Hello All,
Bob wrote:
Unlike the old days where AFB was clearly visible now we are finding only a
  few cells per side and the bees have cleaned out everything but the scale.
Bee Crofter wrote:
 Is there any pattern to the distribution of the scales? Center edges ect.
Bob wrote:
It is hard to say but the cells with scale we have found have all been
obviously in the center oval brood rearing area. We have found typical type
frames with scatered AFB pattern but on most all is left is a few scales.
Hygenic bees only cleaning up part of the mess are in my opinion making
detection harder. *In my opinion* hygenic bees might not be what you want if
you were doing a cull and burn policy. Hygenic bees would however be a big
asset for a apiary using regular treatments of  antibiotics for the active
disease and those treating and seeing trramycin resistant AFB. I realize
today by the time I finnish answering Allen & George's posts I will raise a
few eyebrows. There are researchers on the Bee-L list better able to respond
to these questions than an  beekeeper searching for complex answers. Before
those researchers leap on me I will say to all. AFB scale in my opinion is a
sure sign you are looking *in my opinion* at a AFB frame.  Correct me if I
am wrong. The lab tests for AFB are several but still *in my opinion* the
scale is the key in the last stage. The rule of thumb beekeepers use to buy
used equipment by.
 Bee Crofter wrote:
   I have a few iffy deadout frames, no ropey mess some dead larvae belly
up,
 no smell of decay ,but no discernable scales.
   I am curious to hear a description of a frame of dead brood from a non
AFB  demise.

Excellent question raised. Parasitic Mite syndrome frames closely resemble
AFB frames. We see many of those type frames since varroa arrived. The above
description in my opinion describes a PMS frame. I must caution that only
lab tests can determine AFB for sure but once the beekeeper is familiar with
the clues and makes a careful examination of the frame you can be fairly
sure of the diagnosis. The frames we were looking through in this situation
amounts to between 250 & 300 frames. The big problem I had with the problem
was the first beekeeper had culled the frames from the original deadouts
into boxes so the frames from the different deadouts were all mixed
together. Each frame had to be evaluated on its own merit making the process
very slow. Looking for AFB scale in a dark brood comb is about like checking
each cell for a egg. All three long time beekeepers agree which have
examined these frames we are looking at AFB. Our question is:
1. Are the hygienic bees removing all but the most stubborn scale?
2. Is the amount of scale low because we are seeing the Terramycin resistant
strain?
3. Why are we not finding the ropy stage if these hives died over the last
winter. Are the hygienic bees removing the ropy stage?   Is this really a
good thing or is this spreading the disease even faster than in the old days
when the bees simply quit using the AFB brood frame. In the *old days* the
beekeeper would have to eventually notice the AFB problem as the number of
frames the bees were ignoring built up. If what we are looking at IS the
work of hygienic bees then the problem is becoming harder to detect until
the final stages (in my opinion).
Bob
Ps. Keep in mind the two policies used by the majority of  beekeepers for
AFB are
1. cull & burn
2. treat with antibiotics and prevent the active disease leaving the spores.
This option with Terramycin is fast disappearing. Hopefully a new antibiotic
will be registered for AFB use in the U.S. before the smoke from burning AFB
hives will be seen for miles.