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I asked the earlier question because of the posted article, which seemed to
suggest that ID proponents believed that evolution was teaching that cells
couldn't have "evolved" from chemicals, which to me was not really attacking
Darwinian Evolution...but nor was it providing any scientific theory. It
reminded me of discussions about the Anthropic principle of the universe's
beginnings...something I learned in a philosophy class.
Now..to correct a hidden assumption...I don't believe my biology teacher did
teach the primordial soup theory...I believe I learned that later...my
biology teacher thought that life was created by God or something else
because we've never achieved life from nothingness (or as he said: no matter
what you do to that rock, it won't be alive).
-William Katzman
-----Original Message-----
From: Amanda Chesworth [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 2:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: evo/cre - worst case scenario
Like Martin wrote, evolution is simply "biological change through time" - as
a theory it doesn't include how life ultimately began (nor how it will
finish.) I think your teacher was right to discuss the primordial soup idea
(and the experiments of this) but to qualify it as a hypothesis and/or an
opinion. Because this idea takes into account the "past is the key to the
present" idea of James Hutton and also uses what we know about subjects like
chemistry, planetary development, star evolution, etc., even it, I think,
has far better grounding in science than creationism. But I do agree that is
isn't a part of evolution and it hasn't warranted the title of scientific
theory. I was told that terms like "origin science" and
"microevolution/macroevolution" originated with the creationists and are now
actually used quite often by others - including scientists.
I just read a letter from someone commenting on the evo/cre issue and he
misunderstood that evolution isn't about the origin of life - it is about
the development of life on earth. It seemed his argument rested solely with
his belief that evolution was trying to explain the origin of life. This,
and a handful of other common misunderstandings, are, I think, largely to
blame for why the public is so "against" evolution. The key is to figure out
what to do to address this misinformation. In many respects we can see this
is a failing of science education and try to come up with ways of better
educating the public. Of course, this is what we're all about.. what we're
always striving to do... it's just important we keep entertaining fresh
ideas in this respect.
I think creationism is suitable for a "philosophy of life" or a "comparative
religions" class... maybe even some sort of course that explores how we
define reality, knowledge... or ways of knowing. I don't think scientists
are the ones to look to for this teaching though.. they may be guest
speakers but I think a more interdisciplinary approach would be needed ..
even to the extent where the main instructor simply "creates" the class and
puts all bias aside - he or she then invites speakers from each discipline
or worldview being discussed. That would be a cool class. I'd have taken it.
And.. it always reminds me of the exhibit that the Ontario Science Center
had about a decade ago.. on "Truth." I've been trying to find that exhibit
ever since but no luck as yet.
Amanda
***
Amanda Chesworth, Educational Director
Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal
www.csicop.org Inquiring Minds Program www.inquiringminds.org Skeptical
Inquirer Magazine www.skepticalinquirer.org Skeptiseum www.skeptiseum.org
Skeptic's Toolbox www.skepticstoolbox.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Katzman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: evo/cre - worst case scenario
> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
institutions.
>
****************************************************************************
*
>
> I've got a couple of questions for everyone out there...
>
> 1) Do you believe that Darwinian Evolution teaches that life itself
evolved
> out of proteins (DNA & RNA are random sets of molecular structures that
> eventually came about...), or that it teaches simply that once life was
> established, it evolved?
>
> 2) Do you think biology teachers in public schools even teach the "origins
> of life"? Mine certainly didn't. When asked, he would offer an opinion -
> which he qualified as an OPINION. As for evolution, yes that was taught
as
> the way life "advanced" (it was also taught poorly, but that's besides the
> point).
>
> To me, ID is fine as a philosophical construct. Much like arguing why the
> universe is so ordered. There are multiple philosophical theories on
that.
> However, by and large SCIENCE stays away from that (I know of one
scientist
> published in Scientific American who says there are implications where it
is
> testable, but I have nto seen an elaboration on that).
>
> Perhaps scientists should not be outraged by ID, but rather state the
> obvious: it is an interesting philosophical idea, that deserves to be
> taught once we start teaching philosophy. Now whether or not we should
> teach philosophy should be left up to the individual school systems (right
> now it is occasionally an elective course in high schools, and to the best
> of my knowledge it is never mandated).
>
>
> -William Katzman [log in to unmask]
> Director of Exhibits (828) 322-8169 x307
> Catawba Science Center (828) 322-1585 (fax)
> "Try not to become a man of success, but rather to become a man of value"
> -A. Einstein
>
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