ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
*****************************************************************************

Hi all,
Yes, Matthew, that it how I was using the term.  I think you have done a 
nice job in distilling the various strands of conversation that this has 
spawned.  My query has to do with the difference in skills required. 

You open another related strand which I think will be of interest to my 
colleagues in the Grad School of Education - there are times when I have 
said that if a potential museum educator has incredible 
personality/people/facilitating skills (note I did not say teaching, as 
we are informal educators!), I can teach them the content.  There have 
been other times when I would sell my soul for someone who knew there 
way around a lab.  I will say that I have found it harder to teach the 
interpersonal skills.

Perhaps the reason for the crossover seen so often in the science museum 
field is that it is a more difficult set of topics to handle.  
Discussing how the world works can be daunting.  Incidentally, one of 
the challenges in the history world is how to tie up all the various 
pieces of the puzzle, eg, social, economic, gender, etc.

Beryl

Matthew White wrote:
> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related 
> institutions.
> ***************************************************************************** 
>
>
> I find this conversation interesting and I hope it continues. Reading 
> the messages all in one sitting, some things strike me.
>
> 1. I am not sure we are all using the word or concept "certification" 
> in the same way. Beryl originally meant it (and please correct me if I 
> am wrong) it to mean an academic award received after completing a 
> series of courses or demonstrating proficiency in an area. Many 
> universities have a museum studies certificate program. You major in 
> an a traditional area such as history, biology, art etc and you take 
> additional coursework to get a museum certificate. It is an addition 
> or a focussing of the graduate degree, but there is no MA program in 
> Museum Studies as a stand alone subject area. To answer Charlie's 
> questions about what is provided, typically certification programs 
> provide skills or practical experience to augment a more academic 
> program of study for fields that need both. You do all the work for 
> the traditional degree, but then get skills in museum studies, 
> archival work, accounting, etc etc.
>
>  This is completely different than what they do across that street at 
> the School of Education when they talk of certification. When one 
> receives a teacher certification, this is, for all intents and 
> purposes a license to teach. This is typically awarded by the state 
> here in America, not the university. (although there are various 
> agreements in various states where getting one almost automatically 
> gets you the other, minus any qualifying exams, background checks etc.)
>
> I support Beryl's use of the concept of certificate (assuming I am 
> right) but am totally against museums or science centers being 
> required to certify their staff through some sort of licensing 
> bureaucracy.
>
> 2. I think it is curious that what started as a question about 
> baseline skills and knowledge for an informal educator became a 
> discussion of what makes a good classroom teacher. While there are 
> similarities and many people go from one to the other, they are 
> ultimately different careers. I find the confusing of the two more 
> prevalent in science than in other subjects.  Most people I know in 
> the history museum field see themselves as distinctly museum educators 
> and very few people move between the two. Why this is would be another 
> excellent discussion, but you don't see it in other fields.
>
> Have a good day,
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2007, at 8:51 PM, David Smith wrote:
>
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology 
>> Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related 
>> institutions.
>> ***************************************************************************** 
>>
>>
>> On 10/15/07, Reagan Cole <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology 
>>> Centers
>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> ***************************************************************************** 
>>>
>>>
>>> In education, classroom discipline is the most important thing next 
>>> to a
>>> thorough understanding of child psychology.
>>> The books contain more science, math and history than anyone would ever
>>> need in the real world.  If you can stay a page or two ahead you'll 
>>> know
>>> exactly as much as you need and no more.  It is very important not 
>>> to know
>>> too much or give the appearance knowing too much.  Scientists are 
>>> not very
>>> good classroom teachers most of the time.
>>>
>>
>>
>> While a chaotic classroom certainly impedes learning, a 
>> well-disciplined one
>> does not guarantee it.  I have seen repeated instances of 
>> highly-disciplined
>> orderly schools where there was very little learning going on.  
>> Effective
>> classroom management (which is different from discipline) often comes
>> hand-in-hand with effective teaching strategies - students who are 
>> engaged
>> and excited are less likely to act out.
>>
>> Teachers of any subject need three critical pieces: they need a thorough
>> knowledge of the cognitive and intellectual structure of their 
>> discipline -
>> the big ideas, the overarching concepts, and the connections to other
>> disciplines - and of interventions that will effectively advance student
>> understanding of those structures, they need effective formative 
>> assessment
>> strategies to be able to diagnose the knowledge of each student in their
>> class, and they need time to work together as professionals to share
>> effective strategies and collaborate to solve instructional 
>> dilemmas.  None
>> of that comes from a textbook.  What I find in textbooks are errors,
>> oversimplifications, and stultifying problem sets.  It doesn't matter 
>> if you
>> are two pages ahead or a hundred pages ahead if the pages are devoid of
>> meaning or connection.
>>
>> "Teachers of science plan an inquiry-based science program for their
>> students"  That's Teaching Standard A from the National Science 
>> Education
>> Standards.  It was best practice 10 years ago and there is only more
>> evidence of its effectiveness as time goes by.  Begin with a question 
>> and
>> draw learning out of evidence.  In order to do that, you'll need to stop
>> speaking what's in the book and start listening to what's in your 
>> students.
>> This is true whether you are in a formal or informal setting (I don't 
>> think
>> there's any real distinction - good teaching is good teaching, including
>> displaying sensitivity to context).
>>
>> Dave Smith
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> David L. Smith
>> Da Vinci Science Center
>> Allentown, PA
>> http://www.davinci-center.org
>>
>> ***********************************************************************
>> For information about the Association of Science-Technology Centers 
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>>
>> Check out the latest case studies and reviews on ExhibitFiles at 
>> www.exhibitfiles.org.
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> ***********************************************************************
> For information about the Association of Science-Technology Centers 
> and the Informal Science Education Network please visit www.astc.org.
>
> Check out the latest case studies and reviews on ExhibitFiles at 
> www.exhibitfiles.org.
>
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