Actually, the published data for adult males in the major cities during
each of the U. S. federal censuses is just as easy to find as the data for
total population. I was able to find the data, and discovered that one of
Noel's assertions that Denver had a higher per capita number of saloons at
various points in times was in error. This error occurred because he was
comparing Denver's population, which was heavily skewed towards adult
males, to cities like Chicago, Milwaukee and New York, which had a more
even distribution of men, women and children. It might appear that there
were more saloons per capita in Denver than there were in Chicago, but when
adjusted to consider only the adult male population, there was no
difference. If I remember correctly, the number saloons in most major
metropolitan areas of the late 19th and early 20th century appeared to
hover around one for every 80 adult male residents of a community. I found
the data in the published population schedules and was able to recalculate
his figures very easily.
The effects of high license and local other factors can effect the ratio,
but I'm certainly getting off the subject here. What I had meant in the
beginning is that Tom Noel wrote a very fine case study on the evolution of
the saloon in one major metropolitan area, and I don't mean to besmirch it
with such nitpicking.
Cathy Spude
paul courtney
<paul.courtney2@NT To: [log in to unmask]
LWORLD.COM> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: comparative data on saloons
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]>
01/21/03 08:53 PM
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Please respond to
HISTORICAL
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Being married to someone with a PhD in pub tokens as well as being a
specialist in documentary history (albeit British) I suspect he used total
population because it was easily obtainable from census abstracts and that
finding the number of adult males might require going through every census
page by page. I am only guessing but such reasoning is often behind these
choices.
paul courtney
Leicester
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cathy Spude" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: comparative data on saloons
> Ron:
>
> Tom Noel wrote the definitive work on the history of saloons in Denver
for
> his PhD dissertation. He's a family friend and I know him well. That
> doesn't mean Tom knows much about the archeology of saloons. He's a fine
> historian and I have used his book for information (some of it could use
> rethinking, such as comparing the number of saloons to the number of
PEOPLE
> in a community instead of the number of ADULT MALES in the period before
> prohibition, when women were not allowed to be customers of saloons in
most
> states and territories in the west). He also gives a great talk and tour,
> as he loves his subject matter.
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
>
> Ron May
> <[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
> > cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: comparative
data on saloons
> HISTORICAL
> ARCHAEOLOGY
> <[log in to unmask]
> >
>
>
> 01/16/03 10:15 PM
> EST
> Please respond to
> HISTORICAL
> ARCHAEOLOGY
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cathy,
>
> At the 1983 SHA Conference in Denver, one of the evening tours was a
Saloon
> Crawl led by a chap who did his dissertation on the saloons of Denver. He
> published a book on the topic, as well. I seem to recall a rascal named
> "Soapy" who died in a shoot-out in Skagway who also worked the saloons of
> Denver, making me think you should look to Denver for some of your
answers.
> Twenty years is just too long to recall the name of the guy who wrote on
> saloons, but maybe Smoke Pfiefer or Roderick Spraque or one of the others
> on that tour will recall.
>
> Ron May
> Legacy 106, Inc.
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