Mike Leghorn wrote:

>>Who said anything about a score.  I was the one of suggested the
>>scenario of hearing Eroica in my head.  I didn't mean seeing the score,
>>I meant hearing the music.  For exampe: dah dee daahhh, duh dah dah dee
>>deeeeeee....  That's the opening of the Eroica -- can you hear it in your
>>head?

Steve Schwarz replied to Mike Leghorn:

>You forgot the opening DUM!  DUM!  (no criticism intended)

Oops, I forgot!  Btw, did you know that Beethoven took the dah dee
daahhh, duh dah dah dee deeeeeee theme (without modification) from a
Mozart overture.  I don't remember the name of the overture, but I did
hear it once, and that theme stuck out as clear as day.  Actually, I think
that the Eroica was somewhat of a tribute to Mozart.  For one thing, I
think that the complexity of the last movement of Mozart's 41st provided
the "proof of concept" which gave Beethoven the courage to embark upon the
complexity in the development of the 1st movement of the Eroica.  Also,
Beethoven used four notes in the last movement in a similar way that Mozart
used four notes as a basis for intensely complex counterpoint in the 41st.
Beethoven, much later in his career, used four notes again as a basis for
counterpoint, in his late String Quartets, but this time, the four notes
were taken directly from Mozart 41st.  Actually, the exact match can be
found in the 3rd movement of the 41st, towards the end of the trio (B
section), where Mozart uses a variation of the four notes of the last
movement.

Since I've become aware of the significance of these four notes, I think
I've discovered another similar usage of four notes in the first movement
of Vaughn Williams' 8th Symphony.  He also uses a four note sequence in the
3rd and 4th movements of his 4th Symphony.  In the transition from the 3rd
to 4th movement of the 4th Symphony, Vaughn Williams alludes to Beethoven's
5th.  The allusion becomes especially clear with the brass announces it's
victorious theme (albeit short-lived), which is in the same vein as the
triumphant brassy theme in the opening of the finale of Beethoven's 5th.

Mike