Jocelyn Wang on the warpath replies to Satoshi Akima:

>Not at all.  Since the entire process of atonal composition is inconducive
>to producing anything resembling beauty, it does not take a leap to dislike
>every last one of them.

Gee, what about the people who find at least some atonal works beautiful?

>>If you can listen to late Mahler, Bartok, Strauss, and late Shostakovitch
>>(especially the late string quartets) then it really shouldn't present
>>much problem to you.
>
>This is a bit like saying, "If you like orange juice, then gulping down
>this nice glass of sulfuric acid really shouldn't present much problem
>to you." It's the old atonalists' mantra: Hardly anyone likes what you
>want them to like, so that means they haven't heard enough of it, are
>closed-minded toward it, etc.  SNORE!

Well, you *are* close-minded toward it.  You condemn it all, without having
heard it all.  You condemn "the entire process," whatever that may mean,
without any real argument.  You seem to assume - God knows what - that
people who claim to like it are 1) lying, 2) ignorant of True Beauty, 3)
trying to force others to like it, 4) trying to win the approval of an
elitist cabal against True Art, 5) saying so only because they want to be
thought smarter than everybody else, 6) incapable of liking other modern
music.

As to 1), I can't argue with you, if you really believe it.  This is
poisoning the well to preclude any discussion that will go anywhere.

2) Very possibly.  I don't know what True Beauty is.  I know only what I
like and dislike and why.

3) The only reason I care is that if more people liked it, the bigger
chance I'd have of hearing more of it - a basic matter of supply and
demand.  This is, incidentally, the same reason why I'd care that more
people liked Poulenc, Mussorgsky, Nielsen, Vaughan Williams, etc.

4) See 3).

5) Trying to discover how much smarter one is than everyone else is an
incredible waste of time.  If you're truly smart, you occupy yourself more
fruitfully.

6) I hate to generalize, but my experience tells me that those who like
"atonal" music tend to like other modern music (indeed, music from most
eras) as well.  There are exceptions, and I've met them personally.  On the
other hand, most of the dogmatists I've met on this list are on the other
side of the question, at least initially.

Again, there are all sorts of reasons - including historical ones - why one
shouldn't treat "atonal" music as a special case.  I've never met anyone
who likes all music.  "Atonal" music seems no different in this regard.
Some people like the music; others don't.

Steve Schwartz