From: Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>
> I posted in a early post the problem could take years to reach the level we
> see in South Africa. I predicted if the cape bee is not stopped in South
> Africa in 20 years capensis will be the only race of bee. I am not alone in
> my thinking.
Hello Bob -
Maybe not alone in your thinking, but there are other viewpoints that are
just as pointed. I find it interesting this one point that is made in the
article Jim Fischer posted.
"Yet, despite their seeming success in the Darwinian game of outbreeding the
competition, the Cape bee clones are apparently incapable of establishing
self-sustaining hives of their own."
I find this to be quite a major bit of important info about the Cape bee. I
will stay away from the claim you have been making that reportedly all of AZ
bees have the Capensis trait as I can't prove a thing about it. What I do
have some firsthand experience with is being around and seeing the Lusby's
hives both at their out yards and in town.
I wrote earlier:
> Certainly this is not what ones sees with the Lusby's hives.
What one sees is an abundance of growth in their bees, strong build-up and
very active foragers. Foraging traits that most have never seen in their
bees I would bet. Traits that most of us would love to have. Fly in colder
temps, earlier/later foraging times, these are what I observed. In fact, I
haven't heard of other beekeepers in AZ having this Capensis problem. The
ones I've been in contact with don't mention this.
> I do not know the level of pseudo queen activity in the Lusbys bees.
Nor do I, but remember Dee has claimed that this trait of thelytoky has been
observed by several generations of family beekeepers. All this data must be
included in our discussion and not simply ignored if it doesn't fit our own
explanation. It seems the tendency is to group all AZ bees into one neat
bundle and call them X (X=AHB, X=Capensis, X=?).
> If those slides Dr. Hoffman showed were indeed Lusbys bees as Dee claims then
> there is only one way her bees could survive. Breed from those black
> capensis workers and keep capensis queens in her hives.
It should be made clear that it is your opinion, and not fact, that her
black bees are capensis. I know of no one that can say what they are and
show the proof to back it up. Let's be careful what we say. "Capensis like
traits" is a far cry from being "Capensis." You're boldly stepping where no
one has ever stepped before.
> My concern:
> AHb is documented in most of Arizona as pictured on the 2001 USDA map. The
> USDA lab has pictures of AHB bees on their website IN ARIZONA. I believe I
> have proven beyound a shadow of a doubt Arizona has AHB.
"Having AHB" and "mostly AHB" are two different worlds. We must also look
closely as to the methods used for determining Africanization (sp?). If
you're talking about some of the AHB's that have been written/reported about
that are extremely defensive and agitated easily, no one would desire these
bees. On the other hand, I'm sure there are a multitude of hives that may
have some degree of African genes that behave quite well and exhibit some
very fine traits. Are we to label these bees with minimal percentage of
these genes, Africanized? If so, what is the justification for it?
> I was shown slides of pseudo queen activity by Dr. Hoffman
Dee has now responded to this. I'm interested in your response to the part
where she said that they have been shipping their bees around the country
for several generations. This does not support some of the recent opposing
claims being made.
> Do you honestly believe there is
> no AHb in Arizona and capensis type traits are a good thing for U.S.
> beekeeping?
Personally I believe there are AHB's in Arizona. Certainly not to the degree
some claim it to be. I'm still waiting for an official stance on what makes
a bee Africanized. What is the yardstick being used to determine this? Is it
the right yardstick for the job? AHB is here and it's here to stay. We
better learn to live with it. Erickson, Erickson and Young offered their
recommendation:
http://www.beesource.com/pov/ahb/bcoct86.htm
"1. Develop a program of honey bee selection and breeding that specifically
addresses the needs and capabilities of commercial queen and package bee
producers: One that they can readily implement. We must recognize that the
burden for the day to day work that will solve the AB problem in the United
States must necessarily rest with beekeepers and queen breeders (public
institutions/scientists are too few in number to accomplish this objective).
If done correctly, we will minimize the effect of undesirable behavioral
traits, take advantage of desirable AB traits and thus build a stronger bee
industry than we have had. Adjustments in existing breeding programs will be
necessary."
Now 16 years later, is this out of the question and not possible?
>> Rarely is something as bad as we first think it is, or could be.
>
> If you have got a solution for capensis please post as the situation in
> South Africa is looking bleak.
Bob, I don't believe there is solid evidence to support this claim that
there are Capensis in AZ just like in SA.
Regards,
Barry
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