I can't speak for all mothers, because i know my case was not uncommon,
but traumatic. I had difficulty from the first time, because we'd waited
until the next day after my c-section to try to nurse, which means Chris
already had several bottles. The nurses were not trained in lactation,
commented on my inverted nipples, and tried to force him to the breast. One
insulted his stubborness. One came in to my private room and told me to be
decent and not show the whole world, because I'd found it easier to unsnap
my i.v. gown (since my i.v. was still in my hand and threatening to come
out, despite several nurses commenting on how they needed to replace that)
than to bunch it over my breast because it was too hard to fight with that
and with my son who was severely nipple confused. I'd found the unsnapping
the gown easier, but found it impossible to snap it back up with one hand.
When we got home, I wouldn't let my husband be a witness to the repeated
nursing failures because I was afraid he too would've offered a ton of
suggestions, and he probably would've since he wanted me to nurse more than
I did at the time. The La Leche League Leader that helped us was the first
person who really treated me with care and respect. I hadn't realized how
traumatic that was until I went to a lactation clinic to observe a client
whose case was very similar to mine. It really struck me when they just
invited her to take off anything that would be in the way, and she sat there
topless, nursing her baby, with 5 other people in the room, no one really
indicating that this was abnormal in any way. I cried on the way home.
I was really very thankful that we were 2000 miles away from family and
most friends when Chris was born, so I didn't have people coming to the
house wanting to see him and staying forever, telling me what to do with
him. I think that would've interfered with a lot of things, including my
eventual decision to attachment parent. Not having people around helped me
to really get to know my son, and to get through our first struggle together
(cupfeeding and relactating)actually helped us undo a lot of the damage that
was done by our birth experience, so it doesn't surprise me in the least
that the ones who interfere the most with animal raising are the ones who
end up raising the animals. Reading what Dr. Bradley says about animals
needing privacy to birth also reminds me of that.
Just a few personal thoughts
Lora Horn
LC student, Marriage and Family Therapy student,
but most of all, Mommy
Pasadena, CA
___________________________________
"The services which mothers and fathers habituallly render their children
are so taken for granted that their magnitude is forgotten. In no other
relationship do human beings place themselves so unreservedly and so
continuously at the disposal of others." --John Bowlby
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:54:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: regain birthwt
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Dear Heather, in most instances in US we have a fairly accurate idea of
birthwt. Sometimes 6-8 gets written down as 8-6 and everyone panics the
next day, until cooler heads prevail! Of course most babies are weighed in
gms now anyway. It is customary in US to weigh babies once per day while
in hospital. And I am aware that there are subtle scale to scale
differences.
I agree we don't really know what normal is (as in loss, then regain). Need
formal studies. I'm just saying based on what I saw over a one year
period, is that most babies drop a little first day or two and are back to
birthwt or gaining by day 4. These were babies who stayed 24 hours and
went home and basically nursed ad lib right from beginning. My limited
experience with home born babies was basically little or no loss.
I'm just saying that waiting until 2 weeks out may affect long term milk
supply because of poor removal early on, or baby gets some really poor
patterns of sucking ingrained or mom just simply gets discouraged and
switches to bottles because baby doesn't seem satisfied etc, etc. I'm
just saying that weight, used appropriately, gives us a good idea in the
early days whether or not effective milk transfer is happening. I don't
personally give a 2 week leeway for regain/gain. I'm also a fanatic about
dirty and wet diapers early on. I expect lots of dirty diapers and use the
one wet per day of age rule of thumb for wet. Day 2 - 2 wet, maybe 3-4
dirty.
Milk transfer is the goal. Mom has to make it and baby has to get it.
Removal of milk opens way for increasing production, increasing gain.
Static weight or loss is a red flag to me. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nipple Dermatitis
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Cathy, actually I think Jack's APNO is a better choice for a dermatitis.
NP, not a dr either. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:14:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lamaze video
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I watched this video a few years ago and sent them all back and asked for
my name to be removed from their list. It is a giant advert with little of
use. Free doesn't necessarily make it good :-) Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:25:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ADHD-genetic or impairment?
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Reasons for AD(H)D are probably multiple, complex and interrelated. My
sample of 2 are my sister and her ADD child. After they had been going to
the pysch for a long time, he casually mentioned to her "you do know, don't
you, that you are ADD too." My sister was not BF, her son had been BF 2
years. Go figure. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:28:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Yikes! Leave BF in the hospital
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I think we need a happy medium, a place where problems can be helped,
NICUs, ICUs etc and a bed and breakfast sort of place for the no problem
dyads. The problem is that the hospital has to medicalize birth to justify
their use as a place of birth. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:53:45 -0400
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: being watched
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>I distinctly remember my husband feeling that, in my desire to pay attention
>to my toddler's intense need for Ima at that time, I was less attentive to my
>newborn's cues than I had been with her sister.
Michel Odent, the French male obstetrician who has decided there
shouldn't be male obstetricians, shows a slide of a woman sitting
cross-legged right after birth, newborn cradled in her arms, looking
glowingly up at her partner. His comment: "She should be looking at
the baby."
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tummy to tummy?
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>.She
>is insisting we put that the baby needs to be tummy to tummy with mom while
>nursing. I prefer saying "tummy to chest"
I asked a bunch of mothers once when this was bothering me... and
don't remember what they said. I tried using the word "midriff," but
a lot of people don't know where that is. I tell brand new moms their
stomach comes with a shelf to put the baby on. Chris Mulford talks
about *pasting* the baby to the mother, and I like that image. Chris,
where exactly do you paste him? I think it's the Australians that
talk about the baby wrapping around the mom in a comma. Some have
said the baby's chest and navel and knees all need to be against the
mom. But the exact part of the mom's anatomy? Maybe that's why we
need pictures... Kittie Frantz found that telling moms to grab a
baby's ankles made them grab the feet, so she tells them to grab their
legs and they grab the ankles - or maybe it's the other way around.
Interesting how we interpret.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY, who remembers being mystified
by what a woman's lap was. It appeared only when she was sitting
down; otherwise it was just a skirt. What a moment of enlightenment
to realize it was legs!
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:28:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: can't tolerate the milk?
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>if one in twenty babies cannot tolerate their mother's milk, doesn't it seem
>odd that we don't know anything about it in our community (never seen this
>mentioned anywhere, lawrence, riordan and auerbach, etc.) and that the human
>race has SURVIVED? come on now.
Especially when one considers that our minimum "reloading time"
following an infant death, is nearly a year. It makes absolutely no
evolutionary sense to put 9 months of cumbersome pregnancy into
producing a single offspring with a 5 percent chance of withering and
dying in the first month or two purely because it couldn't tolerate
its food. If breastfeeding were that shaky, we'd have litters.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:36:46 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: killing yeast with bleach
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>diane, could you share with us how you treat an SNS with bleach to further
>sterilize? i am not a pump rental person, so have only recommended boiling to
>mothers who need to disinfect equipment.
I'd rather defer to Linda Smith or Kay Hoover on this one; seems to
me one or the other brought this up at a conference. But what I would
do is keep a container of 10% bleach solution near the sink, and run
some of it through the bottle and tubing at least a few times a day,
preceded by a rinse and followed by soapy water and good rinsing. And
once or twice a day I'd let it soak in the solution for 10 minutes or
so, partly to increase the contact time and partly to disinfect the
*outside* of the tubing.
Anyone have a better approach?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY, increasingly intimidated by
Yeast
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ADHD reference
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I seem to have caused a bit of a ruckus with my comment on breastfeeding and
ADHD. Here is more info:
As far as I am aware, there has been only one study published on ADHD that
included infant feeding as a variable and they found that their ADHD cases
had a lower frequency of "ever breastfed" than the controls and that among
those who were breastfed, the cases had a lower average duration of
breastfeeding than the controls. Both of these differences were highly
statistically significant.
Stevens, L.J., Zentall, S.S., Deck, J.L., Abate, M.L., Watkins, B.A., Lipp,
S.R. and Burgess, J.R. (1995) Essential fatty acid metabolism in boys with
attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition 62:761-768.
Intriguingly, in the abstract, they do NOT mention the links they found
between ADHD and infant feeding mode, nor in the conclusions section do they
offer breastfeeding as a recommendation for preventing or lessening the
severity of ADHD. Alas, this is often the fate of such findings about
breastfeeding. I talked at length on the phone with Burgess several years
ago, and he mentioned that they were going to begin clinical trials of
supplementing some of the boys' diets with essential fatty acids (and others
with placebos), as the ones with the most severe symptoms seemed to have
abnormal fatty acid metabolism. Of course, breast milk has a number of
fatty acids that are not found in formula, including docosahexanoic acid (DHA).
Dr. Rowland of the National Institutes of Health here in the US is currently
doing research on ADHD and has included breastfed/formula-fed and duration
of breastfeeding as variables in his study as well. He and his colleagues
say that their preliminary studies implicate environmental toxins, though it
wasn't clear from his email whether he meant exposure in utero or during
early childhood.
It is clear that in the US, ADHD shows up in clusters geographically and is
increasing in incidence, both suggesting that it is not "simply" a genetic
condition, though clearly there are genetic predispositions. It is also the
case that there are kids with ADHD and then there are kids with ADHD. By
which I mean, there are children who are a little fidgety in school and seem
to have more energy than normal but are otherwise bright and well-adjusted
(but who are diagnosed with ADHD and put on Ritalin), and then there are
children who literally bounce off the walls and can't concentrate long
enough to read a complete sentence, or learn to do Tae Kwan Do, or anything
that requires listening to someone else give directions.
Probably, like everything else, breastfeeding/formula-feeding is just one of
many factors that contribute to the presence or absence of specific conditions.
One Lactnetter wrote to me privately and said:
>Totally unscientific, but almost none of the severely ADHD kids I know
>were breastfed *at all*. However, I do think ADHD babies might be
>difficult to nurse, as there is a high correlation with fussy, colicy
>babies. Tactile defensiveness is a common issue with ADHD, too, as are
>all sensory integration issues. OTOH, many of these kids were not even
>breastfed once.
I think she may be onto something here. It would be very interesting if,
instead of just asking "breastfed or not" and "if breastfed, for how long"
if they actually interviewed moms about their intentions with respect to
breastfeeding and how did it work out, and if it *didn't* work out, why not.
It may be that kids start out with genetic or early uterine environmental
predispositions to ADHD, which are then made worse by not getting breast
milk, or not for long enough.
Again, the Lactnetter writes:
>The consensus in the various ADHD support groups is that [supplemental]
EFAs are not the answer.
I think that Burgess and colleagues suspect that it is the addition of EFAs
to the diet *during brain growth* (that is, before age 7) which could make
the difference -- not once the brain is formed. The brain is actively
growing and forming very rapidly for the first 6-7 years of life, by which
time 95% of brain growth is complete. It isn't just the first year or two.
Given the low rate of breastfeeding in the US, I suspect a lot of kids who
end up diagnosed as ADHD were bottle-fed from day one, and a lot of moms who
stop after 3 days or 3 weeks or 6 weeks or 3 months, would have done so
anyway -- just like moms of kids who *don't* end up diagnosed as ADHD.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:32:57 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: regain birthwt
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Pat
I hope you didn't misunderstand me or did I mispost? I agree with you. "Wt
loss or no gain at 4-5 days, certainly at 2 weeks, is a sign that milk
transfer is not occuring for whatever reason (baby problem, mom problem
etc.). A big red flag."
I was saying yes I think babies should be gaining straight away and I'm with
you - I see the red flags alot sooner than 2 wks. (Altho I must say that
doctors "giving babies" 2 wks to regain b.wt helps to avoid formula being
started very soon by them). At our facility, unfortunately, the babies leave
the hosp next day (day 3 for c/s) and generally return to the ped at 2 wks.
We follow them by phone on day 3 or 4 and for however long it takes. We will
bring them in if needed. However it would be much better if ALL bf couplets
returned to be checked (like at Evergreen in Washington USA) at day 3/4. One
day I hope to implement that. And, believe me, if you knew the week I had,
sadly, that is a LONG WAY away.
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Violet Louisiana, USA
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:58:42 -0400
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From: Sister Miriam Bauerlin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lamaze video
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I too sent the videos back and wrote a letter to LaMaze Did not get a reply
Patrica Young wrote:
> I watched this video a few years ago and sent them all back and asked for
> my name to be removed from their list. It is a giant advert with little of
> use. Free doesn't necessarily make it good :-) Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
>
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:13:06 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FYI-woman loses breastfeeding lawsuit
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Lactnetters this was in the spokane paper today-Karen Querna
Woman loses breast-feeding lawsuit
> Spokane jury rules she was not a victim of sexual discrimination in
> her dismissal
> Tom Sowa - The Spokesman-Review
> Spokane _ A Spokane jury took just 60 minutes to rule against a woman
> who sued her former employer over not being able to breast-feed her
> child during work breaks.
> After a weeklong trial in Spokane County Superior Court, the
> seven-woman, five-man jury ruled that 36-year-old Donna Cok was not
> the victim of sexual discrimination or wrongful termination.
> Disappointed, Cok sat outside a Spokane County courtroom and said,
> ``Justice wasn't served. That's all I feel like saying.''
> Cok had been a respiratory therapist employed by Advanced Lifeline
> Services, a Kentucky company that operated a care unit at a South Hill
> nursing center.
> After giving birth to her third child, Cok returned to work on Aug. 4,
> 1996. She was employed by ALS to care for elderly patients and
> residents at the Southcrest Subacute and Specialty Care Center.
> Within 90 minutes of starting a 12-hour night shift, her husband
> brought their crying 8-week-old infant to the center to be breast-fed.
> The next day, she was told by her supervisor she would not be able to
> continue breast-feeding the child unless it occurred only during her
> 30-minute lunch or 10-minute breaks.
> Cok said she wanted more flexibility to breast-feed the infant, who,
> she added, had a dislike for breast-pumped milk from a bottle.
> Two months later, Cok lost her job. At the time, she was the primary
> breadwinner in her family.
> In 1997, Cok and her husband, Brad, moved the family to Plymouth,
> Ohio, where he gained employment working for a railroad.
> That same year, Cok sued ALS, saying the company had discriminated
> against her on the basis of her gender. She also claimed she was
> discharged from the job for the same reason.
> During the trial, her attorney Daniel Huntington did not set an exact
> dollar request for damages. He said Cok deserved about $69,000 in lost
> wages and an unspecified amount for pain and suffering.
> But the jury quickly found in favor of Advanced Lifeline Services,
> saying Cok had failed to prove that discrimination had occurred.
> ``What we did conclude was that both sides were guilty of very poor
> communication. This should have been resolved way before a lawsuit was
> settled,'' said one juror who didn't want to be identified.
> The decision was not unanimous, however. In the matter of wrongful
> termination, two of the 12 jurors voted on the side of Cok.
> Attorney Steven Pence, representing ALS, said he felt grateful jurors
> made a quick ruling in the company's favor.
> ``I must add ALS doesn't see this as a total victory. Part of my job
> is to make sure we don't get into situations like this.
> ``And we'll try to avoid it happening again,'' Pence said.
> In his closing arguments, Spence reminded the jurors that Cok wrote a
> letter to her supervisor that amounted to a list of workplace demands.
> ``This isn't a case about breast feeding,'' he told jurors. ``This is
> a case about a company protecting the health and care needs of its
> patients.''
> Cok's story had been featured on two national TV shows. She appeared
> on the Leeza Gibbons Show in 1997. Earlier this year, NBC's Dateline
> featured her lawsuit in a segment of its news magazine.
>
>
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:15:42 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carolee Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pump returns
Dear Lactnetter,
I'm sure this has been covered but I did not find it in the archives. I
have been told that stores are legally obligated to accept pump returns.
Here in Columbus GA we have a walmart that is refusing to accept pump
returns for "health reasons." Can anyone tell me the legal position on
this. Thanks for your help.
Carolee Hall, ICCE, CD, LE
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:29:04 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: not medicalizing bfg
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I would like to second Barbara's post on this topic and add that I lived in
a town in which a mom had been told to "tuck the baby in" and the result was
fatal. This town and its medical staff remained very touchy on the subject of
bf advice for many many years after.
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:50:18 -0400
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Comments: RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or incomplete address field found and
ignored.
From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Reality of Breastfeeding
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Has anyone read this book?
_The Reality of Breastfeeding: Reflections by Contemporary Women_
Edited by Amy Benson Brown and Kathryn Read McPherson
I've finally finished it ... and I enjoyed it, for the most part. A few of
the many essays share views on BFing and parenting that I don't agree
with -- of course! -- but in general, I think it's a worthwhile read.
Touches upon a lot of important issues. I highly recommend it.
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:37:15 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Blood in milk
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Hi everyone
Had a call today from a Breastfeeding Cousellor who is helping
someone via email.
Mother has a 6 month old baby and works as a nurse. Sometimes
pumps at work using hospital pump (?lactina). Has done this for
some time. A few days ago pumped blood from one breast (about 4
oz of bloody milk). This stopped the next day, then the other breast
started to bleed instead!!
Apparently she has not changed her pumping method, no trauma
to breasts, no change to baby's feeding pattern, no history of
breast pathology or illness in mother, no new medications/herbs
etc.
I have dealt with women who have had blood in their milk in the
immediate postpartum period, but not months down the track.
Any insights???
Fiona
Fiona Coombes
Family Physician
Lactation Consultant
Perth Western Australia
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:51:58 -0700
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:51:29 -0700
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:56:03 +0300
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: afebrile painless breast abcess not responding to antibiotics
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The mastitis thread reminded me of a very interesting case which taught
me alot about mastitis several months ago. I will have to go from
memory because my notes are in the hospital.
A primip phoned me at 6wks pp with the following story. She had left
our hospital with well established breastfeeding using a silicone
shield due to the fact that she had had a VE and she could only nurse
lying down in the early days and due to very large breasts, the baby
could only latch with the help of the shield and mom felt more
confident with it. I advised her to try to discontinue using it as
soon as she could, and she assured me that she was in contact with an
LC and would do so with her help.
Now at 6 wks, she had her third case of mastitis. First case occurred
10 days pp and was treated with homeopathic meds by her LC and partially
resolved. Next flare-up occurred within ten days and LC was away so
she went to her gynie who told her that the reason that she is
experiencing frequent breast infections is due to the fact that she is
American and because Americans bathe so frequently, they have more
infections as opposed to another ethnic group who don't. Still waiting
for him to give me the reference on that one!!!!
He gave her a course of antibiotics which he changed halfway through
treatment ( memory fails me here, I think he started with amoxycillin
and changed to Orbenil.) The infection never really resolved, and a
subsequent flare-up at 6 weeks resulted in her contacting me.
This as the other cases was in the same location, upper right quadrant
of left breast. What was strange this time was that she was afebrile
and experiencing no pain in the affected area. This alarmed me and I
asked her to come straight to our ER but to stop by and see me on the
way.
Her entire upper left breast was angry purple. Palpation revealed a
defined lump which was painless and did not change while the baby nursed
a vigorous feed on this side. I felt no change in the lump with slight
pressure during the feed. The whole area was painless. A nurse was in
with me during the examination and we concurred that what probably had
happened was that the initial treatment with homeopathic substances ( no
memory of what it was) had cause healing but did not resolve the
infection. Scar tissue may have caused encapsulation and closed off
the blood supply to the area and hence no fever and no response to
antibiotics as well as no pain.
The possibility of this being initially caused by tumor remained in both
our minds and we sent her immediately to ER with instructions to perform
FNA prior to surgery. The surgeon on duty refused both FNA or ultrasound
and of course told the mom to stop breastfeeding. AAAAARGH! They
drained the abscess and the last time I spoke to the mom which was about
a month post-op she still felt a nodule in the area. By the way, every
time a gynie on our staff tells a mom to stop breastfeeding when she has
early signs of infection, I ask the doc if a woman came to him with a
UTI would he tell her to stop urinating. They all go away scratching
their heads and now they tell the moms to feed often on the affected
side or at least drain it. DUH!!!!
Although she was under the care of another LC, I strongly urged her to
see a breast specialist and perhaps someone would ultrasound it or
perform a more in-depth examination. She preferred to wait until the
baby was weaned. I explained to her the possibilities, but she was
resisting. I may just call her to say hi this week and find out what is
happening. I just don't want to step on any of my colleagues toes.
Has anyone else had a similar experience with an abscess in an afebrile
patient who experiences no pain? I think the encapsulation theory is
correct, but the cause is not clear. Any ideas?
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
Lis Maternity Hospital
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:35:46 -0700
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From: Janie Ginder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: insufficient milk case
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I would like to clarify some of the information that Martha posted on
our
client with insufficient milk. I cared for them during birth and for
the
first 6 hours postpartum, the babe was not suctioned, no separation, at
breast within 30 minutes licking at nipple but no latch. Babe first
latched at 2 1/2 hrs after birth which is very late compared to our
normal 20 minutes and this was due to the transfer to the hospital and
the extensive repair work, still they were never separated and babe was
not bathed. Did feed well twice but fussy as though she had a sore
head.
The weight loss was not the only criteria on which decisions were based,
by day five with 15% weight loss the babe was looking very hungry and
with borderline voids and only one dark green stool. Mucous membranes
were dry, babe was feeding frequently and vigorously with few audible
swallows and no open-pause-close type feeding. By the next day babe had
begun to be less vigorous at breast and very sleepy. This was a case of
rule #1 FEED THE BABY! If we had not been following this baby at day 2
and day 5, if there had been no intervention at all I believe this baby
would very likely have been seriously dehydrated by day 8. Fortunately
these parents would have and did recognize a problem and seek help.
We do weigh babies frequently and the vast majority are up to and beyond
birth weight by one week. But weight is not viewed alone, it is only
one
piece of the puzzle. Our babies are born out of hospital and go home
within 6 hours. Because of the short-stay we visit between 48 and 72
hours for a full assessment of mom, baby (including weight) and feeding
along with teaching. Most babies have lost less than 5% by this visit,
this baby was seen at 36 hours and had lost 10%, big difference!
We also have a Well Baby Clinic every week, parents bring their babies
from birth to 1yr olds in for weight checks and questions, we do this
primarily to provide a supportive environment but in the process we will
occasionally catch a baby who is not doing well based on reported
feeding patterns, weight and elimination.
This mom has excellent support from her partner, the only thing she had
to do was feed the baby. Dad kept all the records, set up and cleaned
the supplementer and pump, fed mom and kept things running smoothly.
She did nothing but feed the baby and pump for the first 6 weeks and yet
she has never produced a full milk supply. And yes it was, and still
is, a huge ordeal. This mom is very committed what she and we would
like to know is if any of you have any ideas of things we can do or
could have done to increase her supply.
Also not mentioned was the fact that this mom had tubular shaped
breasts,
one more so than the other and the milk production was lower on the more
tubular breast. We unfortunately did not start Reglan until after 4
weeks, based on a reference that I recently obtained from Clinical
Pharmacy Vol 12, July 1993, p479, the greater yields are gained when
beginning Reglan within the first month.
The supposed ductal thrush actually did resolve with 4 weeks of
Diflucan
as recommended by Hale. I guess it could have been something other than
thrush but since it did resolve with the treatment I am assuming that it
was. The yeasty stuff is never as straight forward as I would like it
to be.
Thanx for all the comments and the opportunity to clarify!
Janie Ginder RN
Nurse-Midwifery Birthing Center
Eugene, OR
>
>
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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 23:29:26 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fw: semantics
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A counsellor colleague of mine says to her classes, 'remember it's tummy to
mummy' but of course that doesn't work with the US 'mommy' : (
I say to them 'chest to chest, baby to breast' - is that accurate enough?
It's to stop them turning the baby on to his back, and to try and avoid
'posting' the nipple in to the baby's mouth...reminding them the baby is
brought to the breast, and not the breast poked into the baby...
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:38:23 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: insufficient milk case
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Thanks Janie for giving more crucial information about this case.
>The weight loss was not the only criteria on which decisions were based,
>by day five with 15% weight loss the babe was looking very hungry and
>with borderline voids and only one dark green stool. Mucous membranes
>were dry, babe was feeding frequently and vigorously with few audible
>swallows and no open-pause-close type feeding. By the next day babe had
>begun to be less vigorous at breast and very sleepy.
*Of course* this means the situation needs attention - but normal practice
here is for that not to be *necessarily* intervention with formula,
pumping and SNS.
I am *not* saying oh, just leave it, it will work itself out, just keep bf,
and stay relaxed.
And I am not saying we have it right here, either - too often, HPs are *too
relaxed* about bf that's not going well in the first days and weeks.
For example, I am seeing a mother today who called last night. Her baby's
birthweight was 7 pounds 6 ounces. At three weeks he is 7 lbs 3 ounces.
Mother and baby seen regularly since birth by midwives and health visitors
- all of whom, as far as I can judge, have been very 'supportive' of bf,
but *clueless* on how to get it to be successful. But while knowing the
weights was useful, and a clear indicator that this mother and baby need
help *now*, and not tomorrow or Monday, it was clear from everything else
the mother told me that bf was going very badly - baby never satisfied,
difficult to settle, endless feeds w/o baby ever coming off the breast
spontaneously, extensive use of nipple shield since day 3, cracked and
bleeding nipples when shield not used, extensive use of pacifier. Mother
distraught. It was not a bit surprising the weight was what it was.
>We do weigh babies frequently and the vast majority are up to and beyond
>birth weight by one week. But weight is not viewed alone, it is only
>one piece of the puzzle.
I am unconvinced of the value of *frequent* weighing. No matter how often
weight is done, though, a 'satisfactory' weight gain is *not* a guarentee
of happy bf, and 'poor' weight gain in the first week (or even beyond) is
*not* a definite indicator for intervention with formula, pumping and SNS.
It is, though, an indicator that the situation needs attention of some
sort.
As Janie says, weight is one piece of the puzzle.
And we do need some decent baseline research that demonstrates the value
(or otherwise) of frequent, or infrequent, weighing...and some good idea
of what the spectrum of normal might be.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:45:56 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: regain birthwt
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>I'm just saying that waiting until 2 weeks out may affect long term milk
>supply because of poor removal early on, or baby gets some really poor
>patterns of sucking ingrained or mom just simply gets discouraged and
>switches to bottles because baby doesn't seem satisfied etc, etc. I'm
>just saying that weight, used appropriately, gives us a good idea in the
>early days whether or not effective milk transfer is happening.
I agree with all that, Pat, truly I do, but here we feel a 2 week
'window' is allowable *if the baby and mother are feeding happily* or
looking as if they are getting there and improving day by day.
Trouble is, as I have indicated in other posts, too many HPs here are now
so relaxed about weight gain they allow poor feeding to persist. They look
at the weight, and nothing else...and because they want to get away from
the idea that a bottle of formula is the answer to everything, they ignore
poor weight gain. Now that would not be so bad if they knew to look for
effective feeding signs elsewhere....but they *do not know what on earth
to look for* , and even if they did, they are even less informed about what
to do to fix it. So what do they do? They don't look, they don't ask and
they don't listen.
<sigh>
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:22:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: ifab <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Help request for mom w teething infant
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I need some suggestions to offer a mom that called me Friday. She has an
8 mo old with 4 teeth that are distroying her nipples. She is "very"
small breasted and has already tried repositioning ( and now has little
sores all around her nipples instead of in just one area) and using
lansinoh toheal. It is not the teeth on the bottom causing the pain as
they are covered by the tongue. As she has been nursing for 8 mo with
little problem, I don't positioning is the problem here. Limiting the
nursing so he doesn't "play" isn't the issue as the pain described as
rubbing is through out the nursing session. She wishes to continue
nursing but would like some way to deal with pain / nipple damage. I
suggested ice at beginning of feed because it seemed she tried everything
else I would have suggested and I was able to offer little else. I told
her I would get back to her with more suggestions as soon as I found some.
Warmly, Ilene Fabisch, Brockton, MA
"Each day is a blank canvas waiting for our unique brushstrokes to create
a masterpiece."
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:22:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: ifab <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bf and ADHD
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Was trying to hold off responding but....
I have a son that was bf for 3+ years and has ADD. Yes, there is a
genetic predisposition in this case.
I have conversed with many LLL leaders though that have bf for an
extended period of time and have children that are very bright but have
ADD (ADHD). I don't think I believe in any link here except for the fact
that parenting style (a la LLL) may have benefitted these children so
that their ADD is not something that becomes a negative focus/obstacle
but rather an issue to be dealt with and positive characteristics
emphasized. I didn't say that very well but I'm sure you get my gist.
Warmly, Ilene Fabisch, Brockton, MA
"Each day is a blank canvas waiting for our unique brushstrokes to create
a masterpiece."
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:23:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jennie Elmaleh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Smoking and breastfeeding
Dear Staci,
First of all good luck in your accrediation and work as a La Leche League
Leader!
You asked about cigarette smoking and it's effect on breastfeeding. There
are numerous sources for information about this. One is the La Leche League
International Breastfeeding Answer Book. On page 512, it clearly explains
how smoking lowers prolactin levels in nursing mothers, how it can
interfere with the milk ejection reflex,etc. It is suggested that if a
mother decides not to quit smoking, that she at least try to smoke
immediately after breastfeeding, so that by the next feed the level of
nicotine in her milk will be as low as possible. I won't quote the whole
thing here- I suggest that you look it up in the book - if you don't have
one yet you can ask another LLLleader for it. Other sources would be
"Breastfeeding and Human Lactation" by Jan Riordan and Kathleen G Auerbach
( in the 1993 edition pp 368-369 and p 87) and in Ruth Lawrence's
"Breastfeeding for the Medical Profession (1989 edition pp 408-409 and
296). Good luck and happy helping!
Sincerely, Jennie Elmaleh
Area Professional Liaison (APL)
La Leche League Israel
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:35:50 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: t glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breastmilk intolerance stats
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>if one in twenty babies cannot tolerate their mother's milk, doesn't it seem
>odd that we don't know anything about it in our community (never seen this
>mentioned anywhere, lawrence, riordan and auerbach, etc.) and that the human
>race has SURVIVED? come on now.
I'm not a geneticist, but I thought there was something called a
"Black Gene" or a "Death Gene" or something-- where if more than 2-3%
of a population is unable to carry out a process necessary to
survival, the entire population will die out. Does this ring a bell
with anyone? (I remembering studying it in college genetics, but
can't recall the exact name.)
This is why I put *no* faith in stats like the one above-- it would
seem to me that humans would be extinct by now if 1 in 20 babies were
unable to be *fed* properly.
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:45:12 -0400
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Books
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One of the neat things about Lactnet is how well read our group is. I
appreciate names of books I haven't heard about. Thanks to all who have
sent interesting titles of books and articles lately. Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: regain birthwt
Comments: To: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
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Oh Laurie, I don't know. From what Heather added on etc. I just thought I
wasn't clear enough. and the answer, as we all know, is not add formula at
the first sign of lag, but as Jack says - Fix the Breastfeeding! I just
think the sooner we recognize there may be a problem, the sooner it can be
fixed - whatever needs to be adjusted. I just feel that sometimes the
mother is given too long to figure it out on her own because we have this 2
week # in mind. Then she has all these feelings of inadequacy, guilt,
discouragement etc. In our US culture it is such a vulnerable time and mom
is generally hanging out there totally on her own, no support. I think it
would be different in a culture where BF is the norm. Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
Sorry about your week, I was really thrilled to see two "older" (10-11 mo)
olds nursing in the office this week. Even did one "sort of" exam as much
as I could while baby was in mom's lap, latched on. We all know things can
change, we just get so tired of working and waiting. That's why I liked
those good news stories a few mo ago. We need some "feel good" stuff on
Lactnet from time to time to keep our spirits up and keep us focused on
what we really want to eventually happen. Part of it is because an LC's
/LLLL's/peer counselor's etc. job is usually SO problem oriented. Happy
Saturday, may good things happen for all of us! Like rain in dry SNJ.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:53:32 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: insufficient milk case
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But while knowing the
> weights was useful, and a clear indicator that this mother and baby need
> help *now*, and not tomorrow or Monday, it was clear from everything
else
> the mother told me that bf was going very badly - baby never satisfied,
> difficult to settle, endless feeds w/o baby ever coming off the breast
> spontaneously, extensive use of nipple shield since day 3, cracked and
> bleeding nipples when shield not used, extensive use of pacifier. Mother
> distraught. It was not a bit surprising the weight was what it was.
Dear Heather, you're right, we wouldn't need weights in this clearly
dissatisfied baby and sore mom. I see the use of pacifiers from the
beginning as a problem. Made one mom promise not to use it last week. If
baby wanted to suck - nurse. 4 oz in 4 days. Amazing! Sad that the
average HCP in US doesn't see early pacifier use as a red flag. Sincerely,
Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:57:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: regain birthwt
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> so relaxed about weight gain they allow poor feeding to persist. ........
> Now that would not be so bad if they knew to look for
> effective feeding signs elsewhere....but they *do not know what on
earth
> to look for* , and even if they did, they are even less informed about
what
> to do to fix it. So what do they do? They don't look, they don't ask and
> they don't listen.
Well said! Unfortunately we don't seem to know how to teach what
"effective feeding" is. :-( Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:35:45 -0400
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From: "Beth E. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ADHD reference
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Kathy wrestled with a keyboard and this emerged:
> As far as I am aware, there has been only one study published on ADHD that
> included infant feeding as a variable and they found that their ADHD cases
> had a lower frequency of "ever breastfed" than the controls and that among
> those who were breastfed, the cases had a lower average duration of
> breastfeeding than the controls. Both of these differences were highly
> statistically significant.
Well, I just have to throw my 2 cents into the fray--wait, they were
here just a minute ago! Where did I put them?
I've seen an up to 80% inheritance rate quoted for ADH Disorders, so
I think it's safe to say mode of feeding isn't causal, but I'm positive it
does have an impact on expression of the traits. Think about it.
Optimum brain development can't hurt. ;-) Also, ADD/HD kids tend
to do better when they have attentive parents (no pun intended) who
actually are connected with their kids. Breastfeeding does tend to
foster that intimacy better. When you have parents that are sensitive
to what's going on, whether there has been a dx or not, you have
fewer secondary behavior problems.
> It is clear that in the US, ADHD shows up in clusters geographically and
> is increasing in incidence, both suggesting that it is not "simply" a
> genetic condition, though clearly there are genetic predispositions.
A function of increased awareness perhaps? We now have several
subtypes of ADH Disorders identified, and increasing recognition of
how it is expressed differently by girls (and women!). We also now
have ADD diagnostic and treatment centers that are facilitating dx in
the areas these centers serve.
> and then there are children who literally bounce off the walls
> and can't concentrate long enough to read a complete sentence, or learn to
> do Tae Kwan Do, or anything that requires listening to someone else give
> directions.
OK, Kathy, now you're getting personal! She climbs on the table,
not the wall, and she takes kajukenbo karate, not Tae Kwon Do! But
she has to look at her neighbor in class to see the command she
just missed and she's the only one picking at the floor when the
Professor is talking!
> It may be that kids start out with genetic or early uterine
> environmental predispositions to ADHD, which are then made worse by not
> getting breast milk, or not for long enough.
A big factor in my continuing to nurse our 4 year old, who is showing
early symptoms of his daddy's Generalized Anxiety Disorder. With
behavior modification now and continued nursing (hardly any milk left
now but the cuddles count) perhaps he won't have to be on meds for
life. <sigh>If only I had known with my first two kids what I know
now.
Regards,
Beth Johnson, CBE, ICCE, doula
Springfield, MA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:30:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 8 month old with sharp teeth
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With respect to the 8 month old with 4 teeth (2 top, 2 bottom, I suppose) --
where the top ones are tearing up mom's nipples -- have you actually seen
this baby? Some deciduous incisors (baby front teeth) have extremely sharp
points -- the incisors usually have 3 or 4 little bumps on the edge, which
help the teeth cut through the gums. These bumps usually wear off pretty
quickly to leave a smooth surface across the tooth. Some children have
extremely sharp and pointed bumps, however, and if this baby is not getting
much in the way of solids, or chewing on toys and wooden blocks, etc., then
the sharp bumps may not be wearing away like they usually do. It is
possible to take the baby to a dentist and have the sharp points filed down
-- it just takes a few minutes, no anesthesia necessary. I hesitate to
suggest that she do it herself with a nail file, but that's essentially what
the dentist will do. Or she can just give the baby some nice wooden blocks
to chew on for a few days and see if that does the trick.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:56:40 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: What should the mother do after the baby is born?
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Someone wrote:
>Michel Odent, the French male obstetrician who has decided there
>shouldn't be male obstetricians, shows a slide of a woman sitting
>cross-legged right after birth, newborn cradled in her arms, looking
>glowingly up at her partner. His comment: "She should be looking at
>the baby."
I find this comment VERY interesting. If you watch films of natural
childbirth (I'm thinking here specifically of "Gentle Birth Choices" and the
new Suzanne Arms video) and you watch very carefully, many mothers do NOT
look at their baby immediately after birth. In fact, the primary expression
on their faces seems to be "Hallaluyeah, it's over, and I'm still alive"
rather than "Oh look, here's the baby." They look at the midwife, or their
partner, or even just off into space, or close their eyes. Everyone else
may be focused on the baby -- the mothers seem not to be, not right at
first. And in Brigitte Jordan's book "Birth in Four Cultures" she talks at
some length about how among the Mayan women of the Yucatan pennisula, it is
the delivery of the placenta which is the highlight of the birth -- not the
delivery of the baby. Everyone holds their breath and anxiously awaits the
delivery of the placenta -- ignoring the baby at first -- and then they all
inspect the placenta, and only once the placenta has successfully come out
and seems to be complete, THEN they turn their attention to the baby.
Whereas in the US, most people focus on the baby and pay no attention to the
delivery of the placenta -- many parents never even see the placenta in US
hospital births, and don't want to see it, and place no significance on it.
In watching "Baby Story" on the Learning Channel, which mostly shows highly
interventionist US hospital births, women often do not focus on the baby at
first, either.
I guess I'm just saying that WHO the mother looks at after the baby is born
may depend a lot on her culture and her individual experiences, and I don't
think there is any evidence to support the idea that she "should" be looking
at the baby rather than at her partner.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:52:34 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: re Help request for mom w teething infant-Ilene
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Ilene,
This has happened to me with a two of my children. What did work was
repositioning but not how most would think. For me and perhaps your mom it
was as if baby's forehead was too close to my breast and the chin away from
the breast so that the upper teeth was pushing down on my nipple. (I hope I
can explain this :) ) Have her try: If baby is nursing on the left side
have her slide the baby's body a half inch or inch toward her right side.
This moves the chin closer to the breast and takes the pressure off of the
nipple where baby's upper teeth are. Of course reverse it for nursing on the
right side...move baby's body a bit toward moms left. I had to do this after
baby was latched. It did make a huge improvement.
I think the problem comes from the baby grows and we scoot their upper body
up so that their bottom "sits" on our lap while nursing because they do get
heavy as they grow. For some of us that makes them really to tall to sit
without bending their faces into our breasts.
I hope this helps,
Belinda Bohnert, Nursing Matters Breastpump Sales & Rental, Indianapolis
Indiana. Mother to 5 great children!
<< Limiting the
nursing so he doesn't "play" isn't the issue as the pain described as
rubbing is through out the nursing session. She wishes to continue
nursing but would like some way to deal with pain / nipple damage. I
suggested ice at beginning of feed because it seemed she tried everything
else I would have suggested and I was able to offer little else. I told
her I would get back to her with more suggestions as soon as I found some.
>>
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:21:37 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hospital practices
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Louise Dumas wrote:
< I was sad to read other posts specifically stating to
absolutely keep mothers and newborns away from any nurse....or any
hospital... Just remember our countries are sooooo different in terms of
perinatal services....and not all professionals are bad... and not all
hospitals are doing badly ...>
<So please, we shall try to focus on educating everyone towards a bf
culture but without pointing to any particular group....I find it
demotivating...since everyone is doing the best he/she can to promote.>
So well said, Louise. After all, in many cases such as p.c. feedings,
while the LC and others view it as hospital or professional
mismanagement, for years, all the HCP has been trying to do at that
moment in time is follow Rule # 1 - Feed the baby.
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio
Respectful, continuing education, and verbal public appreciation for
small improvements follows the old adage "Honey catches more flies than
vinegar." It has been said that teachers need to think of themselves as
fountains because 95% of all they try to teach often goes down the drain!
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:35:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HCPs and BF not going well
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Heather wrote:
- too often, HPs are *too
relaxed* about bf that's not going well in the first days and weeks.
This quote came from the insufficient milk thread, but can apply accross
the board - when I read this I think of docs - and the reason they seem
too relaxed is that they DON'T recognize what they are seeing - either
because they haven't been taught about BF or just haven't had enough
exposure to it.
example: misinterpreting the "always at the breast because he can't get
enough milk" baby for a little fellow with a hearty appetite that just had
a slow start...
Gail
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:53:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: what mom looks at after baby is born
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yes, I left off "should"
KD notes that this is culture dependent - good reminder.
The description of the picture leaves me with the same thought as Dr. Odent
however.
I only remember looking at my daughter after she was born - there was a
kazillion other humans in the room but her face was the one I wanted to
stare at. I also recall being "surprised" that I didn't "recognize" her
face and I remember saying to my husband, "She doesn't look like anyone we
know". [As it turns out, she has features from both sides of the family,
actually]
Gail
Gail S. Hertz, MD, IBCLC
Resident, Dept. of Pediatrics
PSGHS Children's Hospital
Hershey PA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:57:32 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: HCPs and BF not going well
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]@PSUYORK.cac.psu.edu>
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Gail wrote:
> the reason they seem
>too relaxed is that they DON'T recognize what they are seeing - either
>because they haven't been taught about BF or just haven't had enough
>exposure to it.
True. But I think some of the reason is they have been half-taught about
bf...it's an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Here, the less helpful midwives and HVs know that timing feeds and
scheduling them to four-hourly or whatever is no good, and they also know
why (sort of).
But from that, they extrapolate that feeding endlessly round the clock with
a baby who is never satisfied is okay and normal - because you should 'feed
on demand' and if that demand is never met, then, well, tough
luck.....that's what bf is like.
Then the mother gets upset because she thinks her milk can't be good enough
- 'because I do nothing but try to feed him all day and night and he's
still unhappy most of the time.'
Unhappy, unsatisfying bf is *not normal* ( as we all know here)...but
because, as Gail says, HPs have not had enough exposure to what is normal,
mothers are expected to put up with it.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:00:07 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 8 month old with sharp teeth
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>Or she can just give the baby some nice wooden blocks
>to chew on for a few days and see if that does the trick.
Now *that* is a very good idea, Kathy! I can't wait for my next 'my baby's
teeth are hurting me call' ....it's always a relief to get something you
can answer with something simple and practical : ) (and so rare....!)
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:12:01 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Monique Schaefers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nursing to sleep, now MIL vents
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The following is part of an email I have permission to repost from a
newly pregnant mom who is nursing a 24 month old. Would any of you care
to comment on her case and/or contact her directly? I would appreciate
some help/info with this as I may be in this position in a month or so.
I've not enough experience I feel to really be of some help.
Her email is: [log in to unmask]
Thanks in advance for your knowledge, help, and support!
(SNIP)
> I went for my second prenatal appointment yesterday,
> and the doctor gave me a lecture on breastfeeding while I'm pregnant!
> "You're taking nutrients away from the baby...HOW many times are you
> nursing in a day???? Four times is WAY to much (little does she know it's
> many times more than that!)...and he's *NOT* sleeping through the night???"
> I told her that my 11 year old didn't sleep through the night till he was 7
> and I weaned him at 6 months. Shut her up for a minute...
>
> And to top this off, I
> have a mild bacterial vaginal infection which they prescribe Flagyl
> for...which shouldn't be used while nursing (I double-checked this).
> But, being the activist I've come to be :-), I called the office manager
> this morning and got a prescription that's ok with breastfeeding, and asked
> if their "weaning because you're pregnant" is an office policy or a
> particular doctor's opinion...it's not an opinion, I was told, but good
> medical advice.(SNIP)
--
Monique
Noah Reilly Schaefers 6/18/97
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:18:37 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Respecting informed choices
Good morning, Lactnetters,
The discussion is getting pretty interesting but I am not convinced after 35
years working in a hospital and married to an obstetrician that hospitals
are really bad places for mothers to give birth, or babies to start life.
We have a long way to go - but then we've come a long way, also. I know
that home births have come a long way from what they used to be when my
husband was born on the kitchen table in his parents small farm house after
which his mother bore the effects of that birth for a lifetime.
Not all doctors and nurses are unfeeling professionals who are incapable of
functioning as 'doulas'. Yesterday, I helped an obstetrician and two nurses
spend the morning bathing a stillborn baby, dressing her in a lovely baby
dress (purchased by the nurses), putting a little gold ring on her finger
(purchased by the Dr.) and helping the mother, father and eight siblings
hold and say goodbye to this little baby. We took pictures, made hand
molds, cried with them and tried to help the youngest understand something
that none of us understood.
Last week I helped a mother gently put her baby to breast for the first and
last time, as we shared a box of Kleenex. The baby had a problem
incompatible with life and died peacefully in her mother's arms, at her
breast, surrounded by those family members invited to come. Would it have
been better at home? I don't know, but I do know that in this case, it
wasn't possible.
I am a Lamaze certified childbirth educator, an RN from an NICU, and an
IBCLC. I have spent 35 years trying to make birth and breastfeeding within
the hospital setting be more human, humane and "natural" if you like that
term. However, to use epidurals as an example, I can tell you that all the
education in the world about the problems associated with epidurals, and
knowing all the other non-intervention, non-pharmaceutical tools for
dealing with a normal labor, does not convince the majority of mothers
experiencing pain not to have the epidural.
Even after careful education about risks, benefits, and exploring other
ways of dealing with normal labor, the bottom line is: many moms deliver
in the hospital specifically so they CAN have an epidural. Nobody (at least
in our hospital) stands around with the epidural kit in their hands
pleading with the mom to have one. This decision is still up to the couple,
and those who are advocates of home birth are just as negative about this
choice as the medical personnel tend to be about the decision to have a home
birth.
The same is true of breastfeeding. I am obviously a true supporter and
believer in breastfeeding, kangaroo care, mother's milk over ABM, etc. But
if, after careful explanation and education, a mother chooses to bottle feed
with ABM, I will bow to that decision and help her dry up. I may not like
her decision, and feel in my heart that it is not a good way to go from any
standpoint you look at, but it is not my choice to make. One cannot stand
over a mother and insist that she breastfeed (or take her folic acid, or
stop drinking during pregnancy, or put seat belts on her three year old, or
put the baby to bed on his back) Like all other health and human issues,
breastfeeding remains a personal and private choice which we can improve and
facilitate but not mandate.
My complaint is when a mother has chosen to breastfeed and either she,
herself, or the nurses, or her doctor, or a family member sabotage that
decision with poor advice and information.
Deanne (again)
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:58:58 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: One last post on ADHD
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The research by Stevens and Burgess and colleagues does find a range of
variation in expression of ADHD, and the "worst cases" shows other signs of
abnormal fatty acid metabolism such as dry skin and mucous membranes. It
may be that abnormal fatty acid metabolism has a genetic component, or
several genetic components -- AND an environmental component, or several
environmental components. Certainly being fed formula without DHA and
other polyunsaturated fatty acids would not help a child who already had
abnormal fatty acid metabolism. Rowland's research suggests environmental
toxins -- these may interact with "susceptible genotypes" to produce ADHD.
Before people get all defensive and say "Well, I breastfed my child for X
number of months or years and s/he still has ADHD" remember that as with
most diseases/conditions, breastfeeding or not breastfeeding is only one of
many factors. A child who was breastfed for many years and still has ADHD
(or autism, or diabetes, or multiple sclerosis, or asthma, or whatever) may
have been much worse if they had been formula-fed. We'll never know, since
we can't turn back the clock. But to say that there are some kids who were
breastfed and still end up with ADHD is NOT to say that there isn't some
relationship between lack of breast milk and the diagnosis of ADHD, or
between lack of breast milk and the severity of the condition.
Remember my analogy of the blocks and the string?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:55:41 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: AD/HD and breastfeeding
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If one takes the view that AD/HD or as Ed Hallowell MD prefers, attention
surplus disorder, can be functional in some times and places then it
wouldn't make sense to me that breastfeeding would reduce its severity.
Wouldnt it be beneficial for a member of a hunter gatherer culture to be
aware of multiple happenings in the environment? Don't want to miss your
babies cues while gathering or miss the sound of an approaching anamil while
nursing or like wise while hunting.
In a modern society an obsesive complusive person is not the one to parachue
behind enemy lines.
-Rob
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:03:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: men and lactation
Comments: To: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
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"Since we encourage frequent newborn feeding to establish supply
dividing the tasks between two parents would make it more difficult."
Yeah, but I've seen it work in lesbian couples sharing the nursing of one
baby. Never underestimate the power of a baby!
How about it, Rob - you're a new-again Dad? Would you want to feed your
baby, at your (presumably) hairy chest, with the SNS?
Cathy
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:07:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: birth videos
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Has anyone come across a good birth video that shows a birth followed by
immediate breastfeeding without commercials?
Also a question asked by nurses here that I wondered myself, Why are all
these moms in the videos naked?
When my wife and I attended a prenatal class before our first baby the
nurses showed a birth video with several births then told everyone they
didn't not need to be naked to deliver. I think some of the primagravida
moms were wondering.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:14:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TV Guide "hollywood graapevine" by Mark Schwed May 29, 1999
Comments: To: Proyecto Lacta <[log in to unmask]>
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My daughter in law found the article in TV guide saying that
"The folks over in HBO's Arliss >>>> were looking for a very special wom=
an
to play the commissioner of the WNBA. The actress had to be in her early=
thirties to forties and oh, one more thing: According to the call sheet,
'The actress must have had a baby in the past year and is currently
breast-feeding (sic). (Actress must be willing to breast-feed baby in a
scene.)' And the lucky lactating lady who landed the part: Shannon OHurl=
ey
("Copycat")"
HOORAY - don't tell me she's going to be a "bad" character! =
Now if we could only get the soaps to have the babies breastfeed instead =
of
disappear for weeks on end...
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, IBCLC, LLLL
Vacaville, CA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:17:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: men and lactation
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Cathy asks:
"How about it, Rob - you're a new-again Dad? Would you want to feed your
baby, at your (presumably) hairy chest, with the SNS?
Cathy"
No Cathy, I have no desire at all to do that. (BTW its not hairy).
Can't explain why but I don't.
Use an SNS? I had enough problem last night using a bottle. First off I find
it uncomfortable holding him in my arms for it. A sling or leaning against
the arm of the couch helps and secondly last night he become fanatically mad
as I tried. Turns out the nipple wasn't flowing.
I'd rather stick to something simple with him like watching the base ball
game and explaining a balk to him.
BTW I not usually at the computeron the weekend while my wife is on
maternity leave w/out her lap top but I had to stop byt he office to get
some antihistamines. (Formula fed you know)
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:23:25 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Being watched
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Elisheva says:
"And I am sure that the same feeling -- that when I am looking person A in
the
eye it is hard to focus on person B, even if person B is the newborn -- is
part of the reason that too many visitors are detrimental to bf, even if the
visitors are generally supportive."
That certainly was true for me - even when both person A and person B were
the newborns! It's the reason why I never nursed them at the same time, even
though certainly it would have been more "efficient" to do so. And in the
early weeks, with all my babies, I couldn't do anything at all except gaze
at them while I nursed; later, I was able to read while nsg, but only
lightweight stuff. That total monopolization of my attention was one of the
first surprises early motherhood brought me.
But I think people are probably different. Elisheva and I (and I bet lots of
others on this list) are probably pretty intense "people people" - when I'm
paying attention to you, I'm really paying attention to you, and it's hard
for me to split it. It's why I hate crowds, even of dear friends, and I find
it very distressing to be in conversational groups. I can easily focus on
multiple tasks at a time, but not multiple people.
But I know not everyone is like that. My husband doesn't pay any closer
attention to one person than he does to 5 or 6 (but can only do 1 "thing" at
a time). For people like him, who operate more by *rules* than by instinct,
and with less of a person-to-person compulsion, perhaps it wouldn't be so
distressing or disruptive to simultaneously nurse baby A and chat with
visitors. And it seems to me that many women I've worked with wouldn't do as
well at all without company, despite my constantly urging them to cut down
on the traffic flow. They draw strength and "oomph" from others, and seem
inclined to mope if left alone.
Another thing not to have a rule about, maybe...
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:22:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fiona Coombes
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Fiona,
Could you email me privately please. Everytime I try to Email you it bounces
back.
Thanks,
Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:38:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 12 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-14)
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In a message dated 6/12/99 10:23:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I find this comment VERY interesting. If you watch films of natural
childbirth (I'm thinking here specifically of "Gentle Birth Choices" and the
new Suzanne Arms video) and you watch very carefully, many mothers do NOT
look at their baby immediately after birth. In fact, the primary expression
on their faces seems to be "Hallaluyeah, it's over, and I'm still alive"
rather than "Oh look, here's the baby." >>
I always find it funny in the Medela video, the MD is holding the baby upside
down, the baby is naked and covered with birth "goo" and everyone is saying
"oh he looks just like Dad"!!
Barb Whitehead, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:53:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sharp teeth and tongue-ties
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> It is
>possible to take the baby to a dentist and have the sharp points filed down
>-- it just takes a few minutes, no anesthesia necessary. I hesitate to
>suggest that she do it herself with a nail file, but that's essentially what
>the dentist will do.
After our 2 year old chipped his teeth twice, it never occurred to us
to take him to the dentist. But nursing was intolerable. One of us
pinned him to the floor and the other tackled him with sandpaper.
Maybe if he'd been anesthetized (with a general) he'd have yelled
less, but the yelling was clearly for the indignity of it all. I've
since encouraged the (successful) use of an emery board. It takes
seconds.
Now, if you want to clip a tongue-tie around here, sometimes it's a
little more complicated. The last one I saw was spotted in the
hospital, confirmed by the nurse practitioner and then me, clipping
was decided on by the parents, who then made an appointment with the
ped to get a referral to the oral surgeon, who saw them for a
consultation prior to the clipping, which took place the following
week, when he had operating room, recovery room, staff, and 45 minute
set-up time all ready to go. Total time elapsed - 4 weeks. Makes me
want to keep a fingernail sharpened... On the other hand, the whole
thing was *so* ludicrous I'm sure we can tighten the ship for next
time...
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:40:03 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Michael Reeder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tummy to tummy
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Lori, =
I like this saying. I believe that it is from the NCT material. =
Chest to chest, =
Chin to Breast =
Tschuss,
Merilee =
Basel, CH
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:08:12 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: men nursing
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I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty high percentage of dads would sort
of like to try nursing the baby. Why not? It's obviously a cool
experience, and they're not completely lacking in nurturing impulses.
I'll bet if they fessed up, they wouldn't be totally averse to keeping
the baby happy at breast until mom gets back. But I suspect it's an
impulse they feel they need to keep deeply buried in our
belch-and-scratch-yourself macho culture. Kathy D? Any
cross-cultural stories?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY, who'll ask her DH as soon as
he gets home...
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:53:03 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Respecting informed choices
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Deanne,
>The discussion is getting pretty interesting but I am not convinced after 35
>years working in a hospital and married to an obstetrician that hospitals
>are really bad places for mothers to give birth, or babies to start life.
There are pros and cons. It is *not* the right place to give birth if
the mother doesn't want to be there, that's the point. We are not so
different from the animals, and if an animal is frightened and insecure,
they cannot labour effectively. I spent the 27 hours of my first labour
having a panic attack because I am *terrified* of being a patient in a
hospital. I hated every single second of it and it was torture for me.
In total, I was there 3 days, and I was utterly miserable.
Where I live, the *planned* homebirth rate is 14%, but we have huge
numbers of women having unplanned homebirths, basically because they
don't want to go to hospital, they've been talked out of it and then in
labour, they wait too long before heading off. My own sister made it to
the hospital with only 15 minutes to spare.
There are risks to hospital birth too, including the very real and
scarey risk of hospital acquired infections.
>
>Not all doctors and nurses are unfeeling professionals who are incapable of
>functioning as 'doulas'.
Is that the point? Surely the real point is that many women actually
labour more easily in familiar surroundings where they feel in control?
It doesn't matter how friendly they are - they are a friendly *stranger*
and the place is alien to the woman. For my homebirths, I had two
wonderfully professional, NHS midwives from the local hospital, in whom
I had complete confidence. Homebirth is not the same as unassisted birth
- most women have extremely professional and skilled birth attendants.
>Last week I helped a mother gently put her baby to breast for the first and
>last time, as we shared a box of Kleenex. The baby had a problem
>incompatible with life and died peacefully in her mother's arms, at her
>breast, surrounded by those family members invited to come. Would it have
>been better at home?
I don't know that case, but I do know a woman who planned to have her
baby with serious problems at home. She said she could not contemplate
him dying in a hospital, but needed to have him at home, surrounded by
her family. I don't think hospital is the best place for anyone to die -
ask any terminally ill patient.
>However, to use epidurals as an example, I can tell you that all the
>education in the world about the problems associated with epidurals, and
>knowing all the other non-intervention, non-pharmaceutical tools for
>dealing with a normal labor, does not convince the majority of mothers
>experiencing pain not to have the epidural.
I don't think the majority of women want epidurals, not in their heart
of hearts. When asked, I believe most say they would like a natural
birth. But it's hard to cope with labour in an alien place surrounded by
strangers. If women are requesting an epidural in labour, having
previously expressed reservations, I think something else is going on.
Maybe it's the culture? A common reason I hear for women wanting
homebirths is because they are afraid they will "crack" and ask for an
epidural if one is available. And I honestly don't think most women are
informed of the true risks of epidural - when I discuss such things on
the Net or IRL, women usually react horrified that they didn't know
these things. Just MHO.
>Nobody (at least
>in our hospital) stands around with the epidural kit in their hands
>pleading with the mom to have one.
Your hospital is rather different to many, then. Many women have related
to me how hospital staff have been disparaging of their stated wish to
avoid drugs, have pushed drugs on them or even bullied them into
accepting them. I was persuaded, against my better judgement to accept
Pethidine in my first labour and my sister was persuaded to have an
epidural in hers. It has been my observation that often HCPs don't know
how to deal with a woman in pain, and want to be seen to "rescue" her
from it. I also notice a great lack of psychological care of women in
labour. This is in the UK, ofcourse.
> This decision is still up to the couple,
>and those who are advocates of home birth are just as negative about this
>choice as the medical personnel tend to be about the decision to have a home
>birth.
That sounds a little like the "breastfeeding nazis" type argument to me.
Advocates of homebirth might be antagonistic to the idea of epidurals
because there are a host of problems associated with it; there are no
side-effects that I am aware of from *not* having pain relief in labour.
And btw, I don't know a single homebirth advocate in UK who would try
and actively persuade a woman into homebirth who wasn't already
expressing an interest in it - anymore than HCPs really try and "bully"
women into breastfeeding.
>My complaint is when a mother has chosen to breastfeed and either she,
>herself, or the nurses, or her doctor, or a family member sabotage that
>decision with poor advice and information.
Likewise, women get persuaded/tricked into having hospital births, when
they know it isn't the right decision for them.
--
Anna H. (Mummy to Emma, 17-1-95, Alice, 11-9-96, Samuel, 25-4-98)
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"
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http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:27:49 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: birth videos
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Rob,
>Has anyone come across a good birth video that shows a birth followed by
>immediate breastfeeding without commercials?
I think it's shown on Desmond Moris's "Baby Watching", although that
isn't a birth video per se. Fascinating program, however :-)
>Also a question asked by nurses here that I wondered myself, Why are all
>these moms in the videos naked?
Because you get hot when you give birth, and lose all your inhibitions.
When I had my first baby in hospital, I threw my nightie off and it
landed on the foetal monitor. I couldn't bear anything touching me and
it seemed the logical thing to do. My bra ended up hanging off the
(unused) IV stand. I think most mothers having an active birth will tend
to strip off (at least according to midwife friends of mine).
>When my wife and I attended a prenatal class before our first baby the
>nurses showed a birth video with several births then told everyone they
>didn't not need to be naked to deliver. I think some of the primagravida
>moms were wondering.
But clothes get in the way and birth is hardly the time to worry about
modesty! :-) Put it this way, how many people have sex with all their
clothes on?
--
Anna H.
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http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:57:29 -0400
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: regain birthwt
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I think sometimes pediatricians can find themselves between a rock and a
hard place on this "slow gain" issue. If they assume that it is just a slow
start..we will think "Ha! Why didn't he get more aggressive?" and if they
assume need for aggressive mngmt. we will say "See! Not supportive/
undermining of breastfeeding." I try to remember that they really don't
know all that we do about milk production and transfer..that is why we are
the IBCLCs.
Problem, really, is "When to refer to an IBCLC." That is what they need to
know because, to be honest, this recognizing of specific feeding
abnormalities requires a high level of clinical expertise...the sort that
one acquire by seeing hundreds of babies at the breast each year. Most peds
would do themselves a real favor by having an LC in their office....to take
the burden off of themselves for these difficult calls.
A similar problem happens in hospitals in the first 24 hours when nurses
get confused about what is a normal sleepy baby and what is a problem that
must be addressed. Sometimes I get really aggrevated with all these
referrals "He still won't latch and he's eight hours old." So, I
think...what is the problem? Call me if he is still this way tomorrow.
However, I remind myself that the policy does say that babies must eat at
least every six hours and that the nurse involved may not have my level of
experience with ferreting out the various reasons why babies eat poorly on
day one. I certainly don't want her to jump in with a bottle! I know she
will face the pediatrician in the AM if she lets baby go all night without
feeding. Better to get me in there to express some colostrum into baby's
mouth and write a note saying why I think this kid won't eat and why I
think it will get better with a little patience (by the way, about 95% of
the time it does get better without intervention.)
So, to go back to the original issue of peds who are not aggressive
enough...I try to be s/w sympathetic...remembering that this really is not
their field of expertise and they can't always see what is soooo very
obvious to me.
Susan keith-hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
Mercy Health Partners
Cincinnati
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:01:39 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: afebrile painless breast abcess not responding to antibiotics
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Esther,
Yes, I have seen these encapsulated abcesses that start as a full blown
mastitis and, after Abx. seem to wall off. Wonder if related to certain
organisms. Some organisms have a habit of walling off this way. TB comes to
mind. Anyone else suspect it could be organism related???
Susan
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:05:10 -0400
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<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pump returns
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I don't know about the legal aspects related to pump returns but...how
interesting....the W__-M-___ company again. With their history on not
allowing breastfeeding in stores and not printing photos of babies at
breast...how interesting that they now won't accept pump returns. What
gives here?
Susan
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:22:03 -0400
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Doulas, was Respecting informed choices
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Deanne wrote:
>Not all doctors and nurses are unfeeling professionals who are incapable of
>functioning as 'doulas'.
Okay, I'm with you on the first part: Not all doctors and nurses are
unfeeling professionals. But whether they're capable of functioning as
doulas is another matter entirely. Perhaps they're *capable* (a few of them,
anyway, though none that I personally know), but can they do their jobs as
doctors and nurses *and* function as doulas?
The doula's role is to mother the mother. How many doctors and nurses
would do the things my doula did at my daughter's birth:
- Visit with me several times prior to the birth, not examining me, but
getting to know me and my family, offering empowering alternatives, learning
about who I was and what my feelings and fears about birth and the
postpartum period, and helping me write my birth plan as an advocate of
*me*?
- Be with me every moment from the time I was in labor, talking to me,
offering gentle encouragement in the *precise* fashion I needed (which she
could do so well because she had listened so closely to me in the weeks and
months before), running interference, changing music, getting cold washrags
and putting them just where I needed them on the back of my neck, helping
direct the shower spray onto my lower back, making sure my mother and son
were doing okay with their own fears, ...?
- Stay with me for two hours after I'd given birth, again listening to me,
helping me to process the enormity of the experience, and talking with all
the members of my family?
- Speak with me on the phone several times over the next weeks, offering
support and encouragement with breastfeeding while I was having major
problems?
- Come to my home the following week with flowers for me, a gift for my son,
and a written account of my daughter's birth?
I find it extremely hard to believe that any doctor or nurse could give that
kind of gentle mothering and perform the other duties of his or her job.
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96) -- both born in
hospitals, one with a doula ... and what a remarkable difference!
Westerville, OH
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:48:46 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Doulas, was Respecting informed choices
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The research shows that there are clear differences between what can be
accomplished by one to one nurses vs. doulas. No, any RN cannot function as
a doula. There are some RNs (myself included) who do function as doulas
however, they must be clearly in the doula (not the RN) role and must be
trained as doulas....not just as OB nurses. Most important, they must buy
into the normalcy of birth.
Susan Keith-hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC, ALACE trained doula
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:03:43 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Rubin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: naked in videos
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<< Also a question asked by nurses here that I wondered myself, Why are all
these moms in the videos naked?
I always tell my clients that if everyone was fully clothed in the films
that they wouldn't be as educational to the clients watching. I prepare them
ahead of time with this comment so that they are not taken aback by the
exposure in breastfeeding films, and use the opportunity to talk about how it
is possible to nurse discretely. I've never had anyone question childbirth
films, but the same answer could apply.
Kathy in NJ (back after several months absence due to grad school--now in my
last course to earn my MSN!!)
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:16:42 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: positioning tummy to tummy
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I have considered the vocabulary we use to teach latch on and find it to be
inexact and confusing. I really am enjoying the conversation about
positioning and hearing what other people use to try to communicate these
ideas. I use the phrase: baby cumberbund. A cumberbund is worn higher
than a belt, it is wide, and it wraps snuggly around the body.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:00:58 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bullying tactics???
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Anna says,
<< Likewise, women get persuaded/tricked into having hospital births, when
they know it isn't the right decision for them. >>
Oh, sort of like the OB that said to me when he found out I was having a home
birth (mind you, I worked as the MCH educator at that hospital), "Well, I
hope you hemorrhage, and I hope I'm in the ER when you are brought in." And
the VP of nursing who called me AT HOME and told me that if I went through
with having this baby at home, that I could be well assured that I would
NEVER get a job in that hospital beyond what I was already doing. (I had
foolishly thought that perhaps I wanted to be the director of MCH).
I had the baby at home, and the night of the birth there was a terrific
rainstorm. A tree was hit by lightning and a huge branch fell on the VP's
car, effectively smushing it.
Justice was served.
Jan Barger, RN, MA< IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:31:42 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "the profession"
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Yikes! Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my posting about the role of "the
profession"!
Carol B., I agree *totally* with what you said! I don't think I meant that
lactation consulting should be a "background profession"? (Did I say that?
If I did, it's not quite what I meant.) I guess what I was thinking was
that, in an ideal world, we'd do ourselves out of our jobs.
We *need* the science, every single speck of it, and more and more research.
And we need the knowledge to be spread around more, so that (for example) we
don't have peds telling young mothers that "your baby is allergic to your
milk" just because the ped doesn't know what the problem is and/or doesn't
have the time to work on fixing it. Why on earth should anyone come out of
however many years of medical school & residency, etc., specialize in peds
or family practice, and have no better answer to give to a nursing mother
than that? So WE (LCs) need to keep researching, and teaching, and sounding
our own horns, and sharing what we know, at both ends of the spectrum - with
the "medical professionals", who *need* to know more of what we know, and
with the mothers, who need our skills to put their plans to BF into action.
And I don't think that BFing is the sole province of women, although I guess
I could reasonably be accused of coming pretty close. Or that feminism means
"exclusion of men". I do think feminism requires looking outside the model
or the hierarchy established by a male-dominated profession; that it doesn't
necessarily mean just slotting ourselves and our work with mothers & babies
into a position that's already sitting there on the organizational chart". I
think that one of the roles of the LC "profession" is to *change* the model
of caring for families, so that "we" (LCs) are assisting "them" (parents) to
do what "they" want to do.
No, I don't really think we should just go away, and I sure wish that when
we were needed more "other" health professionals would refer to us - and
sooner rather than later!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:18:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BF and guilt-need Lacdoc
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I had a meeting with my medical director last week about the prenatal
lactation education program I have developed for them. Overall, she was very
positive and will send out letters to the OB we work with about it. Nearing
the end of the meeting the subject of guilt was brought up. It seems that at
the last meeting (I was not present) a doc related a private conversation to
the group regarding formula. Once I explained that that was a private
conversation (and may I say somewhat heated conversation) that the medical
director felt misled by the other doc. I also related that of the two
patients I felt that I had come onto a little strong to (one I even
apologized to) both were still happily seeing me. Then I read the minutes to
the this last Docs meeting and now I realize I have a bigger problem. The
minutes state,
" Chris Betzold is excellent at working with patients who are having
a problem breastfeeding. At times she comes on too strong that formula
poisons the baby. There seems to be a tendency to make patients feel
guilty if they don't breastfeed or stop breastfeeding. She (meaning
me) needs to convey to our patients that [the practice] encourages
breastfeeding without making our patients feel bad or guilty if they choose
not to breastfeed."
I think that this is a bigger problem than just one isolated conversation out
of context. I plan on presenting Dr. Jack's "BF and Guilt" as well as "How
to tell if your provider is BF friendly" I have been collecting tons of
research that I can pull out. But, I would really like some ideas on how to
handle this especially from the LacDocs. We will meet again to discuss this
on Monday the 14th. Thanks.
Christine Betzold MSN RNP CLE
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:29:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: realities of bf
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Janice:
my one concern is that a women will read and use some of the methods women
in the book have used and while it is fine that they have worked for these
women some are not ones I would choose or prefer ... is: vit e on the nipple
for healing...
Patricia
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:07:33 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: lethal gene theory
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Dear Friends:
The lethal gene theory says something like this: if there is a
failure in the reproductive cycle of more than 3% of a species, that species
doesn't survive. Can't remember the author. Warmly, Nikki
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:16:44 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judi Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Respecting informed choices
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Greetings. I have been reading Lactnet for about two weeks and finally am
brave enough to attempt to post. I really appreciated Deanne Frances's note.
As a nurse and LC, I often feel that we are not realistic in what we expect
mothers to want to do. In an imperfect world, many women choose medication
and practices that will potentially hinder breastfeeding. One reason I use
more pumps than I thought I ever would is to stimulate supply in women with
sleepy babies. I believe I need to offer my best to women in spite of some
of their choices. We all have much to learn from one another. Thanks, Judi
Hall
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:29:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Montano <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pump returns
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Laws on "health issue" returns vary by state. Crazily enough, here in
Connecticut we can't return bathing suits, panties, bras, or earrings, even
if never worn and with all tags on. (I don't know what pump return law in CT
is, though.) The rationalization is something like, anything that touches
the genitals, breast, or holes in body (i.e. ear lobes) is a health risk and
can't be re-sold to someone else.
Good luck on your quest and let us know what you find!
-----Original Message-----
From: Carolee Hall <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:26 PM
Subject: pump returns
>Dear Lactnetter,
>
>I'm sure this has been covered but I did not find it in the archives. I
>have been told that stores are legally obligated to accept pump returns.
>Here in Columbus GA we have a walmart that is refusing to accept pump
>returns for "health reasons." Can anyone tell me the legal position on
>this. Thanks for your help.
>
>Carolee Hall, ICCE, CD, LE
>
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:28:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Darlene A Breed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "granny"
Hello everyone,
I am happy to say I am finally back on Lactnet. Juno and Lactnet were
experiencing some difficulties and I was off for over a month. I did
read some posts in the archives, but not getting email from Lactnet was
very hard. I'm not used to checking my email and only have 3 or 4
messages a day. I did have withdrawal.
Anyway, I am only writing to say I too am a grandmother. I have a
beautiful 18 mo old granddaughter, who was breastfed and I must say
absolutely the light of my life. I also had the privilidge of being at
her birth because I worked in L&D for many years before actually becoming
an IBCLC.
I have been involved with helping breastfeeding mothers for 24 years this
coming September. My "baby" is 23 y.o. man. My other son is 29 y.o. and
the daddy of my granddaughter. I am old enough to be their mother.
Darlene Breed, RN, BSN, IBCLC
Worcester, MA (USA)
>Let's hear it, grannies, old and older! I feel like part of a
>cyber-village. And you all know - "It takes a village ........" Are
>many more of you out there? Shared wisdom counts, regardless of age!
>
>K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
>Dayton, Ohio
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:25:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: F/U Breastfeeding after therapeutic abortion
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Woman had AB yesterday. All went well as can be expected. She was mainly
worried how the procedure would affect her supply and really wasn't too
concerned about the drugs, figuring if moms bfeed after a general c/s then
she could after this.
She feels physically fine, went home and nursed and nursed and nursed as
much as that baby will let her.
Emotionally she's a bit frazzled, but was helped by a (thankfully) very
sensitive doctor who didn't chastize her for using LAM. The doctor told
her that it was just pure dumb luck and she should feel no more at fault
than if a pill or condom failed. Evidently she was really afraid (in
abscence of a more traditional birth control method) she'd be seen as a
careless woman using AB as birth control.
She has great family support, including from her husband and mother. She
should be fine, and reports she finds the bfeeding very healing.
Has plans to use condoms and spermicide until child is two when her dh will
likely get a vasectomy.
-Wendey (studying LC in Montreal where it's cool and calm after a scorching
hot gorgeous day).
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:43:19 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Monique Schaefers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: positioning tummy to tummy
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Written by Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
> I have considered the vocabulary we use to teach latch on and find it to be
> inexact and confusing. I really am enjoying the conversation about
> positioning and hearing what other people use to try to communicate these
> ideas.(SNIP)
While in the hospital after the birth of my son I was extremely confused
by the term *nipple sandwich*, as in make a *nipple sandwich*. I kept
thinking *how am I supposed to fold my nipple and over what?*. Very
confusing! It wasn't until he was almost 6 months old that I realized
the LC was trying to get me to use a *C hold*.
--
Monique
Noah Reilly Schaefers 6/18/97
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:47:34 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Drugs in labor
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Heather writes:
<< Many women have related to me how hospital staff have been disparaging of
their stated wish to avoid drugs, have pushed drugs on them or even bullied
them into
accepting them. >>
Sometimes even a weaker version of this amounts to the same thing. In my
first delivery, which took place in a hospital that might have been a great
place if I had needed tertiary care, staff were perfectly willing to "let" me
labor in pain, if that was what I prefered; and if not, well, an epidural was
available.
The notion that other kinds of support or pain relief would have been more
helpful never occured to them -- not because they were meanies, but because
the only kind of "pain relief" they had been exposed to was drugs.
I think a lot of women would have folded and taken whatever pain relief WAS
available -- and I wouldn't blame them, given those lousy choices.
Elisheva Urbas
NYC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:22:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: bf and guilt
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christine, what level of persuasion do your hospital docs and others use to
"convince" mothers to use car seats? here, all babies are required to leave
the hospital in a car seat, and there are programs to provide them to low
income families. i bet no one ever says "lets not make this family feel
guilty if they don't choose to use a car seat."
using this line of thinking, we would require that all babies leave the
hospital breastfeeding.
what line is taken about immunizations? (just an example, not to start a
debate). i bet they use all kinds of persuasion to get parents to do the
suggested immunizations. maybe you could suggest that breastfeeding be
endorsed to the same level as some of the other routine practices.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:15:33 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Have you ever "detailed" Docs re breastfeeding?
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Here is something that has been running around in my head for the last
few days. As I mentioned a couple weeks ago, I am starting my own
private practice, offering doula services and breastfeeding support.
Having managed my husband's FP office for many years when he first
started out, I am well aware of the "detailing" that takes place in
which drug company representatives call upon docs to tell them the last
news about the drug de jour. I've been toying with the idea of doing
something similar to get my business known in the local community and to
increase and perhaps rationalize the knowledge of breastfeeding in the
local docs offices, ie, staff and docs.
My questions include:
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of "marketing"?
If, so, what sorts of things have you used? Copies of articles from bf
literature? Booklets? Your own favorite tips?
If you haven't tried this but you work in a docs office, what would you
like to see given to docs and staff?
If you're doc what would you find helpful? What would you want to have
avoided?
Thanks to anyone who gives their 2 cents,
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
Of a Nurturing Nature
Educational and Support Services for the Childbearing Family
Minden, Nevada
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:46:04 +0930
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mrs BN Carney <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Dragon Hall
Subject: Re: bf and guilt
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[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> christine, what level of persuasion do your hospital docs and others use to
> "convince" mothers to use car seats? here, all babies are required to leave
> the hospital in a car seat, and there are programs to provide them to low
> income families. i bet no one ever says "lets not make this family feel
> guilty if they don't choose to use a car seat."
In Australia, babies must be in approved car restraints to leave the hospital.
> using this line of thinking, we would require that all babies leave the
> hospital breastfeeding.
>
> what line is taken about immunizations? (just an example, not to start a
> debate). i bet they use all kinds of persuasion to get parents to do the
> suggested immunizations. maybe you could suggest that breastfeeding be
> endorsed to the same level as some of the other routine practices.
In Australia, the mother can get a $200 'bonus' if at 18 months the baby has
been fully vaccinated.
Gitte
--
BN Carney @>-->-
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:05:07 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: The Curries <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Loosing hair.
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Hello everyone,
A Mum phone me to say that she had been breastfeeding for 3 months.
She tells me that her hair is falling out in bunches - do any of you have
any suggestion as to why this could be happening and what can she do about
it?
As promised I said I would keep you posted re the fiasco about the
wrong baby being put to the breast. The hospital held a disciplinary and
we were both given a written warning.(on our files for 6 months) I could
not attend the hearing as both my hubby and I have cerebral malaria (the
last time I had it my son Lorne fed right through it - used to climb up on
the bed a help himself!) Thanks once again for the incredible support from
you all - it really helped.
At the moment I have a Paed whipping my breastfed babies off the
breast because they have "Lactose Intolerance" - in fact the clinic sister
are doing the same now! Any advice? (I know what I'd like to do!)
Barbie Currie. Mpumalanga. South Africa.
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:29:01 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: giving birth naked
Rob asks: " Why are all
these moms in the videos naked?"
At a tangent, I have been reading "A Labour of Love" which is about parenting in
Britain 1900 - 1950 and was also a tv serial a few years ago. In there its
stated that working class women in that period, most of whom laboured and
birthed at home, did not want their husbands in at the birth *speicifically*
because they did not want to be seen naked. During their entire marriages these
couples would not see each other naked. This seems to be the legacy of the very
screwed up Victorian notions of modesty, and the body, which was forced on the
working classes during the 19th century and from which we still suffer.
These notions also impacted on the use of wet-nurses and favoured the use of
modified cow's milk and other foods instead, when choosing an alternative to
breastfeeding.
(Although -- I have just thought of this -- presumably the wife would see her
husband naked if he died before she did, when she was washing him before laying
him out -- does anyone know if the dead were washed naked?)
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, The Breastfeeding Network, UK
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:12:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Have you ever "detailed" Docs re breastfeeding?
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Dear Melinda, this sounds like a really good idea.
As an NP I would appreciate it if you came to see me, so I'd be aware of
you as a resource in the community.
I'd like to know what insurances you can take or is it cash?
I'd like a bunch of cards or folders with your info on them. To me, a
tri-fold, explaining who you are and what you can do for mom and baby,
family, with pertinent #s etc. would be most useful. If you make it up
on your own computer and copy inexpensively, it would also be easily
changeable as the need arises. (not like my 450 remaining cards that I now
have to change my area code on! - ack)
Then I would do this visiting, a few offices at a time on a regular basis,
like at least once a year, or every 6 mo. This year you could start out by
vss all in August - World BF Month :-). Take them a packet of reproducible
info, like on basics or working and nursing (Texas WIC has really nice
ones.) as a gift. Would help you build your business. It is easier to
throw a mailer in the circular file, than ignore a real life visitor. I'd
also check ahead and see what would be a good time to catch the HCP!
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:23:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Monique's situation
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi, my first thought is do you have to go to this particular group? Are
you limited by insurance or geography so that you can't change drs?
If you can change, talk to other mothers, interview drs. Find someone else
who is more in line with your beliefs.
I came to learn (the hard way) that we only have a few opportunities
(however many babies you ever have) to get this right. You don't need the
hassle of going to someone who may spoil this special experience for you.
If you can't change, write again and we'll work on that one.
Good luck, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:05:26 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - pump return
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The tactic of stores refusing to take pumps back has been tried at stores in
our area for years. It never works or lasts for long. My answer to moms
when they share this info with me is to tell them it isn't working (i.e. it
doesn't milk the breasts comfortable or well) and they want their money back.
These stores can always return them to the manufacturer. No one is asking
them to resell the pump. Hope this helps. Sue
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:44:58 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Drugs in labor
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Heather writes:
>
><< Many women have related to me how hospital staff have been disparaging of
>their stated wish to avoid drugs, have pushed drugs on them or even bullied
>them into
> accepting them. >>
Elisheva - it was Anna, not me, who wrote this.
I think she is sort of correct, though...but the out and out pushing and
bullying doesn't happen as often as she implies (in my experience, that
is).
Howvever the disparagment of choice to labour w/o drugs is quite common,
and childbirth educators are accused of making women feel guilty if they
change their minds and opt for drugs.
Hmmmm. Making women feel guilty....now just *where* have we heard that one
before ; )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:53:30 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: giving birth naked
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Giving birth *in hospital* naked would not appeal to me at all - and I am
not hung up about my body or nakedness, but I do like my privacy.
But hospital birth is, very often, not at all private - in many places
staff feel free to walk in and out of the room during labour without even
knocking, and the door might open out on to a corridor or other public
space.
You might as well labour and birth in Piccadilly Circus....
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:09:01 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: T Pitman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Drugs in Labour
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I am on the Maternity Care committee at our local hospital, and I hear the
staff members on that committee repeatedly state that they do not push
medication on labouring women, and that their epidural rates are high only
because women insist on having them.
Yet, when I am there as a doula, I see nurses frequently asking "do you want
the epidural yet?" (clear suggestion that she'll get it at some point, why
not now?) or making comments like "it's going to get a lot worse than this,
so you might want to think some more about that epidural." If the mother is
noisy - moaning or crying, as some women do in labour, the nurse will often
come and stand beside her and say "you sound like you're in a lot of pain,
maybe you need the epidural now."
When I was at a birth in another hospital, there were posters on all four
walls of the room called "Getting Your Epidural" that advised mothers that
the epidural was available to all mothers in labour, but that if the
anaesthetists were busy it might take a little time to arrange and so it was
best to request it early, before the pain became unbearable. I went around
and removed them all.
Teresa
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:18:34 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pump Returns
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As a retailer myself-- I would only accept pump returns IF the pump was still
in the original packaging. That way I would know for sure it had not been
used. This is the only way I know the pump was never used. If the package
looks as thou it had been tampered with I would not accept the return. I
cannot run the risk of re-selling something that is not hygenic, broken etc.
Babies R US does not accept returns either. Medela has stickers on the
packaging of all its retail oriented items (little Hearts stuff , I think)
that says in bright bold letters "This item cannot be returned...for health
reasons ". Something like that. ( I dont carry 'little hearts' but I have
seen the stickers).
BTW, retailers set their own return policy. There is no law stating a store
must accept returns of anything. Consumers should be aware of each stores
policies before buying.
Diane Barnes
Maternal Expressions--Metro-Detroit
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:26:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Loosing hair.
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A discussion of this topic occurred last week with medical doctors on the
Postpartum unit where I work. During pregnancy, you do not loose any hair.
When the pregnancy ends your body catches up with the process. Not to worry.
Kathy
Upstate, NY.
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:43:28 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lisa Boisvert-Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Guilt
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Snip:
>
> " Chris Betzold is excellent at working with patients who are having
> a problem breastfeeding. At times she comes on too strong that formula
> poisons the baby. There seems to be a tendency to make patients feel
> guilty if they don't breastfeed or stop breastfeeding. She (meaning
> me) needs to convey to our patients that [the practice] encourages
> breastfeeding without making our patients feel bad or guilty if they choose
> not to breastfeed."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I washed the dishes today, I was mulling over the notion of guilt and
decided, according to me, that guilt is a feeling that emerges within a
person when s/he he is not acting with integrity (wholeness), integrity
meaning with head, heart and hands in balance. If a person is out of balance
and behaving as such and experiences *guilt* when someone names the act
that provokes the guilty feeling, it is the guilt arising or being generated
from within not without. If a woman feels guilty about choosing not to
breastfeed, it is because a part of her is not convinced that artificial
baby milk is best for her baby. Period. If a woman feels, thinks and
believes that ABM is best and feeds her baby with that in mind with all of
her being, she will have no guilt. No one can *make* a person feel guilty,
it is already in there.
I waxed more eloquently to the dishes. Must be those negative ions.
Sincerely,
Lisa Boisvert Mackenzie, Midwife
Saipan, Northern Mariana Islands
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:59:43 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Lisa Boisvert-Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: day care and breastmilk concerns
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I am posting this for Rita Ledbetter, Midwife, please respond to her as well
as to the list. Thank you wise ones.
Lisa Boisvert Mackenzie
"Rita Ledbetter" <[log in to unmask]>
Our lactation consultant asked me to post this question to you wonderful
folks on the list . Parents are hearing rumblings from daycare providers of
the dangers of giving the wrong mother's breastmilk to an infant and
getting breastmilk on the daycare provider's hands . Especially of the
dangers of Hiv and other contaminants. Any thoughts I could share? There
even be some law coming up in Illinois for handling of breastmilk in the day
care setting. Thanx Rita
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:53:57 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Pumps that Don't Work
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If we go to the store and buy a blender and it doesn't blend, we take it
back. If we go to the store and buy a toaster oven and it doesn't toast, we
take it back. If we go and buy and electric razor and it doesn't remove the
hair, we take it back. Just because the motor turns on or the light comes on
doesn't mean it is working.
I feel the same way about small ineffective breast pumps. I tell the mother
to take it to the store and say it doesn't work. If it doesn't remove milk
efficiently and comfortably,
it is not working. I have never had a mom say the store didn't take it back.
Even Walmart.
I don't feel it is a personal care item issue.
Ann Calandro,RNC,IBCLC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:33:02 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Phillip Sheard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: top 3 interventions
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Dear Kathy,
I hesitate to disagree with you but I suspect that I feel the anyone can
overcome the barrier of not having breastfed when dealing with mothers.
There certainly are big problems with the way our hospitals deal with
supporting mothers but I don't know that you have to have "breastfed a child
for at least a year" to be able to work with new mothers who are
breastfeeding.
Phillip Sheard, Father to Alex - 7(nearly) and Elena 3, RN, Community Nurse,
soon to be COmmunity Educator for NMAA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lactation Information and Discussion
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Dettwyler
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 11:00 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: top 3 interventions
>
>
> 1. health care professionals who don't believe breastfeeding matters,
> because their kids were bottle-fed and turned out "just fine" -- well,
> except for the asthma, and the allergies, and the ear infections, but they
> don't matter
> 2. drugs to the mother during labor
> 3. viscious suctioning after birth (esp. when done
> routinely, and with
> cord cut immediately so that suctioning becomes imperative in more cases)
> 4. separation of mother and baby AT ALL
> 5. nurses giving bottles of formula or water to the baby
>
> Sorry, that was more than 3.
>
> Solutions?
>
> All health care professionals who work with women in labor and
> delivery and
> recovery must be midwives and IBCLCs, and have breastfed a child for at
> least one year. No drugs to the mother during labor -- but provide
> midwifery and doula care and let her move around and squat and labor where
> she feels safe. No suctioning of the baby after birth -- leave cord
> attached until it stops pulsing, place baby face-down on mother's abdomen.
> No separation of mother and baby. No formula or glucose water allowed in
> the hospital. No bottles. Never leave a nurse alone with a baby (not
> necessary if all hcp's are midwives and IBCLCs).
>
> Kathy Dettwyler
>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:32:55 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Phillip Sheard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: men nursing
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Dear Di and all,
This is such arrant rubbish as to almost not be worthy of reply but I feel
that it should not be let slide. I suspect that I am about to get involved
in a flame war but there it is.
Speaking for myself the last thing on my mind at any time was to "put my
children to my breast(chest)". I'd have to say anything like that is so
bizarre as to be uncontemplatable and such a thing could only happen in
America.
Many of us out here in the world realise that Father's have different things
to offerto our children than mothers - one of those things I don't have to
offer is breast milk. This man found with shaved nipples is clearly
unbalanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is certainly nothing I need to bury in a "belch-and-scratch-yourself
macho culture." but then I would reject such a categorisation. Given that
concisitantly research has shown one very importatn determinant of coninued
and successful breast feeding is partner support I do not feel this kind of
animopsity to fathers is useful or productive,
Phillip Sheard RN, COmmunity Nurse, Father to Alex -7(next week) and Elena 3
and soon to be NMAA Community Educator
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lactation Information and Discussion
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Diane Wiessinger
> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 1999 4:08 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: men nursing
>
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty high percentage of dads would sort
> of like to try nursing the baby. Why not? It's obviously a cool
> experience, and they're not completely lacking in nurturing impulses.
> I'll bet if they fessed up, they wouldn't be totally averse to keeping
> the baby happy at breast until mom gets back. But I suspect it's an
> impulse they feel they need to keep deeply buried in our
> belch-and-scratch-yourself macho culture. Kathy D? Any
> cross-cultural stories?
>
> Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY, who'll ask her DH as soon as
> he gets home...
>
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:08:27 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: killing yeast with bleach
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I thought the Australian experience here might be of interest. Many people
here use 'cold water sterilisers' or hypochlorite solutions for sterilising
bottles, teats, dummies, breast pump parts, etc. These are basically bleach
solutions. The instructions tell you to soak the items in these for at
least 2 hours (I think - it's a long time since I had need to use them) and
to use unrinsed, straight out of the solution.
However, if a mum has a problem with thrush, then it is suggested that she
use boiling instead of the cold water solutions for sterilising, as the
latter are not guaranteed to kill the thrush.
Interesting that someone else is suggesting that the chlorine treatment be
added to boiling to help kill yeast. I am not sure how 10% bleach compares
with the strength of the hypochlorite solutions as made up as instructed.
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
******************************************************************
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:47:30 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hashimoto and breastfeeding...incompatible???
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Today I had a third time mom who, since her last pregnancy, was
diagnosed with Hashimoto disease, chronic autoimmune thyroiditis, which
is under control with meds. A friend of hers who is a Professor of
Endocrinology, not an MD, told her not to breastfeed because the high
levels of prolactin may trigger further autoimmune responses, maybe even
SLE, and though she is a devoted breastfeeder, the idea is rather
frightening.
I found no direct reference to this possibility but my grasp of
endocrinology is definitely less than her professor. One of our
professors said that this is nonsense and that of course she should
breastfeed.
Anyone have any info on this?
By the way, her hypothyroidism has not interfered with milk supply in
any way. Her baby is thriving.
TIA
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
Lis Maternity Hospital
Tel Aviv, Israel
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:35:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: drugs in labor
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anna writes:
<< Many women have related to me how hospital staff have been disparaging of
their stated wish to avoid drugs, have pushed drugs on them or even bullied
them into
accepting them. >>
I know more than one woman who's had a nurse just walk in and stick her.
Without request, without asking before, and ignoring all queries of "what's
that?"
-Wendey (studying LC in montreal where it's already hot at 9:31 am)
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:01:35 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7oise_Railhet?= <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: listeriosis
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Dear lactnetters
I have lots of informations about listeriosis in the pregnant women and the
neonate. But we have here a women who get listeriosis while breastfeeding (I
don't know age of the baby), and the doctor tell her she has to stop
breastfeeding for not contaminating her child (mother not at all delighted
with that, but want the best for the baby). Any informations about
listeriosis in such conditions she can share with the doctor ?
Thank you a lot
Francoise Railhet
Manager of the LLL France Medical Associates Program
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: lethal gene theory
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Nikki clarified: "The lethal gene theory says something like this: if
there is a
failure in the reproductive cycle of more than 3% of a species, that
species
doesn't survive. Can't remember the author."
So does this then apply to breastfeeding? Also, how does the increase
in infertile couples having babies via technologic interventions
affect breastfeeding failure/ success rates?
Teresa G. in NC (who's fascinated by this angle... :) )
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:19:45 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: breastmilk intolerance stats
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>>if one in twenty babies cannot tolerate their mother's milk, doesn't it seem
>>odd that we don't know anything about it in our community (never seen this
>>mentioned anywhere, lawrence, riordan and auerbach, etc.) and that the human
>>race has SURVIVED? come on now.
>
As I started this thread, I thought I should clarify something this paed
said. It was 1 in 20 babies that supposedly had a problem with low levels
of enzyme to *one or more* of the oligosaccharides in breastmilk. In mild
cases, the baby was OK, but that this mother's baby had a severe case
because he supposedly had lack of enzymes to *many* of the types of
oligosaccharides. I think that is what he said to the mother, and she
explained to me.
Now I haven't read anything about this either - that's why I asked you all,
in case someone had seen something related to this at all, and could shed
light on what this paed was talking about. He said that there was something
on the Web, on some sort of paediatrics site recently about this. I had a
look at the AAP site but couldn't find anything remotely related to this
topic, but I admit I am not the world's greatest 'surfer'.
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:47:43 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vit K supplementation of Mothers
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A study titled "Improving the vitamin K status of Breastfeeding infants
with maternal vitamin K supplements was published in Pediatrics 1997 Jan; 99
(1):88-92. Its conclusion stated, " In exclusively breastfed infants who
receive intramuscular phylloquinone at birth, the vitamin K status as
measured by plasma phylloquinone and des-gamma-carboxy-prothrombin
concentrations is improved by maternal oral supplements of 5 mg/d
phylloquinone through the first 12 weeks of life.
There is another study, " A new mixed micellar preparation for oral vitamin
K prophylaxis: randomised controlled comparison with an intramuscular
formulation in breastfed infants." Arch Dis Child 1998 Oct; 79(4):300-5.
Its conclusion stated, Plasma vitamin K concentrations were at least equal or
significantly higher in babies given oral vit K supplements compared with IM
treated babies at the time points measured. Through the first 8 weeks of
life, multiple doses of the new oral preparation (Konakion MM) maintain
haemostasis and vit K status in breastfed infants at least equal to that of
the IM prep.
It is my understanding that this is being researched to prevent late
hemorrhagic disease of the newborn and or cancer from IM vit K. I have some
questions.
1. This is several times the RDA-What effect could this short-term
supplementation have on the mother, if any? The prenatals I have contain 25
mcg, this is not routinely given and wouldn't be enough.
2. If late hemorrhagic disease is connected to high PIVKA values, why
don't we screen for it? Is it too expensive?
3. If this has been connected to low vitamin K levels during pregnancy,
does this occur in mothers who are taking prenatal vitamins? What about
checking mom's vit K levels prior to birth?
4. Do you think women should be routinely supplemented with Vit K based on
this study?
5. What about the new oral prep? It sounds good to me and it may eliminate
the controversy over vit K and cancer.
Thanks. Christine Betzold RNP MSN CLE
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:03:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: drugs in labor
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A hospital practice around here (& I've heard elsewhere) that encourages
the use of epidurals etc. is a requirement that you must have an IV and
you must be constantly monitored so you can't get out of bed. So even if
your intent was to go w/o drugs these practices lead to epidurals. Most
moms don't know to refuse, (although my hairdresser would go in & tell
the nurses they could get a "test" strip and that was it...she was going
to walk around!)
There's no way I could have gone epidural-free if I hadn't been able to
freely move around, (I was with CNM at a freestanding birth center).
Melissa Kirsch, JD, LLLL
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:23:05 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tummy to tummy?
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Lori and all,
I have enjoyed the discussions regarding positioning. We have not defined
"good" positioning. Probably there are some guidelines; however, as so
many have eloquently stated, because of the uniqueness of mother-baby
dyads, no one position is perfect for every mother and baby. I feel the "C"
hold is too awkward for the mother with short fingers, the cigarette hold
may be very comfortable for a mother with long fingers and the "right"
breast, and that "tummy to tummy" for the long waisted women may put the
baby too far from the breast. I made a home visit with a woman(complaining
of sore nipples) who was told to feed "tummy to tummy" which she "heard" as
navel to navel. Thus, her baby's mouth was so far away from her nipples
that he had to send a letter to get a letdown. So, I prefer tummy to chest
or simply chest to chest.
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:32:37 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sterilising and thrush
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Joy,
>Interesting that someone else is suggesting that the chlorine treatment be
>added to boiling to help kill yeast. I am not sure how 10% bleach compares
>with the strength of the hypochlorite solutions as made up as instructed.
Wouldn't boiling cause the chlorine in the solution to evapourate?
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:35:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: day care and breastmilk concerns
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whatever precautions they use currently to prevent formula being given to
breastfed babies, or one baby's formula being given to another, should work
just as well for preventing giving one baby's breastmilk to another by
mistake.
and if they don't have procedures and precautions to prevent formula mixups,
they are way behind. . . .
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:03:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: men nursing
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>Speaking for myself the last thing on my mind at any time was to "put my
>children to my breast(chest)".
I apologize. I wrote with no offense intended.
Occasional opposite sex behaviors aren't particularly uncommon
in other mammals, and you can certainly induce male birds to build
nests or brood young if you shift their hormones just a bit. I just
wondered how far below the surface the urge to nurture at the breast
is.
As it turns out, my husband also insists he's never had anything
remotely resembling such an urge. But why the cultural fondness among
our men for giving the occasional bottle? And don't some men actually
buy those bib/bottle arrangements? My husband, who gave our son one
bottle and thoroughly enjoyed it, says there's a difference between
wanting to feed a baby and wanting to nurse a baby. But is that a
culturally-induced distinction? Or is the breastfeeding urge truly
non-existent?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC still curious in Ithaca, NY but
suspecting that this topic has been pretty well, um, milked
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:18:01 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judi Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Women being forced to take drugs in childbirth
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I'm not sure about other hospitals, but in mine I have lots of women who come
to childbirth classes asking about epidurals. They fully intend to have them
as early as possible in labor. Some of the things that were so important to
me do not matter to them at all. Our nurses do not encourage their use as
much as patients beg for them before they are even "permitted" to have them.
There is a tremendous need to teach women before pregnancy to encourage them
to believe they can manage childbirth and breastfeeding. Most of my mothers
believe breastfeeding is best but formula is not the dangerous substance we
believe it to be. These women need our compassionate help and teaching too.
Judi Hall
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:20:18 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Phillip's comments
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>Phillip wrote:
>There certainly are big problems with the way our hospitals deal with
>supporting mothers but I don't know that you have to have "breastfed a child
>for at least a year" to be able to work with new mothers who are
>breastfeeding.
Phillip, having given this more thought, I have to agree with you. You're
absolutely right. Perhaps it isn't so much having breastfed a child for a
year that matters, as having breastfed a child for as long as you wanted
(however long that was), and/or NOT having bottle-fed a child. Since you
are a male, you obviously can't breastfeed a child, but you also haven't had
the experience of "attempting to breastfeed" and then failing, and then
feeling bad about it and taking out your grief and guilt on other mothers
you come in contact with. Or of having chosen to bottle-feed in the first
place, and then later feeling that you have to justify your choice by
denying that breastfeeding matters. I think that some anti-breastfeeding
nurses (and doctors) spend a lot of energy denying that breastfeeding
matters so that they don't have to feel bad/guilty about their own choices
to bottle-feed.
With respect to men letting babies suck on their "breasts" -- there are
cultures where anyone who is holding a fussy baby, in the absence of its
mother, will let the baby suck on their fingers, knuckles, arms, or breasts
in order to comfort and pacify it. I don't see anything particularly weird
about this. In "modern" cultures, we have plastic pacifiers, and we stick
those in babies' mouth when they are fussing and their mother isn't around.
There really isn't any big difference. In my ever so humble opinion.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:42:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Taking pumps back
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Ann points out:
<< If we go to the store and buy a blender and it doesn't blend, we take it
back. If we go to the store and buy a toaster oven and it doesn't toast, we
take it back. If we go and buy and electric razor and it doesn't remove the
hair, we take it back. Just because the motor turns on or the light comes on
doesn't mean it is working.>>
And the store will take it back --- if it doesn't toast, or doesn't blend, or
doesn't shave, I don't think the store will try to resell it. Don't you
think they'll send it back to Black and Decker or Cheesy Home Appliances or
whereever the product was made? The store doesn't have to eat the loss.
< >>
Exactly. The store has an obligation to stand behind the product they sell.
If it doesn't work, they send it to the manufacturer. If a mom buys a pump
from me and it doesn't work, we send it back to the manufacturer. I don't
have to just "eat it" and I'm certainly not going to resell a defective pump.
The bathing suit/underpants/earring issue is a bit different.
Theoretically, the item of clothing isn't defective; the customer just
doesn't like it or it doesn't fit. If it IS defective, the store will take
it back, and give the money back. That's different than returning a dress
that isn't the right color. Those they can resell....
Jan Barger, RN, MA, IBCLC
In Wheaton, IL where it is POURING!
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:03:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "not ready to process lactose"
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Here's case I'd like comments on. The mom is someone very, very
committed to breastfeeding. I have her permission to post excerpts
from her emails to me here.
>>>My boys were
> 10 wks early and are still only 7 wks old (37 wks corrected). They are
> also still in the NICU. The doctor> has not concluded that they are lactose intolerant (or galactosemic)she > only says that at the moment she thinks the problem lies in that their > guts just aren't ready to process lactose. Is this possible? She has > told me numerous times not to fret yet that they may still very well be > able to nurse eventually.<<<<
NOTE: These babies have not been tested for galactosemia.
Her original note to me ran as follows:
>> I want to breast feed so badly but the boys just will not take my milk.>> Peter eats it for a day or so then starts to turn blue and Bergen just>> throws it all up. the doctor says not to worry yet that they just may>> not be ready for lactose and put them back on the formula (lacto-free).>> I asked if eliminating dairy from my diet would take the lactose out of>> my milk and the doctor said no, that even to get significant amounts of>> "cow" protein in it I would have to be drinking huge amounts of milk a>> day (which I'm not). I am just starting to get a little paniced.
To me it sounds as though the dr. is not clear at all why this
reaction is happening AND knows even less about breastfeeding.
Apparently the babies are not on the breast at all.
Does this, in fact, sound like galactosemia to you all? What
procedures would you follow to help this mom? (Keep in mind I am only
in email contact with her, as she is a friend of a friend. :) )
Teresa G. in NC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:14:57 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Catherine Watson Genna <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Question about antibodies in pumped breast milk
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Human milk antibodies survive refrigeration and freezing, unless the milk is
overheated before feeding and the antibodies are denatured.
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC NYC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:45:03 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Pamela Morrison IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hospitals providing choices
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Deanne wrote (on the choice of whether mothers accept an epidural, or not),
"The same is true of breastfeeding...if, after careful explanation and
education, a mother chooses to bottle feed with ABM .. One cannot stand
over a mother and insist that she breastfeed ... Like all other health and
human issues,
breastfeeding remains a personal and private choice which we can improve and
facilitate but not mandate. My complaint is when a mother has chosen to
breastfeed and either she, herself, or the nurses, or her doctor, or a
family member sabotage that decision with poor advice and information."
Amen to that! But, you know, there's a couple more things that go towards
helping her make that "choice". 1) the assumption that there IS a choice,
2) an environment that presents different choices as equal, or nearly-equal,
and 3) the easy availability of breastmilk substitutes - as long as
hospitals have formula and bottles and go on providing mothers of healthy
babies with the means *not* to breastfeed, then there will always be those
mothers who seem to "choose" not to breastfeed.
I'm not talking about those (very few) medical indications for formula for
sick/prem babies in the first couple of days until the mom's milk is in,
inborn errors of metabolism etc, but about your normal, average, healthy,
full-term baby.
This is a story about a mother who was *not* provided with a choice. An
expatriate mom who was so frank with me that it has been a joy to work with
her. Referred by her concerned OB, she phoned about a week before her baby's
birth to say she was not at all sure about breastfeeding. She didn't like
the thought of it, and she was worried about how she would be treated in the
private hospital where she was booked to have a Caaesarean delivery - known
for it's In-this-hospital-the-babies-are-breastfed Policy. She thought she
would like to give breastfeeding a try, because she knew it was best for the
baby, but booked me for hospital visits, and we arranged that I would
intercede for her with the hospital staff if, having done her best, she
still wanted to abandon breastfeeding actually in the hospital.
At the first visit I found the staff impatiently waiting for me because the
mom wouldn't put the baby to the breast without me. The baby, bless her,
latched very easily and was one of those babies who are "demanding" right
from the beginning, so mom had to breastfeed a lot in the first 24 hours in
order to keep the baby happy. By the second night mom was ready to throw in
the towel. On the morning of the third day I found her with gooseberry eyes
from all the crying she had done the night before as she tearfully related
that in ........(country of origin) things would have been so easy - the
hospital just brought the baby for feeding *and* a bottle at the same time
and asked the mother if at this "feed" she wanted to breastfeed or
bottle-feed. I sympathised and repeated my offer to explain her feelings to
the nurses, and to the paediatrician. Meanwhile, we covered expressing
colostrum into a spoon and mixing this with a very small Qx of glucose water
(a la Jack) until she could phone her husband to bring the bottles and the
formula into the hospital. She *still* wanted to do the best for her baby
however, and thought she could carry on breastfeeding just a little longer
... By the next morning I found a mother transformed - she was all smiles
as she described how in the middle of the night she "just decided to get on
with it and breastfeed". Result: the baby was extremely relaxed and mom knew
now that she *could* breastfeed.
This week the baby is a month old and the parents came to return the pump
I'd provided on the fifth day to deal with engorgement and for them to use
for EBM-feeding if they still wanted not to breastfeed. They told me with
some considerable pride of the baby's weight gain, mom looks *wonderful*,
and - guess what - she's still exclusively breastfeeding! It's a little
miracle. Facilitated, I'm sure, by a hospital which made *not*
breastfeeding so difficult at a really critical time, that the mom simply
had *no* choice.
Pamela Morrison IBCLC, Zimbabwe
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:15:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "not ready to process lactose"
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Most USA hospitals/states screen for galactosemia. It would be important to
find out if this is the problem, since galactosemia is a contraindication to
breastfeeding. I don't think the babies can be labelled as "galactosemic"
unless they are tested. There may be other stuff going on; it's hard to tell
from the information received.
Linda Shaw MD FAAP
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:02:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "J. Rachael Hamlet" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump Returns
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Actually, there is such a law. It is an article of basic, first year law
school, hornbook law: a purchaser is entitled to *perfection* in a
purchase of goods. If the item falls short of its advertised function
*in any way* the seller must accept the return and give back full
value.
Only an explicit contract between the seller and buyer in which the
buyer waives imperfections will alter this. In addition, it is the law
pretty much everywhere that such a waiver does not alter the
buyer's right to a refund if there is an essential defect.
A breast pump that does not extract milk would be an essentially
defective article for which the buyer should receive full value upon
return.
End of story. Take that to small claims court, and tell 'em a first
year law student told you so. ;-)
Rachael Hamlet
Breastfeeding busybody and New York Lawyer
On 13 Jun 99, at 8:18, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> There is no law stating a store must accept returns of
> anything. Consumers should be aware of each stores policies before buying.
> Diane Barnes Maternal Expressions--Metro-Detroit
>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:23:39 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lori Peters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: questions about cranial sacral therapy
Dear List,
I have heard some about cranial sacral therapy. However, I have always been
a little skeptical about some of the more unusal or less mainstream
treatments and therapys, (such as herbals and chiropractic therapy etc), so
to be honest, I have skipped over reading about this sort of stuff .....
you will have to forgive me for this, I was raised by a RN and I am an RN
so I have a very medical outlook on things and just can't help
it!!!.....Now I have a client that perhaps may benefit from this. I have
searched archives, and while mention is made of this therapy, no
description is given. What I am looking for is info on exactly what this
sort of therapy does to the baby and what the effect is.
My client in a 30 year old 1st time mom who experienced a very quick and
natural birth with early and continuous contact with her baby. The baby
would not latch and when examined by myself at about 6 hours of age was
found to be alert but had no rooting relex. By the end of the 1st day mom
was pumping and offering pumped milk first by finger feeds and later by a
wide base bottle (as this began to drag on, parents requested alternative
methods to feed). Mom continued to pump.
The baby was seen again at about 10 days of age and was found to have no
aversive behavior at the breast but again no rooing at all...even with the
bottle. Parents were advised to treat the breastfeeding "as play" ...when
baby was receptine, try to nurse and if any adversive behavior began to
quit trying. Also advised to spend alot of time skin to skin...co-bathing
and during awake times etc. Mom was still pumping.
Now at 5 weeks mom calls and says she has had a few latches but poor milk
tranfer and was ready for another visit with me. At the breast the baby
still has no rooting. Interestingly, the baby will either stick her tounge
out but keep her mouth closed or will open the mouth but bunch the tounge.
We had a very difficult time getting an open mouth and a tounge out all at
the same time...the baby was very patient with us, almost as if she was
trying her best, but just could not figure things out. Eventually a good
latch was obtained and milk transfer observed, however it was quite an
ordeal to get to this. I told mom that sucessfull feedings will encourage
the baby to adopt better techniques, however, I feel this baby is
exhibiting some unusual behaviors (learned or otherwise), and wonder if
there is anything else that may work, and back to my original question...is
this baby a candiadte for cranial sacral work and what would be done?
When I mentioned my thoughts to the mom, she was familiar with the
words...she is a massage theapist, but she was interested in exactly what
would be done with a baby and gave permission to post.
Thank you for any input you may have on this intersting case,
Lori Peters RN IBCLC
Kenosha, Wisconsin
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:21:48 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Burnett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Kathy's response to Phillip
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I am a breastfeeding educator or was not very successful at breastfeeding my
children. After the birth of my first two children, entered the field of
nursing and then gave birth to my third child. Who nursed for only a brief
period. I then became an advocate for breastfeeding, when I realized the
influence the physicians and nurses have on breastfeeding. Even when
carefully selecting a pedicatrician I thought I could trust, the solution
for every breastfeeding problem was formula. Needless to say, I felt very
sad and guilty that after having three healthy children had not found the
support from my co-workers and did not feel I was able to offer the best
nutrition for my children. I became sad and then angry, and now will do
anything to help a mom be a successful as she can. I present the
information, offer the education and support (24 hours a day) and if she
feels guilty for not choosing to breastfeed, then I am sad for her (for she
must recognize that there is great significance in her decision or she would
not have Guilt feelings.)
Enjoying the summer in Texas
Laura Burnett
Breastfeeding Nurse
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:04:43 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Birth Videos
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My absolute favorite birth video is Birth in The Squatting Position. It's
this cybervision-type of video where all you see is baby after baby crowning
and being born with mom squatting. So empowering. Not only are the mothers
actively engaged in birth but they are catching their babies, looking at them
and putting them to the breast. I have no idea how to get it but I'm sure
someone on Lactnet knows how.
Tracy Kirschner, DC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:25:59 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 12 Jun 1999 to 13 Jun 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-19)
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In a message dated 6/13/99 8:44:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
As I washed the dishes today, I was mulling over the notion of guilt and
decided, according to me, that guilt is a feeling that emerges within a
person when s/he he is not acting with integrity (wholeness), integrity
meaning with head, heart and hands in balance. If a person is out of balance
and behaving as such and experiences *guilt* when someone names the act
that provokes the guilty feeling, it is the guilt arising or being generated
from within not without. If a woman feels guilty about choosing not to
breastfeed, it is because a part of her is not convinced that artificial
baby milk is best for her baby. Period. If a woman feels, thinks and
believes that ABM is best and feeds her baby with that in mind with all of
her being, she will have no guilt. No one can *make* a person feel guilty,
it is already in there.
>>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:54:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: paladia
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someone asked me this, has anyone heard of these?
1. Do you know about the use of an Indian cup called a paladia (may be
paladua) to teach babies how to breastfeed? (Babies w/suck problems.) They
lick the tip of a long, narrow spout in a motion that mimics what their
tongue needs to do when breastfeeding -- thats' what I've heard.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:55:19 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: formula for kosovo
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does anyone know specifically if formula companies have donated formula to be
used in the balkans or have a source for information about this? i live in a
world where i don't see formula reps.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:23:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pump returns
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When I consult with a Mom who is using one of the "defective"pumps and I
suggest that she return it, I also suggest she file a complaint with the FDA
at their Website. The manager of the big toy chain store here once told a Mom
he was getting really tired of all these breastpumps being returned to the
store and then him having to deal with it. So maybe he needs to reconsider
selling an item that keeps being returned!
Barb Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:30:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nipple sandwich - breast sandwich
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I agree that nipple sandwich can be very confusing.
In Puerto Rico, there are so many fast-food places that I found it easy t=
o
describe what I wanted the baby to do as : Have him open his mouth for a
"burger-king" sized breast sandwich rather than drinking breast milk from=
a
nipple "straw"...
Luckily, in Spanish, we use the term "dar el pecho" so I could stress tha=
t
we wanted to give the baby "pecho" (breast) and not "pezon" (Nipple).
Spanish was also easier in getting the baby to learn that AAAABRE - mean=
t
"open your mouth wide for the breast" - in English, OOOPEN - only gives=
a
small opening. Maybe we should have all breastfed babies understand at
least this much Spanish???
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, IBCLC, LLLL
Vacaville, CA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:44:59 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: men nursing
To Philip:
Hear Hear! Let's face it. Men are not physiologically built for
breastfeeding. Nor are the 52 men I polled over the weekend inclined to do
it for any reason. Kangaroo care is the furthest any of them would go.
Deanne
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:33:38 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Paladai
Carol,
The thing you are describing is a paladai. It is used normally as an oil
lamp but Indian families have used them as breastfeeding aids, probably
because most families have one. Our OT is taking a trip to India this fall
and I have asked her to bring me one. Apparently they are also used in the
middle east, although may not be called the same thing. My daughter is
living in Baku, Azerbaijan and describes a similar tool.
Interestingly an article about this appeared last week on the front page of
our local newspaper. It was by Huntly Collins of Knight Ridder Newspapers.
I would be happy to post it if anyone is interested. It describes a study
going on in Philadelphia to determine wither these traditional Indian
feeding cups could help "American babies learn to breast feed."
Deanne
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:03:26 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Susan Ludington-Hoe, in a conference session last August in Cincinnati, had
an interesting anecdote concerning one of the fathers in her studies on
kangaroo care. The dad, a pro football player, was scrubbed, hooked up to
the monitors, etc., and holding the baby on his (hairy) chest, when the baby
proceeded to latch on to the paternal nipple. The dad was quite
uncomfortable with the situation, as evidenced by the look on his face in the
slides Susan took, but he put up with it, and eventually relaxed. At the end
of his "kangarooing" time, he told Susan that he already felt closer to his
newborn than he did to his older children.
The point here? I don't know, except that babies will seek warmth and
comfort wherever they find it (remember Harry Harrison's monkeys?), including
their dad's chest...and that dads have powerful nurturing feelings, too. I
think that the pro football dad would have bonded with his baby just as well
through kangaroo cuddling alone, but it seems to me that this experience
certainly did no harm to either one.
Personally, if my own baby was rooting on my husband, I'd ask him to hand him
over so I could nurse him. There were plenty of other ways he could bond
with our baby, and times when only his wide shoulder, warm hands, and low
voice could calm our fussy baby at 1 a.m. He had no wish to take over for me
in the breastfeeding department, and that is fine with me. Vive la
difference.
I agree that I would find it interesting to speculate on what life would be
like if both sexes shared the nursing of the young like the previously
mentioned bats. I wonder how that society would be different from ours,
where many families share the feeding of the young through
bottlefeeding...(including bottles of mother's milk, of course)?
Fuzzily philosophical at midnight...
Lisa Mo
LLLL, Bowling Green, KY
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:17:32 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The Baby Think It Over Program?
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Dear Lacnuts!!
Talking about being a "nut" I spend all day today catching up on e-mail over
1000! So since I woke up with a very painful plugged duct, I decided to sit
with warm compresses, massage, nursed all three and sat with my computer
reading all of your mail since March!! Is this dedication? I was very
tempted to simply delete many times, but I just couldn't do it!! Maybe this
time I can keep up with all the reading!!
I wondered if anybody has heard or has any comments about The Baby Think It
Over Program. This program is geared toward teenagers and it is meant to
teach them about parenting and the consequences of having a baby. It is a
"baby" and it says that "at the heart of Baby is an internal computer that
cried at random intervals simulating the sleeping, waking, and feeding
patterns of a newborn. Baby requires that the assigned teen insert and hold
a care key in place for up to 30 minutes. The care key is attached to a
tamper resistant, non-transferable wristband worn on the teen's wrist. Only
the assigned student can quiet Baby." So is this a good idea? or are we
teaching teens that a regular pattern for a baby is to cry when hungry?
Does anybody know anything about this program?
Smiles,
Yvonne
**********************************
Yvonne C. Bannister, LLLL, IBCLC
Hollister, CA
Private Practice/Baby's BestFeeding
"A mother holds her baby . . . who lovingly holds her breast and gets the
best!"
Mail to:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:25:31 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Fookkong Fok <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: a spout-like cupfeeding device
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dear Carol Brussel,
Yes, I've seen this spout-like cupfeeding device which Dr. Indira Narayan
from New Delhi,India showed us when she came to Singapore to present her
data on cupfeeding in India. You may like to write to her to ask more about
it - email: [log in to unmask] or tel: 6221669 or 6215064. Hope you
can contact her. Doris Fok, IBCLC in private practice in Singapore
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:04:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kermaline J Cotterman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Suggestive semantics re: positioning
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Carol writes:
< .....was told to feed "tummy to tummy" which she "heard" as
navel to navel. Thus, her baby's mouth was so far away from her nipples
that he had to send a letter to get a letdown. So, I prefer tummy to
chest
or simply chest to chest.>
Stimulated a thought: what about some mention of ribs? "Ribs to ribs"? Or
forget the alliteration and say "Chest to ribs"? "Hug his chest, belly
button and knees close to your ribs"? "Snuggle his frontside right up to
your ribs"? "Belly up to the bar -er - ribs, that is"?
Breasts maintain a lot closer anatomical and semantic relationship to
mom's ribs than to her tummy, or stomach, or navel, or abdomen (which is
what many, many people are referring to when they say "tummy".) And
postpartum tummies are often in a state of flux, or flub, so to speak.
Ribs stay pretty much in the same location and make a stable landmark.
And ribs are pretty much ribs, the world over, the same all our life as
they were from our first understanding of them as a child.
After last week's withdrawal symptoms, just some thoughts, at 3 a.m. when
all's quiet and I'm getting my Lactnet "fix" before the "school's
out-more grannying time" begins!
K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC
Dayton, Ohio
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:51:08 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Losing hair and lactose intolerance
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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> A Mum phone me to say that she had been breastfeeding for 3 months.
>She tells me that her hair is falling out in bunches - do any of you have
>any suggestion as to why this could be happening and what can she do about
>it?
We have covered this before, so it should be in the archives. Basically,
it's nothing to do with breastfeeding. It might be caused by an underlying
illness (so worth getting checked by doctor), or can be just catching up
after less hair loss during pregnancy (someone else mentioned this). Other
thing to bear in mind is that trauma of any kind can precipitate hair loss,
and it typically occurs 3 to 4 months following the traumatic event.
> At the moment I have a Paed whipping my breastfed babies off the
>breast because they have "Lactose Intolerance" - in fact the clinic sister
>are doing the same now! Any advice? (I know what I'd like to do!)
Oh boy, one of my 'favourite' subjects!! First you have to make sure it is
not just 'lactose overload' rather than intolerance, ie too much milk, too
fast. Many people mistake this for lactose intolerance and it's simply a
breastfeeding management issue.
Real lactose intolerance in babies is almost always secondary to something
causing gut damage, so you need to find the cause of the damage, and fix
that, and the lactose intolerance will go away by itself. If you don't
address the cause, then swapping to lactose-free formula will then just
mask it temporarily, but the problem will not be solved. Trouble is that
often doctors who 'solve' the problem with taking babies off the breast
usually don't see the child later down the track and therefore realise that
there was something else going on (eg allergy or food intolerance). In some
severe cases, the babies may need to be temporarily taken off the breast,
or given alternate feeds, but only if the underlying cause is being
addressed as well.
As far as what you can do about others, such as health professionals, not
understanding this, I advocate educating the parents so they can question
the advice. I have written an article in the NMAA Newsletter (Members'
magazine, Summer 1999 issue) in Australia directed at parents, which has
proven to be useful in this situation.
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:38:39 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: day care and breastmilk concerns
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I believe the CDC has a statement about breastmilk. It is NOT subjected to
universal precautions. Can a state law supercede a federal policy? I
don't think so. But anyway you need to get proper info to state of IL
asap, or whoever is concocting this new bill or reg.
Each mom needs to be reponsible for clearly marking her milk. Then it is
up to day care provider to see that right infant gets right milk. My
g.daughter's day care (SC) is very careful about marking her formula and
bottles. Why should it be any different for breastmilk? Sincerely, Pat in
SNJ
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:08:12 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paladai
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I saw an advert for paladai laying on a shelf in a local hosp nursery.
They are the "newest" thing out. Will try and find out more.
Sincerely,Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:47:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hashimoto and breastfeeding...incompatible???
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I think this professor is incorrect and hope someone with an appropriate
background is on the list to answer. Hashimoto's is a chronic autoimmune
thyroiditis and does usually require thyroid replacement therapy for life.
Occurs more frequently in women and in their 30's and 40's. Thyroid
replacement therapy is NOT a contraindication for BF. Sincerely,Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:20:13 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Baby Think It Over Program?
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I think it is a neat program. "Baby think it over" comes in a drug
addicted form too, very cranky and demanding. Much better than the old
"carry an egg around" or 5 lb sack of sugar. Makes parenting very real.
Records inattention and abuse too.
Local high school uses them. Had to smile when I heard one teen ager
describe how her baby wouldn't calm (I think the doll malfunctioned) and
the whole household was in an uproar at 3 am until she called her teacher
for advice! But the point is real babies malfunction and we can't throw
them out or beat them when they cry endlessly.
I also observed that it was a real matter of concern to the teens that they
did well on the computer print out of their care of baby. They really paid
attention to doll's care for the 24 hours they care for it. Get a little
taste of 24/7 !
I think it is a very appropriate program to use with teens to let them get
a small taste of the reality of life with baby and I think the program
needs to start in Jr High with a refresher class each year so they "think
it over" real well! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:40:11 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Amir family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: afebrile painless breast abcess not responding to antibiotics
Comments: To: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
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>Has anyone else had a similar experience with an abscess in an afebrile
>patient who experiences no pain? I think the encapsulation theory is
>correct, but the cause is not clear. Any ideas?
>
Hi Esther,
I have seen quite a few women with abscesses and mostly they are afebrile
and feeling well. The pain in the affected area of the breast does vary.
I'm sure you're right about the infection getting walled off early on.
The commonest bacteria found in breast abscesses is Staph aureus, and this
bug has a tendency to form abscesses. I don't think we need to imagine
unusual organisms like TB - but I think it is always reassuring to send off
the pus for culture to confirm the organism. Sometimes an abscess occurs
even when the mother and health professionals did all the right things (freq
drainage, correct antibiotic -eg dicloxacillin - not amoxycillin or plain
old penicillin) - it is the fault of the organism not anyone else.
Lisa Amir
MBBS, IBCLC in Melbourne, Australia - snow is starting to fall in the
mountains, must check the ski-gear!
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:14:01 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: paladia
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Carol:
As I recall there is research being done on the use of the paladia with
premies as an alternative to the cup.
Patricia
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:29:52 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: day care and breastmilk concerns
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Carol,
>whatever precautions they use currently to prevent formula being given to
>breastfed babies, or one baby's formula being given to another, should work
>just as well for preventing giving one baby's breastmilk to another by
>mistake.
>
>and if they don't have procedures and precautions to prevent formula mixups,
>they are way behind. . . .
And potentially risking a baby's life. I met a mother the other day who
was telling me her baby was so allergic to standard formula, his skin
would blister if he *touched* it. She breastfed him for a year, and then
put him on soya milk, but if he had been in daycare and if he hadn't
been breastfed, imagine if this baby got a bottle of standard formula
accidently! It surely could have killed him? Entirely hypothetical, I
grant, but I believe it could happen.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:02:49 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pump returns
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In a message dated 99-06-14 00:06:35 EDT, you write:
<< Only an explicit contract between the seller and buyer in which the
buyer waives imperfections will alter this. >>
Most retailers set their own policies on such. Most retailers post these
policies ( if they are smart retailers) and have these policies written on
the sales slip (we do.)
BTW, I sell only breast pumps that work. If there is an imperfection in the
equipment, I have found it much easier for the customer to deal directly with
the manufacturer. Some manufacturers prefer this. The manufacturer is
sometimes, able to respond faster to the customer needs than the retailer
can be. Usually, the manufacturer will send, overnight, a new pump or part.
AND, at the same time pick up the defective one. This relieves the retailer
from the cost of returns. Actually , a lot of manufacturers have limits on
the % of returns a retailer may submit. And, may only get a % of the actual
cost of the item. (Although,This is not the case with those I work with.)
Unfortunalty, there are customers that abuse return policies from time to
time. That is why we see more and more retailers with stricter policies ie
Eddie bauer and Hudsons (retailers in US--EB is also catalog). Both have
tightened up policies due to customers taking unfair advantage of the stores
very generous return policies. In the Hudsons Dept Stores people would
actually bring back china that was used for a party, dresses that were worn
to weddings etc. Eddie Bauer had a lifetime return policy. People would
bring back clothing from their dear departed for return!
Breast pumps are a specialty item that should be purchased from those
retailers who specialize in them. Customers will get better service and
personal attention from such stores. Owners of these type of stores care
about the success of breastfeeding not just the purchase of equipment.
Retailers like this across the country that I have had the pleasure to meet
are thoughtful , caring individuals who believe in the cause --not just the
bottom line. New moms need support. the won't get it from the "Big Box"
stores.
Diane Barnes
Maternal Expressions-metro Detroit
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:06:31 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: both parents sharing breastfeeding
>I agree that I would find it interesting to speculate on what life would be
like if both sexes shared the nursing of the young like the previously
mentioned bats. I wonder how that society would be different from ours,
where many families share the feeding of the young through
bottlefeeding.<
In her book "The Left Hand of Darkness" Ursula le Guin imagines such a world.
The people of the planet described in this sf/fantasy novel are all one sex and
change during 'kemmer' into having male or female sex organs. They respond to
their partner and may become 'female' or 'male' at different times. This is one
of the most 'decorated' sf books ever. Ursula Le Guin is the duaghter of
Theodore Kroeber, anthropolgist at UC Berkeley, who was the person who housed
Ishi, then thought to be the last of his Indian tribe. Ursula knew Ishi in her
childhood and I have always thought this is one of the sources for the power of
her writing -- when she describes a new alien race, she gives a real sense of
their 'otherness'.
I have, however, long thought it interesting that the book (wirtten in the 70's)
puts this race on a planet with no large mammals and so no source of alternative
milk, yet they breastfeed their children for 9 months. An interesting influence
of the reality of the time affecting fiction of the future.
(Someday I would like to write about 'breastfeeding in the future' and
sporadically collect any references to bf in science fiction/fantasy -- anyone
else have any good examples?)
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:17:27 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dyak fruit bats
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I believe in the fruit bats it is *only* the males who lactate. They don't
share it with the females. Just as in some amphibian species, it is the
male who carries the eggs around until they hatch. Same with sea horses.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:20:41 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: monkeys
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Those are Harry Harlow's monkeys. :)
Kathy D.
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:55:28 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hospitals providing choice
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Lactnetters,
>Deanne wrote (on the choice of whether mothers accept an epidural, or not),
>"The same is true of breastfeeding...if, after careful explanation and
>education, a mother chooses to bottle feed with ABM .. One cannot stand
>over a mother and insist that she breastfeed ...
{snip}
>My complaint is when a mother has chosen to
>breastfeed and either she, herself, or the nurses, or her doctor, or a
>family member sabotage that decision with poor advice and information."
When these mothers make this "choice", have they actually been told of
the hazards of formula feeding, or simply that breastfeeding is "better"
(as ground coffee is better than instant, or butter is better than
margarine)? I have spoken to many, many women who have "chosen" to
bottlefeed, some of whom felt educated and informed at that choice, but
invariably I find out that they are just not that informed at all in
reality. The reasons they give for their "choice" is often almost
laughable, if it weren't so serious ("I heard breastfeeding hurts", "My
boyfriend didn't like it", "I want to be able to go out occasionally",
"I like wearing Wonderbras").
Others will tell you they chose to bottlefeed, but later on, you
discover a story of breastfeeding sabotage and total undermining of the
mother's confidence ("The doctor told me my milk was too thin", "My baby
had colic because she was allergic to my milk"). They are telling you it
was a choice to try and make themselves feel better about it, IMHO.
I have had the pleasure of meeting a couple of women in my life who
breastfed because they were told they had to. One had a premie baby
fairly recently in a UK hospital and the doctor told her that she had
two choices: breastfeed, and her baby was in with a chance; formula feed
and her baby probably wouldn't make it (that was the truth in this
particular case).
Another woman was told to breastfeed after a couple of weeks of the baby
on various formulas, none of which he could tolerate. He got seriously
ill and they told her he needed donor breastmilk. She felt wrong about
this idea, and asked if there was any way should could breastfeed him
herself, after all. They didn't know, but suggested she try.
Fortunately, she succeeded, despite the total lack of skilled support (I
met her on holiday, and don't have specific details sadly - these days,
I'd be getting her name, address, the hospital, her Ped etc. and asking
permission to write up her story! :-^)
I don't think the majority of women would resent being strongly
encouraged, if not pushed, to breastfeed by HCPs, anymore than they
resent being told to provide adequate car restraints or not smoke in
pregnancy. They might not take any notice, ofcourse. Then again...
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:55:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: kym smythe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Workplace Chemicals
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Thanks to all who replied to my query. I got wonderful replies from
Jack Newman, whom we all know and love, and Roy Bannister, who's a
toxicologist.
The mom should be able to continue in her current job. The
opportunities for any of these chemicals to get into mom's milk in any
significant quantities is slim to non-existent.
Kym
PS - I am no mail on Lactnet, so please respond privately if you'd like
more details.
--
--
Kym Smythe, MEd, IBCLC
New Castle, DE, USA
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:14:42 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Men Nursing
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
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As hard as I have tried not to get into this discussion, I can no longer
help myself. First I would like to know .....
Deanne, How did you manage to find 52 men, over the weekend, to poll? I
spent my weekend at the Bicycle repair shop, VCR repair shop, Wal Mart,
and at my chosen place of worship...I honestly do not believe I saw 30
men!
Second, I would like to comment....
It has been my experience, referring to classmates, friends of siblings,
men I've known, that many men LIKE breasts. Either for their basic
natural beauty, awe of their life-sustaining function, or cultural
sex-appeal. However, I have never yet met a man who wanted, was
interested in, or had a breast augmentation. (Not implying that there
are not any...but talking about the "mainstream" )
As a LLLL, I have heard of fathers who pacified their baby with their
breast, as an experiment, and "last effort". Apparently, the father in
question, had no desire to do this, has no desire to ever try it again
(it was unsuccessful...baby did not stop fussing), but was trying
anything and everything to comfort baby.
Is it possible that basic body hormones, metabolisim, etc would create
different odors...after all, I think we all agree there are fundamental
differences...and even if lactating, baby would refuse to "nurse" on
fathers' breast??
Now, to start a new tangent.....
As long as we are contemplating Father nursing, why not let him "carry"
the babe, I would be more than willing to "let" my dh "carry" any future
pregnancies....I might even share, and not ask for his help until the
7th or 8th month!
Then, if he wanted, I might share the nursing, too. But IMO,
Breastfeeding is the reward for those LONG last two months of pregnancy,
and until he endures that, BF is off-limits, too.
Laura Wright
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:08:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
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After rereading my last post on male breastfeeding in the light of day, I'd
like to add one more note: although my significant other has no desire to
take over the breastfeeding function, he is comfortable enough with his body
image that he has joked with his child about asking him to nurse. Our little
guy thought that was hilarious, and declared "Daddies have no nai-nai!"
Later he turned around and asked his older brother for "nai-nai's" as a joke,
too, and both were giggling as they snuggled in our (nursing spot) recliner,
and the little guy was lifting his brother's shirt and making "pretend
nursing" sounds.
I see such an episode as healthy and nurturing, and evidence that my three
boys are growing up to be wonderful fathers, like their own dad.
Lisa Mo
LLLL, Bowling Green, KY
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:33:34 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: paladai
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Kay Hoover and I have a picture of a paladai in our up-coming book. It is
essentially a small cup with a pour spout -- it looks like a tiny gravy
tureen. In my opinion, it combines the features of a spoon (with regard to
accommodating the small size of an infant's mouth, and better "directional"
control of the fluid) and a cup (with the capacity to manage larger volumes
without having to re-fill so often). Would it, in my opinion, teach
breastfeeding skills? No. You learn to breastfeed by breastfeeding. This
is a swallowing-based feeding device, not a sucking (via a combination of
compression and suction) based device. It is a way to get food into a baby,
and prob. a better designed device for that than a cup. It is prob. easier
to keep clean in countries which lack access to plumbing than a bottle teat
would be.
Any alternate feeding device has the potential to re-condition the baby's
feeding-related expectations, creating the condition commonly referred to as
"confusion." Alternate feeding devices should be chosen on a case-by-case
basis depending on a variety of factors which include: the reason the baby
needs alternate feeding, how long the baby will require alternate feeding,
access, cost, cleanliness, parent's ability to tolerate its use, the extent
to which the device can be used therapeutically to improve the oral skills
necessary to transition back to breastfeeding, etc.
If an infant has low tone in the oral-motor muscular structures, it doesn't
make sense not to exercise them with some sort of sucking. Just swallowing
succeeds in feeding the baby, which is very important, but it tends not to
improve the muscular functioning as well as also encouraging some sucking.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:21:51 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Gastritis/Reflux
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I would appreciate ideas for this case. 6 week old child, born at 7-5, now
weighs 11.5 pounds. Baby's dad is a physician. Baby has been spitting up
frequently since birth. Parents would not be concerned so much about this,
because baby is obviously growing well, but baby seems to be in pain during
feeding and cries a lot. No choking episodes, just frequent pain and
vomiting. We have removed dairy from mom's diet, (for two weeks, still
dairy free) and mom only feeds one breast each feed. Parents tried reflux
meds which did not seem to make a difference, I believe propulsid and
reglan. They were trying to just go with this and have weekly weight checks.
Baby gained only one ounce last week, so they got very concerned. I told
them wait and see, could have been a fluke since it was on a different scale
in ped's other office, but they didn't want to wait and see.
Went to see pediatric gastroenterologist last week who diagnosed breastmilk
allergy.
Told them to take baby off breast for 72 hours, pump milk and feed
predigested. Parents decided to try. Baby refused to drink from bottle,
refused predigested. They were only able to get small amounts in her (5
ounces in 24 hours). They went back to gastroenterologist. He said baby had
blood in stool. Dad looked at test, could not see a positive reaction. No
obvious blood. Dr. scoped the baby. Said, sorry it is not breastmilk
allergy, it is gastritis from reflux. Severe redness in throat and
esophagus.
This MD says he diagnoses 10-11 cases of breastmilk allergy every month.
What suggestions would you have for this mom? She has tried holding the
baby upright after feeds. She has tried smaller frequent feeds. Do you
think this baby would be helped by some chiropractic adjustments? More
medication? More dietary changes for mom? All suggestions would be
appreciated.
Ann Calandro,RNC,IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:37:56 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baby think it over
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Yvonne,
I have seen this baby, and I think it is a wonderful concept. It seems
to work, too!
However, the one I saw had to be Bottle fed! Wish they could figure a
way to make it Breastfeed, but apparently, they haven't found a way to
"trip the switch" with a breast.
Another good program, pairs teens with mothers of young children. The
teen spends overnight 2 or 3 nights with single mom and child(ren). This
appears to be as effective as the doll, although maybe not as demanding
on the teen.
Both of these programs appear to have the desired results...Helping
teens who WANT to become pregnant, to understand the responsibility
involved, and lifestyle changes necessary in the reality of parenthood.
As far as reducing teen pregnancy rates, overall....I don't think it
works. IMO, asking teens to be resposible for reliable contraception
practices before we even let them drive, is ludricrous, and Abstinance
programs are my personal choice for over-all education.
Laura Wright
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:53:59 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: Paladai feeding cup & other cups
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I can't recall the physician's name but she presented a session at Rush
University on this device in the fall of 97. I believe Paula Meier may
have been involved somehow. I will try to find out more from my Chicago
friends and post. I'd love to see something in print on this. Pat Y,
where was the advertisement from? AWHONN is in Chicago this week and
I'll try to see if any of the exhibitors has anything.
Also recently received a sample of a Foley feeding cup and it seems
interesting. Made of soft flexible plastic. I haven't tried it yet, tho.
Has anyone else? The shape is oblong and I am not sure how easily it can
be held and manipulated without spilling. I still prefer to use a small
medicine cup with rounded edges.
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC
Romeoville, IL
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:40:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: baby think it over program
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this is merely one anecdote about this program, but a very poor family at my
church has a teenage daughter, who is the oldest of four. one child is in a
wheelchair, and the teen daughter does a great deal of the care of the three
younger ones (all boys). she must be about sixteen, if that. last christmas
she had one of those dolls with her, which i thought was rather ridiculous,
if she couldn't see what the concept was just from her own situation, then
she never would.
well, she obviously couldn't, because she is pregnant, due in august. when i
tried to have a little chat about breastfeeding she just made a face and
said, "oh, i couldn't do THAT" in a tone of disgust.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
www.breastfeedinghelp.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:34:36 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ursula Leguin's parents
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Someone wrote: "Ursula Le Guin is the daughter of Theodore Kroeber."
Actually, Ursula is the daughter of ALFRED and THEODORA Kroeber. Alfred
was the anthropologist, Theodora was his fine wife.
:)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:58:09 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: reflux?
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<< This MD says he diagnoses 10-11 cases of breastmilk allergy every month >>
well, i would't take my dog to him, then. but the important thing to remember
about reflux is that the meds only help one specific type of problem that
causes reflux (delayed gastric emptying) and the meds don't always help that.
this business of saying "reflux" and prescribing meds and figuring that is
all there is to the story is just sloppy medicine. this mother and baby need
to be seeing some specialists (here in denver there is a feeding clinic at
the children's hospital), for a start. of course breastfeeding is best,
children with true reflux do best on breastmilk, it is far less irritating
than any other food.
and of course this baby could also have some food sensitivities as well, or
other medical problems, so there needs to be a good evaluation.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
www.breastfeedinghelp.com (me on the web)
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:51:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Linda J. Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: real computer scam/virus warning
Comments: To: LACTNET <[log in to unmask]>,
Kay Hoover <[log in to unmask]>, Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: cc: Carol Ryan <[log in to unmask]>, Carol Kolar <[log in to unmask]>,
Karen Gromada <[log in to unmask]>, Amy Spangler <[log in to unmask]>,
Marsha Walker <[log in to unmask]>,
Martha Grodrian <[log in to unmask]>,
Nancy Schweers <[log in to unmask]>, Pardee Hinson <[log in to unmask]>,
Pris Bornmann <[log in to unmask]>,
Sheila Sanders <[log in to unmask]>,
Sue Ann Kendall <[log in to unmask]>,
Terriann Shell <[log in to unmask]>,
Vergie Hughes <[log in to unmask]>,
USNBC Listserv <[log in to unmask]>,
Hannah and Kim Boswell <[log in to unmask]>,
Barbara Hotelling CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Deanne Williams CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Deb Woolley CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Doris Haire CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Faith Gibson CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Henci Goer CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Ina May Gaskin CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Jay Hathaway CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Joy Grohar CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Karen Salt CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Linda Herrick CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Mayri Sagady CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Pat Burch CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Pat Turner ICEA CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Rae Davies CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Roberta Scaer CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Sharon Wells CIMS <[log in to unmask]>,
Sharron Humenick CIMS <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
Coach Smith here with a true danger warning. DO NOT open or click on any web
site in any e-mail message that does not have a "dot-com" or other
dot-address. If you are sent a site URL with a string of numbers, possibly
with percentage signs interspersed, and without a dot-address, DELETE IT
IMMEDIATELY.
PCWorld magazine says "Dotless addresses make hunting down the location or
registered owner of a scam sit much harder. That obstacle makes it more
difficult for users to report an offending site to its hosting service or to
authorities. And when you click on such a link, you open up a Pandora's box
of security and privacy hazards."
This is not a joke. Opening unknown attachments to e-mail is always risky
because of imbedded viruses, but this is the first click-on trap that I've
seen. My husband Denny is a computer professional with extensive experience
in data security, and he warned me about this over the weekend when I
received a SPAM e-mail with a dotless address.
Linda J. Smith, BSE, FACCE, IBCLC
Bright Future Lactation Resource Centre
Dayton, OH USA
http://www.bflrc.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:16:59 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gastritis/Reflux
In-Reply-To: <004601beb73a$6a7fd020$5bc5f7a5@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Ann - what a story of over-intervention, poor little baby......
This baby is growing well.
He spits up - so do all babies to some degree. Do the parents know what
would be normal? If the baby is in pain or discomfort, there could be
several reasons why - but don't we need to know why the parents think the
baby seems in pain? Is he wriggling and fussing because of fast let down,
long time crying before feeding, being made to come off breast too soon,
doesn't like head being held....or what???
It sounds as if you have (very sensibly) tried the simple things by
adjusting the way the baby feeds, but sometimes adjustments need time to
work...and maybe the baby needs two breasts at a feed now. Are the parents
happy with baby-led pacing and timing of feeds?
>Parents tried reflux
>meds which did not seem to make a difference, I believe propulsid and
>reglan. They were trying to just go with this and have weekly weight checks.
>Baby gained only one ounce last week
You'd expect this in a baby who is piling on the weight so well! And as you
suspect, it could be more to do with the change in scale than anything
else....
>Went to see pediatric gastroenterologist last week who diagnosed breastmilk
>allergy.
Uhoh.
>Told them to take baby off breast for 72 hours, pump milk and feed
>predigested.
Uhoh again.
> Parents decided to try. Baby refused to drink from bottle,
>refused predigested. They were only able to get small amounts in her (5
>ounces in 24 hours). They went back to gastroenterologist. He said baby had
>blood in stool. Dad looked at test, could not see a positive reaction. No
>obvious blood. Dr. scoped the baby. Said, sorry it is not breastmilk
>allergy, it is gastritis from reflux. Severe redness in throat and
>esophagus.
Yeah - probably from the formula.
>This MD says he diagnoses 10-11 cases of breastmilk allergy every month.
You mean over-diagnoses it....I am sorry to sound cynical, but do we really
believe that? And his solution when he suspects this is to poke this poor
little baby about in the mouth and throat, and hunt for blood in the
stool, worrying the heck out of everyone....
These parents will have been made even more frantic by this sort of
over-doctoring.
My suggestions - and that's all they are, because I accept that of course
there is a chance this baby does need specialist assessment - is for the
mother (and the dad, too) to get some decent TLC, and instead of trying to
solve this baby's spitting and fussing by doing something different every
day, to just go with the flow a bit. Feed the baby when he wants, for as
long as he wants, on one two three or however many sides he seems to
want...to wrap him in a cloth for the spit up and to stop beating herself
up.
Personally - and this is very personal and very UK-ish! - I wouldn't even
bother with the dairy-free diet for the mother. Just let her eat and drink
what she wants. Try and enjoy life, and get over this bad experience. She
has a spitty, fussy baby. He will get better in time, and she will learn
better to cope.....
I'd love to hear other thoughts on this. Am I being *too relaxed* about
this, then?
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:14:56 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: paladai
>It is
essentially a small cup with a pour spout -- it looks like a tiny gravy
tureen. <
I suddenly recognised this description -- this is essentially a pap boat -- used
in the 18th and 19th centuries for feeding babies with pap (flour and water or
bread and water or milk). See Valerie Fildes, 'Bottles, Breasts and Babies'. I
also have pictures in a small book on 'The Victorian Chemist and Druggist' in
the Shire museum series.
Isn't interesting that this design has resurfaced? I wonder what the history of
the Indain design is?
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN, UK
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:38:22 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gastritis/Reflux
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This still sounds more like reflux to me. Did the GI do any specific allergy
tests (Ig levels etc?) Maybe they should think about a second opinion vis a
vis reflux.
L. Shaw MD
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:45:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Dianne Renaud <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: messages
Comments: To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Not receiving total message only intro
can you help
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:46:48 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Dianne Renaud <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: messages
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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CAn anyone help me with this problem?
I am receiving introduction but not messages
How do I reapply to receive news on lactnet?
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:16:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breaking my own rule...but...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This I received today,and I think we should be aware of this. Please do not
send other virus notes to Lactnet, but in light of the past experiences with
Happy99 Exe, I 'd like to nip this in the bud.
Kathleen
---------------
Worm.ExploreZip
---------------
By now, you have probably heard about the "Worm.ExploreZip" virus.
According to Microsoft,
[t]he virus is contained in a file attached to an e-mail. The e-
mail message may appear as if it is from an acquaintance and will
contain the following text:
Hi <recipient's name>
I received your email and I shall send you a reply ASAP.
Till then, take a look at the attached zipped docs.
Bye.
The attachment to this message is an executable file named
"zipped_files.exe".
[quote borrowed from the nice folks at
http://www.microsoft.com/misc/data/emailvirusalert.htm ]
If you execute the "zipped_files.exe" file, it will do some nasty
things to your computer ... like erase all of your Microsoft Word and
PowerPoint files, and even propagate itself by sending email with the
infected "zipped_files.exe" file to a number of recipients.
Who is vulnerable? According to the Computer Emergency Response Team
(CERT) at Carnegie Mellon University, this virus affects everyone who
uses Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows NT. You can read CERT's
advisory on this virus (CERT calls it a Trojan Horse, everyone else
calls it a worm virus) at
<A HREF="http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-06-explorezip.html">
http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-99-06-explorezip.html </A>.
ZDNN reports that some Mac users may also be vulnerable. According to
Carey Nachenberg, chief researcher at Symantec Corp.'s AntiVirus
Research Center, Macs must meet a narrow set of criteria to be
vulnerable to the computer virus:
A Mac must be connected to an infected Windows computer
over a file-sharing network, he said, or the malicious e-mail
file must have been opened through a PC-emulation program.
In addition, he said, the names of the vulnerable Mac files must
bear Windows-compatible file-name extensions, such as .doc, .ppt,
.hsm, .xls and others.
[for the full story, read "Macs can contract ExploreZip, too!" at
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2274574,00.html ]
Regardless of your operating system, how can you protect yourself from
the Worm.ExploreZip virus (and from the tens of thousand of other
viruses out there)? Well ...
1. BREATHE! This really isn't as bad as you might think (or as
the media would have you believe).
2. UPDATE YOUR VIRUS DEFINITIONS IMMEDIATELY, AND CONTINUE TO
UPDATE YOUR VIRUS DEFINITIONS ON A REGULAR SCHEDULE (AT LEAST
ONCE A WEEK). Every major antivirus software manufacturer has
released a virus update that recognizes and removes the
Worm.ExploreZip virus. If you are unsure of how to update
your virus definitions, visit the homepage of your antivirus
software manufacturer (you can find a complete list of most of
these manufacturers at http://www.yahoo.com/ -- AOL users can
find more information by visiting keyword "virus").
If you don't have an antivirus program installed on your
computer, STOP READING THIS EMAIL, get into your car, drive to
Wal Mart (or your local software store), and buy yourself the
latest copy of Norton AntiVirus.
3. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (ARE YOU STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN
HERE?), NEVER EVER DOUBLE-CLICK (OR LAUNCH) *ANY* FILE,
ESPECIALLY AN EMAIL ATTACHMENT, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE FILE IS
FROM, UNTIL YOU FIRST SCAN THAT FILE WITH YOUR ANTIVIRUS
PROGRAM.
To survive in this digital age, you have to treat all computer
files downloaded from the Net, and especially all files
attached to email letters, as the digital equivalent of letter
bombs. Open one without first verifying its contents, and you
will die.
... well, your computer will die. You get the point. :)
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:53:24 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Have you ever "detailed" Docs re breastfeeding?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Patrica--
Thanks for all the neat ideas. I have a trifold, and also a 2 sided
card (1/3 cut card stock) with an offer for a free prenatal consultation
for the working mom who wishes to bf and must return to work. I'm
hoping to help them find out about really effective pumps rather than
the discount store ones, soon enough to keep their supplies up. Seen a
number in the last year who didn't make it because they couldn't get
enough milk to make it seem worth while using the battery powered ones.
Thanks again,
Melinda
>
> Dear Melinda, this sounds like a really good idea.
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:47:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: sara allen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Milk Bank near N.Y.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 1:12 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 14 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-25)
Hi everyone I,m looking for a milk Bank in the upstate NY area. Daughter is
wanting to donate breastmilk this fall after baby is born. Would like info
rerguarding this . Sally B.F.C.
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:55:54 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: michelle i scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Paladai feeding cup & other cups
Comments: To: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
I have been using the Foley cup and 3 clients have tried it for temporary
use. It works like the Medela cup feeder and is MUCH cheaper at about
$2.00 per cup.
Michelle Scott, RD,MA,IBCLC in NH
I can't recall the physician's name but she presented a session at Rush
University on this device in the fall of 97. I believe Paula Meier may
have been involved somehow. I will try to find out more from my Chicago
friends and post. I'd love to see something in print on this. Pat Y,
where was the advertisement from? AWHONN is in Chicago this week and
I'll try to see if any of the exhibitors has anything.
Also recently received a sample of a Foley feeding cup and it seems
interesting. Made of soft flexible plastic. I haven't tried it yet, tho.
Has anyone else? The shape is oblong and I am not sure how easily it can
be held and manipulated without spilling. I still prefer to use a small
medicine cup with rounded edges.
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC
Romeoville, IL
begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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`
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:05:50 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Lora L. Horn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: not exactly BF related - Ezzo and Dr. Laura
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I was listening to Dr. Laura on Friday, and she received a call from a
mother who's mother-in-law was not understanding of the way they were
raising their children. "I don't know if you've heard of Growing Kids God's
Way?" she asked.
Dr. Laura had, and immediately proceeded to how she didn't agree with
the idea of telling a child when to be hungry or tired. She clearly stated
that this is not a new philosophy, it was just recently attributed to God.
The woman emphasized that it was not rigid and if the children weren't
tired, they didn't have to go to sleep "they were just 'guidelines.'" Dr.
Laura discussed the potential problems for a couple of minutes with her
about teaching a child to watch a clock more than themselves, but then in
her exasperated tone said "tell me about your problem."
Mother in law didn't understand the frustration of going to visit for
the day because by the time the kids were up and she fed them and drove a
half hour over there, it was time to turn around and put them down for their
naps. It was great how she again spent time on the rigidity issue and how
relationships are more important. It was obvious the woman wasn't going to
abandon it all from one phone call, it seemed like she had some stuff to
think about. Dr. Laura suggested that she follow her "schedule" (with a
slight tone in there letting her know there was still some disapproval) when
she was at home, but when she went out to visit family to put the
relationship over the schedule and let them enjoy each other.
Hopefully the mother will decide to follow that, and it will open the
door to allowing her to enjoy her children in other ways, without worrying
about the schedule. Hopefully, she gave others something to think about
also.
Lora Horn
Pasadena, CA
__________________________________
"The services which mothers and fathers habituallly render their children
are so taken for granted that their magnitude is forgotten. In no other
relationship do human beings place themselves so unreservedly and so
continuously at the disposal of others." --John Bowlby
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:11:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Michael Reeder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Male lactation
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Philip, the author of the book which dicusses this idea was saying that m=
en
are physiologically capable of lactating, (they have the hardware) just n=
ot
hormonally primed for it (they don't have the software, does this analog=
y
work??) and it sounds like many men are not psychologically interested.
(no prolactin here??) It sounds like you personally have strong feelings
about this discussion, and that is fine, but I am assuming that you have =
an
open mind and would be sensitive with the people that you work just in ca=
se
you do encounter a man that thinks it sounds interesting. =
BTW, I loved your vocabulary, it was quite interesting to read your
post. Do you have to talk more simply to someone less educated in your
work, or does everybody in your part of the world talk like this?? =
Still raining and cold in CH =
Merilee =
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:46:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: T Pitman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby think it over
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Okay, I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice here. I don't like these
dolls that simulate crying babies. I understand the purpose is to show teens
that taking care of a baby is challenging, but I frankly don't believe it is
effective in reducing pregnancy rates.
And I think that if teens (who will more than likely become parents one day,
if not now) believe in the experience they have with this doll, they are
less likely to be interested in breastfeeding and attachment-type parenting.
Because you don't fall in love with a doll, you just feel annoyed about the
noise it makes in the middle of the night. The teacher's guide to use with
the doll (at least the one I've seen) tells the student how much better it
is to have a baby when you are older because then you can afford more
options - babysitters, swings to soothe baby, etc. The concept is that
babies are so difficult and unpleasant that you won't want to be around them
much, so don't have a baby until you're sure you can get someone else to
look after it as much as possible. (Okay, some exaggeration here, but...)
And while breastfeeding might be good for the baby, it would clearly tie you
down way too much (as when the teen was the only one who could "feed" the
baby) so bottlefeeding is obviously preferable.
The reality is that a baby can be exhausting and challenging, but they are
also a source of great pleasure and inspire intense feelings of love. My
daughter, who is 20, has spent a lot of time around babies, and loves and
enjoys them and looks forward to having her own. But it is precisely because
she finds such pleasure in babies that she didn't want to have one as a
teen, because she felt she wouldn't be able to give it all that it needed at
that time.
Teresa Pitman
Oakville, Ontario
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:15:27 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby think it over
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Okay, I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice here.
And me, Teresa.
We have had similar programmes here - and the UK has the dubious
distinction of having the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. Much
wringing of hands every couple of months by government and so on...to no
avail.
I have never seen any decent evaluation of the dolls (ie do they, or do
they not, increase or decrease the teen pregnancy rate?)
I agree that the presentation of babies as a burden and a chore is
artificial and not very pleasant. It could also work against bf, and is in
any case it does not offer a very positive case for it.
Yes, many teens do have a starry-eyed view of babies and motherhood. So do
many older women. So what?
The reasons why teens become pregnant are far, far more complex....often,
it's to do with self-esteem, poor life choices and prospects, their own
mothering, sheer recklessness, a mistake, poor judgement....do we really
think 24 hours with a doll can combat all of that? Or even any of it?
Sorry - off-topic.
Heather Welford neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:13:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Andrea Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gastritis/Reflux
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> Personally - and this is very personal and very UK-ish! - I wouldn't even
> bother with the dairy-free diet for the mother. Just let her eat and drink
> what she wants. Try and enjoy life, and get over this bad experience. She
> has a spitty, fussy baby. He will get better in time, and she will learn
> better to cope.....
>
> I'd love to hear other thoughts on this. Am I being *too relaxed* about
> this, then?
If this baby does have reflux, then of course he should be treated
appropriately. That said...
My daughter was fussy and spit up often. (Dairy elimation didn't help but
orange juice elimation did help get rid of her diaper rash.) For weeks she
would nurse for hours straight (it was that or scream) in the evening, then
toss up what appeared to be every drop she had consumed. After these
festivities she would nurse one last time, very nicely, and sleep for
several hours. I think it's very fortunate that she was my second child.
It was an incredibly stressful time, but I knew she was feeding and filling
out well and just settled in to wait for her to get past this stage. (She
did. Although she, like her mother, can still throw up very easily.) If she
had been my first child, before I had some information and confidence and a
little bit more "relaxation" under my belt, I have no doubt that we would
have had our own chair in the ped's office and who knows what all we would
have gone through.
Just my experiences with a similar situation.
10-11 babies a month with "breastmilk allergy"?? Feh.
Andrea Simmons
St. Louis MO, USA
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:33:17 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gastritis/Reflux
In-Reply-To: <005701beb6aa$c28a6d60$2c0560d1@kurtsimm>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>If this baby does have reflux, then of course he should be treated
>appropriately. That said...
Well, Andrea, the baby, as I said, may need help....but I think you would
be hard-pressed to find a paed in the UK who would treat a 6 week old baby
*apparently thriving breastfed baby* for reflux....though some might give
formula fed babies a 'thickener' and I *very occasionally* hear of a bf
baby being given this, too, though not at 6 weeks. I have not heard of drug
treatment being offered unless of course the baby is not thriving. And this
baby was.
It is not a common diagnosis at all...could my UK colleagues confirm this?
We call 'em 'sicky babies' and they are treated, if at all,
conservatively....by wrapping them in a cloth after feeds : )
Mothers, though, do need a lot of support and reassurance with these
babies, and some practical suggestions can help, too.
I am not saying we have it right here - just observing. However, I still
think that nothing in the original case indicates the need for taking the
baby off breast milk....
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:30:54 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: leaving
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I'm reluctantly going no mail for the rest of the summer. Between
conferences and a recent opportunity to become wardrobe mistress for our
civic light opera with three big shows during June (Jesus Christ,
Superstar), July (Follies), and late August (Kismet), I'm unable to keep up.
But I'll be back! Please email me privately if there's something you'd like
to ask about.
Jacie in hot and dry Albuquerque, New Mexico in the great American
Southwest
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:02:50 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melissa V. Kirsch" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Eckert Drugstore Contest
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Just read this: Eckerd Drug stores are accepting nominations for women
who have made extraordinary contributions to their communities. Ballot
deadline is 7/15. Each drug store will accept a local winner. 100
winners will be chosen from those 3000 and receive a $1000 grant in her
name to her nonprofit organization and a website to publicize her
volunteer efforts.
How about nominating all the hardworking BF volunteers (like our Pat
Young whose been a LLLL for over 30 years.)?
Melissa Kirsch
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:16:22 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gastritus/Reflux
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Heather,
>Well, Andrea, the baby, as I said, may need help....but I think you would
>be hard-pressed to find a paed in the UK who would treat a 6 week old baby
>*apparently thriving breastfed baby* for reflux
{snip}
>I have not heard of drug
>treatment being offered unless of course the baby is not thriving. And this
>baby was.
Only can only confirm this from personal experience. My first and third
babies had reflux. My first baby had it severely, as well as screaming
colic for the first 18 weeks of life. I lived in the doctors office with
my first, but to no avail. His only "advice" was that...guess what?...My
baby was allergic to my breastmilk. Ho hum. I ignored the advice and
changed doctors. Emma grew out of it before I got any treatment. We
survived, but she was difficult for the first 2 years really.
Subsequently, I've met literally dozens of mothers in my local area with
similar problems. Many are advised to stop breastfeeding, and put the
baby onto soy formula, and most take that advice. I have yet to meet a
baby who has been cured as a result, however :-^
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:07:54 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby Think It Over
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Helen,
>Yes, many teens do have a starry-eyed view of babies and motherhood. So do
>many older women. So what?
I totally agree with you. Teens live in the world and they see adults
struggling for years on infertility treatments and doing virtually
anything for a baby. They see us cooing over babies and giving up
everything else in our lives to have one, and then we say that it's
horrible and they wouldn't want to do it. Excuse me?
I would strongly recommend any of you that have time to do a search on
teen pregnancy on the WWW - I did and it was a true education. One of
the points that teens themselves frequently bring up is the sheer
hypocrisy of such schemes. I was shocked to read that when teens meet
teenage mothers, in those programs to educate them as to "what it's
really like", they tend to admire the teen mother as a suffering heroine
- the impoverished Madonna who has sacrificed her life for her child.
They see it as something to *aspire* to! So many of these schemes are
backfiring (one even resulted in an *increased* teen pregnancy rate).
Kind of suggests to me that our approach is all wrong...not that I am
saying I have the answers either.
I also wonder about the emphasis, on what I personally would consider
"detached" parenting, that teens are taught in these programs. Babies
are presented as a burden and there is a lot of talk about the
difficulty of making up feeds and "getting up for night feeds"
(personally, I just roll over on my side for "nightfeeds"). When I was
training as a nurse, a few years ago, I remember vividly having to do a
project to work out how cheaply we could buy "essential" baby equipment.
Our list included a crib, bottles, sterilizer, a baby carriage, baby
walker and pacifiers. FWIW, when I finally did become a mother myself, I
didn't use any of this stuff. Purely for the sake of balance, I think
teens should be taught about Attachment Parenting. It's cheaper, apart
from anything else! :-)
One major concern I have about the "Baby Think it Over" is that real
babies are human beings, not mechanical devices that annoy you. Real
babies have feelings and their social needs are nearly as important as
the physical needs. I think teens would be less inclined to get pregnant
if they really understood that bringing a baby into the world is
bringing a new person into the world.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:57:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: America's Health Network
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Is there anyone that is familiar with America's Health Network? Well, I have
fallen upon their "Ask the Pediatrician" with Dr. Alix Casler numerous times.
This one time I decided to visit their website. I knew before hand that
this doctor is not very pro-breastfeeding to begin with but I was hoping for
a better site with better information. Here is the site
<A HREF="http://www.ahn.com/content/content_get.asp?keycode=2212A">AHN.com -
Formula feeding
</A> They mention little about breastfeeding making it out to be equal to
formula. (unreal). I have written a letter already expressing my
disappointment. I corrected their misinformation about breastfeeding.
Dr. Alix Casler claims to be a member of the AAP but clearly goes against and
does not follow the AAP recommendations about breastfeeding. She is a
"Ferber Fanatic" along with early solids starter (she recommends 3 months
and claims the AAP does also) She also tends to diagnose every baby that
spits up with Reflux.
Is there anyone willing to look into this and write letters to get them to
put "correct" breastfeeding information on their website?
Thank you,
Chris Tharion
Belchertown, MA
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:30:18 -0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: linedancer <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Subject: Dr. Wootan
I'm a bit behind in reading the posts. I just came arcross the discussion
of Dr. Wootan's article on the internet. I am the Associate Director of the
Medical Associates Program of La Leche League International. Dr. George
Wootan is NOT a member of the program.
Lynne Swoope, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:43:58 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Carmen Cabrer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dame teta
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I was telling a friend of mine what happened over the weekend with my 9 year
old. She suggested I share it with you guys...here it goes:
This weekend I decided to "clean" last year school books so I could sell
them today at an used book fair, as I usually do every year. When I got to
my 9 year old books I started complaining of the little notes he always
writes on his books (making me spend days with an erraser in hand...very
hard when you got carpal tunnel...ja,ja,ja). Every time I saw a page that
had something written on I told him that if he did the same next year I was
going to spank him and he replied..."yeah mom,,," because he knows I would
not really spank him. Then I got to his science book, which was the worst
of all...notes all over the place. When I got to the chapter of mammals
(which I had a fit with the publisher at the beginning of the school year,
since they define mammals as animals with hair!!!) there was a picture of a
baby crying and Shawn (my son) had written on it "Mama, dame teta" which in
spanish means "mom, give me the breast". My heart just melted right
away...if this is how he thinks, he can write his little notes wherever he
wants!!!
Carmen Cabrer, LLLL, IBCLC
[log in to unmask]
www.prlacta.org
San Juan Puerto Rico
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:56:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: lisa mooney RN <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 14 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-26)
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In my reading of Breastfeeding and Human Lact. it cites a case of a mom who
had to eliminate every single dairy product in her diet, not just milk,
before she saw an improvement in her baby. Just wondering , for
clarification, if this mom cut out all dairy products ? ( The mom with the
baby suffering from "reflux") Lisa Mooney, RN, BSN, CLE
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:06:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: how contagious is chickenpox in babies?
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I'm planning another Walking Wounded group for this Friday (a
get-together for clients, so they can support one another). But one
of the moms has a 5 week old daughter who was exposed to chicken pox a
while back and who will still be within her potentially contagious
period on Friday. The exposure amounted to visiting in the same room
with her 3 year old cousin, who touched the top of her head at one
point. That's it.
The mom is hesitant about coming, because she doesn't want to put the
other babies at risk. All of the babies are being supplemented but
are at least half breastfed, none is over about 3 months of age. I
told the mom I'd check w/ the other moms, but that I figured her risk
of exposing them was pretty darn small. What do you think? Seems to
me it's virtually zero, given her own level of exposure, her age, the
ages of the other babies, and the fact that she'll be in mom's lap the
whole time.
What do you think?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:14:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Baltimore
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I am looking for someone in the Baltimore, MD area who can give me some info.
I may be relocating there and would appreciate any info about it and about
IBCLC job opportunities there.
Please Email me privately.
Amanda Copeland, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:32:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judi Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 14 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-25) Foley
Cup
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We use the foley cup in our hospital. In fact, I used one today. Moms and
Dads have a much easier time not spilling precious breast milk than they do
with the medicine cup. Also, the little "spout" helps them not fear choking
the baby. I do agree that anything other than breastfeeding is inferior, but
this sometimes helps us keep the baby away from the dreaded supplemental
formula. In today's case, the baby was sleepy and jaundiced. The Mom had
worked for hours trying to get the baby to nurse. This was her second baby
and she knew what she was doing. We had a two day old who had not had a
stool in 24 hours, only 1 wet diaper and very questionable feeds. She was
scheduled for discharge, but was terrified that the baby was not eating. We
had her pump about 1/2 ounce of colostrum and used the cup to feed it to the
baby. She was so reassured that she had plenty of "food" for her baby.
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:26:38 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: day care and breastmilk concern
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I think the bottom line is that all milk needs to be labeled. If you have a
severly dairy allergic child on formula and they receive the wrong formula
this could be life threatening. Every bottle should be checked before given.
Ruth Solomon, RN, IBCLC
Harrisburg, PA
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:40:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judi Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 14 Jun 1999 - Special issue (#1999-
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Foley cup bought in bulk only costs about $1.00 each.
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:19:12 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: science fiction males
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In the USA, some years ago, the FOX network had a show called Alien Nation.
It was very thoughful, but advertised as something else. No one watched it.
Aliens from another planet were a minority group in the US. The plots
revolved around a pair of male cops, one alien, one average Joe.
Average Joe learned a lot. The aliens shared gestation (first mom, then
dad)and breastfeeding. Joe had to get over his partner toughening up his
nipples and dealing with pregnancy in three-piece paternity wear. Alien dad
was fighting for a daycare at
the police station so he could be near his baby girl and bf.
Their babies require body contact with both parents at birth. After a rough
police fight, baby is born prematurely and average Joe has to snuggle up to
his partner and child to save the baby's life. Surrogate mother alien.
The show had lots of creative twists: a third gender required for
conception(average was invited to the ceremony), a drug that couples could
take to pair bond them for life (better than oxytocin apparently), the
aliens had been slaves, so were struggling in many ways.
Everyone will now be hunting for it in re-runs.
Pam Easterday [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:02:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Baby think it over
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The school where I spent some time this spring in my internship had this
program and what bothered me ( of course it would since I am the BFing
fanatic!) is that the baby dolls have bottles that turn off the crying when
the baby is fed.The bottle has a long nipple that hits a trigger in the
doll's mouth/throat to turn off the crying. So the student will associate
feeding with a bottle with satisfaction and a peaceful baby.
And of course the teacher could not see what the problem is. She said the
student could pretend it was expressed breast milk in the bottle!
Barb Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:03:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 10 Jun 1999 to 11 Jun 1999 - Special issue
(#1999-6)
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Help. Is there any medication out there that helps moms letdown to a pump?
Used to be syntocinon, but that is not available anymore, at least not where
I live. Thanks. Loni Denman, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:19:02 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Employee Lactation Centers
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The East Carolina University School of Medicine would like some information
on the types of lactation centers for employees that other School of
Medicines, hospitals and Health care facilities offer. Can anyone who works
in a facility with a Lactation Center/Room please email me some info on your
facility, number of employees, number of pumps available, rooms available,
equipment offered, and perks such as pumping breaks, reinbursements for pumps
and/or kits, and LC consults offered.
Our entire hospital, School of Medicine and assorted clinics has about 6000
employees total and has 3 lactation rooms, each with 2 pumps which the
employees must share with patients. Employees often has to walk 20 min from
their job site to the lactation room to pump and then arrive to discover a
patient is using the pump ( they get first priority) or another employee.
One of the Med students is working on a proposal to improve this facilities
for employees and students.
( And you all know how supportive this facility is to breastfeeding!!!!!)
We appreciate your help.
Barb Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
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