Hello Barry and All,
Barry asked:
> Playing devils advocate, let's say that a lot, or most, of the colonies in
> Arizona have Capensis in the bees. According to the above, colonies would
die out and/or beekeepers would be left with unproductive hives. Where is
the data from AZ showing that this is what's happening?

I posted in a early post the problem could take years  to reach the level we
see in South Africa. I predicted if the cape bee is not stopped in South
Africa in 20 years capensis will be the only race of bee. I am not alone in
my thinking.

Barry wrote:
Certainly this is  not what ones sees with the Lusby's hives.

I do not know the level of pseudo queen activity in the Lusbys bees. If
those slides  Dr. Hoffman showed were indeed Lusbys bees as Dee claims then
there is only one way her bees could  survive.  Breed from those black
capensis workers and keep capensis queens in her hives. The capensis workers
would drift into any other race   and  start the scenario i described in the
last post.
Barry wrote:
How does one make sense of the
> two apparently different stories/data that we are being given.

I did a post which brought out the moderator black flag so am going at the
subject  differently. Possibly one of the other moderators will approve my
pending post as I thought I was being civil but asking a few direct
questions of Dee. Lets look at the two sides of the discussion.
What are the two stories  Barry refers to above.:
One story:
The Lusbys say there is no AHb in Arizona and that those pseudo queen
pictures  were taken of her bees in 1990. She sees the traits in the slides
as traits to breed for.

My concern:
AHb is documented in most of  Arizona as pictured on the 2001 USDA map. The
USDA lab has pictures of AHB bees on their website IN ARIZONA. I believe I
have proven beyound a shadow of a doubt Arizona has AHB.

 I was shown slides of pseudo queen activity by Dr. Hoffman which she said
was common in the FERAL colonies in Arizona and she considers a threat to
pollination . At the end of the Hoffman talk I asked the first question: Was
she refering to capensis traits and the answer was . Yes!
My partner was sitting next to me and will verify. Blane was in the room and
heard the talk and drew the same conclusions.

When I posted about the talk on bee-L Dee jumped me saying she saw nothing
bad about bees with capensis type traits and thought the capensis type
traits were a good thing. Hopefully by now she has realized by my capensis
posts why my concern. She also said those bees in Dr. Hoffmans presentation
were from her hives and not feral colonies.

Are those not the two sides to the issue? Do you honestly believe there is
no AHb in Arizona and capensis type traits are a good thing for U.S.
beekeeping?


> Rarely is something as bad as we first think it is, or could be.

If you have got a solution for capensis please post as the situation in
South Africa is looking bleak.

Barry also wrote:
 AHB shows  this to be true.

Let me give you a couple quotes from Dewey Caron's new book
"Africanized Honey Bees in the Americas"
I am not sure the exact number of trips Dr. Caron has made to study
Africanized honey bees but my guess would be between 10 - 20 trips.

pg. 179
"After 30 years we have not developed a better Africanized bee for
beekeeping except *maybe* in brazil"

pg. 182
" The Africanized process leads not to a hybred bee but to the AFRICAN BEE"


 Now it is Capensis and I fear it too will generate far more
> hype than actual fact.

What facts do we know  for sure:
1. slides were taken in ARIZONA of *capensis like* pseudo queen activity. In
other words a European hive being taken over by pseudo queens.
2. Dee stepped forward and said those were slides of her bees taken in 1990
by Dr. Hoffman. I assume she was referring to the "Lus Bee " project posted
at Beesource.com.in which both Dr. Hoffman and Dr. Erickson worked on.

speculation on my part:
swarms came from the "lus bee" project and started the pseudo queen problem
Dr. Hoffman refers to in the feral bees of Arizona.

Interesting discussion!
Sincerely,
Bob Harrison