I think this subject has been played out and I would like to suggest we
close it with the following observations:
(1) Education on both the undergraduate and graduate levels does
count and we
need such a general system.
(2) Practical Education is just, if not more, important in
archaeology.
(3) Letters after a name do mean something but there have always
been outstanding scholars with
only Esquire (or whatever the female equivalent is??)
after their names. Fortunately there always
will be such contributors.
(4) Being interested in scholarly things is primarily a matter of
psychology and personality. Do you
find the human past and its endless mysteries fascinating
- that is the issue.
(5) We are all historical archaeologists and thus belong to one
of the most central, active and wonderful
communities of researchers on the planet.
We will all see this community [or at least a good part of
it] in action if we go to St Louis
in January 2004. Lewis, Clark and Vergil Noble will all be
there.
Bob
Schuyler
At 12:38 PM 9/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--Boundary_(ID_y3JfJfZbBERcqrEmardGCg)
>Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>So Dan...you're stating that only those who rise above "simple technician"
>are "good"?? I was urged to get my Master's for many yrs, but was
>realistic and knew without a special interest, I would not be motivated to
>write a thesis...at least not as well as I would want to produce as an
>example of my work. Not that I'm not interested in aspects of my
>profession...my problem is that I can't seem to specialize...narrow things
>down...I like it all (well, most)....and attempt to do my best in all
>aspects. I also knew I couldn't keep up with all the reading,
>presentations, papers, etc. demanded in a graduate program, while working
>full-time (and presumably going to night school)...since I have no one else
>to help with my financial support (and choose not to take out loans). I
>also do not like public speaking, so was terrified of the presentations one
>has to give in grad. classes.
>
>Does this mean I don't have the ability to be a "good" archaeologist
>tho? I would hope my 25+ yrs of experience would help me grow in my
>field(s). But, I must admit, I have meet some dolts who don't seem to
>Learn new tricks...after many yrs in the field. I know people getting paid
>more than me who can't tell where the bulb on a flake is...yet they record
>prehistoric sites in the field on survey...and make tallies of flake types,
>etc. HOW do they do this? I can't trust their data, after seeing how
>these people don't even know flake morphology....after going thru school
>and many yrs of experience. Yet I never learned anything about artifacts,
>site recording, etc. in the required college courses I took. The
>university I went to, at that time, didn't have prehistoric archaeologists
>who taught lab classes (as I think they do know, there). Yet I learned
>on-the-job (after graduating) and quickly, and IMO, have a knack for flaked
>lithic analysis, etc. I also feel that learning to make stone tools is
>helpful to learn about flaked tool technology, but most univ. programs
>don't include this (other than a few like UC Riverside, CA and WSU in
>Pullman, WA) in their curriculum.
>
>No...this isn't dealing with historic archy...but the issue is the
>same. There certainly weren't any lab course on learning about historic
>artifacts at the univ. I attended in the late 70s. Anyway, I know a lot,
>but don't have the letters after my name (nor the student loan debt)...just
>the same. No I wasn't well trained upon gaining my B.A., but without
>practical experience, I doubt many "newbees" are. And yes higher degrees
>should be recognized...but I don't feel a person should be give
>considerably higher status (pay) immediately without any practical
>experience, even if they spent more time (and money) in school. I've meant
>some real idiots with MAs or PhDs....so am not too impressed..by "all" of
>them. This doesn't mean some...or even the majority don't have their act
>together. We seem to remember the idiots.
>
>And yes...I do know How to spell correctly (when I need to). :o)
>
>Carol Serr
>Lab Director
>Mooney & Associates
>
>At 07:26 PM 9/2/03 -0500, you wrote:
> > What's the point in wasting our student loans if the current system
> > doesn't recognize academia and the letters after our names? I've met and
> > read twice as many badly trained, poorly equipped archaeos with a BS/BA
> > as I have good ones.
>
> >The good ones consistently strive to rise above the level of simple
> >technician or methodologists. The rest we have to put up with occasionally:)
> >
> >Dan Allen
>
>--Boundary_(ID_y3JfJfZbBERcqrEmardGCg)
>Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
>So Dan...you're stating that only those who rise above "simple technician"
>are "good"?? I was urged to get my Master's for many yrs, but was
>realistic and knew without a special interest, I would not be motivated to
>write a thesis...at least not as well as I would want to produce as an
>example of my work. Not that I'm not interested in aspects of my
>profession...my problem is that I can't seem to specialize...narrow things
>down...I like it all (well, most)....and attempt to do my best in all
>aspects. I also knew I couldn't keep up with all the reading,
>presentations, papers, etc. demanded in a graduate program, while working
>full-time (and presumably going to night school)...since I have no one
>else to help with my financial support (and choose not to take out
>loans). I also do not like public speaking, so was terrified of the
>presentations one has to give in grad. classes.
>
>Does this mean I don't have the ability to be a "good" archaeologist
>tho? I would hope my 25+ yrs of experience would help me grow in my
>field(s). But, I must admit, I have meet some dolts who don't seem to
>Learn new tricks...after many yrs in the field. I know people getting
>paid more than me who can't tell where the bulb on a flake is...yet they
>record prehistoric sites in the field on survey...and make tallies of
>flake types, etc. HOW do they do this? I can't trust their data, after
>seeing how these people don't even know flake morphology....after going
>thru school and many yrs of experience. Yet I never learned anything
>about artifacts, site recording, etc. in the required college courses I
>took. The university I went to, at that time, didn't have prehistoric
>archaeologists who taught lab classes (as I think they do know,
>there). Yet I learned on-the-job (after graduating) and quickly, and
>IMO, have a knack for flaked lithic analysis, etc. I also feel that
>learning to make stone tools is helpful to learn about flaked tool
>technology, but most univ. programs don't include this (other than a few
>like UC Riverside, CA and WSU in Pullman, WA) in their curriculum.
>
>No...this isn't dealing with historic archy...but the issue is the
>same. There certainly weren't any lab course on learning about historic
>artifacts at the univ. I attended in the late 70s. Anyway, I know a lot,
>but don't have the letters after my name (nor the student loan
>debt)...just the same. No I wasn't well trained upon gaining my B.A., but
>without practical experience, I doubt many "newbees" are. And yes higher
>degrees should be recognized...but I don't feel a person should be give
>considerably higher status (pay) immediately without any practical
>experience, even if they spent more time (and money) in school. I've
>meant some real idiots with MAs or PhDs....so am not too impressed..by
>"all" of them. This doesn't mean some...or even the majority don't have
>their act together. We seem to remember the idiots.
>
>And yes...I do know How to spell correctly (when I need to). :o)
>
>Carol Serr
>Lab Director
>Mooney & Associates
>
>At 07:26 PM 9/2/03 -0500, you wrote:
> What's the point in wasting our student loans if the current system
> doesn't recognize academia and the letters after our names? I've met and
> read twice as many badly trained, poorly equipped archaeos with a BS/BA
> as I have good ones.
>
>
>The good ones consistently strive to rise above the level of simple
>technician or methodologists. The rest we have to put up with occasionally:)
>
>Dan Allen
>
>
>--Boundary_(ID_y3JfJfZbBERcqrEmardGCg)--
Robert L. Schuyler
University of Pennsylvania Museum
33rd & Spruce Streets
Philadelphia, PA l9l04-6324
Tel: (215) 898-6965
Fax: (215) 898-0657
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