Hello All,
Aaron wrote:
 It is possibly (probable?) that restocking with bees that have been
 artificially kept alive with chemical treatments is contrary to a goal of
 breeding varroa tolerant bees.
If you are not trying to raise/ breed for varroa tolerant bees it makes no
difference.  If a strain is found with true varroa tolerance most of us will
raise queens from the strain and within a season all our bees will be of the
strain.
If the Russian line had worked out a large part of my bees would be of the
Russian line even though I am NOT a fan of carniolans
Step one of finding varroa tolerant bees is to set aside hives and do no
treatments. I find these hives by doing sticky board tests.
Step two you raise queens from these hives. This step I have never got to as
all have died but one which died in late spring of the next spring. If I
didn't have such cold winters maybe my results would have been better.
As I said before in a Bee-L post I have got a beekeeping friend which asked
*Grandpa * when varroa first came what to do. *Grandpa* said let varroa kill
all but the varroa tolerant colonies and raise queens from the survivors. My
friend lives in Michigan. He dropped from 2000 hives to less than 200 in
1992-1993 before he gave up on *Grandpas* theory. In 1994 at the ABF
convention in Orlando, Florida he  was buying packages to get back in
business.  Putting bees back in deadouts cost serious money.
I agree with Jack of the HIP project that the search should continue but I
and many other beekeepers are skeptical now that a true varroa tolerant bee
will be found. I had to hold back on a previous post about his survivors
doing so well. I need to see the proof before I am convenced. Send a few
queens to Jack at HIP for the two year test under rigid controls.
Clay wrote:
 Aaron I think you just hit the nail on the head! If one uses chemicals to
 produce resistant/ tolerant bees( bees that survive inspite of varroa) you
 are painting a false picture and deceiving yourself. Varroa isn't going
 away! Apistan and Checkmite will be at there end of usefulness soon, then
 what?
You are right about Apistan & Checkmite but the beekeeping industry is to
large to be without a chemical treatment. *Apicure*  (fromic acid gel)
should be back on the market before we are in dire straits but the varroa
control (in my opinion) will NEVER be on the level Apistan & Checkmite were
(98%).
Clay wrote:
Will breeding alone be enough to control the problem?

As Jack of HIP has said *just saying your bees are varroa tolerant is not
enough*. Prove through the two year program or produce positive proof your
queens are what you say they are and we will all switch.  If the trait
(varroa tolerance) IS passed on to the future queens then *Bingo* we have a
solution. If not you keep looking as Jack says. Jack reports NO solution
yet.
Many beekeepers trying the Russian queens ARE using chemical controls also.
They say they will remove the treatment at a later date.  They say they need
to get the line started before pulling the chemicals. Still adds for Russian
queens make claims not backed up yet by proof.
Sincerely,
Bob Harrison
Odessa, Missouri