Cathy, I hope I recalled the phrase correctly. I think that's what I remember being told too. You gave a great answer to Jessica. You're so right on. And so diplomatically put. I, too, remember many such frustrations, and my decision to find a way to go around the influence of the poorly informed docs by going straight to the client with solid information and empowering them (and their families) directly. Jessica, you wrote " how do I go about changing his mind?" After many such experiences, I have found that it's important to pick your battles. There is only so much time and energy. "A man (or woman or child) convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." There is a subtle difference between influence and control. However passionate you feel about breastfeeding, it is important not to respond in a codependent manner, trying to control the situation by seeing yourself as a savior, your clients as victims and the OB as the perpetrator of harm. The only person in life over whom we have any real degree of real control is our own self. Such examples so easily hook our own "inner child" into transferrences resembling plain old sibling rivalry or issues with our own "mean" parents and authority figures of the past. I have heard it suggested that at least some men choose to go into OB-GYN because of a submerged deep dislike for women. There's a name for it which escapes me at the moment - perhaps misogyny? The physicians whom you describe seem to have far more and far deeper problems with relationships and control than you can imagine. What you see is only the tip of the iceberg! Remember the Titanic! Jean ------------------------------- K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC Dayton, Ohio, USA ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html