interpretation
> >forwarded by Fike, who presents a description of a slightly larger (what
did
> >I say that it was . . . between 2 and 3 inches?) vessel that is also
cobalt,
> >and which also has the matching manufacturer's mark (the 2 P's sharing a
> >single stem)! His attribution of the container holding dyspepsia tablets
> >makes perfect sense.
> >
> >Another line of argument lies within the P's themselves. If the BP&Co.
> >indicates the manufacturer of the container, are the P's there to
designate
> >the contents? It is infrequent that such symbolic representation is used
for
> >product identification during the early period of glass container
> >manufacture. It is infinitely more logical that stylized representations
> >(such as the 2 P's) would be used to identify the manufacturer of the
> >container.
> >
> >Final line of argument lies in the fact that the website that you are
basing
> >your attribution on clearly indicates that it relies heavily on Toulouse
for
> >a lot of its information. A quick look at "Fruit-Jar Manufacturers..."
shows
> >that Toulouse has Beck, Phillips & Co. (your Pittsburgh attribution as
the
> >manufacturer) is primarily a manufacturer of jars. In my research I have
> >rarely seen many jar manufacturing companies also manufacturing cobalt
> >prescriptions (George, Bill, hold your tongues, I said rarely).
> >
> >Anyway, I really don't want to sound like I'm harping on anyone, because
I'm
> >not. I just want everyone to become a little more aware of how to read
and
> >interpret the information we see on the bottom of containers that we find
in
> >the field. This is often the only information we have to effectively
> >interpret a site.
> >
> >Matthew Sterner
> >Senior Project Director
> >Statistical Research, Inc.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Carol Serr" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:17 AM
> >Subject: Re: BP Co bottle
> >
> >
> > > Hmmm....this is puzzling. Wish I remembered about the bottle I had
> > > seen...like yours. Apparently it is not still posted
online...wherever
> >I'd
> > > seen it. Darn.
> > >
> > > Thanks Ron!
> > >
> > > At 03:58 AM 7/1/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >Carol,
> > > >
> > > >This has the mark "BP & Co" and below there is a raised embossed
circle
> >with
> > > >a "P" next to a reversed "P" and the color is cobalt and a rounded
body.
> >I am
> > > >sure it is the Beck & Phillips. That date is most interesting.
> > > >
> > > >Ron
> > >
> > >
>
>
|