Good morning, Lactnetters, The discussion is getting pretty interesting but I am not convinced after 35 years working in a hospital and married to an obstetrician that hospitals are really bad places for mothers to give birth, or babies to start life. We have a long way to go - but then we've come a long way, also. I know that home births have come a long way from what they used to be when my husband was born on the kitchen table in his parents small farm house after which his mother bore the effects of that birth for a lifetime. Not all doctors and nurses are unfeeling professionals who are incapable of functioning as 'doulas'. Yesterday, I helped an obstetrician and two nurses spend the morning bathing a stillborn baby, dressing her in a lovely baby dress (purchased by the nurses), putting a little gold ring on her finger (purchased by the Dr.) and helping the mother, father and eight siblings hold and say goodbye to this little baby. We took pictures, made hand molds, cried with them and tried to help the youngest understand something that none of us understood. Last week I helped a mother gently put her baby to breast for the first and last time, as we shared a box of Kleenex. The baby had a problem incompatible with life and died peacefully in her mother's arms, at her breast, surrounded by those family members invited to come. Would it have been better at home? I don't know, but I do know that in this case, it wasn't possible. I am a Lamaze certified childbirth educator, an RN from an NICU, and an IBCLC. I have spent 35 years trying to make birth and breastfeeding within the hospital setting be more human, humane and "natural" if you like that term. However, to use epidurals as an example, I can tell you that all the education in the world about the problems associated with epidurals, and knowing all the other non-intervention, non-pharmaceutical tools for dealing with a normal labor, does not convince the majority of mothers experiencing pain not to have the epidural. Even after careful education about risks, benefits, and exploring other ways of dealing with normal labor, the bottom line is: many moms deliver in the hospital specifically so they CAN have an epidural. Nobody (at least in our hospital) stands around with the epidural kit in their hands pleading with the mom to have one. This decision is still up to the couple, and those who are advocates of home birth are just as negative about this choice as the medical personnel tend to be about the decision to have a home birth. The same is true of breastfeeding. I am obviously a true supporter and believer in breastfeeding, kangaroo care, mother's milk over ABM, etc. But if, after careful explanation and education, a mother chooses to bottle feed with ABM, I will bow to that decision and help her dry up. I may not like her decision, and feel in my heart that it is not a good way to go from any standpoint you look at, but it is not my choice to make. One cannot stand over a mother and insist that she breastfeed (or take her folic acid, or stop drinking during pregnancy, or put seat belts on her three year old, or put the baby to bed on his back) Like all other health and human issues, breastfeeding remains a personal and private choice which we can improve and facilitate but not mandate. My complaint is when a mother has chosen to breastfeed and either she, herself, or the nurses, or her doctor, or a family member sabotage that decision with poor advice and information. Deanne (again) *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html