Unfortunately many still do not want to think that Jesus was breastfed. Yes
jesus was poor. i do believe breastfed. Unfortunately the madonnas for
christmas decorations do come with a separate baby. However, years agor
after my youngest- a daughter_ our rural church had a live nativity scene.
There were real people, animals, hay and all. for quite a while on that cold
december night my daugther and sat as Mary and Jesus. yes she breastfed
several times and slept in my arms, and for a while in the hay. There were
many complements on how real it looked. They thought for a while my baby
was a doll. they were impressed when they found out the infant was real.
For now it makes a good memory.
Mechell Turner
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 5:06 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 13 Jul 1999 - Special issue (#1999-133)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:52:57 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joy Holtz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dioxins--what do we tell our clients?
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I followed the recent dioxin discussion with much interest as I have
been researching the topic for the past few months. I found this post by
Dr. Jack Newman in the LACTNET archives and I repost it here with his
permission. It's the best response I have read or heard to the
suggestion that breastmilk might be unsafe due to its possible
pollutants. I think it's important that we take the time to familiarize
ourselves with facts about the dioxin issue because sadly, it seems to
be an important, pervasive issue of the times.
Joy Holtz, R.N.
Wilmington, NC
>The amount of dioxin in the milk is rarely if ever a real cause for
concern. The real concern is all the pollutants the baby will get
while in utero.
>Whoever is encouraging women on Indian Reserves to feed their babies
artificially should be ashamed of themselves. Like, maybe this is a
stoopid question, but where are the mothers going to get the water to
make up that ultra pure formula, huh? You mean from that river which
is polluted with dioxins which makes the fish polluted too? Like, are
we not concerned about the pollutants in formula--like high levels of
lead, aluminum and manganese? And pesticides? You mean the cows are
grazing on organically grown hay? Sure they are. You mean they are
not spraying pesticides all over the soy beans? No of course not.
Gee, why formula is always okay no matter how much evidence there is
of its risks? It may not be true in the richest country in the world,
but here in Canada, many Indians are living in conditions which
approximate third world, and no amount of blather about how little
value there is in breastfeeding in affluent societies applies.
>If this woman wants to do the best for her baby, she should
breastfeed. And what information will you get from dioxin levels in
her blood? Does that tell you about the risk of diabetes for the
child (very high in Native Americans?). Does that tell you about the
risk of infection with formula and the lack of antibodies, white
cells, interferon, lactoferrin, lysozyme, mucins etc etc (because that
is the big deal with dioxins, isn't it?--interfere with the immune
system). Does that tell you about the decreased risk of certain
cancers with breastfeeding (because that's what the whole shtick about
dioxins is, isn't it--increased risk of cancer). Well, why is it that
breastfed babies, dioxins and all, still have a lower incidence of
lymphoma than artificially fed babies.
>Boy, am I ticked off. Nothing personal Ms. McGinnis, I know you were
asking an honest question, but when I heard that the mothers on the
reserve were being advised to feed artificially, I lit up.
>Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:05:39 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joy Holtz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Olive Oil
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If would always suggest using olive oil over salad oil. Olive oil is one
of the few oils that's likely to be cold-pressed and extracted without
the use of chemicals.
For what it's worth, I use olive oil on my daughter's bottom when she
develops a case of diaper rash and it clears right up. I couldn't find
anything in the medical literature that would explain this though.
Joy Holtz, R.N.
Wilmington, NC
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:04:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: Nativity Scene
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My favourite Nativity Scene was when my co-Leader was asked to be Mary in
her church's live nativity scene, with her baby Liam as the baby Jesus. The
rest of her family also had roles in the scene. Everyone was charmed when
she nursed the baby, but a few were surprised when, a bit later, one of the
angels (her two-year-old Claire) leaned over and asked "Can I nurse now?"
Teresa Pitman
Oakville, Ontario
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:15:36 -0400
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From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Real" soccer moms & Toys'R'Us
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On the heels of the awesome victory by the USA Women's Soccer Team in
the World Cup (yes, I *am* a graduate of the University of NC at
Chapel Hill, where about 75% of the team players are from :) ),
thought I'd pass along this very nice mention of breastfeeding:
In _Sports Illustrated_'s recent issue on the team, they noted very
matter-of-factly that the two mothers on the team breastfed their
babies, even keeping the babies on the sidelines during breaks in
games or practice. The article went on to add that the player/ moms
travelled with the babies (as opposed to leaving them at home with
nanny). I thought this was great in a magazine aimed primarily
towards men and usually devoid of mention of the parenthood side of
professional athletes.
On a negative note, I was at a Toys'R'Us in Fayetteville, NC, this
weekend and was confronted by a "Baby Registry" table at the entrace
to the store. Stacked on the table were a pile of wrapped presents,
and directly at eye level, at the top of the stack as though it was
the penultimate prize for new parents, was... you guessed it... a
see-through "bunny bag" with several cans of Similac formula in it. I
filed a complaint at the store & wrote the headquarters-- thought some
of you might like to keep an eye out & write as well.
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:15:19 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Mangers and sundries
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"Twas said,
<< The reason we see the nativity with Jesus in a manger is biblically
based, "This will be a sign for you: you will find a child wrapped in bands
of cloth and lying in a manger." I'd think a cave/stable with animals in it
would be quite warm, due to the animals' body heat.
>>
Very true. If you read the King James version of the Bible (translated for
the common man by decree of King James in 1611 or thereabouts) you will see
that it says , "And the shepherds made haste and came to Bethlehem where they
found Mary, Joseph, and the baby lying in a manger." Quite clear to me that
all three of them were in the family manger. WHen you think about it, who
would have bothered to make those little tiny mangers you see in the nativity
scenes? Sure, they fit into those little tiny stables, but goodness sake --
you think Mary had her hands up in the air then entire time? (Mine does --
but if you manipulate the baby Jesus just right, she can hold him in her arms
-- which is where he stays the entire Christmas season.) Those little
mangers could hold enough to feed about one lamb. Maybe. No one was going
to waste time making those things. Remember, that this was the stable for
the Inn where they were going to stay, so lots and lots of animals from all
the people in Bethlehem that were going there for the census would have been
there. They would have been feeding donkeys and goats, and cows and sheep,
and ??horses and goodness knows what else. Betcha they had BIG mangers --
and do you think Mary gave birth on the dirty old floor? Nah -- I'm sure
Joseph, who probably had the Innkeepers wife and perhaps the local midwife
there, set about making a lovely sweet bed of hay for Mary in the BIG manger
so she could birth there. So your mental picture should be one of Mary lying
on a nice clean bed of hay, nursing Jesus, while Joseph stood by her, feeding
her vegemite sandwiches (to increase milk supply), french bread with olive
oil & parmesan cheese, and some wine.
Ok, I'm kidding about the french bread and parmesan cheese.
Jan Barger, who has given this lots of thought.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:25:10 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vegetarian Times Magazine
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Vegetarian Times magazine has had 2 articles in the past year about the positive health benefits of breastfeeding. The most recent issue--July--begins with a great list of health benefits to baby, then goes on to talk about oxytocin and its positive effect on the breastfeeding mother, based on a study. Mentioned were lower stress and blood pressure levels and more positive moods and better interpersonal skills.
There is a lovely accompanying photograph of a mother and baby "engaged" in pleasant interaction.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:30:39 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: ChaniRhiGlenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: contaminants in breast milk
while everyone is worrying about the contaminants that have shown up in this
study in breastmilk, aren't they also wondering how this compares to the
contaminants in amount and type that are in other animal or vegetable milks
and/or formula?
seems to me there have been discussions in the past on similar veins.....
chanita
(in an astonishingly hot San Francisco)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:53:05 -0700
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From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: contaminents in breastmilk study
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Geez, you folks in the UK got a much better presentation of this research
in the news than what I heard on my local TV health segment. The reporter
mentioned how breastmilk had been found to contain over 40 times the
recommended levels of contaminents and how some of these were suspected of
causing cancer and weakening the immune system. Duh, like doesn't formula
do the same thing, but there's no breaking news on that matter. The
reporter then adds at the end that breastmilk is still best and mums
shouldn't not breastfeed because of this. Why does that statement always
get slotted in the end?
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
Canada
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:27:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: oil
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If mom has oil in home and uses it in cooking, I wouldn't figure that she
would react to it, used topically. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:41:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "fluid" intake
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CORRECT. We KNOW that formula reps are NOT a good source of breastfeeding
information. ;-)
I always say listen to your body
> and drink to thirst.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:13:59 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jesus in a manger
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Bottle-feeding Mary! What nonsense! While I truly admire all the Biblical
scholars, I think the common error with many nativities is in the size of
the manger. As a child, I knew my horse's manger to be big enough for Mary,
Jesus, and maybe a real cuddly Joseph. One of our big dogs actually birthed
her puppies there. The tiny little contraptions shown in most creches are
ventilated, so couldn't hold grain. If they held hay, it wouldn't be enough
to feed a skinny goat. In other words, what we usually see spotlighted on
our neighbor's lawn cannot be a manger! I would vote for hay as the
cleanest stuff in a stable. That would make the manger sensible.
Fix the visual with a halo around Mama, Jesus, and earthly Papa, warm and
comfy together in a nest of sweet-smelling hay, while the animals adored and
nibbled at the edges. A FAMILY manger.
Pam Easterday LLLL [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:15:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mangers and sundries
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Can't resist - This is from a devoted nativity collector (part of my
mother/baby fixation)
-
You do know what would have happened if it had been Three Wise Women
[probably Lactnuts] instead of Three Wise Men, don't you? They would have
asked for directions, arrived on time, helped deliver the baby, cleaned the
stable, made a casserole and brought practical gifts! I'm also sure the
Wise Women helped her learn how to BF :-) 3
One of my hand stitched and hand made nativity sets has a little basket of
muslin cloths for swaddling clothes. Another pix I did a few years ago had
Mary holding a grinning baby. I changed it by french knotting in a bunch
of curls so you see the back of His head - he was in a perfect nursing
position! One of my favorites is a scene of figures from Abbey Press in
terracotta, Mary is holding baby in her lap.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:35:14 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HIV
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Carol:
this is all well and good but look what happened in Oregon...
Patricia
<< "nobody can make a
mother not breastfeed, they can only provide information to her and she
decides."
>>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:55:36 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: History Lesson
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Judith,
Thanks for the History Lesson. It was really great! I can not see any
reason anyone would take any offense.
WOW!
Laura Wright
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:18:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine Website
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The Academy of Breastfeeding Website is brand new this week, and still under
construction. www.bfmed.org
Nancy Wight MD, FAAP, IBCLC
Borad Member
Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:33:36 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Denny Rice, RN IBCLC, Dallas TX" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: fluid intake amounts
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Oh great, have I been messing up all this time? Because I work only
with mothers of multiples, volume of fluid intake comes up frequently.
The moms are amazed to discover how much they are actually drinking vs
how much they think they are (most of the time, they believe they are
consuming twice as much as they are!). I routinely use the 3 oz of
bm/lb/baby to determine how much fluid the twins/triplets ingest each 24
hours (infants > 3 months). To this I add 64 oz for mom herself.
Commonly, the "recommended" volume intake is >120 ounces. Please let me
know if you know of any studies that have been done on this.
--
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
Dallas Texas USA
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:36:19 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vegetarian Mom with Premie Triplets
Here's a pretty good success story:
We have a couple who had triplets a year after having their first baby.
She's gonna be BUSY! They were 29 weeks gestational age. All went through
the major ICU experience which included chest tubes, high frequency
ventilators, PDA ligations, vasopressors, etc. etc.
Anyway, they are now 37 weeks gest age (8 weeks old) Mom is a strict
vegetarian (utilizes NO animal protein whatsoever) She is very careful
about her diet. However, the babies weren't gaining particularly well with
fortified breast milk, so we had her separate her milk into foremilk and
hind milk and have used only the fortified hind milk for any gavage
feedings. They began to gain steadily.
Today, all three babies are breastfeeding on the "Request" part of our
feeding progression protocol with gavage tubes in place. We gavage when the
mother cannot be here to breast feed, and Dad is giving them one bottle a
day. Mom has a milk supply which is keeping up with all three.
So far, so good. The first will go home this weekend . All are healthy and
have no residual problems from their prematurity. Hallelujah!!
Deanne
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:23:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Steve Salop and Judith Gelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Family manger
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Not being a farm girl, I never thought about manger size. Thank you to
one and all for the education--I can't wait to spring the concept of
"family manger" on my husband!
I certainly would like to think that the founders of all the great
religions ( Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Joseph Smith) were
all breastfed-- and that the love they received at home helped prepare
them for the spiritual life and leadership they gave the world. Maybe
drop in the breastfeeding rate is why we haven't had much positive
religious development in the past hundred years...
Warmly,
Judy Gelman
Washington, DC
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:55:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Steve Salop and Judith Gelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Oxytocin
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Dear Wise Women--
I recently had someone ask me a question I couldn't answer. What does
oxytocin do in men's bodies? The questioner and I both assume that they
make it (or at least that they can) since it is a pituitary hormone.
(Are we right? I know men make less prolactin, but they still make it.
Is oxytocin the same?) Do men release it in response to nipple
stimulation? Is it released during male orgasm? If so, does it affect
male bonding as it does with women? If not, why not?
I couldn't find anything about men and oxytocin in any of my resources.
I hope one of you will help me out--the questioner is my 15 year old
daughter, so my reputation as an "expert" is at stake!
Awaiting your thoughts and insight---
Judy Gelman, IBCLC
Washigton, DC
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:24:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pre BC feeding
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Was that interesting information! Thanks, Judy!
And I always got a laugh when I said to the moms in Puerto Rico - "what d=
o
you think happened when Joseph and Mary had to flee Nazareth - did Mary s=
ay
- Joseph, grab the cow - we have to go!"
Things are never as simple as they seem. I really learned a lot from my
roommates from Zambia who were at the LLLI Convention - they have to cope=
with so many beliefs around breastfeeding. They may seem strange, (ex: t=
he
colostrum is actually the man's semen, and should not be given to the bab=
y
until the milk is white...) but are they any stranger than the stories we=
hear every day from moms who hear "don't feed the baby too often, it'll
need to get used to eating on a regular schedule" , "don't let the baby
rule your life" and "don't spoil the baby"?
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, IBCLC, LLLL
Vacaville, CA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:26:13 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: lisa mooney RN <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 11 Jul 1999 to 12 Jul 1999 - Special issue
(#199...
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Dear Lactnetters, in response to the several cases of "fibrocystic" breast
changes we have seen over the past few weeks, here are a few suggestions from
Dr. Christiane Northrup's book, Women's Bodies , Women's Wisdom. Obviously
first consult a MD to r/o cancerous changes. Minimize estrogen's effect,
which obviously during pregnancy is no easy task. Lower refined carbs and
fats from diet, the cruciferous veggies cabbage, broccoli, kale, brussel
sprouts and turnips are high in indole-3-carbinol which have been shown to
decrease estrogen's ability to bind to breast tissue.Increase soluble fiber
which aids in the body's ability to secrete excess estrogen. Eliminate dairy
products, eliminate caffeine. Progesterone, for the non-pregnant and
non-lactating women has been shown to down regulate estrogen receptors after
a week or two of therapy. But this would not be an option for this patient.
Supplements of Evening Primose Oil and gamma linoleic acid help stem
inflammation resulting from excess levels of eicosanoids. I am uncertain of
the safety for pregnancy and lactation. Does anyone know of a good reference
for herbal remedies and supps /safety during preg/lact ? Vitamin E, A and
selenium also seem to be helpful. Castor Oil packs 3x a day. " Breast
symtpoms are often the body's way of getting us to nurture ourselves more
fully and allow others to help." Interestingly enough my mom is menopausal
and noted enlarged milk ducts on her mammogram many months ago. She was very
upset about this and her risk of cancer. During this time her and I were
having discussions about her decision not to breastfeed me and her loss of
control, her doctor denied her the choice to have a natural childbirth. As I
am an only child, and developing my abilities as a Lactation Specialist, I
think she was re- hashing some issues related to my birth and early
nurturing. We have since resolved these issues and her enlarged milk ducts
have disappeared on repeat mammogram. Hope this helps, Lisa Mooney RN, BSN ,
CLE
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:19:00 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: lisa mooney RN <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 13 Jul 1999 - Special issue (#1999-134)
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Dear Lactnetters, Wondering if anyone saw the article in the San Diego Union
Tribune from a week ago entitled , "Protein in Mother's Milk may yield key to
cancer cure". Very exciting news. Seems a phsysician and immunologist at
Lund University in Sweden has discovered that by mixing breast milk with
cancer cells , the cancer cells are compelled to die, "every type of cancer
cell". They orginally were using mother's milk to kill off bacteria and
inadverently observed the death of the cancer cells. They were originally
trying to pinpoint how the milk blocks the bacteria from infecting other
cells. Alpha-lactalbumin appears to be the pin pointed substance responsible
for keeping at bay the uncontrolled growth of cancer cells. This protein is
bathed in acid and another mystery substance that is part of the milk
increases killer cell activity. They are not naming the mystery substance
publicly, as of yet.The research team has named this genetically generated
substance HAMLET, Human Alpha-Lactalbumin Made LEthal to Tumor Cells. They
are conducting animal tests at this time. Be interesting to see how clinical
trials turn out. Especially since the infant host has a naturally more acid
environment than the formula fed infant. Isn't Mother Nature grand? As for
the Dioxin, what is not to understand. We live in a paradise that we are
turning into a toxic waste dump, breastmilk or formula or cow's milk for that
matter, everything we breathe , eat and drink is contaminated. Until we as a
people begin to value balancing commitment to authenticity to our
evolutionary needs versus our over active left sided hemisphere , we will
continue to destroy this precious paradise we live in. Side note on the HIV ,
in the July/Aug 1999 issue of Mothering there is an excellent editorial
written by an amazing HIV positive women in response to the question of
Breastfeeding safety, she by the way is pictured breastfeeding her 18 month
old, healthy son. She is as well versed as any physician on the HIV and AIDs
epidemic in pregnant women and she has written a book entitled, " What if
everything you knew about AIDs was wrong? " Her name is Christine Maggiore.
Lisa Mooney, RN, BSN, CLE
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:07:16 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Virginia G Thorley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastmilk and pollutants
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On this issue, one point never seems to come up for mention. I learnt =
it in the 1970s from the (then) national publicity officer for NMAA, =
here in Australia. At the time radioactivity was being detected in =
breastmilk on the Atherton Tableland (north Queensland) after the French =
nuclear tests in the Pacific.
Why is breastmilk tested? Well, think what the alternative would =
be, if levels of chemicals in *body fat* are to be ascertained. How =
much simpler to take some samples of breastmilk - than to take a biopsy =
from fatty tissue! Much less intrusive! This rationale doesn't get a =
mention, and so the community starts wondering if breastmilk is a bit =
"sus" (suspicious) because it is breastmilk that is always being tested =
for pollutants, and level are then quoted.
Over the years, the statements on the bottoms of reports - that =
breastmilk's advantages far outweigh any potential disadvantages from =
the pollutants - have frequently been left off when newspapers cut for =
space. Also, how many readers finish a newspaper report to the very =
end, anyway? So, the scare bit gets through to the public, and the bit =
at the end doesn't register.
Regards,
Virginia
Virginia Thorley [log in to unmask]
=20
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:21:56 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Virginia G Thorley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Can I nurse your baby"
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Teresa,
In Australia, "Can I nurse your baby?" would just mean, "Can I =
hold/cuddle the baby?" I gather it didn't mean this in your anecdote. =
Most of us working with Mums and babies get to have a nurse of the baby =
at some stage during the consultation, but definitely don't offer the =
breast! Similarly, if the baby wakes and cries when the mother is in =
the shower, Dad might nurse her/him till Mum can come and breastfeed! =
Isn't teh English language wonderful - so much diversity.
Cheers,
Virginia
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:12:21 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Virginia G Thorley <[log in to unmask]>
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Marie and Lactnetters,
And the old King James Version of the Christian gospels actually =
says: "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the *paps* that you have =
sucked" - paps being cereal-based breastmilk substitutes common at the =
time of this English translation (early 1600s). A case of the =
translater fitting his version in with the non-breastfeeding custom of =
his own time! Translations can be funny things, espec. in reflecting =
the translator's own time and attitudes.
Cheers,
Virginia
Virginia Thorley [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:58:01 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: pollutants in breastmilk as per WWF study
Heather said: There has been a clear underlying recognition (I think) that
while of
course breast milk should be as safe as possible, we should be aware that
cows milk formula and the water used to make it up may have toxins
in....though this has not always been spelt out.
Things to remeber:
this is, I understand, a 'desktop review' of previously existing research -- not
a new study.
Also, the point is that every human in the world is full of toxins. We can
measure these because women shed their toxic load through the placenta while
pregnant and during breastfeeding -- especially during the first pregnancy/bf.
To measure milk is a good way to measure the general level for all of us. (Cos
milk is easy to get out and also cos it is fatty and some of these chemicals are
fat-soluable.). Lawrence (5th e) talks about measuring milk or plasma to
determine levels of toxins.
The headline writers take the news that we are basically polluting the world and
ourselves and make the most sensationalist headlines they can. Hence 'breast
milk poison alert' (which was The Express, not the Daily Mail, as I earlier
said). Thus, society, which should feel shame for the mess it is in, has
conveniently found a discrete group to point the finger at -- 'look at them,
they are at risk, its a mumsy-baby thing, we don't need to worry'.
sigh.
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:03:58 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pollutants in breastmilk as per WWF study
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Well explained, Magda.
See todays Guardian
http:www.guardian.co.uk
for a (mostly) okay piece about bf and pollution. I say mostly, because
although it makes the good point that breast milk is tested as a useful way
of seeing what contaminants are in the human body it
* only mentions water(used to make up formula) as another source of
pollution, not the cows milk itself
* says we do not need to worry as the calculations were based on a
lifetime's exposure to breast milk ie if you were breastfed all your life,
this is the amount of toxins you'd get - and as most babies are bf for only
6 weeks and a year at most, it's okay. Hmmmmmph.
But remember this is the same paper - and the same section, too, the
Parents pages - that ran Julie Birchill's gruesome piece on the
'breastfeeding nazis' in May, so let's say they're making amends.....
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:00:18 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WWF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Heather,
>There has been a clear underlying recognition (I think) that while of
>course breast milk should be as safe as possible, we should be aware that
>cows milk formula and the water used to make it up may have toxins
>in....though this has not always been spelt out. I really don't think this
>scare 'has legs'...wonder if other UK lactnetters agree with my gut
>reaction about the response.
I don't think the scare has legs because in UK, we've had one food scare
after another. When the government banned beef on the bone (for fear of
BSE), it had little effect on sales; I think the UK consumer is getting
wise to these things, and realises they usually blow over. Maybe a few
women, who were ambivalent anyway, may use it as an excuse to ABM feed,
but I asked several pregnant women I know and all of them said "But they
say breastfeeding is still better, don't they?" (none were educated
women). Breastfeeding supporters I know haven't been deluged with calls
from concerned mothers.
To quote one mother "If they say the air is poisoned, I'm not going to
stop breathing".
--
Anna H. Breastfeeding advocate and writer.
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:30:52 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Debbie Codding <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: lecithin, lactnet archives
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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I have not posted in quite a while but now am in need of help. What
happened to the Lactnet archives? I have a mom who is having trouble with
chronic plugged ducts. I have lost my Lactnet post on the use of lecithin
and low sodium diet. Can someone tell me where to search Lactnet or post
the amount of lecithin to take and other treatments for chronic plugged
ducts?
TIA
Debbie Codding
Naval Hospital Guam
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:42:06 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Debbie Codding <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: nevermind
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oops, didn't know about the server change. I have since found what I am
looking for.
Debbie Codding
Naval Hospital Guam
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:46:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Beth Allen
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Does anyone (privately) have Beth Allen's phone and/or fax?
Email privately. Thanks. Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:24:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jeanne Mitchell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Oxytocin and "paps"
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Judy Hopkinson presents an excellent section on matrescence (the process
of becoming a mother) in the TX Dept. of Health's course in
breastfeeding. Oxytocin is indeed present in the male and is released
during orgasm, and increases with touch by a trusted individual. Men,
interestingly, experience an increase in oxytocin as they age, which may
be what makes grandfathers so good with their grandchildren.
The research I will always remember is that of scientists injecting male
rat pups with oxytocin. A little oxytocin in a male rat causes him to
start collecting and grooming the other rat pups. An overload of
oxytocin makes him fall asleep. Anyone on Lactnet surprised by that
one? :-D
BTW, I believe the word "paps" was used in Shakespeare by Juliet's
nurse, and by Hamlet's mother, and the implication was clear that they
were discussing their previous breastfeeding relationship.
Y'all have a good day.
Jeanne Mitchell
Austin, TX
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:36:49 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Virginia G Thorley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lactnet as a sharing community
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It has been good, during my few days back on Lactnet, to see Lactnet =
functioning as a sharing community, with (mostly) useful discussion of =
issues, particular situations in mothers or infants, and professional =
matters. There's a lot of shared experience and wisdom out there.
Pressure of work means that I'm about to go NO MAIL again - just =
when I was enjoying myself! I can be reached on my private email.
Best wishes to all,
Virginia
Virginia Thorley, in Brisbane, =
Queensland
[log in to unmask]
The milk of human kindness doesn't come out of a bottle, a can, or a =
plastic sachet, but out of a mother's breast.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:30:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patricia Sawarna <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: curdled milk
A mom has asked me to post re the subject. She went back to work 1 1/2 weeks
ago. Since returning to work her expressed milk curdles when given to her 3
month old baby. She pumps every 4 hours, pours milk into platex bag &
stores in frig. Caregiver pours milk into glass bottle, shakes, & warms in
hot water. The milk curdles when he feeds it to the baby. It curdles more &
becomes frothy with further shaking. They used this same process before her
return to work & with a bottle of frozen milk with no milk curdles. She is
wondering why this is happening since returning to work - could it be
stress. She is also concerned that the baby is not getting the fat content
of the milk if it is remaining on the bottle.
I checked the aschives & found one posting. I suggested not using hot water
to warm the bottle & to shake the milk lightly. Your experience would be
appreciated.
Patricia Sawarna RN BScN IBCLC
RR#1 Oxford Mills, Ont, Can
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:42:33 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: pollutants in breastmilk
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The short answer, is yes, virginia, there are certainly pollutants in
breastmilk. The pollutants are there because of years of exposure of the
mom to trace amounts (and sometimes more) of lipid soluble chemicals that
are stored in body fats. These fats are mobilized when fats are needed for
lactation. Human milk contains more chemicals than formula and cow's milk
because of the diversity of our diets and lifestyles compared to cows.
However, if you compare the risks associated with chemicals to human milk
to the risks associated with formula-feeding (increased rates of infant
morbidity and mortality), breastmilk comes out clearly the better choice.
That is what we should be emphasizing to medical professionals and nursing
moms. If you are interested in seeing 'the numbers' upon which this
assessment is based, please contact me by email ([log in to unmask])
for a book chapter I authored on this topic.
Judy Schreiber, Ph.D., New York State Dept of Health. New address/phone:
Flanigan Square, Room 330, 547 River St., Troy, NY 12180; phone
518-402-7800.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:06:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Marie Biancuzzo <[log in to unmask]>
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Whoa! I have never seen this translation!
>Marie and Lactnetters,
> And the old King James Version of the Christian gospels actually says:
>"Blessed is the womb that bore you and the *paps* that you have sucked" -
>paps being cereal-based breastmilk substitutes common at the time of this
>English translation (early 1600s). A case of the translater fitting his
>version in with the non-breastfeeding custom of his own time!
>Translations can be funny things, espec. in reflecting the translator's
>own time and attitudes.
> Cheers,
> Virginia
> Virginia Thorley [log in to unmask]
>
--
Marie Biancuzzo, Perinatal Clinical Nurse Specialist
PO Box 387
Herndon VA 20172
Phone 703-748-0092
Fax 703-758-0891
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:21:41 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LLLI and bonding
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I agree with Kathy D and others about the joy of seeing happy bonded parents
and children. This is probably the biggest reason I like seeing
breastfeeding parents/babies.
I do see well bonded bootle feeders but on average the breastfeeders bond
better.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
general pediatrician
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:18:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: ryansangel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Has anyone seen the august issue of Elle?
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forgive me if this has already been mentioned...
On pg 40 of the Aug. Elle there is a great letter to the editor re:
breastfeeding. I can type it if anyone would like to see it. It was in
reference to an article in the June issue re: allergies. the best comment
of this letter, and I quote " We have forgotten the basics: fruits,
vegetable, and breast milk, not cookies, candy and formula...."
Maggie
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:40:12 +0200
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From: Rachel e-mail <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Why limit the ban to CO-sleeping?
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Are there any documented cases of SIDS in awake babies? We offer =
parents support groups when their babies don't sleep through the night =
at 3 months, instead of recognizing such infants as eminently suited for =
survival. How has this outrageous situation been allowed to continue =
all these years? Where were the pediatricians? (Probably asleep =
themselves!)
Lactnuts, unite! Let us at once direct all our efforts toward enactment =
of a world wide total ban on infant sleeping! The answer is so obvious =
that we simply haven't seen the forest for the trees. Keep babies awake =
continuously until they are past the risk age for SIDS-- brilliant!
See you all at the first rally-- (we could hold it at the next =
pediatricians' convention)
Rachel Myr
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:08:50 -0400
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From: "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LLLI conference sessions
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Would any of you who attended the LLLI conference e-mail me directly with=
recommendations for video or audio tapes that you think would be good to
have? I attended some of the sessions but of course couldn't attend them=
all and have really enjoyed owning Dr. Palmer's and Dr. Klaus' and the c=
up
feeding - Sandra Lang's - video tapes from previous conferences as well a=
s
many audio tapes. =
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, IBCLC, LLLL
Vacaville, CA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:48:38 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Formula "donations" in emergencies
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Dear Lactfolks,
You may find the following interesting. Too bad the formula company is not
named.
Lisa Mo
LLLL, Bowling Green, KY
New York Times, June 29, 1999
"Among U.S. Donations, Tons of Worthless Drugs" by Reed Abelson
(Towards the end of the article is the following:)
"No one seriously expects governments in every case to speak up against the
practice, either. Many rubber-stamp the shipments lest they set off
diplomatic waves and offend donors at a time when they may be desperate
for foreign aid. And some companies turn the pressure up by insisting that
charities take unwanted donations as a condition for getting the things
they really need. A relief worker in Macedonia for CARE said his group was
offered what seemed like a package deal: baby food, which was welcome, and
infant formula, which was not.
Most relief organizations see formula as undermining breast-feeding and
rightly worry about whether refugee camps or poor regions have the proper
sanitation to make sure bottles and other supplies are sterile. The deal
was refused."
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:51:00 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: oxytocin
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Judy:
men do have oxytocin.
for information and reference look at Niles Newton's work. "The Role of
Oxytocin Reflexesi n Three Interperson Reproductive Acts: coitus, Birth nad
Breastfeeding 1978
Oxytocin would contract smooth muscles in men as in women SO yes, this is
what happens when nipples "harden"
There is some thought that oxyocin may also influence sprem transport.
The psyscological effects should be similiar.
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:13:02 -0400
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From: lorri <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Barbara Whitehead
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Can anyone tell me how to contact Barbara WHitehead other than via email?
Please use private email. Thanks.
Lorri Centineo
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:25:26 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New Aids Drug and Breastfeeding
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Just got this press release.
Ruth Scuderi
Westfield, MA
------------------
New Drug Protects Newborns from AIDS
.c The Associated Press
By LAURAN NEERGAARD
WASHINGTON (AP) - Scientists working in Uganda have discovered a dramatically
more effective way to prevent pregnant women from spreading the AIDS virus to
their babies: a drug treatment that costs just $4 per mother and could save
up to 1,000 newborns a day.
The drug nevirapine already is widely sold around the world to treat AIDS.
But the new study found it is 47 percent more effective than the therapy now
recommended in developing countries for preventing mother-to-baby
transmission of the AIDS virus.
The discovery, announced Wednesday by U.S. scientists, could finally boost
AIDS prevention among the world's poorest countries because for the first
time the nations most afflicted by the AIDS epidemic could afford to buy
babies some protection.
``You're talking about the possibility of preventing infection in up to 1,000
babies per day for a cost that is really very minor,'' said Dr. Anthony Fauci
of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, which funded the research. ``Now
all of a sudden it falls, at least in some countries, within the realm of
affordability.''
``This research provides real hope that we may be able to protect many of
Africa's next generation from the ravages of AIDS,'' said Uganda's health
minister, Crispus Kiyonga, in a statement.
One of the greatest successes in the fight against AIDS is using the drug AZT
to lower pregnant women's chances of spreading the deadly virus to their
newborns. In the United States and other wealthy countries, infected mothers
typically receive five months of AZT, a therapy that cuts in half their
babies' risk of infection.
But that treatment can cost more than $1,000, far beyond what developing
countries can afford.
Last year, scientists discovered that giving far fewer AZT doses, starting
during labor, could protect newborns, although not as effectively as the
treatment Americans get. But even that ``short-course AZT therapy'' was too
expensive for many countries.
Nevirapine is a cheaper AIDS drug. Although it works against the same viral
target as AZT, it stays in the body for a longer time, crosses the placenta
and even gets into breast milk.
U.S. scientists, working with doctors in Uganda, studied 618 mothers. Half
got short-course AZT. The other half got a single dose of nevirapine during
labor, and their babies got a single dose within three days of birth.
The scientists hoped nevirapine would prove as good as AZT - but to their
surprise, it worked far better. Just 13.1 percent of nevirapine-treated
infants became infected with HIV, vs. 25.1 percent of AZT-treated babies.
The United Nations estimates that 1,800 HIV-infected babies are born daily in
developing countries. In parts of sub-Saharan Africa, the region hardest-hit
by AIDS, up to 30 percent of pregnant women are infected.
Widespread use of nevirapine could prevent between 300,000 and 400,000 babies
a year from contracting HIV at birth, the NIH said.
The new study has implications for American women, too: If a woman goes into
labor without having had prenatal AZT treatment, doctors could consider
giving her nevirapine, Fauci said.
In addition, a study under way of U.S. and European women will attempt to
determine whether adding nevirapine to the longer and more expensive AZT
therapy that they now take also would work better.
Nevirapine, sold in the United States under the brand name Viramune, appeared
safe for infants. But scientists will follow the babies until they're 18
months old, both to look for possible long-term side effects - and to see
whether nevirapine also could protect against HIV in breast milk. Babies born
healthy still can become infected through breast-feeding, something no drug
so far has prevented. But early data are ``highly suggestive'' that
nevirapine might prove beneficial in breast milk, Fauci said.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:17:21 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Roni Chastain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hiv testing
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<<
my sil was just visiting, she is an aids social worker in new york, so
naturally we had lots to talk about, and yes, she said there is indeed a law
requiring hiv testing. however my understanding is that the law said NOTHING
about breastfeeding (surely we would have heard, right?) and since jack
newman is still not on lactnet, i will repeat for him "nobody can make a
mother not breastfeed, they can only provide information to her and she
decides."
probably just another way to force her to have the test done, since it is
usually done prenatally.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
>>
Greetings Everyone,
As far as I know this is NOT mandatory in New York, it is HIGHLY recommended
that pregnant women be tested for HIV, but I do not believe it has been made
into a law as yet. I have a call into the AIDES Project of New York, they
are checking for me. What I have been told is that there was talk of making
it into a law but that it has not been passed yet. As soon as I find out for
sure I will post it.
I would think there are some professionals that use this as a threat to get
women to consent to HIV testing.
Again, I will post as soon as I find out for certain.
Roni Chastain, RN, LCCE, FACCE
Visiting Nurse MCH/Peds NYC
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:42:23 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Bracha Haskel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Milk Grotto Shrine in Bethlehem
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Just have to mention that in my before-children life as an Israeli tour
guide, I came across the "Milk Grotto" cave in Bethlehem. Please excuse if I
don't remember the exact details, but it is a white limestone cave where
Mary breastfed her son, the white color supposedly caused by her milk. It is
a pilgrimage location that must be based on a tradition of breastfeeding !
If anyone is coming during Israel 2000, please ask your guide to visit and
report back to us!
Bracha Haskel
LLL, Childbirth educator
Golan Heights, Israel
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:51:38 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: jhroibal <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cindy Crawford's baby
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This week's issue of People magazine has a front cover of international
super-model, Cindy Crawford. She recently gave birth to her first child
*at home.* While the article went into detail as to what she wore
during her entire pregnancy and how her mother came to visit, there is
no mention of whether Ms. Crawford is breastfeeding.
I seriously want to know if she is breastfeeding. What a great
role-model, if she is. Does anyone know any updates?
Heidi S. Roibal BS, IBLCE, LLLL
Albuqueruqe, NM
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:28:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Tim Hendrix <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mag Sulfate and Breastfeeding
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Gee, I breastfed while on MgSo4 16 1/2 years ago. Maybe that is why I
ended up with sore, cracked bleeding nipples?? OR was it because I had
lack of knowledge and education and just kept going, until my nurse
practitioner returned my call and gave me some info via the mail??
Just one more *opinion* that is not backed by research based
information! We still have so much educating to do. Well, at least the
USA isn't the only place that has to deal with this sort of ridiculous
rationalization! This mom needs to ask the people who told her this to
show her where in the research she could find more information on
this......maybe they would be embarrassed and stop giving this type of
opinionated advice.
Pam Hendrix, RN, IBCLC, ICCE
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:31:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sue - Silent Night
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Sue, can you tell us the author and publisher, possibly copyright date?
Thanks, Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:06:37 -0400
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From: Rachael Barlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: curdled milk
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I thought I had milk that would go bad too. Then at a LLL meeting,
one leader said, "I'll bet if you hand express it into a clean, sterile,
glass that it doesn't go bad." I did so, and milk that had been going
bad in a half hour, was fine 2 hours later on the counter. She suggested,
and it makes sense, that I wasn't adequately cleaning my pump. I was
washing it per manufacture instructions, (using the dishwasher), but
it seems that it needed to be boiled and scrubbed. Then the problem
went away.
Rachael Barlow
LLLLeader in Westford, MA
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:03:39 -0500
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From: Johanna Berger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Formula "donations" in emergencies
In the US, pharmaceutical companies also get tax deductions for donations
to relief organizations during times of emergencies.
Johanna Berger, LSW
Breastfeeding Counselor
Bala Cynwyd, PA
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:44:58 -0400
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From: Joy Holtz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Contaminants in breastmilk
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You know, there's something that really concerns me about this whole
contaminated breastmilk issue. One of the most precious substances known
to man, breastmilk, is being polluted and we as breastfeeding
proponents ought to be completely outraged and ready to take organized
action against companies which employ manufacturing techniques or use
chemical processes that contribute to this environmental contamination.
All we've done so far is defensively but accurately point out that
formula is worse (as I sincerely believe based on available research).
The formula companies undoubtedly benefit greatly from all the negative
publicity about breastmilk. Those negative and not well thought out
comments by the media are sure to make an impression in the minds of
mothers who may be straddling the fence on the issue of breastfeeding or
those looking for an excuse to quit when the going gets a little tough.
Aren't the comments making an impression on us too? ABMs, as far as I
know, aren't being tested for the contaminants that have been found in
breastmilk. Yes, as mentioned here, probably ABMs contains less
lipidphilic chemicals than breastmilk due to its lower fat content, but
what about the other chemicals like heavy metals, growth hormones, etc.?
What do you think would happen to breastfeeding rates if LLL, for
example, publicly called for a boycott of paper manufacturers (major
dioxin producers)? To call attention to this abomination of breastmilk
contamination, could only help the "other side" and alarm people
unnecessarily. What's the solution then?
If we think that contamination of breastmilk and our food supply in
general is a problem, as surely it is, then we should also become
activists on another front, the environmental one.
Joy Holtz, R.N.
Wilmington, NC
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:13:04 -0400
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From: by Christine LAM Chi-oi IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: toxins in breastmilk
Dear lactnet members,
The news of the pollutants in breastmilk from UK arouse quite a big
discussion in HK. Many phone calls to breastfeeding mothers' association to
ask it still safe to nurse. Almost no health professional has say a word in
the media on this issue. They rang me for any good / appropriate response
to this concern. Up to my understanding on the advantages of breastmilk and
the risk of artifical feed, I told them my answer is uptill now, studies
still tell the health of artifical feeding infants and the sebsequent
mortality and mobitity is much higher than breastfed babies.
The study In UK is not alarm us the possible risk to continue breastfeed,
but the environmental harzards to the community where the study was done to
ALL people there.
Another point is can any one tell me any webpage can i find more
information in environmental contamination and food and breastmilk /
pregnancy.
Thanks.
Christine LAM IBCLC
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