Pablo Massa wrote:

>... Schoenberg's op. 19 pieces, for example are atonal, but at the
>fourth piece I find traces of a IV (minor) I cadence. Something similar
>occurs at "Farben" (from Schoenberg's op. 16). That's a very far
>resemblance of traditional harmony, but it exists. Dodecaphonic compsitions
>are different: the dodecaphonic technique forbides any association which
>resembles traditional chords (however, Berg used this technique in a very
>special way, which sometimes gives to their compositions a sort of tonal
>taste. His Violin Concerto is a good example of this).

Actually there are several rows that very clearly have tonal implications,
generally the method is to suggest two keys a tritone distant from each
other. Stravinski was also interested in such rows, as was Copland - and
Milton Babbit has written at least one piece based on such a row. Avoiding
"triads and simple dissonances" was a stylistic imperative which Scheonberg
wanted in addition to the necessities of the method of 12 tones - but
nothing in the rules of row formation actually *forbid* tonality. The do
require a very extended tonality, because of the requirement of the
hexachord and the requirement of using all 12 notes.

Whether there is a sharp line between tonal and atonal depends, largely,
on which definition you employ. Schenkeran analysis can usually demark
pieces quite clearly - but clearly is not the same as correctly. In the
strictest sense a piece is only tonal if the work is an expansion or
extension of a tonal progression. That is *everything* must be related to
the tonal cadence. However, as was pointed out by several people, including
Schoenberg, if you stick a tonal cadence at the end of everything, people
will impose a tonality on it, thinking of as decorative dissonance every
note which is not in the tonal progression. Schoenberg thought of this as
a negative, where as Milhaud thought of it as a positive.

It also means that if one uses largely triads and simple dissonances, that
peopel will think of the work as "tonal" even if there is no functional
cadence in it, nor any fuctional harmony. Many minimalist pieces are
"atonal" in the sense that they have no tonal center, nor central cadence,
nor set of key relationships - and yet are thought of as "tonal" because
their surface consists of tonal material.

What this gets back to is that tonality is an effect which must be brought
out by the performers. One can can go looking for tonality in a piece, and
play it that way, even if it is not really there, even if there are loose
hanging details that cannot be explained tonally. One can also not see the
tonality in a work, and hence leave listeners with the impression of a
circus of chromatic chords...

Stirling Newberry <[log in to unmask]>