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Subject:
From:
Joyce Maier <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:37:34 +0200
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John Cambre, in response to Edson Tadeu Ortolan, wrote:

>>Another question to increase the discussion: wasn't Beethoven an
>>african-dutch descendent?
>
>I attended a lecture once, long ago, given by the popular classical
>music program host Karl Haas, who said that the "Van" in Beethoven's name
>signified, in the part of Germany he came from, the middle or merchant
>class, as opposed to the aristocratic "Von".

No, that's not correct, or, rather, incomplete.  Beethoven's "van" is a
true Dutch/Flemish "van" and it says nothing, absolutely nothing about the
class.  The same is the case with the Dutch prefix "de".  One can find all
classes among Dutch and Flemish people with names with "de" or "van" or
"van de" or "van der" or the like.  It is, of course, possible that people
of noble birth have a name with such a prefix.  The Dutch statesman Van
Limburg Stirum is an example.  He surely was of noble birth.  BTW, the
surname of a Dutch who has such a prefix is the name together with the
prefix and if the name is written down without the Christian name it must
be written with a capital.  So to Dutch/Flemish standards Beethoven's
surname was not "Beethoven", but "Van Beethoven." However, written down
together with his Christian name it should be spelled "Ludwig van
Beethoven." In contrast to the German "von" it says nothing about the
class and therefore it is seen as a part of the name itself.

Greetings,
Joyce Maier
www.ademu.com/Beethoven

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