Hello Allen and All,

> Is this what she said?  Or is it how you interpreted what she said?

After her talk I asked the first  question.

I asked if she was  talking about capensis or   scuts with thelytoky. She
said capensis. I thought she would say they (USDA BEE lab) were  seeing  AHb
with a scut   type thelytoky. She said what they were seeing in the feral
colonies were  capensis  traits (Her words).

I was shocked as I did not   know  any  capensis  (or capensis genes) were
still around  from the   Dr. Kerr 1957 release.

If you read my BEE-L posts after I returned from the convention the  story
is in the posts  and backed up by two beekeepers which were in the room.
Hamilton from Canada and Blane White. Both posted  she said  the  word
capensis to describe  the feral bees of Arizona. Both said in posts which
can be pulled up from late january/ early February  that they  understood
from her the same   points  I understood and am posting now  and posted back
then.

> Did she actually refer to thelytoky and other Arizona feral bee
> characteristics as 'capensis traits', or merely mention that capensis has
> the thelytoky trait, and explain that thelytoky has been observed, to a
> much lesser extent, in other bees?  There is a huge difference.

Maybe Blane  or Hamilton will come forward as they did back then and back me
up as both are on our list but have not posted in awhile.

>
> > Could capensis genes explain some of Dees success? I believe it could.
>
> Well, it could -- if there were any evidence of capensis genes.

Don't kill the messenger here . I am glad the statements she made were in
public  for all to hear. I am only passing on information which was given to
all of us at the talk by the *head* of the Tucson bee lab. I believe the bee
lab has ran some dna tests  or Dr. Hoffman would not say with confidence
she  was looking at capensis genes (but only my opinion).
I am sure Dr. Hoffman could be contacted through the lab and   would comment
further. I thought about contacting her but never did.

I was told several times through the years by Dr. shiminuki that if capensis
ever arrived in the U.S. commercial beekeeping would be in dires straits.
Just the opposite may have happened. Dees bees if my hypothesis is correct
have picked up the best of capensis and very little (if any) of the
undisirable capensis traits. A capensis breeders dream. Barry Seargant of
our list from South Africa  told me once in a private email that trying to
breed a desirable capensis  was a waste of time. He gave  up on the notion
and instead is trying with success to breed a desirable  scut. He did say
capensis was black and  not an aggressive bee.


  If it > were a simple answer like capensis, the word would be out, and
there would  be no mystery.

Dr. Gloria DeGrandi -Hoffman did announce to the American Beekeeping
convention in savannah, Georgia at 9:30 am on January 17th that  capensis
genes  are in the feral colonies the USDA bee lab Tucson, Arizona has been
looking at. Dr. DeGrandi-Hoffman is the researcher in charge.

Would  the story be more believable if president George Bush made the
announcement at the white house?

.

 I believe Dr. DeGrandi Hoffman  will talk willingly about her  AND HER
STAFFS conclusions if asked. Why wouldn't they?

de supplied the Tucson lab with bee samples for many years,

I know she did once and  she said her bees were not africanized. Dee also
said all bees in the U.S. carried africanized genes in a couple of her
posts.

 Dr. DeGrandi Hoffman SAID all bees of Arizona should be considered
Africanized in her talk. With all due respect how can Dee and Ed Lusby run
around 800 hives in the Tucson area and  say their bees are not africanized?

I believe Ed and Dee are part of a  dying breed of American beekeeper which
has  spent  many many years  of   hard ,hot and   sweaty work in the art of
beekeeping. I  put myself in the same group (along with my friend Allen
Dick)   I respect the Lusby's  accomplishments like I have said before on
Bee-L. I respect  the Lusbys for allowing the people on Bee-L to discuss the
pros and cons of their findings.

I  do believe my hypothesis about the capensis genes is valid. This whole
post is to simply get at the  truth whatever   the  truth might be.

 and if
> I remember correctly, Lusbys told me that thelytoky is not a new
> characteristic in Lusby bees; thelytoky was observed by previous
> generations -- long before Kerr's bees got to Tucson.

I am a realist. I watch CSI ( crime scene investigation)everyweek if I can.
*Follow the evidence*
I believe my hypothesis is believeable especially after the announcement
from the bee lab (about 30 minutes from Dee Lusbys ) finding of capensis
genes in the bees of Arizona and that all bees in Arizona  should be
considered africanized. I do not know if Dr. Hoffman included  all
commercial hives in her statement. She may have only been talking about the
feral colonies..

My hypothesis is not  as glamorous sounding a hypothesis as this old race of
mystical bees exist which posses thelytoky triaits and  are imune to all the
problems  of todays beekeeping.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison