Dear BEE-L subscribers,

    On 11/5/03 Jim Fischer responded (in part) to my earlier messages,
as follows:

I had written:

>  With super care, a pure sucrose solution yields zero recruits...

He responded:

I object to the presentation of the above claim as fact.
It remains to be proven.  Evidence at hand contradicts it.
Until it is proven, it will remain an extraordinary claim.

As I have pointed out before, extraordinary claims
require extraordinary evidence.

Claims which are asserted without evidence
can be dismissed without evidence.

***********

He also wrote:

Perhaps part of the problem here is that the results cited are
"published" only on a website, in a section called "Point Of View",
along with a wide range of opinions from the extreme fringes of
beekeeping, in net effect comprising a "Gilligan's Island of science".

The entire group of "views" can thus be dismissed as "unpublished",
as they have attempted to avoid the peer review process.

************

    Quite obviously, in his apparent eagerness to dismiss the essence
of my postings, Mr. Fischer has not digested material in those
earlier postings, such as those on 9/16 (1:59 p.m.), 9/19 (4:57
a.m.), and 9/19 (10:35 a.m.).  Neither has he apparently accessed the
URLs included in those postings.

    If he had, he would know by now that the evidence he keeps
demanding is published in our double peer-reviewed 1990 Columbia
University Press book, ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY.  He would also know
that the URLs I have presented contain original peer-reviewed
publications, with evidence intact.

    I will be happy to mail him a copy of our 1990 book for $20,
postage paid (e-bay price at last listing of $80), provided he will
promise to read it.  (I already privately sent him a full set of
comments by established scientists in various fields that pertain to
that book and other publications (all peer-reviewed).

    As indicated earlier, in my postings I have striven to direct
people to the information that relates to the issues at hand.

    As for extraordinary claims, a little bug (in Mr. Fischer's terms)
such as a bee could hardly have a "language" -- an extraordinary
claim.  If that was already a "fact," why have millions been spent
this past century trying (but failing repeatedly) to obtain that
necessary "extraordinary evidence" (Mr. Fischer's term)?

    And, as mentioned earlier, beekeepers have yet to benefit from all
that expenditure.

                                                        Adrian

--
Adrian M. Wenner                (805) 963-8508 (home office phone)
967 Garcia Road                 [log in to unmask]
Santa Barbara, CA  93103        www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm

*************************************************************
*    "People have a right to their opinions --
*  but that doesn't mean all opinions are of equal value."
*
*  Pot Shot #9108 by Ashleigh Brilliant, used by permission
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