While I agree the jury probably had more than the snippets the media fed to
us, I would like to add that it is sometimes so very hard for a mother to
notice a baby is starving.
A very close friend of mine a baby shortly after my daughter was born. Her
baby was failure to thrive due to severe milk and soy protein allergies
(formula fed) and GERD. She born at 6 lbs 11 oz and at 2 1/2 months old
weighed less than 8 1/2 lbs. The baby's mother truly could not see that her
daughter wasn't growing. I saw them at least weekly and could see it and
finally persuaded my friend that the baby needed to get back to the doctor
for a weight check. The baby ended up hospitalized and put on a
prescription formula and a ng tube for night feedings. The point I am
making is that the mother only saw her baby and loved her -- she truly
couldn't see how small and skinny she was. Maybe a bit of that happened to
Ms. Walrund.
I do wonder if any mother whose baby was failure to thrive for the reasons
of my friend's baby (assuming the outcome was like the Walrund baby) would
ever be prosecuted for not feeding her baby adequately. The formula this
baby ended up on (and is still on at well past a year) is fairly new -- I
have no idea what this child would have survived on without it, as I am
quite certain the mother was not going to breastfeed, and donor milk would
likely need to be from a mother avoiding milk and soy proteins. Hmmm.
Rhonda Feder
Elkins Park, PA
lawyer and lay counselor in training (almost through!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 6:25 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 21 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-260)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 01:28:35 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bf handouts
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Dr. Newman has some wonderful handouts that cover many of the subjects you
mention available through www.bflrc. com. I am also in the process of
developing several similar pages for a prenatal and well baby breastfeeding
education program in my workplace. I can be reached at LacNackRNP@ AOL.com ,
if you are interested.
Christine Betzold MSN, RNP, CLE
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 01:38:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mandy O'Reilly RN Rm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hypoglycemia and breastfeeding
In response to the request for references regarding hypoglycemia and
breastfeeding: Midrs Midwifery digest June, 1996 Vol 6, no 2 page 220 to 222
and also in Midrs December 1996 6:2 page 382 -386. These articles are a good
starting point and have additional references.
The following points about neonatal hypoglycemia are worth noting.
All babies drop their blood sugar in the first hour or two after birth and
then it rises to normal levels as the child adapts to extra uterine life.
Healthy neonates have a unique glucose metabolism compared to older babies
and adults. They are able to utilise ketones and their brown fat for energy
stores. As a result they are able to maintain their blood glucose levels
with minimal intervention. The colostrum, the brown fat, the liqour - must
all be part of a unique plan. Nature or the man upstairs of you like knows
how to do things!
Most of the portable blood glucose monitoring devices (if not all) are
unsuitable for monitoring neonatal blood glucose. The under-read horribly
which has everyone rushing for the formula. One needs an accurate lab
reading.
I am aware of hospital policies (in Australia) that do not intervene if a
healthy babe has not breastfed until the first 10 hours are up. Only then is
the blood glucose checked. If is is below 2mmol/l then intervention is
commenced. Fist stop some hand expressed colostrum from mother if possible.
This often does the trick. and you can keep doing it and checking the blood
glucose until babe is ready to feed. (usually every 3 hrs) One would only
resort to a comp feed if the blood glucose was in the region of less than
1 mmol/l or the babes was showing signs of hypoglycemia.
Hypoglycemia occurs in the neonate due to sepsis, illness, shock, poor
temperature control (babe allowed to get cold), asphyxia, diabetic
mother, low birth weight infant ( no brown fat). I think what I am trying to
emphasise is that the healthy babe is really equipped to deal with the
normal variations that we see in breastfeeding patterns in the ist 24 -
48hrs. Survival of the fittest etc.
Regards
Mandy O'Reilly
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 02:17:47 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jones Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bottles and nipple shields; also short tongues
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The lactation consultant who gave the mom a shield may have seen a
"different mother" than the one the LC saw after discharge. Some moms
who can't handle the frustration, are exhausted from labor, getting lots
of different messages, etc. in the hospital may only be able to deal
with bottles and shields, especially if doctors and hospitals are not
100% supportive of other measures. A day or two later, the mother may
be ready for more creative solutions.
A nipple shield has been the short-term solution in one or two cases of
short tongues I have seen.
With regarding to supplementing with a bottle, I have often found that
giving a small amount of formula (up to half the usual feeding) before
the breastfeeding often works better than giving it before the feeding
if mom's supply is low and baby is really hungry. Chele Marmet and/or
Ellen Shell drilled it into us at my lactation educator's course that
"Babies don't learn well when they are hungry." I have found this to be
true. When the baby is only a little hungry, he is more willing to suck
at a breast which he has found to be less than dependable for whatever
reason. For a baby who has become accustomed to bottles, I often keep
the bottle handy and give a few sips now and then throughout the feed
when baby becomes frustrated. It often helps calm the mother as much as
it does the baby. As baby learns that milk comes from the breast and as
mom's milk supply increases (or as she uses a supplementer), the bottle
becomes unnecessary. If baby won't suck even with flow and a partially
satisfied hunger, I usually use a shield for part of a feeding, or a
feeding or two, sometimes longer.
Shields and bottles are tools. They need to be used appropriately, but
sometimes they work well in the overall plan for getting baby feeding
effectively at the breast.
--
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC from the sunny S.W. USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 02:23:58 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Worsening edema
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Any mom who has worsening edema postpartum should be referred to her
doctor. Recently worked with a mom who had had a seizure from PIH 6
days postpartum.
--
Bonnie Jones, RN, ICCE, IBCLC from the sunny S.W. USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:57:45 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond case
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Anna gives an account of post-natal support in the UK, which is, sorry, not
quite accurate any more.
She is right in saying that the Tabitha Walrond case is unlikely to occur
in the UK because our post-natal support would *probably* prevent it.
But daily visits to post-natal mums by midwives are not universal - though
they may still be available in some areas. More generally, the midwife has
*clinical responsibility* for mother and baby up to a possible 28 days. In
most areas this is carried out by the midwife making her own judgement as
to the frequency of visits. In practice, a mum will get a daily visit for
two to three days after discharge, on day 3 (average p/n stay is now about
2.4 days) and then maybe one or two more to day 10, when she transfers care
to the HV, who in practical terms takes over the clinical responsibility.
This is thought to be more flexible - and in some ways it is. I know a
midwife in a poor area of the city who is a terrific bf supporter who
visits some mothers twice a day for as long as she can.
> After the first 10 days, here in
>Britain we are then passed on to a health visitor, who visits regularly
>(according to need) for the first few years of a baby's life).
Rarer than you imply, now, Anna. Some HVs do virtually no home visits at
all after the first one or two, except some places do the developmental
checks in the home as well. However, mothers deemed in need of more
support do get visits, and the great thing is that mothers can and do ask
for home visits. And of course the baby clinic is open and free to all
families with kids under 5.
> I know I
>run the HVs down sometimes, but the system is basically a good one,
>IMHO.
I agree. No mother would ever be left to flounder without care after
discharge. Tragedies are avoided.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:32:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond Story in Today's Salon Magazine
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Dear All, I happened to hear "Mother's who think" on NPR on Fri 5/21. I
was un impressed with what they had to say about BF.
and mothering in general. They are out there on a soap box and it doesn't
sound like a good one. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond Story in Today's Salon Magazine
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Pat wrote:
> Dear All, I happened to hear "Mother's who think" on NPR on Fri 5/21. I
> was un impressed with what they had to say about BF.
> and mothering in general. They are out there on a soap box and it doesn't
> sound like a good one. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
Tell us more!
Janice
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:35:32 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jack Newmans articles
Comments: To: LACTIVIST POST <[log in to unmask]>,
PNATALRN POST <[log in to unmask]>,
Pump List <[log in to unmask]>
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Just to let you know, the following articels of Jacks can be found at :
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn/drjack0.htm
Breastfeeding - Starting Out Right
Colic in the Breastfed Baby
Sore Nipples
Is My Baby Getting Enough Milk?
Using a Lactation Aid
Using Gentian Violet
Breastfeeding and Jaundice
Finger Feeding
You Can Still Breastfeed
Breastfeeding and Other Foods
Some Breastfeeding Myths
More Breastfeeding Myths
Still More Breastfeeding Myths
More and More Breastfeeding Myths
Breast Compression
Starting Solid Food
What to Feed the Baby when the Mother is Working Outside the Home
How to Know a Health Professional is not Supportive of Breastfeeding
Domperidone
Fluconazole {Diflucan}
Breastfeed a Toddler - Why on Earth?
Blocked Ducts and Mastitis
Breastfeeding Your Adopted Baby
Treatments for Problems
Risks of Artificial Feeding
Guilt and Breastfeeding
Interesting Quotes Compiled by Dr. Newman
How Breast Milk Protects Newborns
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:38:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Backlash
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A movement -- whether civil rights, gay rights, religious freedom, women's
rights, or even breastfeeding -- knows that it is making progress in getting
its message across and gaining real power when it generates a backlash from
those on the other side. Salon's article is offensive and ludicrous (ha --
we *wish* hospitals and the medical establishment were pushing breastfeeding
as much as Salon seems to think) -- but it is also a sign that we are making
progress. For an excellent discussion of this process of social change,
read the first chapter of Susan Faludi's book Backlash: The Undeclared War
Against America's Women (1992). This book is about the feminist movement,
but the same principles apply to our work to change the culture of infant
feeding in the US to one that supports and values breastfeeding.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:58:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrund Case
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>us, I would like to add that it is sometimes so very hard for a mother to
>notice a baby is starving.
>
Very good point.
After my twins were born at 36 weeks, my midwife consistently told me
through the next few months that they were too skinny and I should
supplement. I thought they looked fine. And everyone else but her did too.
Looking back on it I can see I was feeding on a schedule for some reason.
Stress I guess. They were gaining a minimum of 4oz a week and I felt that
was enough. Midwife expected them to gain twice that.
A friend of mine who also had twins six months after mine had great
difficulty getting her term babies to gain. one lost weight in a 2-week time
period when they were just a few months old. I saw the babies and thought
they were too thin. Funny, I couldn't see the same in mine. She ended up
supplementing.
My babies eventually did gain and now are around 23 pounds at 19 months.
When my midwife suggested I supplement I asked her if she did not trust my
mother's instinct. Didn't I know what was best for my babies. I remember her
clearly saying, Yes I trust your instinct yet I know that same instinct may
not be rational. She is right....
Patti
(mom to three, mom to nursing 19-mo twins and aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:22:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond Story in Today's Salon Magazine
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I think the Tabitha Walrond case is a sign of our whole society. We always
look to blame after the fact but noone seems to really be looking
preventatively. Reminds me of the Littleton shooting. Everyone is blaming
everyone else after the fact but who was paying attention beforehand.
Apparently other parents were warning authorities about the gunmen but
nothing was done. Just like Tabitha trying to get medical care for her baby.
But let's blame instead of looking for real solutions. Let's convict the
mother instead of trying to restore our fragmented social systems.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Patti c.
(mom to 3, nursing mom to 19-mo twins and aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:30:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Very Negative Article
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Those who do not suit breast-feeding
>should not be made to feel guilty
And guilt does come from within ourselves doesn't it? Why don't women accept
guilt as their own and quit blaming everyone else for it.
PAtti
(mom to three, nursing mom to 19-mo twins and aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 08:38:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: engorgement
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The VERY BEST engorgement info ever published is that of Hill and Humenick
which was published in two articles in JHL in 1994, 10(2). I urge you to
review and add this info to your materials in an appropriate reading level
condensed version. One thing which often alarms mothers is a pattern of
engorgement which is diff. from what they've been led to expect. Hill and
Humenick describe at least four variant patterns, two of which are often
predictive of bfg. problems. I've depended upon this info since I first
read it.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:39:42 -1200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jean Geary <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Salon Article
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Buried towards the end of the Salon article is a paragraph which, IMHO, is
central to the issue, quoted below:-
"Though it's standard practice in most European countries for nurses
or lactation specialists to pay free follow-up visits to new moms, few
American hospitals provide this service. There have been a smattering of
efforts to introduce legislation that would mandate insurance coverage for
such services, but they haven't gotten very far. A California assembly
member introduced a bill last year that would require insurance
to cover birthing classes, breast-feeding classes and post-birth visits
with a lactation consultant, but the measure didn't pass. Even more
problematic is the U.S. government's recommendation that women breast-feed
their newborns for one year, while failing to mandate comparable family
leave policy that enables them to do it. (Even with breast pumps, most
women find it a Herculean task to take a half-hour several times a day to
sit in a bathroom at the office, run an extension cord into the stall,
pump, then store their breast milk in the fridge next to their boss's
leftover Chinese food.) Still, the U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services advises, "Breast milk
should not be withheld from any infant unless absolutely necessary." "
Women are being set up for failure.
Jean Geary
Fundraiser, INFACT Canada
http:///www.infactcanada.ca
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:28:06 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Udder cream
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Victoria asks:
<< An LC has been challenged by a doctor about her info about nipple cream
and says it is perfectly alright ot use Udder Cream
on a mothers nipples and unless she is able to show documentation
against his stand he will not accept her info on Lansinoh. >>
Well, IMHO, it is perfectly OK to use Udder Cream on nursing mothers -- every
one of them that has udders, that is.
Ask the doc if he's willing to put it on a cracker and eat it himself.
Jan Barger who is really tired of HCPs who read bovine literature and apply
it to people, but who won't read people literature and apply it to people.
(These are the same folk that swear by Bag Balm too. Actually, I might use
it on myself -- do you think it would balm the bags under my eyes???)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:53:25 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "bullying" mothers
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I have had a very short time living in California and working with the
Public Health Nurses here - they do make home visits and address many
issues besides physical assessment of mom and baby (safe housing,
educational resources, referrals for counseling of many different types).=
=
(Unfortunately, they don't visit EVERY woman who delivers - something tha=
t
was brought up in our Breastfeeding Task Force by a very frustrated
middle-class dad who wished he could have had their services!)
Do they "bully" a mom when they insist she take her baby to the 2 week
checkup?
Do they "bully" a mom when they repeatedly call her to get her children
vaccinated?
Do they "bully" a mom when they make home visits and insist mom put her
baby on his/her back to sleep?
...you get the idea.
It took many decades to go from "free cigarettes" handed in all the
airplanes (see how old I am!) and white-coated doctors encouraging "low t=
ar
xxxx brand".
Changes in eating habits - lower salt, lower sugar, lower fats - have tak=
en
decades also, and we haven't reached everyone, nor will we ever! Does th=
is
mean we should stop educating, promoting and supporting ("bullying?")???
Not in my opinion!
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, IBCLC, LLLL
Vacaville, CA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:27:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: udder balm
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Victoria:
I believe that Ruth Lawrence disusses this in her book. There are articles
available about anhydrous lanolin and its uses. They may be discussed in the
archives. You also might search utter balm as we probably discussed this in
the early years as well. (RL p 260) discusses lanolin
Patricia
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:34:07 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: HCI
Subject: Walrond: cynicism or realism? (#1999-263)
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I see the Walrond incident as a American cultural (read economic) rejection of
breastfeeding. I wonder what are the commercial influences behind the slant of
the coverage of this situation. Why is the question about the risks of
breastfeeding? Instead, why is there no mention of the risks of "not doing
breastfeeding right?" In the interview, Dr. Lawrence mentions that there are
problems with formula feeding much more frequently than with breastfeeding but
the health system is clever enough to cover the former very well. When the latter
occurs, let's blame the mother: the blame must be assigned somewhere, and maybe
blaming the mother will scare other mothers away from breastfeeding in the
process.
I take issue to the claim that mothers are under pressure to breastfeed. Mothers,
regardless of their level of education and intelligence, will opt for what they
feel they can do for the better of their baby and their own. Infant care is such
an integral part of daily activities that mothers will choose what is easiest (or
shall we say, what is least difficult?) for them to get the job done. They are
not looking for something special or complicated, but for something that will
give a balance to their hectic life. For some, this will mean breastfeeding, for
others, it will be bottle feeding, realizing to the extent of their knowledge and
abilities at the time, the pros and the cons of their decision.
I liken Walrond's and other mothers' experience of the death of their baby
following "breastfeeding" (sorry, I do not believe that breastfeeding kills
babies, hence the quotation marks) to that of someone being expected to pass a
test after having attended one lecture on an unfamiliar topic. The test here is
baby's survival and well-being. The lecture is a class on infant care in general,
and on breastfeeding in praticular, regardless of the competence of the teacher
and the completeness and accuracy of the information (which also weigh in the
test results). It is not difficult to understand why breastfeeding would be
unfamiliar to the mother. While most mothers will pass the test (with varying
degrees of success), it is inevitable that some will fail. And boy, is the system
going to nail those ones!
Why blame the mother when she has attempted to breastfeeding and failed? Easy.
First, how seriously are women's concerns taken in this society? A Black woman?
An uneducated woman? A financially disadvantaged woman? A woman who cannot see
that her baby is undernourished? A woman who has failed the test? Blame the
mother. Second, this society operates on money. I cannot help but see two sides
of a rusted coin: one concerns the money necessary to provide an adequate defense
for this mother. The other is the money to prosecute her, a task which bears a
lot more social consequences as formula feeding will come out victorious in the
end. I wonder from where the money would come for that one! Third, breastfeeding
deprives too many factions (pharmaceutical, medical, dairy industries) from their
share of this nation's wealth: blaming the mother is one easy blow on
breastfeeding. Fourth, we are emotional and impulsive, animals. The immediate
response at the sight of a photograph of an emaciated baby will be to blame the
mother for not seeing the progression of her baby's condition. Despite all
rational examination, this "first impression" is probably not going to change.
Fitfth, we think there is only one solution to any one problem and we limit, by
law if need be, options to those who own the problem. Although the article does
not make it clear as to whether abortion services were available to her, Walton
contemplated this avenue. Was it not pretentious on her part to feel that she was
not ready for motherhood? Does she not have any respect for life? Whose life?
What about hers? Blame the mother for having failed in a test she was not ready
to take in the first place.
The death of a "breastfed" baby does not happen in a vacuum. The Salon article
list factors that contributed to the demise of this baby. How long must we
tolerate this inertia? Meanwhile, how safe and smug society feels to have a
scapegoat!
As you can see, this Salon article has triggered a sensitive button in me. I feel
that women have been handed the short end of the stick for too long, and
sometimes I have to vent it out. Thank you for "listening."
Nicole Bernshaw
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:46:49 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Udder cream
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Am I hearing right?
This Udder Cream (a new one on me) is a product for cows...marketed for
cows....and sold to vets for cows....and some doctors think it is okay to
use for human mothers on their nipples?
The same nipples that a tiny newborn will be taking in their mouths?
And these doctors want documented evidence that it is not a good idea?
Perhaps the doctors would like to smear the same cream not on a cracker but
on a dog biscuit....and eat as a nice snack?
Mmmm! Yummy!
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcstle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:48:16 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: Marie Claire
Comments: To: lactivist <[log in to unmask]>
Just bought the June issue of the UK edition of Marie Claire magazine because of
article mentioned on the cover "Women who breastfeed animals".
The article "Mothers who raise animals as their own children" is about women of
the Bishnoi tribe in Rajasthan in India -- in the desert near where the recent
nuclear tests were conducted -- who have a long tradition of protecting their
environment including rearing orphan black buck antelope with their own milk.
The article talks about how these people avoid outsiders, are strict vegetarians
(not defined what that means) and how the women do most of the work -- including
heavy work -- , marry young and have certain sexual freedoms (they can sleep
with men they fancy and their husband accepts this) BUT -- completely
unremarked by the author of the article the tradition of feeding the deer:
"In remote areas of the desert,,,,Bishnoi women still feed orphaned bucks at the
breast. 'I have seen it myself in villages....But the women are shy and never do
it in front of an outsider'." " 'Bishnoi women used to breastfeed the young
buck. But today we use bottles of milk for our animals and for our children
too.' " The woman speaking "takes a baby's bottle filled with buffalo milk from
under her tight-fitting embroidered choli, or blouse. Shuti has been warming
the milk between her breasts." There is a photo of the deer with the baby
bottle.
I do not know what to think of this article. How tragic that a people so remote
from many influences of modern life and whose values include nurturing the
environment have turned to bottle feeding. How irritating that the journalist
has seen fit to use the breastfeeding angle to sell the magazine. ('Breastfeeds
animals' is pretty emotive stuff.) How utterly bizarre to warm the animal milk
between the human breasts. How interesting that the journalist seems totally
unaware of this irony.......
Magda Sachs
UK
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 12:47:51 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Amy Madsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A Baby Story!
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Hi!
I have seen three homebirths on A Baby Story..
One was a "blended" family - woman with children marries man with children & gives
birth to a child of their own. She was a home waterbirth. :)
Next was a nice blonde woman, had 5 or so kids - spoke at her childs school about
bonding & breastfeeding. Had a homebirth - delivered on her bed. :)
Last - my absolute favorite!
Homebirth - adoptive parents - adoptive breastfeeding! Woo Hoo!!!
A young woman lives with the adoptive family through the last months of her
pregnancy. She delivers at their home, in their bathtub - she holds her baby
briefly then hands her to adoptive mom who is all set with a SNS.. Only downfall is
when adoptive mom is talking about benefits on breastfeeding, what the SNS is & how
it works and how she nursed her first adoptive daughter - but had to stop when she
got teeth..
Grrr! Otherwise a good show.
Amy Madsen
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:29:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrund Case
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<<
While I agree the jury probably had more than the snippets the media fed to
us, I would like to add that it is sometimes so very hard for a mother to
notice a baby is starving. >>
While it is sad that many in the USA and other countries do not have safety
nets for new mothers and babies, I have a real hard time believing that a
mother doesn't notice a three pound weight loss on a newborn.
I work as the staff LC for a large pediatric practice and I see lots of
newborns. I know before the baby is placed on the scale if we have excessive
weight loss. The skin is wrinkled and hanging. I've never seen a newborn
with more weight loss than 28 oz. and I hope I never do. It might be said
that I would notice excessive weight loss more than a mother, BUT THREE
POUNDS, there is no way that could go unnoticed unless a mother was suffering
from depression or mental problems. I can only imagine what this poor baby
must have looked like in the pictures and it makes me sick on my stomach to
imagine it.
While I do not like the tone of Salon's article blaming breastfeeding, I
agree with Kathy D. There was neglect and I'm sure that was made clear to
the jury.
Just MMO,
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and private practice
Orlando, FL
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:21:40 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: hand pumps
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has anyone done comparrisons between the different hand pumps available?
A mother asked about the H/ vs the A hand pumps- both with "flexishields"
thank you,
Patricia
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:21:42 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Walrond: cynicism or realism? (#1999-263)
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I agree with Nicole's assessment of the situation.
There is too much here that smacks of patriarchal control of mother's
bodies.
It reminds me of what a woman has to go through if she has a home birth and
something goes wrong. Never mind that she has carefully chosen her
midwives. Never mind that the same thing could have happened in a hospital.
Never mind that worse things could have happened. If a mother births at
home she accepts full responsibility for the outcome....if it isn't good
she will bear the blame alone. If she birthed in the hospital, took an
epidural, needed a forceps delivery, fed ABM...well, she would be treated
with great tenderness and sympathy if the outcome were not perfect.
When a mom breastfeeds, goes against the cultural norm, she will pay a high
price if that doesn't go well. Never mind if formula feeding kills babies.
Never mind if a baby would die no matter which feeding choice was made. If
she was breastfeeding she clearly is at fault.
This could extend to almost anything. When a baby dies in it's mom's bed it
must be her fault. After all, she was not abiding by the ordained cultural
mores.
I hope this jury did the right thing but...given the fact that they are
from the same bottlefeeding culture that would deny a baby the right to be
fed in public, I am skeptical.
Susan Keith-Hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:39:02 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The AAP is not "the US government"
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This quote from Salon:
>Even more problematic is the U.S. government's recommendation that women
>breast-feed their newborns for one year, while failing to mandate
comparable >family leave policy that enables them to do it.
(1) It is the American Academy of Pediatrics which recommends that women
breastfeed their children for a minimum of one year, and the AAP is not part
of the US government (as least not last I heard)
(2) It does not require one year of family leave to breastfeed your baby
for a year. As long as women claim that work and breastfeeding are
incompatible, few women will breastfeed.
I'm not saying every mother has it easy, and I'm not saying it wouldn't be
great to have better maternity leave and on-site child care and better
pumping facilities. But paid labor outside the home and continued
breastfeeding do not HAVE TO BE incompatible -- we allow/make it so.
Kathy Dettwyler, beating a dead horse, apparently
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:03:07 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walrond: cynicism or realism
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
>I see the Walrond incident as a American cultural (read economic) rejection of
>breastfeeding. I wonder what are the commercial influences behind the slant of
>the coverage of this situation. Why is the question about the risks of
>breastfeeding?
This is driving me *insane*. When I was training as a nurse, I dealt
with several cases of so-called "failure to thrive" babies who were
actually victims of severe neglect (in one case, the mother had severe
PPD, but other mothers didn't have such an excuse). I have also dealt
with several mothers who's babies were desperately ill on formula and
were even unable to tolerate so-called "hypoallergenic" formulas. No one
said they were harmed by bottlefeeding, just that they were sick babies
(they needn't have been IMHO, if they had been breastfed and the mother
had been able to control her diet).
One case that particularly sticks in my mind was a 3mo baby who weighed
under his birthweight. The parents cannot have given him more than two
8oz bottles per day, which they propped (a social worker surprised them
with a visit and discovered this). I remember trying to bottlefeed this
poor baby - he was so weak, he could barely suck and we had to widen the
hole of the bottle teat to allow milk so kind of drip into his mouth. He
had to be tube-fed for what seemed like weeks until he was strong enough
to take the bottle properly. The parents were prosecuted, but I am
afraid I don't know what the outcome was, and the child was fostered out
when he left the hospital.
I suppose if this neglectful mother had been breastfeeding him twice a
day instead of bottlefeeding, breastfeeding would have been blamed?
In that case, ofcourse, it was pretty cut and dried that the parents
were at fault. In the Walrond case, perhaps there is some doubt, but
even so, it shouldn't be breastfeeding that was on trial. Sorry to jump
up and down and preach to the converted, but the fact that this baby was
breastfed is a total red herring!
I will now and nurse my baby in the hope that prolactin will calm me
down. Grrrr!
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:15:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: GJLanc <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Prisons change rules for moms
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This article was in today's Cincinnati Enquirer and discusses the new =
trend of allowing moms in Ohio's prison system to breastfeed their =
infants.=20
I would not have expected such a thing to be "allowed."
Julie Lancaster RN
Melbourne KY
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http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/05/22/loc_prisons_change_rules.html
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>This article was in today's =
Cincinnati=20
Enquirer and discusses the new trend of allowing moms in Ohio's prison =
system to=20
breastfeed their infants. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>I would not have expected such =
a thing to=20
be "allowed."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>Julie Lancaster RN</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>Melbourne KY</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/05/22/loc_prisons_change_rules.=
html">http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/05/22/loc_prisons_change_rules.ht=
ml</A></FONT></DIV>
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:53:00 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Julius Edlavitch MD <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding, Family Planning, Lactational Amenorrhia Method-LAM
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#########################################################
SUNDAY May 23rd, 1999 at 2PM Eastern USA Time (NY TIME)
Breastfeeding, Family Planning, Lactational Amenorrhia Method-LAM
Miriam Labbok, MD, MPH, FACPM, IBCLC
Chief, Nutrition and Maternal/Infant Health Division
Office of Health and Nutrition
United States Agency for International Development
http://www.pedschat.org/lam/sld001.htm
This will be a "JAVA WEBTOUR"
#########################################################
Monday May 24th at 9PM Eastern USA Time
"Minnesota's Lactation Friendly Workplace Program"
Speaker:Joanne M. Wesley, BA, IBCLC
Breastfeeding Special Projects Coordinator
Minnesota Department of Health
BREASTFEEDING CHAT EVERY MONDAY AT 9 PM NY TIME
With Kay Hoover MA ED and Jack Newman MD
##########################################################
Our season is closing and I work very hard to produce some first class
lactation education topics. I would greatly appreciate a good attendance
from my electronic friends here for both Miriam and Joanne.
PLEASE make the effort to support this
Julius Edlavitch MD
International Pediatric Chat
http://www.pedschat.org
"What Wisdom Can One Have That Is Greater Than Kindness"
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:34:32 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: Mothers Who Think Breastfeeding Is Inconvenient, Gross,
and now Deadly
Comments: To: lactivist <[log in to unmask]>
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Since I've been bugging all of you, here's what *I* sent.
Janice
----- Original Message -----
From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: <[log in to unmask]>; <[log in to unmask]>; <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 7:29 PM
Subject: Mothers Who Think Breastfeeding Is Inconvenient, Gross, and now
Deadly
> I'm a longtime reader of MWT, and I'm guessing -- from the dead horse
you're
> beating with your editorial content -- that something kept you (or someone
> close to you) from breastfeeding, or from breastfeeding as long as you'd
> hoped. This happened to me with my first child, whom I breastfed only one
> short week, so I feel your pain. I remember afterward feeling bitter
> satisfaction when others didn't breastfeed, or when they complained about
> the drawbacks of breastfeeding, because it validated my choice.
>
> Perhaps if I'd been working in a position such as yours, I would have used
> my career to work out my unresolved issues. Perhaps, though, I would have
> become concerned -- I hope before the point where I'd printed my sixth (!)
> article painting breastfeeding as a terrible thing -- that I was blurring
> the line between my personal and professional life. "If this strategy is
> really helping me," I hope I would ask myself, "why do I need to keep
doing
> it over and over?"
>
> I wonder if you realize that Salon has established a solid reputation
among
> lactation consultants, breastfeeding-supportive physicians, and
> breastfeeding mothers as being a place where somebody has an axe to grind
> with regard to breastfeeding. So I'm here to say, we feel your pain -- but
> can you perhaps find another way to deal with your emotions about infant
> feeding choices, and present a bit of balance in your coverage?
>
> I spent a lot of time engaged in such bitterness. The turning point came
> when I read the putrid _Bottlefeeding Without Guilt_. I realized that I
> didn't want to be one of those people who goes through life trying to
blame
> others for guilt feelings that came from within me. Projection and denial
> are such dishonest ways of dealing with one's feelings. I realized that I
> could instead use my grief to do something positive -- to learn as much as
> possible about the benefits of breastfeeding, what went wrong in my case
and
> why, and how I could keep that from happening to others.
>
> Karen Houppert's poorly researched article reminded me a lot of
> _Bottlefeeding without Guilt_. It too was a thinly veiled attempt to
escape
> reams of research showing the dangers of formula feeding. Perhaps Houppert
> was on tight deadlines ... or your fact-checkers had the week off ... or,
as
> I hypothesized earlier, you're all blurring the line between personal and
> professional issues.
>
> Ironically, Houppert had an excellent point to make: Women *are* set up
for
> failure by not getting the support, information, and encouragement they
need
> to breastfeed. This is a huge problem, one that the medical profession
> (which gets little or no training on breastfeeding and human lactation, as
> your writer could easily have discovered for herself) needs to address. In
> fact, this lack of knowledge is why Waldrond was not informed -- by the
> doctor who performed her breast reduction, her OB, or any hospital
> personnel -- that breast reduction surgery can affect a mother's milk
> supply. But Houppert didn't tell us that. Instead, she aimed to stretch
her
> point to show that women are bullied into breastfeeding and that such
> bullying was what really killed Tyler Waldrond.
>
> Are women bullied into breastfeeding? Research does *not* support
Houppert's
> assertion of "the complete turnaround on breast feeding by the medical
> establishment in the last 20 years." The most recent survey of
pediatricians
> I've seen, published in the March 1999 issue of _Pediatrics_, showed that
> their knowledge and support of breastfeeding is as dismal as it has been
in
> past surveys. While some doctors today may give lip service to the
"breast
> is best" idea (which they read on the formula cans they were passing out,
I
> guess), few know the first thing about breastfeeding. They fail to inform
> parents about the hazards of artificial feeding. They are quick to
recommend
> supplementation with infant formula. They fail to refer mothers to sources
> of correct information, such as lactation consultants and La Leche League.
>
> Was I bullied into breastfeeding six years ago? Bwahahahaha! When I ran
into
> trouble breastfeeding, no one told me where I could get help. Instead,
they
> passed me the formula samples and told me my son would turn out "just
fine."
> They did not tell me there were any dangers associated with infant
formula.
> All the glossy parenting magazines, too, affirmed my choice to bottle-feed
> and assured me that my son would be fine and that I shouldn't feel guilty
> (as though the issue was my guilt and not my son's health). Friends and
> relatives, too, rallied around me to support my decision. No one mentioned
a
> *single* heightened health risk associated with infant formula.
>
> Years later, when I did my own homework, I learned how significant the
risks
> were. "Breast is best" is not only far from bullying -- it is a vast
> understatement. I wondered why my doctors hadn't told me, why the truth
> wasn't making headlines everywhere. But I know the answer, and I bet you
do
> too. We wouldn't want to "make" anyone feel guilty -- and heaven forbid
that
> we be honest enough to feel any regret about our own infant feeding
> decisions.
>
> Was bullying what really killed Tyler Waldrond? Houppert claims that
> "Tabitha Walrond -- like all new moms today -- was under considerable
> pressure to breast-feed" and that "she felt her self-esteem and competency
> as a mother hinged on her ability to breast-feed successfully." I have
heard
> nothing to support this assertion about Waldrond's feelings. Is Houppert
> speculating, or did facts along these lines come out in the trial?
>
> Houppert and Mothers Who Think are blaming the messengers because you do
not
> like the message that infant formula is dangerous. You launch one missive
> after another to make breastfeeding sound inconvenient, gross, or deadly.
>
> I find it ironic that "Mothers Who Think" assumes that its readers are so
> stupid that they need to be spoonfed just one side of an issue, and so
> fragile that you must go to pains to ensure that they feel no guilt. I
> certainly wish someone had "bullied" me with information I could have used
> to make an informed decision. Do we call it "bullying" when mothers are
> informed about the dangers of infants riding in the car on laps, or
mothers
> smoking or drinking during pregnancy? Do we strive to hide the information
> and blame the messenger so that no one feels guilty?
>
> *Thinking* mothers have always made the best decisions they could with the
> information they had. I challenge you -- now that you've presented six
> articles on the perceived drawbacks of breastfeeding -- to present a
single
> piece about all the infants (which, researchers estimate, accounts for
> 16,000 of the 4,000,000 babies born in the U.S. each year) who are, as you
> might say, formula-fed to death. Thinking mothers will appreciate your
help
> in making informed decisions.
>
> Sincerely,
> Janice Berry
> Westerville, OH
> [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:55:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: phyll buchanan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hypoglycaemia, womens experiences
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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thank you mandy for giving the midirs references on hypoglycaemia, these
are useful to read alongside the WHO review of hypoglycaemia.
If you would like to read women's experiences of the devastating effects=
that hypoglycaemia testing can have on healthy term babies read
Hypoglycemia: a cause for concern, New Generation Digest September 1996,
p2-9. =
This project started when, alarmed by the number of women suddenly phonin=
g
me with horrific
stories, I wrote in local newsletters asking for these experiences to be
put in writing. This was then written up by the NCT (I was part of the
research and information group then) and led to
Hypoglycaemia of the Newborn: Guidelines for the appropriate blood glucos=
e
screening and treatment of breastfed and bottle fed babies in the United
Kingdom. We had a joint meeting =
with many organisations whose members care for newborn babies and was
hosted and supported
by the Dept of Health. The success of these guidelines were largely due t=
o
Tony Williams for
applying his findings from the WHO review.
=
We were encouraged by messages from midwives saying that changing practic=
e
in this area was easier for us as lay people to do. Some of the midwives
knew the frequent blood sugar testing with accompaning formula feeds was
wrong but to protest might risk their jobs.
It seems to have helped, at least locally, very few women have similar
experiences now.
Phyll Buchanan
breastfeeding supporter
the breastfeeding network, nr Reading UK
From: Mandy O'Reilly RN Rm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hypoglycemia and breastfeeding
In response to the request for references regarding hypoglycemia and
breastfeeding: Midrs Midwifery digest June, 1996 Vol 6, no 2 page 220 to
222
and also in Midrs December 1996 6:2 page 382 -386. These articles are a
good
starting point and have additional references.
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:26:32 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: The Daly Family <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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You may have heard that recently a "nurse-in" was staged in Singapore, which
gained some media attention. As a result, some interested groups and
individuals would like to try and get some legislation passed to ensure a
woman's right to breastfeed her baby in public. We have some information
about the legislation passed in some American states, but would also like to
know about any legislation passed in European countries. Thanks in advance,
Kaye Daly,
LLL (Singapore)
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:54:54 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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<<
Just to clarify, when I sold this pump ( PNS) originally, I told this ( about
the single consumer use only) to the Mom. I tell all moms purchasing a pump
this. I guess they don't consider friends to be sources of contamination.
>>
When I state concerns about pump sharing and the mom is defensive with "well,
it's a really good friend." I usual say "well, as long as you know who your
friend's husband sleeps with." Can they be 100% sure that it is not
contaminated with a virus or germs?
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:58:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Support in Navarre Florida
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Dear Lactnetters,
Please email if you know of a BF support group in or near Navarre Florida for
a mother who is BF her baby with a heart defect.
Thanks Susan D. Niedzielski, CDN,IBCLC
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:22:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New books
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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A friend of mine sent me the following informations about books that just
came in at her library. The first sounds remarkably similar to our friend
who wrote the Salon article:
At the Breast : Ideologies of Breastfeeding and Motherhood in the
Contemporary United States
by Linda M. Blum
Amazon.com Synopsis
Presents a fascinating look at how women in different economic and ethnic
groups respond to the 1990s version of idealized motherhood, particularly
breastfeeding. 12 illustrations.
My friend wrote:
> Here, I'll just type up what the inside cover says:
>
> "Discouraged by the medical community for most of the century,
> breastfeeding regained esteem in the 1980s with the widespread advice
> that "breast is best." In fact, as Linda Blum demonstrated, popular media
> and experts so strongly emphasize the health benefits of breast milk for
> infants that breastfeeding is now considered the "bond" that cements the
> mother/child relationship. For contemporary working mothers, then, "good
> mothering" has come to require the awkward intervention of breast pumping
> (and a lot of it).
> As she explores the history and reasons for this shift, Blum reveals that
> a discussion about the seemingly private and individual practice of
> breastfeeding is really a larger conversation about sexuality, class,
> race, and the control and construction of maternal bodies. Interviewing
> three distinct groups of women, she discovers that the desirsbility and
> possibility of breastfeeding varies greatly. The white middle-class
> married mothers of La Leche League that Blum talks to find breastfeeding
> to be a deeply gratifying experience of embodiment despite our society's
> rigid disciplining of female bodies and their appetites. But the white
> working-class mothers she interviewed often find breastfeeding an
> anxiety-provoking reminder of uncertain respectability and dinimished
> expectations. And her interviews of Black working-class mothers she finds
> that breastfeeding is frequently considered and undesirable practice that
> carries reminders of the painful history of relations between Black and
> whites in the U.S.
> For women seeking greater understanding of their experiences, for readers
> interested in the history of th ebody, and for anyone interested in how
> society constructs and constrains women's choices, At the Breast offers
> and innovative view of our society for a unique angle."
> Linda M. Blum is author of Between Feminism and Labor : The Significance
> of the Comparable Woth Movement. She teaches sociology and women's
> studoes at the University of New Hampshire.
She added:
We also received a copy of "Failure to Thrive sand Pediatric undernutrition"
by Daniel Kessler and Peter Dawson forward by T. Berry Brazelton. Has the
age-old advice not to _let_ your clients nurse their kids at night.
Minimal discussion of breastfeeding.
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:18:33 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fwd: "Nursed to death" letter - long
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed;
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Salon Magazine:
>
>I read your article "Nursed to death" on your website today. This case
>seems very complex but apparently the jury found the mother negligent and
>largely responsible for the baby's death.
>However, I think you are stretching things by blaming breastfeeding with a
>"shoot the messenger" kind of reaction. Surely you realize that
>bottlefeeding babies die too, for various reasons. Mothers mix their
>formula improperly, or it is manufactured improperly, or the babies are not
>fed often enough. The instructions for bottle feeding properly are lengthy
>too. The number of feedings and the dirty diapers need to be monitored
>just as with breastfeeding.
>
>Your article told about what we in the health care field call "red flags."
>Lots of these red flags should have been waving at the health care
>providers: breast reduction surgery, 12 percent weight loss, disruption of
>breastfeeding x 10 days in the critical early weeks of building a milk
>supply, and with no provision for supporting that milk supply (e.g. with
>pumping) during the period of no breastfeeding. When the baby went back on
>the breast, I imagine the milk supply was very low at that point.
>>snip
In any case, the mother should have been in contact with a lactation
consultant (LC). An LC should always be board certified (IBCLC). Our no. 1
rule is "feed the baby" and we are quick to recommend supplementation when
that is warranted, as was in this case. An LC would have looked for the
"red flags" and a whole set of indicators, which are obvious during the
first few days, and would quickly intervene to feed the baby, while at the
same time working on improving the breastfeeding to its optimal level, even
if supplementation were needed long-term.
>snip
>Unfortunately, not all doctors and nurses know how to evaluate and manage
>breastfeeding. snip I still get calls from worried moms whose babies are
>not feeding, stooling, or gaining well after the 2 week doctor visit.
>They tell me that the doctor or nurse is not concerned and has advised them
>to continue to do whatever they are already doing, to give it a little more
>time. Sometimes this is appropriate when the baby is feeding well and is
>just a little under desired weight. But more often this is dangerous advice
>when no one has been consulted to see if baby is indeed feeding well.
>
>I totally disagree with your opinion that "Tabitha Walrond -- like all new
>moms today -- was under considerable pressure to breast-feed..." On the
>contrary, I see formula pushed like crazy on all moms by doctors, nurses,
>and formula reps and I see breastfeeding mismanaged and sabotaged every
>day. Health care providers are supposed to be reporting new findings and
>making recommendations based on them. To do anything else would be
>unethical. Why would you dilute the importance of new breastfeeding
>recommendations by saying "the breast-is-best philosophy [is] peddled by
>many hospitals as if bottle-feeding were tantamount to child abuse." You
>wouldn't want health care providers to stop giving advice about the dangers
>of smoking and drinking during pregnancy, or the use of car seats, or
>putting babies on their backs to sleep.
>
>Thanks for reporting on all facets of this very sad story. Please be fair
>and don't imply that bottle feeding is the cure all. And please don't
>blame the messenger.
>
>Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC - probably won't be published but this is
>just too important and I couldn't make this any shorter, even had to snip
>some for lactnet.
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:23:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Support in Navarre Florida
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Hi!
I could not find a LLLeader in Navarre, so I sent you the next best thing.
The number to the ACL for Florida. She has list and will probably be able to
help you find someone in that area. Her name is Joan and her number is
954-584-4164.
good luck
warmLLLy
Socorro
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:34:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: archive instructions
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Archives Instructions:
This is the HOW TO of the LACTNET ARCHIVES SEARCH SYSTEM.
The simplest way to search Lactnet archives is on the web interface at
lsoft. The Lactnet archives url at
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
You may also search Lactnet archives via email, but this is harder. To do so:
* SEARCHING BY WORD *
Let's say you want postings about epilepsy or epileptics since Oct 1997
Just send an email message to [log in to unmask] that says
SEARCH EPILEP in Lactnet
LISTSERV will send you back a listing of all of the messages that have
EPILEP anywhere in them, so this would match "epilepsy," "epileptic,"
etc. -- just what you want.
OK, now you want postings about epileptic mothers who are taking
Tegretol (whose generic name is carbamazepine). What you need is
messages containing each of those words. First, here's how ** NOT** to look:
SEARCH EPILEP IN LACTNET
SEARCH CARBAMAZEPINE IN LACTNET
SEARCH TEGRETOL IN LACTNET
... WRONG! That would make LISTSERV go through the database three times
instead of one, and make YOU mentally combine its output. Instead, tell
LISTSERV what you really want, by using "AND" and "OR", like this:
SEARCH EPILEP AND (CARBAMAZEPINE OR TEGRETOL) IN LACTNET
Notice the parentheses -- this means "find postings that have epilepsy
in them, and also have either carbamazepine or Tegretol."
One more example: now you want postings about Prozac that do NOT mention
depression (or DEPRESSed people). Prozac's generic name is fluoxetine,
so this would work for you:
SEARCH (PROZAC OR FLUOXETINE) AND NOT DEPRESS IN LACTNET
.
* SEARCHING BY AUTHOR *
You can specify that you want to match certain bits of text in the
author (sender) field. Say you want every LACTNET post from Katherine
Dettwyler since Jan. 1 1997, her address being [log in to unmask] or
other... This search statement (to [log in to unmask] would
find them: (please note that sometimes, people's names are not in their
e-mail address):
SEARCH * in LACTNET where sender contains Dettwyler
(The * means "match anything here.")
You can even say you want postings about cats that *aren't* from her:
SEARCH CAT IN LACTNET WHERE SENDER DOES NOT CONTAIN DETTWYLER
As you saw in the very first example, you can use SINCE to give a
starting date for the search. When you search in the LACTNET files, you get
anything that is posted since Jan. 1, 1997. You can also use
UNTIL to give an ending date for it. Here's an example:
SEARCH LIBRARY IN LACTNET SINCE Jan 1997 UNTIL Feb 1997
This would cause LISTSERV to search the archives from Jan 1, 1997 through Feb
28, 1997 -- it uses a "wide" definition of dates.
You can specify dates many different ways. Here are some useful ones:
Jan 1997 -- January 1997
Mar -- the most recent March
1997 -- 1997 (of course)
TODAY -- today
TODAY-1 -- yesterday
TODAY-7 -- last week
97/2/12 -- February 12, 1997
Notice that a date like "2/12/97" will not be understood. The reason is
that Europeans have a different date format from Americans, and
LISTSERV's philosophy is not to give either one preference.
You could send this search in once a week to find news about rabbits:
SEARCH RABBIT OR HARE OR BUNNY IN LACTNET SINCE TODAY-7
.
* GENERAL HINTS *
1. Coming up with a good search is as much an art as a science. In
general, if you don't find what you want, be LESS specific (use fewer
words, and give less of them as shown above); if you get too much, be
MORE specific. Remember that people make spelling mistakes and may not
use the same words you do.
2. Unless you must search the entire archives, use SINCE and UNTIL to
limit your search. It makes less work for both you and the computer.
3. For more information on searching, write to
[log in to unmask] with
the command
INFO DATABASE
or
GET LACTNET WELCOME
4. When you use SEARCH, LISTSERV will send you back a "menu" of posts,
each having a number. You can then order the posts you want with the
command
GETPOST LACTNET #### #### #### ####
(where you use the numbers themselves, not "####"). Remember that each
LISTSERV command sits on one line, so if you need more than one line
you'll need to repeat the GETPOST command, i.e.
GETPOST 47 127 849 1552
GETPOST 3072 4411 8193
Please NOTE: Searching LACTNET takes time, up to a minute or two, and
you won't get immediate responses when using the Web page. You should
*wait* though, as reconnecting and trying it again causes it to be even
slower (i.e. it will finish off the search for the session you
disconnected from before it even starts on the next one you've
reconnected for -- you will end up waiting LONGER). Web searches run
faster at night because the machine has a lower load then. E-mail
searches can be sent anytime; the machine will do them when it can.
If you have questions, please let us know.
Kathleen Bruce and Kathleen Auerbach, co owners, LACTNET list
[log in to unmask] and/or [log in to unmask]
Remember. All commands for search go to [log in to unmask], the
*computer* address.
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:03:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Alicia Dermer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Fleming's research on SIDS
Comments: To: phyll buchanan <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Phyll: You raise some interesting points about Fleming's article. One
other interesting point about his research which didn't make the
abstracts: At a lecture that Dr. Fleming gave regarding this study, he
said that although there was no overall reduced incidence of SIDS for the
breastfed babies, there *was* a dose-response curve within the breastfed
group, i.e. the more exclusively they were breastfed, the lower the risk.
Interesting stuff. Regards, Alicia Dermer, MD, IBCLC.
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:24:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 22 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-265)
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
message of Sat, 22 May 1999 18:17:28 -0400
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
Dear Kathy,
While the AAP is not the Fed Gov, The Fed Gov has adopted this as policy
and within the next year(s) we will be seeing Pumping rooms and Nursng
breaks on our Armed Forces Installations as well as other Governmental
Workplaces...Considering how poorly bf went for my mom thanks to USAF
physicians, I consider this a GREAT VICTORY! (not shouting, Rejoicing!)
Laura Wright
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:36:18 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cincinatti Enquirer
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
message of Sat, 22 May 1999 18:17:28 -0400
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Wow! What a powerful article! Imagine our penal system working to keep
mothers bonded with their babies!
Afterall, these women will be returning to these children
eventually..Shouldn't the children know who their mother is and that she
cared enough to provide for their best health even while incarcerated?
Laura
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:49:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: jackie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Need help with mom with milk bleb please!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi all,
I have searched the archives for milk bleb and nipple bleb and have found
some posts but none that state the most effective treatment. Please help
with me with this woman who has been suffering with it for 2 1/2 weeks.
This patient delivered 5 weeks ago and did not have any trouble with nursing
except for mild nipple tenderness initially. About 2 1/2 weeks ago she
began having general left breast aching and nipple soreness.
She was given an antibiotic for possible mastitis and baby was put on
nystatin for possible yeast. She did not finish the course of antibiotics
because of a reaction and another doc took baby off the nystatin as there
was no sign of yeast.
Over the next couple of weeks she noticed a small white lump on nipple which
has steadily gotten bigger. This bleb is present after the baby feeds and
then recedes to a flattish, yellow, crusted spot on nipple which can not be
removed.
The breast pain was worse this past week and she again saw 3 different md's
one of which called me and described what it looked like. I told him what
my sources said about opening bleb with a sterile needle which he tried. At
the time that he tried that the bleb was not fully engorged. He did not get
any milk release afterward. This was very painful afterward for mom and she
was on Darvocet.
I was finally able to see this mom personally tonight. She states that her
breast is slightly better today but still very painful. She has a constant
aching in breast especially left lateral. I saw no redness, lumps, firm
areas. I observed a feed and after nursing 10 min a very large white bleb
was present on tip of nipple. This receded to the flat, yellow, crusty area
after a short time.
I have read in the archives that it is thought that yeast could be the
cause. Do you think that it would be helpful to put her on a course of
Diflucan? She has had this so long that I would like to get the fastest
treatment possible for her.
Does anyone think that the fact that the bleb keeps getting bigger indicate
that it will spontaneously burst or should it be lanced when engorged like
this?
What is the best treatment for this? I gave her shells for comfort between
feeds. I suggested warm soaks/compresses before feeds to try to soften the
bleb.
As she is not nursing often on that side because of the pain and now is
seeing a decrease in supply I gave her a shield to see if that would make
her more comfortable. I stressed to her that it is important to have baby
feed freq or that she should pump.
I apologize for the length of this post. I am trying very hard to find help
for this mom. She so wants to continue but is becoming very discouraged.
The OB doc is talking about lancing it tomorrow 5/23 so if anyone has
thoughts about that being not the right thing to do would you email me
please.
Thanks so much for your help. I appreciate it very much.
Sincerely,
Jackie Proko RN, IBCLC
mail to: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:33:10 GMT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Magda Sachs <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BfN The Breastfeeding Network
Subject: lansinoh
>Lansinoh, is a lanolin based product but it has apparently undergone a
>specific process of purification which also decreases the allergins.
Could anyone tell me more about the 'apparantly' in this statement. Lansinoh is
just beginning to become promoted for use in the UK. The adverts are causing
some concern because they imply that Lansinoh is the cure for sore nipples, with
no mention of checking the positioning or attachment of the baby at/on the
breast.
Also, LLLGB supply their copies of The Breastfeeding Answerbook with stickers
which say:
"La Leche League Great Britain does not endorse any breastfeeding
product aid or device. Readers of this publication are reminded that any
references to Lansinoh arise solely from the endorsement of this product by LLLI
and not by LLLGB"
-- I realise this is their general policy on endorsement , but it certainly
makes the reception of lansinoh a bit more frosty here.
Can anyone tell me what studies have been done to make reference to lansinoh on
lactnet generally warm and approving, in contrast to what I have understood from
colleagues in the UK?
Magda Sachs
Breastfeeding Supporter, BfN UK
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:59:42 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: the lactnet archives
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Just to say I find the email search of the lactnet archives is excellent -
so far. It's a lot easier than doing it via the website, in my experience.
I have used it about 10 times, and it has been quick, accurate and helpful.
Sometimes, the response has come back instantaneously.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:51 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NPR 5/21 Mothers Who Think
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Well, first, don't you "think" their name implies that the rest of us, who
disagree with them, don't think? I missed the first part, but I think they
were promoting the new book "at the breast." One of their on air tales was
from the salon Sept 97 issue "creme Boob-lee". They talk about "Mothering
Magazine" as one of their competitors and make no bones about ridiculing
it.
The general tone of what I heard was sort of feminism gone screwy with BF
as a scapegoat.
To me feminism is the right to love my female self and value what I, as a
female can do, that no man can. (Is this why so many formula reps are
men?). Feminism is also the right to appreciate men for all they can do
that I can't. Feminism is the right to equal pay for equal work and equal
pay for similar work. Feminism is the right to be different, not bad, or
wrong or inferior, but different.
By putting down BF these women do not value what females only can do. They
do not value different opinions. And they use ridicule, sarcasim and
twisted 1/2 truths to prove their points. All guised under the umbrella
that they "think". And they are doing their "thinking" in a very public
way. I "think" these ladies have LOTS of unresolved issues and need to
see Dr. Jack once a week for at least an hour of therapy for a long time
until they get their heads on straight. (new career Jack!)
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:17:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Udder cream
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Bag Balm has been around for a long time and many people swear by it for
use on hands that won't heal. Personally I find the smell and feel
repulsive, but my dad loved it for his garden weary hands. I can't imagine
recommending it for nipples. Just because we use it on cow's udders doesn't
make it suitable for breasts. Another US cultural attitude (breasts are
just like udders) Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:53:21 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Roni Chastain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond case and breastfeeding advocate's hysteria
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<<<<<<
May I respectfully suggest that people consider that the jury in the Tabitha
Walrond case had access to more information than has ever been made public,
and that we have to trust they made the right decision based on the facts.
>>>>>>
This is an important point. I saw photos of this baby on the TV, they kept
warning people that they were very graphic. The photos were shocking, this
baby was a skeleton with skin. The photos shown on tv were only 2 of several
that were shown in court. From the photos, anyone could see this baby was
clearly, severely ill.
Roni Chastain, RN, LCCE, FACCE
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:49:04 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Yaron Dorf <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: giving up on bf
Comments: To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi
What to do with a 4 months old baby who keeps breast feeding every hour,
doesn't take
a pacifier. The longest periods between the feedings is 1 and a half hour.
The mother
is tired of all this and want to switch to a bottle !!!
please write to me at [log in to unmask]
REGARDS
orna
tel aviv , Israel
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:29:49 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: laurie wheeler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: thinking alike - salon letters
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It is so weird that Janice and I wrote like phrases such as "blame the
messenger" and used the same analogies of smoking/drinking during pg and use
of car seats. It took me over an hour to compose that letter, while going
back and forth to the original Salon piece and addressing each point. And it
appears we were writing at almost the same time! I hope Salon gets the
point, but surely they'll think we conspired on this together!
Laurie Wheeler, RN, MN, IBCLC
Louisiana Breastfeeding MediaWatch Campaign
_______________________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:36:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: NPR 5/21 Mothers Who Think
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Patricia Young wrote:
> Well, first, don't you "think" their name implies that the rest of us, who
> disagree with them, don't think? I missed the first part, but I think
they
> were promoting the new book "at the breast."
Wait a second ... so I'm not off-base in seeing similarities between Linda
Blum's ideas and Karen Houppert's article/Salon's bias? Why are they
promoting the book?
Janice
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:52:05 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tabitha Walrond case and breastfeeding advocate's hysteria
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. From the photos, anyone could see this baby was
>clearly, severely ill.
>
Is it possible Tabitha is mentally ill? Really,,,seriously?
Patti c.
(aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:47:47 -0400
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more boys than girls?
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Of the 12 LLL Leaders - that I can think of quickly, anyway - that
I've worked with over 14 years, we've had 26 children among us.
Twenty-one of those were boys. Only 2 of the 5 girls were
firstborns, and both were unusually high need. Right now we have 3
Leader Applicants. All three have boys.
I brought this up once before in less specific terms, and the sense I
got from lactnet was that boys *don't* have more breastfeeding
problems than girls. Anyone else want to run a tally - of clients, or
babies that drive us into breastfeeding advocacy, or whatever? I
really have a strong sense that boys must have more trouble at the
start... Or is there some other factor that seems to weight
breastfeeding advocates heavily toward boys?
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC, LLLL Ithaca, NY
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:28:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Diane Wiessinger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dioxin levels
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Thought this might have some meaning for us:
from Science News, may 15, 1999 vol 155:309, Dioxin confirmed as a
human carcinogen
based on article in Journal of the National Cancer Institute, May 5
1999
First paragraph:
Nearly everyone in the world carries traces of dioxin. Some
chemical-plant workers, however, have carried 1,000 times as much
dioxin as other people. Such high exposures to dioxin in the
workplace pose a cancer risk, a new federal analysis concludes.
Middle of text:
[new calculations indicate] "... there is a dose response - we see a
trend of more disease with more exposure."
Last paragraph:
Ordinarily, to learn more about low-dose risks, he notes, scientists
would call for further research on people with high exposure to the
chemical. Such research "is unlikely," Hoover says. Virtually all
the populations that had been heavily exposed "have been studied, and
fortunately, high-level exposures no longer occur," he adds. Indeed,
people's average blood concentrations of dioxin have fallen to a
quarter of what they were 25 years ago.
Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC Ithaca, NY
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:47:05 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Boys & Breastfeeding difficulty
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Diane asks,
<< I brought this up once before in less specific terms, and the sense I
got from lactnet was that boys *don't* have more breastfeeding
problems than girls. Anyone else want to run a tally - of clients, or
babies that drive us into breastfeeding advocacy, or whatever? I
really have a strong sense that boys must have more trouble at the
start... Or is there some other factor that seems to weight
breastfeeding advocates heavily toward boys? >>
Two things here: (1) I have three children -- Jill, Torrey Beth, and
Timothy. Timothy is the reason I'm a lactation consultant. Absolutely the
most perfect home birth....and it took him 5 days to learn how to latch
on.....he never did breastfeed very well. (2) If you look at the article by
Crowell et al in June (I think) '94 Journal of Nurse Midwifery, she has done
a study on drugs & initiation of breastfeeding (a followup to Matthews' study
in 1989) in which one of the interesting sidelights was that girls took an
average of 28 hours to establish effective feeds; boys twice as long at 56
hours.
My guesstimation is that 75% of my private practice is boys.
Others?
Jan Barger who figures that while it might take boys longer to figure out
about breasts and breastfeeding, once they do, they love it for life.
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 16:00:47 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: more boys than girls
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Dianne,
In a message dated 5/23/99 12:53:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, you wrote:
<< Of the 12 LLL Leaders - that I can think of quickly, anyway - that
I've worked with over 14 years, we've had 26 children among us.
Twenty-one of those were boys. Only 2 of the 5 girls were
firstborns, and both were unusually high need. Right now we have 3
Leader Applicants. All three have boys. >>
Of the 4 Leaders in our group, we've had 10 babies and all but one of them
are girls! A former co-Leader also had 5 girls. Our Leader-in Reserve has 7
children: 2 boys and 5 girls. Only the last 4 were breastfed and they were
all girls. Carol breastfed those last 4 babies because of the allergies the
first 3 had.
My firstborn, Mary, was very high need; all the time she wasn't nursing, she
being carried in the Snugli. She, who was born raring-to-go, just earned
straight As in her second semester at college. (Is a motherly brag allowed?)
Warmly,
Carol Kelley LLLL
Taylors SC USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:11:59 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: HCI
Subject: Berry's letter to Salon
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> Subject: Mothers Who Think Breastfeeding Is Inconvenient, Gross, and now Deadly
>
> Since I've been bugging all of you, here's what *I* sent.
> Janice
>
Janice,
You are wonderfully diplomatic. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your letter.
Nicole Bernshaw
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 16:15:16 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Breastfeeding Basics
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Dr. O'Connor--
Would you like to post the URL for the Breastfeeding Basics course on Lactnet
(lactation bulletin board)? You could get reviews from a lot of lactation
consultants as well as from the ABM members.
Lactnet's address is: [log in to unmask]
Linda L. Shaw MD FAAP
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:46:47 -0500
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hypoglycemia
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These are my notes from the State LLLI Conference 1998 in Illinois
Hypoglycemia
Based on information presented by Betty Crase, AAP
Hypoglycemia is a condition that results when there is too rapid a fall in
glucose levels when the usage of glucose in the baby's system exceeds the
production. While the condition does require attention, the routine
administration of a prophylactic glucose bottle is not recommended.
Definition
Many inconsistencies exist with the definition, detection, prevention and
treatment of hypoglycemia resulting in no standard of care. The definition
of hypoglycemia depends on the blood levels used to define the condition.
Studies that have examined this condition are using varying levels, ranging
from less than 30mg/dl to less than 47 mg/dl. There is no gold standard or
even standard universal range reflected in the literature. The detection
methods depend on whether whole blood or the serum or plasma is tested.
While the blood tests are the most reliable in terms of consistency of
results, without a standard definition, the information becomes less useful.
Furthermore, a blood test requires a full blood draw and is much more
costly. This has made the rapid detection tests, Dextrostix and Chemstrips,
more popular. However, the Dextrostix and Chemstrips are unreliable in the
quality and consistency of their results and the American Academy of
Pediatrics discouraged their use in 1993. Lastly, the use of arbitrary
weight limits as a risk factor varies from hospital to hospital and there is
no standard of care or recommendation in the literature.
Treatment and Prevention
The treatment for and prevention of hypoglycemia in the newborn, even in
preterm infants, is "to feed undiluted human milk because the fat in human
milk causes a rapid rise in blood sugar. Symptomatic neo-natal hypoglycemia
is due to delayed or inadequate feeding of human milk." (Smallpeice, 1964).
Colostrum contains 6.4% Lactose, 3% Lipids, 2-3% Protein, totaling 18
calories /ounce. The standard glucose bottle contains less glucose, 5%, and
no fat or other nutrients which, when taken orally, causes a rapid rise and
then fall in blood sugar levels potentially creating iatrogenic hypoglycemic
shock. Breastfeeding on demand provides the optimum nutritional composition
to prevent and correct hypoglycemia. Nursing on demand provides small,
frequent high-protein/fat/calorie meals for the infant, which are the same
recommendations as for the adult.
The incidence of hypoglycemia is increased by two factors that we know of at
this time. One is the use of maternal glucose IV which transports rapidly
across the placenta and therefore the baby does not need to produce his/her
own. The incidence of Demerol epidurals also increased the frequency of
hypoglycemia to 37% in 30 women who delivered vaginally and 43% who delivery
by cesarean section from the more classic incidence of 4% (Cole 1994).
Recommendations of the World Health Organization 1997 are:
- No need to routinely check healthy, term infant if breastfed on demand and
nursed within 1 hour of birth
- No routine oral glucose bottles
- If neonate is at risk and is asymptomatic, then give human milk at breast,
or if unable to suckle, give expressed milk. If still hypoglycemic three
hours later, give IV 10% glucose and continue breastfeeding
- If neonate is sick or symptomatic give IV 10% glucose and continue
breastfeeding
Please note that there are no recommendations for oral glucose bottles at
all. The administration of IV glucose can be avoided by encouraging
immediate breastfeeding. IV administration has the undesirable effect of
being more invasive and can create "Vulnerable Baby Syndrome" in the mother
who might feel that her milk is inadequate or that she has a sickly baby.
Breastfeeding can both prevent as well as treat hypoglycemia because it is
the best nutritionally, making it the substance of choice.
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Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:48:13 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: prolactin levels, alchohol in BM
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Frequent breastfeeding during the first 6 weeks postpartum seems to
increase the number of prolactin receptors on milk gland cells, so that
when the baseline prolactin level drops, there is still enough to get
into the cells and "turn up" the machinery when prolactin spurts occur
from suckling.
In reduction mammoplasty, glandular tissue is removed along with the
adipose (fat) tissue. Possibly the glandular tissue that remains is
reduced in quantity and needs hyperstimulation to meet the demand for
milk. This could explain why some moms who have had reductions do not
make enough milk without prolactin elevating drugs like domperidone.
As for ethanol in milk: the reason the milk in the breast becomes safe
is that the ethanol level in milk and blood are in equilibrium because
ethanol passes freely to and from the milk. As the body metabolizes the
ethanol in the blood, the blood level decreases, causing a concentration
gradient favoring passage of the alcohol from the milk to the
bloodstream. This dynamic could not occur if the milk were expressed.
Therefore, letting milk sit will not cause the ethanol to degrade or
disappear.
--
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC New York City mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:00:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crib sidecars
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One ties the crib legs to the bedframe, then rolls a large blanket into
a sausage shape and stuffs it into any gap between the crib and bed to
remove the danger of entrapment. THere is a commercial product called
the Bedside Co-sleeper which is designed for this purpose. It is
advertised in parenting magazines.
--
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC New York City mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:52:41 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Chris and Madeline Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: udder cream
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Just an interesting side line to this, I have a nine year old son who gets
quite bad psoriasis and the Psoriasis association where I live actually
recommends this "bag balm" (as it is sometimes called) for psoriasis.
Fortunately my sons seems to be resolving with just steroid creams - I
certainly didn't like the thought of using a veterinary product on a child.
Regards,
Madeline Hall
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Boys & Breastfeeding difficulty
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I agree with Jan, more frequently the ones who need help are boys.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:17:03 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: udder cream
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----------
> From: Chris and Madeline Hall <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: udder cream
> Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 11:52 PM
>
> Just an interesting side line to this, I have a nine year old son who
gets
> quite bad psoriasis and the Psoriasis association where I live actually
> recommends this "bag balm" (as it is sometimes called) for psoriasis.
> Fortunately my sons seems to be resolving with just steroid creams - I
> certainly didn't like the thought of using a veterinary product on a
child.
> Regards,
> Madeline Hall
> [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 17:23:29 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: hypermastia
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A search of the archives yielded three posts, not any answers. I have a
question from a mum, asking is breastfeeding possible with hypermastia. How
does one distinguish hypermastia from large breasts?
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:41:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pampers Parenting
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What follows is my letter to the Pampers Parenting Institute to addre=
ss some
of the information in some of their materials sent free to childbirth
educators, complete with tear-off pages depicting the stages of labor=
, with
this parenting information on the back of each page. ( Please note t=
hat
every point is footnoted in the copy sent to PPI; thanks to those of =
you who
assisted my search for references.)
Deane,
Thank you for talking with me about my concerns. Parenting and child =
care
questions used to be a matter of theory or opinion. Now many of these
questions can be answered based on fact, that is to say, empirical da=
ta from
the new brain research. I have listed my concerns below and have inc=
luded
the references for my information.
First is the issue of delaying offering a feed as page 18 of your boo=
klet
sugests. The American Academy of Pediatrics issued their statement on=
The
Use of Human Milk in December of 1997. (Attached) It states that "c=
rying
is a late indicator of hunger. Newborns should be nursed whenever the=
y show
signs of hunger, such as increased alertness or activity, mouthing, o=
r
rooting." Additionally for nursing babies, offering the breast as soo=
n as
possible is important because if a baby becomes too upset by the dela=
y, s/he
can become so disorganized that s/he will be unable to nurse effectiv=
ely.
Secondly, offering a pacifier to a nursing baby is not recommended by=
the
AAP; "pacifiers should be avoided whenever possible." It is further
inappropriate to make a distinction between nutritive and non-nutriti=
ve
sucking for a breastfed baby. Flutter nursing, commonly referred to =
as
non-nutritive because it does not remove milk from the lactiferous si=
nuses,
is none-the-less essential as it stimulates and maintains prolactin l=
evels
in the mother which are responsible for milk production.
The third issue is mostly related to the concept of "crying it out" .=
I am
aware that Dr. Brazelton has always proposed this approach. The firs=
t issue
is to examine whether or not crying should be accepted as the biologi=
c norm
for human babies, as is implied on page 11.
1. Prolonged crying is neither a universal characteristic of infants,=
nor
does it serve a survival function. In fact, it interferes with survi=
val in
virtually every way, with the exception of signaling distress.
2. Crying effects the infant across all systems. The experience of c=
rying
interferes with the cardiopulmonary system - excessive crying interfe=
res
with closing the valve that reroutes the blood to the lungs rather th=
an the
umbilicus, visceral-the gut tenses, autonomic-heart pounds, breathin=
g
becomes labored, motoric-muscles tense limbs loose coordination, and
metabolic- Cortisol, the stress hormone is released. Stress has been=
shown
to destroy the connections in the prefrontal cortex, which regulate t=
he
infant's ability to self calm.
3. Prolonged, deep crying effects the arterial oxygen balance because=
there
is a momentary but repetitive cessation of breath intake. The body r=
eacts
defensively, producing white blood cells and Cortisol. Even after th=
e
crying stops, stress hormones remain in the blood stream for 20 minut=
es;
even after crying ceases, the infant remains stressed.
4. Prolonged crying effects weight gain as it burns calories and drai=
ns
energy: babies are often too weak or too sleepy to nurse.
5. Crying disrupts sleep patterns bypassing light sleep and going dir=
ectly
to deep sleep. This is a response to stress due to physiological rea=
ction
to Cortisol, the stress hormone.
6. Prolonged crying effects formation of relationships; prolonged sta=
tes of
negative affect are known to be toxic for the young child personally =
and
interpersonally.
7. Exhausted babies spend less time interacting and learning
8. Babies who cry are at greater risk of setting up negative or minim=
al
feedback cycles.
9. Parents of babies who cry don't feel as effective, have their conf=
idence
undermined and often blame themselves that can impact the quality of =
the
relationship.
10. Parents of babies who cry often experience resentment, hostility =
or
anxiety.
11. The effect of prolonged unattended crying on the infant-parent
relationship "can cause parents to withdraw nurturence, which threate=
ned the
infant's well-being =85 letting the baby cry it out is indefensible."=
(The
Vital Touch)
Crying is, however, part of signal system.
1. An infant's cry is loud, 20 decibels louder that speech, insuring =
a
response and eliciting a maternal physiological reaction. Oxytocin is
released, heart rate and blood pressure rise, breast temperature and =
blood
flow to the breast increase, milk is released.
2. The response to crying impacts frequency. It takes 90 seconds for =
an
infant's cry to intensify and become difficult to sooth.
3. Babies who are consistently responded to within 90 seconds cry 70%=
less.
4. The walking rhythm of adult while comforting a baby (60-70 cycles =
a
minute) matches the walking rhythm during the last trimester, and the=
heart
rate of a pregnant woman. Rocked or walked at this rate, babies stop=
crying
on average by 15 seconds.
The best way to help parents to feel effective is not to encourage an
illusion of control, but to help them develop effective techniques th=
at
encourage a well-attuned, interactive and mutually responsive relatio=
nship
with their child. To assume that a child is over-stimulated becau=
se
nothing else has worked is unfounded. Moreover, laying a child in be=
d to
cry unattended because nothing else has worked should not be promoted=
. As
shown, this might well be a further assault on the child's senses and
organization. While over-stimulation my play a role in an infant's
distress, there may be other factors as well. The formation of trust=
based
on signal responses is vital at this age, and unattended crying shoul=
d not
be promoted as vigorously your material does.
I would also suggest that the ideas promoted on page 17 that a parent=
's goal
is to help their baby self-console so that they can be easier to pare=
nt is
misguided and dangerous. A parent's goal is to help meet their child=
's
needs in developmentally appropriate ways so that the child can grow =
and
thrive. I find it very objectionable to imply that the goal of paren=
ting is
about making the child more convenient for the parents. Dr. David Elk=
ind of
Tufts University and author of The Hurried Child, and Mis-Education =
states
in the 1997 summer issue of Tuftonia Today,
=93One of the most important parenting skills is to, on occasion, pu=
t the
child=92s needs ahead of our own or at least treat them equally. I t=
hink that
kids today feel that isn=92t happening because everybody is doing the=
ir own
thing. It=92s not the quality or quantity of time parents spend with=
their
children that is important. What children need to know and what trul=
y
builds attachment, is the sense that their parents care enough about =
them to
make sacrifices on their behalf. This gives kids a solid sense that =
they
are important in our lives. Up until the mid-century the majority of
teenagers died from diseases, like TB and polio. But today a compara=
ble or
even greater number of adolescents die from stress-related causes, su=
ch as
substance-related automobile accidents, suicide, self-starvation, dru=
g
overdoses. I attribute this in part to the fact that a great many yo=
ung
people today feel that their needs are not being met.=94
While Dr. Elkind is clearly referring to adolescents, the relationshi=
ps that
are begun at birth set the tone for the interpersonal dynamics, attac=
hments
and relationships well into adulthood. It is crucial to encourage p=
arents
to be as responsive as possible to infants needs and signals. Dr. Br=
azelton
has pioneered the concept that babies can show parents the way. Ques=
tioning
the legitimacy of baby's needs undermines this very concept. I woul=
d ask
that you re-evaluate your materials to reflect the errors I have sugg=
ested
here.
Sincerely,
Joanne McCrory
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:23:27 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: NPR 5/21 Mothers Who Think
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Pat in SNJ wrote:
>Well, first, don't you "think" their name implies that the rest of us, who
>disagree with them, don't think?
and that the average mother doesn't, considering one who thinks is
evidently something special, interesting, and different, hence the title of
their magazine.
They're really not anymore hot on mothering actually than they are nursing.
A few weeks back their feature article was written by a childfree by
choice woman who played mom for a day with her friend's kid and how glad
she is of her choice. What kind of article is that for a magazine for
mothers? Poke sround a bit. It used to be good but now it is more than
mainstream IMHO.
-wendey. studying LC in partly cloudy montreal
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:47:52 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Fookkong Fok <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The white bleb and frequent breastfeeding
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Hello lactnetters,
With regards to the white bleb- well, I've seen this condition in a number
of mothers. I try as far as possible not to aspirate the bleb but encourage
the mother to try to let the baby suckle more often and hope that as a
result of the sucking, the bleb will burst on its own. If not, a surgical
and antispectic aspiration of the bleb may be warranted to clear the
curd-like substance inside. Then,the mum will need to air-dry the nipple to
keep it from getting infected. I think it will be useful to do the consult
with a medical practitioner to check if it's not a cellulitis or any other
form of infection. If it's cellulitis, then an antibiotic like cloxacillin
may help. If it's anything serious, I'll consult a breast surgeon and see
if more can be done for the mother.
Frequent breastfeeding - I can empathise with the mother who has to feed so
frequently- the interval mentioned was one and a half hours. I remember
breastfeeding my daughter almost every hour and it was very tiring and
frustrating at first. I just had to literally live hour by hour.
Sometimes, my family members had to feed me as I breastfed her. I had to
rush to the toilet whenever a need arose at that time. However, things got
better month by month, she spread out a feed as she grew older. You will
really need household help during those "dark" days! I just accepted that
my house would have to wait until my daughter grew older and then caught up
with my housework later. In the meantime, as long as there was food-I
relied on others to cook for me, and clothes to wear- I didn't care as long
as I could breastfeed my daughter. Now, I look at her proudly and say we
did it
and survived it. Reassure the mother who's going through this frequent
feeding- that it will pass soon enough. All the best. Doris Fok, IBCLC in
private practice in Singapore
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:33:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Ahrendsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CNN site RE SIDS
Comments: cc: Katherine Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
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I just visited the site below on CNN website about SIDS
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9905/21/infants.sids/
Nowhere does it mention anything about BF.
Fire up your word processors!!! the address for comments is
[log in to unmask]
Jon
Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP
& Becky
parents of Andrea, Elizabeth and Karl
Clarion, Iowa
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:44:08 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Any more ridiculous stories?
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I'm looking for a few more stories of ridiculous, stupid and/or dumb things
said to mothers about breastfeeding, most especially things that would make
a good cartoon drawing. I think someone on lactnet related a story of a mom
told that she shouldn't nurse her baby (I forget the circumstances) because
he might blow air into her breasts? I'd like that original story, and any
other goodies that can be shared.
TIA,
Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:10:49 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Draper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: London/Copenhagen - Breastfeeding Practices
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Dear Listners,
A friend of mine is travelling overseas next month, in June, and will be
spending a few days in London and two days in Copenhagen. She is keen to
observe breastfeeding practices in these cities. Does anyone have any
contacts which I can pass on to her? TIA [log in to unmask]
Roslyn Draper RM IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 07:20:23 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pampers Parenting
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Dear Jaonne, WONDERFUL! That's a keeper! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:22:23 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Wonderful news to share about a NJ LLL Leader
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Hi All!
At the suggestion of my good friend Pat Young, I'd like to share some
exciting news with you all about a fellow LLL Leader.
The Leader is my former co-Leader and good friend - Rhonda Molesphini, who is
an active Leader with the Montgomery Twp. Group, here in New Jersey.
Wednesday, May 12, Rhonda found out that she was selected as one of Oprah
Winfrey's Mothers of the Month!!!!! Her co-Leader Heather Kay and I were
overjoyed to be there when Rhonda received the call from Oprah herself!
Back in October, Rhonda's sister heard about Oprah's "search" for mothers
deserving recognition and wrote a beautiful tribute about Rhonda and sent it
in. Susan bound that tribute and presented it to Rhonda for Christmas.
The week before the call from Oprah, Rhonda's husband Tony, got a call from
Oprah's staff, telling him that Rhonda had been chosen. They wanted to bring
a film crew to film Rhonda getting the call from Oprah. The stumbling block
-- it had to be
a surprise and Rhonda could know nothing about it!
Resourceful Tony, called Heather and suggested she weave a story about the
local cable station wanting to do a piece about LLL and have a "mock
meeting". So Heather became the liaison between the family and the show.
Heather did a great job in putting this all together without Rhonda even
having a clue!
Heather, Doreen (a friend of Rhonda's and former mom in our group), several
moms from the Montgomery Group and I were there for this "mock" meeting. Tony
was in the background -- supposedly ready to get 6 year old Alexander ready
for Kindergarten.
Everything was set and we all took our places. Rhonda thought the producer
was the reporter from the local cable station. The producer asked questions
about LLL (and did a great job!) and Rhonda answered with ease! The crew
deserves an award for all the stalling they did -- but made it believable --
camera angles were off, glare off the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding - things
like that.
At 11:45 the telephone rang. Rhonda told Tony to answer and said that she was
not available at that time. Tony deserves an Oscar for his performance
here!!! He answered the phone and then asked the caller's name. (At that,
Rhonda is signaling that she cannot take the call). Tony covers the
mouthpiece - looks Rhonda square in the eye and says :"Are you on hotline
this month?" (here in NJ, LLL-NJ runs a hotline for mothers to call and each
Leader takes a month "on duty") and then proceeds to tell her that it was a
LLL call and she had to take it.
Rhonda took the call -- but it was not a mother in need -- it was Oprah
Winfrey and her studio audience! After teasing Rhonda for a few minutes,
Oprah finally identified herself and told Rhonda the news! All of us in
attendance cheered, applauded and hugged Rhonda. There were even tears of
joy!
The Oprah Show flew Rhonda and her sister out to Chicago the following
Tuesday for taping of the show on Wednesday. The show will air this
Wednesday - May 26. Check for local listings for time and channel.
If you would like to send Rhonda words of congratulations or anything -- her
email address is: <[log in to unmask]>. I have set up a web page in
honor of this great recognition at
<http://members.aol.com/mamadanz/Rhonda.html>. Please take a few minutes to
visit the page and sign the guestbook with a message. This is another
surprise for Rhonda - I'd like to share it with her after the show airs --
so we have just a little time to pull this together!
Sorry to be long on this -- but I thought the news was just too phenomenal
not to share!
Warmly,
Sheila Angalet
LLL-NJ
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:10:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re Boys & Breastfeeding Difficulity
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I don't find more boys with difficulties.
In personal experience I have 3 boys and two girls. All 3 boys have done
great. One of the girls was born with an incorrect suck quite a bit like
nipple confusion! She had a blister on the meaty part of her hand at the
base of her thumb. We think the little darling missed getting her thumb in
her mouth while still inside and sucked on the meaty part causing her tongue
to be very high in the back of her mouth and not stretched out at all over
the gums to cup the breast, she clicked when she nursed. She did finally
start nursing properly with lots of suck training. But she never wanted to
nurse more than every three hours. Very independent child! My other
daughter did not have any problems but did not nurse as often as the boys did.
In practice I hear many moms stating that the girls don't have as strong of a
suck like their boys did. Maybe this is a boys first and girls later type of
thing. I have also heard the reverse that the boys were like a strong vacuum
and their girls weren't nearly as strong of suck. (This is what I have found
in my own experience).
Now I am wondering if we*hear* and *remember* what we ourselves have
experienced? Something to ponder.
Belinda Bohnert
Nursing Matters, Breastpump Sales & Rental, Information, Education, & Support.
Indianapolis Indiana, US
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:11:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wonderful news to share about a NJ LLL Leader
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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How long has it been since I was so touched and proud as to sit here at the computer and weep? Thank you so much for sharing that story, with the details of each step of the honoring--the whole cast of characters.
The extent of my emotions, I think, are a testament to the grief and anguish that I feel as I read, day after day, of the continuing obstacles we face in our efforts to make it possible for mothers to love and nurture their babies in a way that teaches them how to be Human. The events of this story have released some beautiful positive energy that will surely ripple far and wide.
I am forwarding it to several others who, I know, need a "Hopeful Hug" today.
Thanks for a Monday morning gift.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:16:22 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: more boys than girls?
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In reading about the boys/girls breastfeeding difficulties, I wonder if we are taking into consideration medicated or unmedicated births. I, too, find that a greater percentage of my clients (skewed to problems to begin with) have baby boys. It runs about 68% boys. And most of the long-term cases are boys.
There is so much information these days about drugs affecting men and women differently, that I'm thinking that it may be from birth. There are so many variables surrounding the drugs administered in a hospital birth--amount, type of drug, timing, size of mother, etc--that it would be hard to get solid data, but perhaps if a boy gets the same dose as a girl, he would be affected by some of the drugs more seriously and for a longer time.
If we really knew what was in those epidural cocktails, we might be able to see which drugs have the greatest adverse effect on boys or girls. I understand that the content can vary widely.
Without the drug issue, my local midwives who do home births, say that boys have more feeding problems than girls.
But the good news is that I have more clients "hanging in there" to resolution of breastfeeding problems--and they are so proud of themselves when all is well.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:15:14 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jackie Atiya <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: need lc
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Hi all
My name is Jackie Atiya, an aspiring LC from Israel. I urgently need to =
find an LC in or the abouts of Baraga, MI.
the women is on the brink of giving up bf and is already supplementing =
with formula.=20
I have given her some internet sites to check out (LLL, Dr. Newman), =
hoping it will give her enough incentive to hold on until I get back to =
her with an LC contact.
pls e-mail me privately
TIA
Jackie Atiya
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:09:39 -0400
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From: Bobbie Middlemiss <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Job Descriptions & Qulifications
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I went to archives, found a few posts that were helpful, and several e-mail
addresses, but, if you will forgive one more request, I would appreciate
your help.
We (clinical coordinator, and 3 IBCLC RNs employed on OBS) are in the
process of writing job descriptions and qualifications for a hospital based
Breastfeeding Clinic. We will have space outside of the Obstetrical floor,
serve the community as well as our 'in hospital' clients. We are a Southern
Ontario, Canada, community hospital with approximately 500 deliveries/year.
We would appreciate it if you could help us with job descriptions, hospital
policies re qualifications necessary, hints for our start-up that might
help us prevent mistakes/glitches for a smooth entry into operation, etc.
If any of your units employ IBCLCs in a clinic who also work on the OBS
unit, we would like to share your scheduling methods.
If you have anything that might help us, I would very much appreciate it if
you could e-mail privately to:
[log in to unmask]
TIA,
Bobbie RN BScN IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:50:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Pump sharing
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In a message dated 5/22/99 10:20:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< When I state concerns about pump sharing and the mom is defensive with
"well,
it's a really good friend." I usual say "well, as long as you know who your
friend's husband sleeps with." Can they be 100% sure that it is not
contaminated with a virus or germs?
>>
Are we normally 100% sure when we have contact with our friends? Do we want
to make pumping -- I'm talking about healthy moms and healthy babies here, or
course -- more like medicine, or more like life?
What I tell moms is (disclaimer: as a lay counselor not a LC or rental
station, I have a lesser responsibility, I know), "As long as you would be
willing to drink out of her glass" or "give your child a drink out of her
glass."
In other words, risky, but in a normal context of friendship and sharing and
eating and drinking.
Are there reasons I am missing why pump sharing is riskier than this?
Because if not we need to think about what our deutero-language -- our tone,
our implications -- tell mothers about the place in their life of providing
milk for their own kids and their friends kids. The risk of contagion is
certainly real -- but usually not scarily great -- and the risk of making
pumps feel like hospital equipment is very great indeed.
Elisheva Urbas
who once at a big wedding brought my Lactina to pump in the bride's room --
and watched a string of desperate moms come in, beg to borrow it, pump,
regretfully dump their milk out of my spare bottles, give it all a rinse, and
then pass the flanges on to the next mom. Five moms who all got a good
lesson that providing milk for your absent babes is a no-brainer for me, and
will be for them next time too.
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:06:42 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Salon article on Tabitha Walrund
Kathy is right that we don't know all of the facts of the case. What
bothered me most, though about this article is the title, "Nursed to
Death." As I wrote Salon, this is not an accurate or THOUGHTFUL title for
thinking mothers, because it was the LACK of breastmilk, not nursing that
killed the baby, from what I have read. So the implication of the title is
misleading, and women who just see that and don't read the whole article or
know anything about breastfeeding could assume it was the fact that she was
nursing and not formula feeding that caused the death.
It says she breastfed him "regularly." What is regularly? Every four hours
with breasts that have been surgically damaged? Has it said anywhere else
how often she fed him? Yes, she should have known that he was starving from
his appearance and insisted on him being seen by a physician. Yet, I know
many poor women who are intimidated by the system and they do not insist on
what they feel is right. They've had so many experiences of being told
they have no power. I've also known of other babies who were getting close
to starving that did not act "sick" because they were placid babies who
didn't have enough calories to give them the energy to cry. Uneducated
women interpret this as being a "good" contented baby. Still, three pounds
is an extreme amount to not notice!
Lucy Towbin, MSW,IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:34:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Salon magazine--"Got Milk?"
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The featured topic in Salon.com's *very* popular discussion area (called
"Table Talk") is whether American moms are being put under too much pressure
to breastfeed. You can join the discussion--called "Got Milk?"--by going to
Salon.com, then to Table Talk, then to the "Mothers Who Think" boards, then
to the breastfeeding discussions. An MD just joined in by saying that we
shouldn't be so pushy about breastfeeding.
Katie Allison Granju
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:30:33 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump sharing
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>What I tell moms is (disclaimer: as a lay counselor not a LC or rental
>station, I have a lesser responsibility, I know), "As long as you would be
>willing to drink out of her glass" or "give your child a drink out of her
>glass."
I ask if they would like to use that other person's toothbrush...
Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that they
miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is lost when
raking leaves. ~Marcelene Cox ~
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:34:19 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Liz Brooks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: hypermastia
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Ruth Lawrence (in her 4th edition, at p. 41) describes hypermastia as "the
presence of accessory mammary glands, which are phylogenic remnants of the
embryonic mammary ridge. [A]ccessory nipples and glandular tissue may be
found along these lines ... [o]ccasionally, supernumerary glands are found
in the urogenital region, on the buttocks, or on the back as well.
Weatherly-White RCS: Plastic surgery of the female breast. Hagerstown,
MD 1980, Harper & Row." She also writes that sites of ectopic nipples,
areolae or breast tissue can lactate or undergo malignant change (same
cite).
It would appear that hypermastia will not affect mom's ability to
breastfeed from her "regular" breasts; she may also lactate from the
supernumerary sites.
===
Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:59:04 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Liz Brooks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: paladai study in Philadelphia
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You may be interested to read the article in today's Philadelphia
Inquirer, regarding a clinical trial at five Philadelphia hospitals on the
use of a paladai for babies having trouble breastfeeding. See:
http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/99/May/24/magazine/BABY24.htm
===
Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:12:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joyce Blangiardo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Salon article on Tabitha Walrund
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Lucy wrote...
...Still, three pounds is an extreme amount to not notice!.....
and Lucy, IMNSHO anyone who saw the baby would immediately have known
something was critically wrong. It could NOT have gone unnoticed. These
EXTREMELY upsetting pictures were all over the local NY news shows here.
They played again and again all day long. I had difficulty wrapping my
brain around what these pictures revealed. The phrase skin and bones does
not begin to describe what the photo's showed.
My question for all of you is this....Please tell me, am I correct in
thinking the pictures were shown only here in NYC? How about NYS? Other
states?
Every one of the Lamaze classes I've taught since the trial has needed time
to process what they viewed. Their consensus, after watching the pictures
on TV was that anyone seeing the baby toward the end would have known
something was very wrong. So, I too agree with Kathy that we don't know all
of the facts of the case.... Yes, it's given us another opportunity to
educate the community about breastfeeding. But this situation is, IMO,
about FAR more issues than breastfeeding.
Sadly wondering what went wrong in the village that was raising this child,
Joyce Blangiardo RN, LCCE, FACCE, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:21:36 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Maurenne griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Udderly ridiculous
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Moooo!
It really drives me nuts to have breasts compared to udders. Yes, they are
both mammary glands, but humans and cattle are sooo different. Udder
cream on a cracker for this doubting doc sounds like a wonderful appetizer.
Do not use udder cream or bag balm on a mom's breasts or your hands! We
have a small herd of registered Hereford cattle (raised for beef, not
milk). I wouldn't use it for my hands or our cows as it's ingredients
include anhydrous lanolin and propylene glycol (AKA antifreeze!).
Occasionally, we'll have a cow who has an injured udder, not from improper
latch, mind you, but from dragging it through the brush. We'll apply some
bacitracin and Lansinoh to it. It might be more expensive to use
Lansinoh, but it works! If it's a deep cut, we'll also stitch it up, using
the same type of products perhaps used on a human-sterile water, suture,
xylocaine and a systemic antibiotic.
A lot of the veterinary medical products we use on our cattle are the exact
same products we use with humans-antibiotics, oxytocin, epinephrine,
xylocaine, etc. The only thing that appears different is the "for
veterinary use only" label.
My advice-steer (no pun intended) clear of the bag balm for breasts, hands
and udders.
Maurenne in Kansas....it's an absolutely gorgeous day!
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:29:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Paula M. R. Hart" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump sharing
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>What I tell moms is (disclaimer: as a lay counselor not a LC or rental
>station, I have a lesser responsibility, I know), "As long as you would be
>willing to drink out of her glass" or "give your child a drink out of her
>glass."
What makes sense to me is (same disclaimer), "Would you be willing to allow
her to nurse your child because this is basically what is occurring."
Paula Hart
Charlleston, SC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:31:24 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: looking for an ILCA session tape
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Would anyone have a copy of an audio tape from an ILCA conference
(sorry, there is no year on the cassette I've got) from a session called
"meeting low income mothers' needs". It is session A585. My copy is
totally blank, no audible tones or voices. I called First Tape and they
said they no longer have the masters to that session. I will also
contact the ILCA office to see if someone there has a copy I can borrow.
But until then, can one of my Lactnet friends help me out? I've got lots
of tapes you can listen to in exchange.
Thanks,
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC
Romeoville IL
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:26:39 -0400
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From: PrMechell Roberts Turner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bag balm/udder cream
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Well the farmer in me is going to speak. Folks bag balm and udder cream are
two different intities (sp?) well bag balm (brand name) comes in a metal
tin: is green with a cow painted on it. It is a petroleum based product.
contains petroleum jelly, coaltars, pine tars, menthol. lanolin, camphor.
this is to be washed off it is not for use on humans at all. even most of
the cow and goat farmers around here do us it on animals but only
occasionally. it is gooy and looks like a dark smelly vaseline.
Now udder cream is a smooth white cream made with the same kinds of stuff we
women appreciate in a good quality hand cram or skin lotion. suitible for
breast massage, and even during labor for masage on back and belly. it
contains allantoin, dimethicone, lanolin in an emmoklient base. I do believe
it is water based. wahes off easy. i have used it on very engorged breasts
before cabbage and pumping to encourage lymphatic drainage. it is lightly
fragranced athough no fragrance or the word fragrance isnot on the list of
ingredients.
I guess this sounds picky but there is a difference. Maybe only a farmer
would understand that uses it daily. Also you get udder cream at wlmart.
bag balm is available at local farm supplies. you can also get udder cream
at the supply warehouse stop in an see the difference.
Mechell Turner, M.Ed IBCLC, CCE
yes I live on a farm!
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From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 8:48 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 23 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-269)
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:44:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump sharing
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Does anyone have recommendations about what *can* be done with a used pump?
Specifically, I have a PIS that I no longer need. Are there parts that can
be reused or recycled somehow? Does Medela have any sort of program along
these lines? I don't care about the monetary aspect -- I just cringe at the
idea of throwing away something so valuable. Thoughts?
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:11:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Christine Betzold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: back/leg pain with nipple stimulation
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A few weeks ago I posted regarding a mom who complained of increasing
back/leg pain directly linked to nipple stimulation via baby of pump. The
pain specifically waxed and waned with the presences or absence of nipple
stimulation.
Thanks to all who replied, it was helpful.
Here is a summary of what I have found out. The possible etiologies of the
increasing pain were:
!) Confusing uterine pain with back pain. Possible but not likely since the
pain traveled down her leg.
2) Oxytocin. Could this increase pain by increasing blood flow to either the
area of the brain that receives pain messages or to her back? Maybe. Hmmm.
Any ideas?
3) The breasts are innervated via the sympathetic nervous system. Could
nipple stimulation (or sympathetic nervous system stimulation) possibly
augment the pain
pathways? I spoke with a neurologist and he replied that most of the
evidence is showing that this is not a mediator of pain. But, then he also
said that is was possible since we still do not really know that much about
how pain occurs.
4) Lastly, maybe the patient somehow began to associate the two and developed
a Pavlov's dog sort of response.
Clearly, whatever the cause, this woman's pain was not controlled leading to
failure to thrive in her infant and ultimately discontinuation of
breastfeeding. How sad for both her and her infant to be robbed of the
benefits of breastfeeding by an inability to control her pain. Only
ibuprofen was offered.
I will forward the input from those Lacknetters who wrote about the pain
they also had as well as some of the insightful suggestions for controlling
her pain. Thanks again and if anyone else has any info to help explain this
phenomenon, please feel free to offer your input.
Christine Betzold MSN, RNP, CLE
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Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 13:06:45 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: clems-sapea <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 21 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-261)
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Why not just use good old breast milk on the nipples,I don't recommend using
any sort of cream on nipples these days.Although when I started midwifery,we
use to usezinc ream,castor oil and tinc benz co,sure gave dry nipples and no
cracks but you had to wash it off before every feed and it stained breast
pads and bras.The maternity hospital I work at simply recommends the use of
breast milk(hindmilk) on the nipples and airing for cracked nipples.
Anne Clements RN RM BNS
QLD(generally known as sunny but currently has been raining off and on for
several weeks) Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 22 May, 1999 12:10
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 21 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-261)
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:20:15 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: more boys than girls?
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I think my clinical figures would run similar to Pat's and it has something
to do with the epidural IMHO. Hoever, please also remember the hospital
I've mentioned before with like a 90% epidural rate and the baby doesn't
leave recovery room until it has nursed (unless there is a really big
problem). I didn't see the suck problems there that I've seen elsewhere.
Back to my old song and dance - don't separate mothers and any of their
babies (M or F) if at all possible. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:37:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: looking for an ILCA session tape
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Dear Mary Kay, the most I can help you with is to say that I believe the
"A" series was 1990 in Scottsdale. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:56:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump sharing
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It is my opinion that it is fine to share breast pumps with people we know and to sell them when we have finished with them.
Are we forgetting that we are talking about *breastfeeding* and *breastmilk* here? We can get too caught up in the war against bacteria--hence antibacterial hand soap and even dish soap. And all of this anti-bacterial use is *not* making us healthier. It is killing off all of the weak ones and leaving us with the "big boys." And yeast overgrowth.
Breastfed babies get plenty of natural antibacterial assistance every time they feed. Remember the expressed milk that has a lower bacteria count at 10 hours at room temperature than when is was first expressed? Our babies are meant to be exposed to bacteria and are stronger for having done so. They will be licked by the dog, suck on brother's finger, pick up bugs and lint off the floor, chew Dad's shoe, and be kissed by those who love them.
We are coming off a few generations of bottle feeding when babies were susceptible to every bacteria and virus coming down the pike and CLEAN was essential, but we have a new/old story. Breastfeeding babies are developing resistance every day to what their environment will offer them, and they have the help of their mothers' milk to protect and strengthen them.
I know that many of you work in very unsafe environments each day and you have to be ultra cautious about all of the bacteria and viruses in the hospital setting. It is hard to let go of this caution outside that setting. But when a baby goes home, she will be assimilated into the family and community, and sharing germs is a part of that healthy assimilation.
Family and friends share a lot of things (fortunately) and they are going to share breast pumps (and even breasts), and sell them (the pumps) when they no longer need them. We can caution them to wash kits well just as they would the dishes that they will also share, or buy their own kits but, in my opinion, too much caution sounds like bottle feeding protocols. And makes breastfeeding too different from just life.
Others on this list will have a different opinion from mine, and each of us will, as always, respond to mothers' questions as fits our particular view. And we don't all have to agree, do we?
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:27:44 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Megan & David Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: more boys than girls?
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Pat, I have a question for you. I am at a large urban hospital (Parkland in
Dallas). We are pretty much a baby factory. I have heard SO many times
"We can't (fill in the blank) because we are too busy." I would like to have
more babies in our recovery room, but many of the charge nurses are reluctant
to allow babies in. (Because they are too busy). I have been told that we
cannot have any babies in the recovery room if
1. any mom in the RR has experienced a fetal demise
2. any mom in the RR has had a baby go to ICN or ACN (a special care nursery)
3. we have any patients in the extended care unit (a pt that may be pregnant,
or post partum, that has some kind of complication)
How have you sorted out these kinds of issues at your hospital?
Megan Schmidt, RN, IBCLC
> please also remember the hospital
> I've mentioned before with like a 90% epidural rate and the baby doesn't
> leave recovery room until it has nursed (unless there is a really big
> problem).
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:45:27 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pushy about breastfeeding??????
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<An MD just joined in by saying that we shouldn't be so pushy about
breastfeeding.>
pushy about breastfeeding?
When is the last time any of you have actively convinced a woman to
breastfeed....post-nataly, if she did not want to do so in the first
place?
For me it was yesterday and it was the most uncomfortable situation I
have been in in a long time. One of the anesthesiologists , the
epidural god, came up to me in the hallway yesterday and was very
friendly. Until now he has never even said hello to me, probably
because all his danger receptors go off when I am around "Beep, beep,
enemy!!"
He told me that his sister had just given birth, having taken a rest
from mothering for 18 years.....would I please convince her to
breastfeed.
I tried to explain to him nicely that this is not part of my job. I had
28 new moms who were dying to breastfeed and several of them were having
problems due to edema caused by unnecessarily long epidurals (hint,
hint), and I had three sets of twin moms in the NICU who were waiting
for me to help them get their babies to breast for the first time, etc.,
etc. He said please about 5 times, which for a doc is like getting down
on all fours and begging, (no offense to Lactdocs!!), so I agreed to go
in and speak to her.
But first I wanted to make a deal with him......I would go into her if
he promised to convince moms NOT to take epidurals the minute they enter
L&D, and if he could perhaps explain to them before he started inserting
sharp instruments into their spines, that this procedure may effect the
outcome of breastfeeding or the baby's health in general or even the
mom's. He looked at me as if I had just landed from outer space. He
did ask for material on the subject!!
Anyway, his sister was about as interested in breastfeeding as I am in
car mechanics ( minus zero) and it was so awkward to stand there
explaining to this woman who was watching tv over my shoulder while I
spoke. I did convince the doc, who was in the room with me, and he said
that he learned many things that he didn't know before, so it wasn't a
total loss. He couldn't believe that I NEVER do that, at least not
with women who are post-delivery. In pre-natal courses maybe, but
never trying to convince a woman who is totally uninterested. I had a
room full of ladies waiting for me who were dying to breastfeed!!
Are any of you pushy? Try to think of the last time you have actually
convinced a mom who had no intention of breastfeeding to do so. Maybe if
I worked in a small hospital with very few births, I would do so out
of boredom?? as a challenge?
If she had come to my breastfeeding class, I would have stressed certain
points which I sometimes emphasize when a bottle-feeding mom happens to
wander into my class by mistake and I see that it may not be too
late,but I do it so discreetly that she doesn't even feel that she is
being coerced.
OK, now I have to go prepare a bunch of goodies for the epidural god.
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
Lis Maternity Hospital
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 01:23:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Breastfeeding support and outcome
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Question for the collected wisdom:
There are several studies showing any breastfeeding support helps
breastfeeding "success" and duration. Are there any studies which
specifically look at CLC or IBCLC education/consultation and breastfeeding
outcome ?
Nancy Wight MD, FAAP, IBCLC
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:40:07 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Fran H. Jaffe" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Working Mom losing milk supply for a.m. feed
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Dear Fellow Professionals:
I have a problem that I need help with. A working mom who travels is using
an electric breast pump while at work that her company supports and
encourages. Her baby is almost 5 months old and just last week she is
unable to get a let down or a milk supply for the first feeding in the
morning. She breastfeeds the baby at 9:30 p.m. and they both sleep through
the night. In the morning, she wakes up to feed the baby at 6:00 or 6:30
a.m. and there is no breast fullness, no let down, the baby sucks and
nothing comes. When she showers and then tries, still nothing. This first
occurred last week while she was traveling and pumped for all feedings, but
got nothing in the morning. About two weeks before this happened, she went
from pumping two times a day (@10:00a.m. & 2:00 p.m.) to only pumping at
10:00 or 10:30 a.m. She also started baby on solids of baby cereal about 3
weeks ago. Mom says that by 10:00 she is full and can pump 8 oz., and has
plentiful supply for the two evening feedings at home. She is feeling very
guilty and getting anxious about this a.m. feeding, afraid that no milk will
come. What can I tell this mom to help her out? Thank you for your help.
Sincerely,
Fran H. Jaffe, MPH, RD, CLE
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:19:11 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jean Ridler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More boys than girls?
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My understanding is that circumcision is still common in the USA. I
don't know when this is done, but could the trauma of this procedure
(especially without adequate analgesia/anaesthesia) perhaps impact on
the baby's behaviour, i.e. suckling, leading to a longer time before
effective breastfeeding is established?
Jean Ridler RN RM IBCLC
Cape Town, South Africa
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:04:33 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: giving up on bf
Comments: cc: Yaron Dorf <[log in to unmask]>
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>What to do with a 4 months old baby who keeps breast feeding every hour,
>doesn't take
>a pacifier. The longest periods between the feedings is 1 and a half hour.
>The mother
>is tired of all this and want to switch to a bottle !!!
I expect in some people's (like Kathy D) opinion this is probably 'normal'
;), but I can understand how a Western mother would take this as meaning
she should go to the bottle.
Two possibilities spring immediately to my mind, according to other signs
in the baby - either:
- too little milk (ie low supply and baby struggling to get enough), or
even just a growth spurt (has this been going on all along, or recent
development?), or
- too much milk so baby is getting colicky from lactose overload. Food
intolerances could be involved here making baby unsettled and wanting to
feed for comfort frequently, plus adding to problem with lactose overload.
Can you give us more details about baby's output, weight gains, earlier
feeding history, etc?
******************************************************************
Joy Anderson B.Sc. Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. IBCLC
Nursing Mothers' Association of Australia Breastfeeding Counsellor
Perth, Western Australia. mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:07:29 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: carolyn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dusky arms and legs
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i All,
Has anyone heard of poorish feeding being responsible for dusky episodes
in arms and legs?
This is Mum's third child, others breastfed for 8 weeks until Mum went
back to work.
This one born 11 days ago at term, normal delivery, seemed to feed well
according to her midwife. Lost weight for one week. Apparently was
having dusky episodes, not related to feeding times, on her lower arms
and legs. Was checked out by a doctor, heart sounded normal.
I rang her last Thursday, Mum described good positioning. I suggested
breast compression over the weekend and said I would see her today,
Monday.
Baby was admitted to hospital on Saturday because of the continuuing
dusky times. Had started to gain a little weight. Urine output good.
Stools only once evey few days, normal when they did occur.
When I watched a feed today, the baby was unable to get comfortable on
one side so fed on the other. Fixed well but took a long time to get
into a good sucking rythm with sounds of swallowing, did not feed
vigorously. Took herself off the breast spontaneously, looked contented.
No tongue-tie.
I suspect that she did not take enough milk at this feed, but this is
gut instinct only, cannot put my finger on why I think this.
I suggested that Mum pump after feeds and give some of this milk as a
small supplement after feeds. To feed frequently, but baby is doing this
already. I think the sucking will become stronger when baby has gained
more weight.
Doctors say that the dusky times are due to her peripheral circulation
shutting down because she is underfed. At 11 days she is only 10g below
birthweight.
This explanation sounds like rubbish to me, I have seen many babies very
under weight and none have done this. However before I say this I need
other opinions in case I am missing something!
Thanks,
--
Carolyn Westcott RN IBCLC Southampton UK
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--
Carolyn Westcott RN IBCLC Southampton UK
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:53:42 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Recovery rooms
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>I would like to have
>more babies in our recovery room, but many of the charge nurses are reluctant
>to allow babies in.
We don't have recovery rooms in the UK - I take it these are rooms the new
mother goes to after birth, and before going to the postnatal ward?
In the most mother-friendly places here, mothers labour and give birth and
recover in the same room, normally a single room. They then go with their
babies to the ward.
However, in the past it was common for mothers to undergo first stage in
one place, and then be moved to a delivery room at the start of second
stage - and this was very uncomfortable to be moved from one bed to a
trolley and then to another bed, all when you are dying to push. Now, this
is unknown.
It looks to me as if the recovery room has a major side-effect of allowing
mothers to be 'processed' through the system...depersonalising them, and
making it easier for staff to run the system according to the needs of the
institution (taking the babies away).
I can see it appears kinder to mothers who have lost their babies not to
see another mother with hers - but surely bereaved mothers should be able
to be alone in a room with their partners anyway, and not with other
mothers?
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:09:51 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bill Sears
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Can someone please let me know Bill Sears' email or other contact info,
privately? Thanks.
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:09:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Preemies/Hospital protocol
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I am interested in seeing any hospital protocol for breastfeeding for
premature infants. If anyone has one to share, I would be most grateful.
Kind regards,
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:40:07 -0400
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From: Douglas Rice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LACTNET
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I'm a WIC breastfeeding peer counselor and interested in obtaining IBCLC
certification. Thank-you for easy access to professional discussion and
commentary.
Heather Gehron-Rice
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:37:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: circ/boys
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Oh yeah, we still do that almost universally. After circ, about 1/3 shut
down and sleep, about 1/3 are irritable and about 1/3 act like nothing
happened. Makes for a rough day BF some of them. This is why I like Linda
Kutner's hospital policy of 3 good BF before circ. (1997 Conf book, pg.5
of Baby Who refuses to BF).
But the poor suck R/T epidural is seen even before the circ. If they
happen to be poorly sucking and have a circ and shut down, we are in for a
long haul. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:52:51 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Recovery rooms
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Dear Heather, many US hospitals are changing to labor, delivery, recovery
rooms (one room) and some even include L,D, R & P -postpartum. Depending
on the hospital the baby usually goes to a transition nursery for all the
tests etc. for a period of time. The better places just do it all in
mom's room. Many drs and nurses have a fear of doing anything in front of
the parents which is silly to say the least, but we are bucking big time
birth traditions here.
Remember this is a medical process (not a birth :-( There are places that
are beginning to stand out as great examples of how to do it, but still far
too many that have labor (1 room) delivery (another room) recovery (another
room) and postpartum (another room) !!!!! Or any combination of the
above. Physically the way the units are set up precludes any other system
and change involves big bucks. Guess who pays for plans for new units?
You're right, the people who see mother/baby separation as a good thing -
ta ta - the formula cos. Any hospital who is renovating is going to LDR or
LDRP. Makes sense in containing costs! Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:56:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Recovery room
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Most recovery rooms are individual, but some are still big rooms and
present all the problems you mentioned. As I said in another note, some
hospitals are stuck with a physical set-up that doesn't lend itself to
private recovery. But I would hope that any hospital with these poor sort
of set-ups would be looking to change eventually to the newer LDRP model.
Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
> 1. any mom in the RR has experienced a fetal demise
> 2. any mom in the RR has had a baby go to ICN or ACN (a special care
nursery)
> 3. we have any patients in the extended care unit (a pt that may be
pregnant,
> or post partum, that has some kind of complication)
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:00:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: dusky arms and legs
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Well what does her echocardiogram look like? Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:13:27 EDT
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Subject: Re: Need help with mom with milk bleb please!
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Hi Jackie,
I am a little behind on my posts so this may be too late.
A bleb tends to have the pain focused at that sight and just behind it. If
she doesn't describe burning pain I would not assume yeast.
I worked with one mom who had a reccurrent bleb. The OB opened it with a
sterile needle then used an instrument for blocked tear ducts to prob the
opening and she found relief and as far as I have heard has not reoccured. I
then had the mom use an antibotic ointment on the nipple, such as Bactroban
BID.
Good luck.
Ann Perry RN IBCLC
Boston , Mass
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:23:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Epidural god
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In a message dated 5/25/1999 12:09:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< OK, now I have to go prepare a bunch of goodies for the epidural god.
Esther Grunis, IBCLC
Lis Maternity Hospital
Tel Aviv, Israel
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Esther,
Loved your post on Lactnet. We are all cheering for you. You speak the
truth!!!
Jane Bradshaw RN,BSN, IBCLC
Lynchburg, VA
USA
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:05:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judie A Piotrowski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 24 May 1999 to 25 May 1999 - Special iss
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regarding circs. I have found if infants are sleepy to do the circ that day.
If we wait until they are more alert they go back into their sleepy state and we
start all over. If they are already sleepy when when we do the circ we have not
lost ground and by the next day they are awake and ready to nurse. Judie
Piotrowski RN IBCLC MPLS, MN
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:24:07 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Working Mom losing milk supply for a.m. feed
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I'd say that her *timing* of reduced and rescheduled pumping, that trip, and starting solids was most unfortunate. The common 4-month drop in milk supply after the period of scheduled feeds, sleeping throught the night, and pumping coincided with those other events which could reduce the milk supply in themselves.
At the 4 month time a mother must be diligent in emptying the breasts regularly or the end of breastfeeding is in sight. There is even the possibility, with so little breast emptying, that her menses is returning, which affects milk supply in some women.
She could take Fenugreek and Blessed Thistle and do some frequent pumping for a few days and perhaps she could regain the milk supply. If you'd like information about More Milk tincture, which I have had good luck with, let me know.
And "lose" those solid foods. Sounds like the OLD advise of starting solids at 4 months. I'll bet that baby is not sitting alone, which cues the digestive enzymes for assimilation of nutrients from solids. She is replacing breastmilk, with full nutrition, with lower nutritive solid foods, which are being poorly digested and which could affect the vigor with which baby is feeding at the breast.
It's amazing that, when a baby is started on solids, and everything starts going wrong, so few people will recommend to mom that she eliminate the solids. I have seen babies with serious, painful constipation following the introduction of solids and the Ped says, "Oh he will get used to it after a while. Just give him some Caro Syrup or prune juice."
With good advise and support she could regain her supply.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:52:58 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: dusky arms and legs
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A baby who is only 10 g under birthweight at 11 days is getting enough
calories (or nearly so). I doubt the breastfeeding has anything to do with
the dusky spells. The baby needs to be evaluated for cardiac problems, CNS
problems, metabolic problems.
Linda Shaw MD FAAP
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:12:58 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Walrond responsible
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> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:44:03 -0500
> From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Tabitha Walrond case and breastfeeding advocate's hysteria
>
> when people insist that this
> mother should not have had to bear *any burden of responsibility* for
> noticing that her baby was starving to death, it just makes them look foolish.
>
> Kathy Dettwyler
>
Which brings me to my previous comment: why force this woman to take a responsibility she was not ready (or
supposedly competent) to take? Why is abortion denied to indigent people? Who is really responsible for the
death of this baby?
Nicole Bernshaw
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:09:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Walrond case
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Joyce wrote,
<< Yes, it's given us another opportunity to educate the community about
breastfeeding. But this situation is, IMO, about FAR more issues than
breastfeeding. >>
I agree with you Joyce, that there is a lot more going on there. And though
at first I was proud of the bf advocates that flew to Tabitha Walrond's
defense, now I am even ambivalent about that.
Think about it: the prosecution makes a case -- apparently a pretty strong
case -- for straight neglect, and the DEFENSE says, No, it was breastfeeding
failure, bf is so hard that a mother could starve her child and never know it.
And whose side does the infant feeding community -- meaning, me, and most of
you -- flock to?
I have a bad feeling that we, as a group, were on the wrong side of this one.
We were so quick not to let a bf mother be blamed, that we would have
effectively let her blame bf instead of herself.
I myself will think differently about these cases next time, sad to say.
Pensive in NYC, Elisheva
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:09:50 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: pump sharing
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Kathy Koch wrote:
<< I ask if they would like to use that other person's toothbrush... >>
Yes -- I think that works fine too.
The point is not to encourage people to share pumps -- though as 2000 of my
close friends now know I don't think doing so is necessarily nightmarish. I
think Pat Gima's reminder about the different levels of vulnerability of
artificially fed vs bf babies is very apt here.
But my mind the most important thing is that when we remind them of the
sanitary aspect it is important, I think, to do it in *normal* terms, not
offputtingly "hospital-ish" terms.
Elisheva
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:13:49 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Working Mom losing milk supply for a.m. feed
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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This mother is simply not stimulating her supply often enough, as far as I
can tell.
I make it that her total pumping and feeding amounts to 3 times a day - and
not at all at night.
Not enough - plain and simple. But if she feeds a lot, lot more (maybe at
weekends and when she is with the baby) and ditches the solids, she may
retrieve the situation.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:04:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: dusky arms and legs
Comments: To: carolyn <[log in to unmask]>
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Carolyn, I agree with your assessment of the "explanation" for the dusky
arms and legs, and I'm concerned about this situation. Are you (or, more to
the point, the mom of this baby) convinced that an adequate cardiac
evaluation has been done? I can't say that I've seen "poorish feeding"
causing dusky arms & legs, but I have seen cardiac problems causing poor
feeding. I suppose that if the baby isn't feeding well, for whatever reason,
she could be dropping body temp - that might cause mottling, or pallor, but
duskiness?
I don't like the sound of it...
Cathy Bargar RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:31:24 -0500
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From: "D. McCallister" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: About being pushy...
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Just a little story...
I participate in a mailing list of SAHM's, of whom about half are/were
nursing mothers. One woman on the list claimed throughout her pregnancy
that she was "definitely" breastfeeding, and also refused any gifts of
formula or coupons from other list members. Two weeks after the birth
of her daughter, she announced in a series of posts to the group that
she had "discovered" she didn't have enough milk (by pumping); that when
she gave formula, her baby vomited; that breastfeeding was "very
important" to her; that she "didn't have a choice" about quitting. She
also noted that she never had any pain associated with breastfeeding.
The nursing mothers on the list all jumped in to support her & encourage
her, all with sound advice -- cheering her on. Within a few days, a
private mailing went out to all the breastfeeders, asking the group to
"stop harrassing and pressuring her" and to "respect her personal
decision to use formula."
I believe she was never interested in breastfeeding, but thought it was
the correct anwer to give to the world. Thus, she perceived
encouragement as pressure. I don't think her situation is uncommon.
I'm going to make a sweeping generalization and say that the typical
women who breastfeeds for any length of time beyond early infancy is the
type of person who freely speaks her mind. It's easy to assume that
others are as frank and decisive, when really they are speaking in
euphamisms such as "I can't" when they really mean "I don't want to."
And if you don't interpret that message in that way, then you will be
labeled "pushy."
I think, however, it is better to be pushy and risk offending those who
are going to quit anyway, than to be demure and lose the ones who might
have succeeded if you'd been more authortative!
Debbie McCallister
Louisville, Kentucky
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:23:01 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: pushy about breast feeding
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I have read with interest the notes on being "pushy" about breastfeeding. As
a practicing OBGYN, I am often the first person who brings up the subject of
breastfeeding. I don't let this opportunity slip away. If we physicians do
not support, and support strongly, breastfeeding, then why should we even
bother to talk about subjects such as weight control and diet, smoking, drug
use, etc. in the context of providing patient care? I will stop talking
about any of these subjects (and yes, will even stop being "pushy" about
them) when someone can show me the research that none of them really matter
to our overall health. It is just as important to "push" breastfeeding as it
is to "push" smoking cessation, moderation in alcohol use, exercise for
health maintenance, and all the other lifestyle modifications we know to be
beneficial. I for one will continue to try to convince my patients to
breastfeed by using the best tools I have: education and information
Stewart Kernes, DO
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:32:23 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: SAK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: warning :potientailly hazardous to grandmoms
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Since mom told me she was starting to feel guilty for holding and feeding
>the baby so much we had a long talk which led to the work/writing of the
>good Dr Kathy D.
>I Emailed mom Kathy's web page but warned her ahead of time, "If grand mom
>reads this she might have a heart attack or a stroke."
>-Rob
>
Eek, does this mean I need to put a disclaimer on Kathy D's web site saying
if it causes stroke or other damage, sue her, not her webmaster? :-)
Of course, it could be all those bright, curly graphics I put on there
recently. Those ARE my fault.
Sue Ann Kendall, [log in to unmask]
Austin, Texas
webmaster to Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:02:46 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: dusky arms and legs
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I can't say that I've seen "poorish feeding"
>causing dusky arms & legs,
My preemie twins used to get dusky when they nursed (36 weekers) but not
really the arms or legs. But then again they were in winter clothes. Their
faces used to get dusky.
Patti c.
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:14:15 -0400
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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I am wondering, if all of us are dealing with this issue...sharing of the
PNS...why aren't we pressuring Medela to start making it a sharing friendly
pump? Surely, it would not be that difficult to devise a filter that would
make it such.
This is a revenue issue...would we be so friendly to a company that made
another poduct with a "no sharing" policy attached? We live in a world with
limited landfill space and dwindling resources. Is it OK to make a $300.00
item that is disposable????
Susan
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: dusky..
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Carolyn:
I am working with a baby that at low was almost 500 grams below birth
weight.. he did not have dusky spells and his skin color was good.
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:27:16 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: boys
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Jean;
Yes circumcision is comon in the US. usually it is done prior to discharge
as a way to get insurace to pay the cost. Yes, we see baby boys shut down
after this procedure.
I believe that some of the md's on this list wait for established bf
before the procedure. If bf is rocky this certianly can add to the problems.
The time span of separation is also a factor in this. how log is the baby
away from the mother before and after the procedure.
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:37:34 EDT
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Subject: Re: dusky baby
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Carolyn,
This baby has a heart problem, whether the doctors can hear a murmur or not.
Have they done an electrocardiogram, cardiac ultrasound or other heart
studies? Is the baby well hydrated? Moist mucus membranes, flat fontanelles?
Underfed babies will turn yellow due to higher concentrations of bilirubin in
the blood. They don't turn dusky if the heart is pumping.
Margie Forrest, RN, BSN, IBCLC (used-to-be CCRN...critical care registered
nurse)
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:45:44 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Dear Friends:
Last night, in the breastfeeding class of a childbirth preparation
series, we were talking about options. I had presented the WHO
recommendations for infant feeding (1-milk directly from mother, 2-milk
expressed from mother, 3- donor milk, and lastly breastmilk substitutes.)
The question came up "why is mother's milk expressed in a bottle 2nd on the
list?" This was from a mother who will be returning to her job when her baby
is 4 months old, and is already guilty and sad about that.
I held the model baby to my breast and said "Because there is no
substitute of equivalent value to this (baby at mom's breast)." Then we
discussed some about breastfeeding being more than merely feeding the infant.
This was an uncomfortable situation. This mother wanted to hear that EBM via
bottle was as good as breastfeeding; I could not validate that perception,
despite my anguish at her discomfort, and my validation that she is doing the
best that she can do.
As long as we take care of people's feelings and tell them that what
they are doing is just as good as the real thing, there will never be change
in society. We need lots of upset mothers and families to make a critical
mass for change so that mothers don't have to leave their babies to work.
While EBM in a bottle is an excellent option for mothers who must leave their
babies, it is not the best thing for infants. When we as a society take that
seriously, change will occur.
There have been similar situations in classes where a nurse learns
about the hazards of breastmilk substitutes, the risks of bottles, and the
disadvantages of glucose water for early feeds. "What is best to give
babies?" is the question. "What is the best formula to give?" The answer is
"None of the above. Hospitals can keep 100 ounces of frozen donor milk on
hand, to give to newborns who must be supplemented." Why are we accepting
anything less than the best for our babies? Why are our present choices not
good enough when we have the evidence supporting the best choices and the
technology to provide it?
Warmly, Nikki Lee
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:40:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tabitha Waldron case and hysteria
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Most of what I know about this case comes from lactnet, as I've been
deliberately avoiding news from TV, radio, print media, etc. (Sometimes it
all is just too much to take in, and I just flop over like a tender seedling
exposed to too much sun...)
But I feel like I have to say this: babies die sometimes. Some of them are
breastfed babies, some of them are formula-fed babies, some (like in this
case) are not-fed-at-all babies. So while there are many lessons that can be
taken from what we know of this story, most particularly the importance of
having many eyes and ears and voices following up with new moms and babies
so that these things don't "slip through the cracks", it was obviously NOT
breastfeeding that caused this baby to die. Now, I know that you all here
know that, no use preaching to the converted; but it's equally clear to me
that there is no use in us BF advocates rising to the bait that this sad
story (or its presentation by the media, more accurately) sets out.
It isn't about BFing, it isn't about bottle-feeding. I guess we don't know
what-all it's about, but it's at least in large measure about a young woman
whose ability to see and judge and act appropriately were impaired. We don't
know by what she was impaired - mental or emotional dysfunction, poor
judgement, insufficient information, past history/life's lessons, whatever.
We don't know. It's unfortunate, but sometimes bad things happen.
Mothers need to be responsible for their children, in our society. Society
needs equally to be responsible to parents in providing them the information
and support that they need to do the job - but it's parents' job to keep
their kids fed and appropriately cared for, and sometimes it just doesn't
happen. I truly do not say this coldly, nor am I "blaming" a parent here.
All I am trying to say is what is, always has been, always will be the case:
some people just can't do the job, and some babies die.
"Them vs. Us" thinking doesn't really help anyone, even when it's posited
as BF advocates vs. the formula-feeding culture. It's pleasurable sometimes,
and sometimes it's even accurate or correct, but very rarely does it help to
bring about a positive, inclusive climate where all of us can get what we
need. I don't wanna play this time around!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY (wondering if seeing so very much life and
death, even of babies, over the years has hardened me; what am I missing in
this story?)
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:48:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: boys
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone else out there wonder how long it will be until insurance
companies stop paying for circs? I mean, why should cosmetic surgery like
this be covered when something essential like a breastpump isn't?
Susan
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:47:12 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [Fwd: Toys "R" Us - Tracking Number 64832]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------25DE2FF6088AAE78CB5149F4"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------25DE2FF6088AAE78CB5149F4
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I am am into a heavy correspondence with Toys R Us about the formula
samples they gave out somewhere in Ohio. So far they haven't asked me
how I heard about it all the way here in Israel. Am I the only one who
is driving them crazy? I have gotten about 4 letters so far. Anyone
want to join me? This is fun.
How about you guys in Australia and Zimbabwe? Let them know that Big
Breast, I mean Brother, is watching!!
Esther Grunis
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Evi, I hope you are happy that I erased my identity!!!
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id <LM1WTSGT>; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:03:42 -0400
Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dornfeld, Valary" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Toys "R" Us - Tracking Number 64832
Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:03:59 -0400
X-Priority: 3
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Dear Ms. G,
Thank you for your e-mail regarding the baby formula.
We appreciate your comments and value your business. We will forward
your concerns to our Corporate Executives. The free sample is provided
as a courtesy to women when they register for our Baby registry. We are
aware of the benefits of breastfeeding and also, are aware that some
mothers are not able to breastfeed for different reasons. If the
recipient does not wish to use the free sample they may refuse it, they
may give it away or simply toss it out. Hospitals across the country
give a supply of infant formula to the mothers when they go home after
having given birth. We are sorry to hear of your displeasure and
appreciate your time in this matter.
Sincerely,
Valary Dornfeld
Customer Relations
--------------25DE2FF6088AAE78CB5149F4--
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:50:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more BF probs in boys?
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Well, the circ issue, for starters...
But perhaps it's just all part of the same reason that more male than female
fetuses are spontaneously aborted (miscarried, or die in-utero); I just
don't think that boys are as hearty as girls, or as well-wired-up to adapt
to life. We see this throughout life, don't we? It's those pesky little
chromosomes...
Girls rule!
Cathy B.
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:53:11 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kate Hallberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: potential head injury
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Why is it that children (adults too?) aren't supposed
to sleep following a blow to the head? I talked to a
mom whose toddler fell out of a shopping cart on her
head- cement store floor but with a thin entry way mat
over it. The toddler wanted to nurse for comfort but
kept falling asleep so mom couldn't let her nurse.
Mom wanted to know why it is that she couldn't allow
her to sleep.
I know this is a tangent, but many nurslings use
nursing as their first choice of comfort, so maybe it
happens to others. mailto:[log in to unmask]
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:02:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anne Cook <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walrond responsibility
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> why force this woman to take a responsibility she was not ready (or
> supposedly competent) to take? Why is abortion denied to indigent people?
Nobody forced her. In her nationally televised interview she said she finally hada boy (the baby) who would "love her forever."
This is the reason (IMHO) so many young girls decide to get pregnant...to have
"someone to love them." (These pregnancies are *not* "accidents...or birth control failures.)
Anne Cook
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:04:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hand pumps
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have had many good reports rgarding the Isis made by Avent.
Susan
[log in to unmask] on 05/22/99 03:21:40 PM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: Re: hand pumps
has anyone done comparrisons between the different hand pumps
available?
A mother asked about the H/ vs the A hand pumps- both with "flexishields"
thank you,
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:10:42 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Walrond responsible
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Nicole Bernshaw wrote:
> Which brings me to my previous comment: why force this woman to take a responsibility she was not ready (or
> supposedly competent) to take? Why is abortion denied to indigent people? Who is really responsible for the
> death of this baby?
>
> Nicole Bernshaw
>
Nicole--As I understand it she refused to have an abortion, not that she
was refused an abortion. She wanted to have this baby. She did not
want to abort it.
Melinda
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:15:33 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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In a message dated 5/25/99 9:15:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I am wondering, if all of us are dealing with this issue...sharing of the
PNS...why aren't we pressuring Medela to start making it a sharing friendly
pump? Surely, it would not be that difficult to devise a filter that would
make it such. >>
Susan,
The issue that comes up with the PNS (that I have seen) is that EBM is stored
in the same case as the pump motor. The bottles of EBM could leak into the
case and into the motor area.
Now we know that nothing moves thru the tubing but air so why am I
concerned?? Because milk that has leaked into the motor casing can grow into
a black mold. ( I'm sure most of us have seen that 'lovely' black mold grow
in tubing in which milk has overflowed) I know that molds grow by spores (am
I correct here?) and I don't know what if any damage this black mold can do
to babies.
I don't know if anyone has developed a filter that would work to prevent the
travel of mold spores or yeast. If they have boy would I love to hear about
it.
Just my $.02
Cheryl L Tompkins CLC
Phoenix, AZ USA
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:18:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: rice cereal and soy oil
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I can't get to the store and check this out but does anyone know about this?
<<Most rice cereal contains soy oil!! All the commercial rice cereal in the
US does at least... Gerber, Beachnut, etc.
My daughter was allergic to rice cereal, she stopped gaining and started
with asthma problems when we introduced rice cereal!!>>
This is the first I ever heard of soy oil in rice cereal. If it's true, it
gives a new meaning to rice cereal doesn't it?
Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:26:36 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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Another thought on sharing pumps.
If it is a motor that is not likely to be directly in contact with the milk
(like the N3 or the Hospital grade rental pumps) I don't see a problem with
sharing motors. I would however recommend a good sterilizing or purchase of a
new collection kit if necessary.
I work at a Very Large rental station. Some women keep their pump parts
immaculate others have milk build up on everything. If the parts are fairly
well kept up I offer to pressure sterilize parts (for a small fee) if the mom
is dead set against the price of a new collection kit but is concerned about
the safety of using someone else's part.
I personally would want a new collection kit. I do not want to force a mother
to my opinion, however. If it is the difference between using a friends pump
or feeding formula we have to ask 'Where is the greater danger to this child?'
Cheryl
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:32:08 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: blow to the head
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
because it may not be sleep -- it may be unconsciousness/coma, and you need
to keep the person awake and aware so you can monitor their neurological
functioning -- can they talk, do they know who they are/where they are/what
the date is/who the president is, can they follow a pen with their eyes,
can they touch their finger to their nose
all these neurological evaluation tools are done to monitor brain swelling
and potentially life-threatening pressure inside the skull
you can't do them if the person is asleep/unconscious
Kathy, been there, done that -- fell off my bike onto my head on August 30,
1988, which may explain a lot
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:53:40 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Johnson, Martha (PHMG)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: timing of mastitis Rx
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello Wise Ones,
i am wondering what info you have available as to how soon antibiotic
treatment is required for mastitis. Generally if a mom has fever >101 and
flu-like symptoms, we send her to the pharmacy right away (as opposed to the
woman who has a sore, red-streaked breast, but no fever or generalized
malaise). Last night at 10 PM (right after the last pharmacy in town
closes) I got a call from a mom with a high fever, sore, red breast, and flu
sx. I asked her to go to Urgent Care and get the required Rx, just to be on
the safe side. Could she have safely waited until morning, or would that
have put her at increased risk for a breast abcess?
Your responses are much appreciated.
Martha Johnson RN IBCLC
Eugene Oregon
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:44:07 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: dusky baby
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My own dusky newborn had persistent fetal circulation syndrome/newborn
pulmonary hypertension. The 02 levels in his blood were critically low. A
quick oximeter check might rule this out.
Katie Allison Granju
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:55:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kirsten Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bringing Baby to Work
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
All,
The San Jose Mercury News (San Jose, California) had a very positive piece
about bringing babies to work with their mothers (in the "Professional
Careers" section, of all places). Full text at:
http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/business/docs/kleiman23.htm
Mostly talks about infants, but, as I said, very positive in general. Note
that this will disappear from the site after Sunday, so check it soon :-)
Kirsten Jones
Nursing Mothers Counsel
Santa Cruz, California
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:04:07 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sore nipples / baby on and off
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
A mom Emailed me to day about sore nipples.
Baby is 1 week old, term doing well. I havent seen the baby but my partner
did in the nursery and she was seen a few days post d/c for breastfeeding
visit and doing well.
Mom describes the following:
"I'm trying to figure out exactly what she's doing, but my skin isn't see
through so I'm kind of guessing. Sometimes, she pushes me out halfway and
then sucks me back in and OUCH! She does that most often when she's pretty
much full and is more or less using me for a pacifier, but when she does
that, I have to take her off. As it is, little by little, I'm getting more
sore each day. I keep thinking that if I take her off every time she does
that, she'll learn not to do it, but I suppose I'm expecting too much too
soon. But by the end of the day, I don't want to think about nursing."
My thoguhts are use of breast compression to ensure a full feed and using a
finger to suck on after feeds as mom discribes the baby nursing alot.
This is baby #2 and #1 wasnt an easy breastfeeder.
Any other ideas?
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:52:16 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Working mum losing supply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi Pat,
>It's amazing that, when a baby is started on solids, and everything starts
>going
>wrong, so few people will recommend to mom that she eliminate the solids. I
>have seen babies with serious, painful constipation following the introduction
>of solids and the Ped says, "Oh he will get used to it after a while. Just give
>him some Caro Syrup or prune juice."
>
Ouch! You have just reminded me of my foolish mistake with my second
baby! I did exactly this (although she was 6mo at the time - 2 full
months after most British health visitors start pushing it). She had
such severe constipation, I had to give her gallons of prune juice,
which I am sure contributed to her weaning at 14mo. With my second baby,
I too started solids at 6mo, but when he had the same problem, I took
him off them again and he wasn't on regular solids until 8mo. He is
still nursing well at 14mo (with regards to my first baby, she was on
solids at 3mo, as was the UK advice at the time - that was so stupid I
have no words for it).
Anyway, my point in sharing this is that too often, mothers believe that
once solids are started, that is it. I was told that the baby would
"expect" solids and it would be cruel to withhold them. I believed this
the first two times. I make a point of telling mothers that (a) solids
are not recommended until around 6mo (most believe it must be *before*
6mo, preferably 4mo, or the baby will turn green and grow two heads or
something) and (b) if the baby doesn't take to solids, feel free to go
back to breastfeeding only...oh and (c) they don't need a cup in the
first year if you can nurse on demand :o)
I am aware that the issue isn't as simple as that, and would value your
opinions, but I got a call today from my sister to tell me that she had
taken my 5mo nephew off solids again, after she realised he wasn't
swallowing it! Despite dire predictions from her health visitor, she's
decided to just nurse more often to get her supply up :-)
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:52:51 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Working mum losing supply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Anna, you missed the other threat that (some!) HVs in the UK tell mothers
who 'delay' solids to six months.....there is a window of opportunity which
you must seize, and if you don't take it, your baby will not learn to
chew.....
And be on purees until he's 21 I suppose....
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:00:30 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: introduction
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello All,
My name is Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC (actually Denise) I am located in the
Dallas/Ft.Worth area of Texas, USA. Some interesting facts: teach/host
Breastfeeding Support Group for Mothers of Multiples dealing strictly with
new/expectant mothers of twins/triplets, occ. quads. I have twins myself, plus
one more. Survived (barely) HELLP syndrome. I look forward to associating
with you. My e-mail is Denny [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:12:07 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: induced lactation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I am helping a woman in an unusual situation. (I noted 1 similar in archives).
She and her husband have had their embryos implanted into a close friend who is
now 14 weeks pregnant with their TRIPLETS! She is interested in breast feeding
her babies when they get here. Several potential complications, 1)premature
birth 2)triplets 3)no previous live births, multiple infertility
issues(hormonal and malformed uterus). I am interested in ideas/suggestions
from anyone regarding how best to assist her. Is there a single up-to-date and
comprehensive source of information on induced lactation? Thank you, Denny
([log in to unmask])
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:05:15 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "A. Bon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: side preference
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Hello all,
I talked to a women with two sons. One had a preference for the left breast, the
second a prefenrece for the rigth breast.
The mother sees a correlation with the first breast the'd been offered after
birth. The one who was put to the left breast had a preference to this left
breast (and this breast had the largest production), the other one was put to
the rigth breast at the first nursing session, and he has a preference to the
rigth breast, and now this breast has the largest milk production.
Does anyone have seen this association before?
Annelies Bon
http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/abon/bfbronnen.htm
bf counsellor of the Dutch bf organization Borstvoeding Natuurlijk
webfrau www.borstvoeding.nl
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:09:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Susan Wittner, LLL Leader" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: boys vs girls ? impact of circumcision
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I think this discussion is pointing out how "studies" can skew in many
directions, depending on the specific data analyzed. (as we have seen so
often in bf or sids) That is why it can be so important to note what subjects
and their specific dynamics are included.
My experience with circumcision has been via the ritual route, done at 8 days
old. I won't get into the debate of pain, trauma, etc as not appropriate for
this list, except to say that at the many I have wittnessed, including my own
child's, there was minimal crying (usually ocurring when the child is
undressed) and the baby is put to breast as soon as the diaper is in place.
This is also quite a relief for mom whose breasts are usually leaking from
baby's crying! One mohel even did the post-circ check during the side switch!
Since non-ritual circumcision is usually done earlier, bf may be less well
established anyway, and any "events" are looked at as possible culprits.
Just my own observations-
Susan Wittner, RN, BSN, LLLL
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:04:57 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Stearns, Crystal" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Need HELP ASAP!!
Comments: To: "LACTNET (E-mail)" <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi,
If you are a hospital LC and have had a JCAHO official visit in the past 2
years I need to here from you. I have several questions being posed by my
administration that I need help with answering. Please e-mail me at
[log in to unmask]
or call me at 580.220.6432
or page me at 580.220.5058
Thanks Thanks Thanks
Crystal Stearns RNC, MS, IBCLC
Mercy Memorial Health Center
Ardmore, OK 73401
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:33:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: sara allen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Discover magazine
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-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 8:39 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 24 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-272)
while looking for something to read the other day in the coffe shop at work
i spied the June issue of Discover magazine. One of the articles that caught
my eye was "Human Breast Milk Kills cancer cells"Naturally i bought the
magazine,
The article talks about Catharina Svanborg a Swedish scienist pouring
breast milk ,and cancer cells together to find a way to fight germs. .You
must read this .
She made the quote,"The cancer cells ,she announced calmly,are committing
suicide"
Sara Allen B.F.C.
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:18:52 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Donna Hansen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: boys
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Susan wrote:
<<Does anyone else out there wonder how long it will be until insurance
companies stop paying for circs? I mean, why should cosmetic surgery like
this be covered when something essential like a breastpump isn't?>>
When we lived in Ontario, Canada the health insurance used to cover circs.
At some point it decided this was cosmetic surgery, or unecessary surgery,
and it wouldn't be covered. If you wanted it you had to pay for the
surgery, when it was done, cash or cheque. I would assume the rest of
Canada has this policy, I don't know if extended health plans cover this.
Donna Hansen
Burnaby, British Columbia
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:26:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Kathleen Miller, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Boys versus Girls
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I have always noticed more boys than girls having difficulty at the =20
breast=2E I haven't kept statistics (maybe I'll start now), but wondered =20=
=20
why=2E I can't blame it on the circs=2E Most of the circs here are done =20=
=20
right before they go home, and I'm called to see them well before that=2E =20=
=20
The nurses have always jokingly said it's because girls are smarter than =20=
=20
boys ( notice all female nursing staff)=2E But I wonder if it's not =20
something with the mother=2E We all know if a mother is tense she won't =20
have a let down and often the baby will fuss=2E I wonder if on a =20
subconscious level the mothers are more relaxed with the girls than the =20
boys for some reason=2E
Just a thought=2E
Kathy Miller in D=2EC=2E
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:25:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Kathleen Miller, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walrund Case
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I agree that none of us will probably ever know the truth in this case=2E =20=
=20
One question did come up in my mind over and over: WHERE WAS THIS =20
CHILD'S FATHER? There's a lot of talk of how the mother couldn't see the =20=
=20
weight loss, etc=2E, but couldn't the father? Didn't he have any visits =20
with his child? Couldn't he have insisted on taking the baby to a =20
doctor/hospital? It takes two to tango=2E Both parents were needed to =20
care for this boy=2E We all failed little Tyler, right on down the line=2E=
=20
Shameful=2E
Kathy Miller in D=2EC=2E
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:37:20 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pushy about Breastfeeding
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
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Stewart,
Cudos, to you! A a recent joint LLL Volunteers, WIC Staff, and Local
Breastfeeding Coalition meeting, I saw an awsome slide presentation
which showed the difference in BF rates and durtion between, Peer
Supported Mothers, Mothers who received no support, and Mothers whose
OB/Gyn or PED was supportive...Guess who won Hands down!
A supportive Doctor carries more weight with Pregnant Women, and Women
having difficulties (real or percieved) than any other, Health Care
Professional or Peer. Keep up the GREAT work!
Laura Wright
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:33:43 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Kathleen Miller, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Pushiness"
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Well, gang, I hate to tell you, my "pushiness" about breastfeeding =20
started before I became an IBCLC=2E I've been an O=2EB=2E nurse for 10 yea=
rs =20
and a Childbirth Educator for 7=2E It is the parent's responsibility to =20
care for the child they brought into the world=2E It's my job to help them=
=20
make informed choices=2E
If I'm "pushy" about breastfeeding, I'm just as "pushy" about car seats, =20=
=20
SIDS risks, second hand smoke, finding appropriate child care and child =20
proofing their homes=2E Can I help it if the benefits of breastfeeding far=
=20
outweigh bottle? I support a mother's decision either way as long as =20
she knows the disadvantages of both=2E If she feels "guilty" for choosing=20=
=20
to bottle feed , it's her guilt, not mine=2E I won't treat her badly if =20
she doesn't breastfeed=2E
Sometimes a little "pushiness" is a good thing=2E These moms are looking=20=
=20
to us for examples=2E We can't afford to take strong stances on things like=
=20
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Shaken Baby Syndrome and then wimp out on the =20=
=20
dangers of formula=2E Get real: "pushiness"sounds like a formula rep =20
talking=2E
Kathy Miller in D=2EC=2E
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:58:50 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Salon mag - Got milk
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I cant find the discussion refered to .
Some help please.
-Rob
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:15:47 -0900
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sulman Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more boys than girls?
Diane raises an interesting point, noting the many breastfeeding advocates
she knows who are mothers of boys. Is it possible that those of us with
boys (especially with all boys) look for a way to connect with other women
and a chance to relate to and value what is female about ourselves?
Perhaps the mothers of girls find that easily in connecting with the
mothers of other little girls in play groups and other mother-daughter
activities. But mothers of boys may not have a way to connect through
their children with what is feminine. Perhaps we gravitate toward
breastfeeding advocacy as one way to do that - to come together with other
women who value breastfeeding and mothering. (Speaking as the lone female
in a houseful of males.)
Another thought - Could it be that because boy babies are often larger in
size than girls, that labors are longer and more medication or epidurals or
forceps are used, ultimately causing more problems with breastfeeding?
Anne Altshuler, RN, MS, IBCLC, LLL Leader and mother of 3 teenage boys in
Madison, WI (Noting that one of my co-leaders is mother of 4 little girls)
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:27:24 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pushy
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I agree with Debbie's comments that sometimes a mom saying " I can't
because..." really means " I don't want to." Then you are called pushy for
trying to help.
Problem is knowing who is really saying what.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:56:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Andrea Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: rice cereal and soy oil
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> I can't get to the store and check this out but does anyone know about
this?
> <<Most rice cereal contains soy oil!! All the commercial rice cereal in
the
> US does at least... Gerber, Beachnut, etc.
I don't have any rice cereal on hand, but the mixed grain version from both
gerber and beech nut list soybean oil or soy oil-lecithin as an ingredient.
heinz oatmeal cereal does not list it. beech nut oatmeal says "contains
less than 0.1% soybean oil and tocopherols." (I have a freezer full of
cereal from WIC since my daughter declined solids for almost a year and by
that point was far more interested in table food than mush.)
Interesting thought. I have counseled mothers whose babies also rejected
baby cereals and usually have been intolerant of ABM as well. Never thought
to have them check the cereal label for soy or dairy. Duh.
Andrea Simmons, LLLL
St. Louis MO
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:14:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: toys r formula
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i like how they don't realize that giving out the formula is bad in any way,
we need to ask them if they would give out cigarettes and then, if someone
doesn't want them, they could "give them away or just toss them." after all,
some people choose to smoke anyway, don't they?
carol brussel IBCLC
doesn't like toys r us anyway in denver colorado
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:20:48 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps:
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Cheryl:
if as you say "know that nothing moves thru the tubing but air " then what
is the issue... if the bottles in the storage compartment are sealed
correctly there should be no leakage SO...
If we review the pumps on the floor - there is ONE with a hydrophobic
filter, its portable version has an internal motor, the "personal version"
if milk is not "sucked" into th etubing it could not get into the pump.. has
anyone opened one up after use to see what does happen? the competetors model
has a silicone filter to prevent "splash back"....
Maybe we should ask, at the appropriate workshop to see the insides of
these pumps.... after use!
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:39:23 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where did this originate?
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Does anyone remember what study, article, or whatever popularized the idea
tha babies get all the milk they need in the first 5-10 minutes of nursing?
TIA,
Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:54:27 EDT
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Rob:
knowing that it would be best to watch a feeding, i would try to sit this
baby up and see if that helps. the question is why does this baby pull off...
find that answer and you are all set. easy!
Patricia
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:12:47 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Roni Chastain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: thoughts on bf
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Hello Friends,
I am interested in collecting brief thoughts, feelings, passions, etc about
breastfeeding. Anyone interested in sharing this with me, please email to me
privately.
Thanks in advance.
Roni M. Chastain, RN, LCCE, FACCE
Long Island, New York
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Formula giveaways
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Dear Ms. Dornfeld:
I wrote to Toys R Us awhile ago and never received a reply. A colleague
passed along your name, and I was hoping you would consider my feedback.
Please let me know whom I can speak to at the highest levels of your
organization or pass this information along.
I have stopped shopping at Toys R Us and recommended that others do likewise
since I heard about this giveaway. I understand that you are defending it on
the basis that people don't *have* to take it. True enough. But most people,
in the interest of frugality, will take it just in case. Why does this
matter? Formula companies certainly know the answer, and that is why they
partner with companies such as yours: Women who receive formula samples are
less likely to breastfeed and breastfeed for shorter periods of time. This
is a bit of a no-brainer -- why else would the companies give away their
product?
What I *don't* understand is what's in it for Toys R Us. Are you receiving a
financial kickback from the company in question? Would you be giving out
cigarettes, too, since some people still choose to smoke? Well, no, you
might say, cigarettes are dangerous.
Unfortunately, infant formula is just as dangerous, killing an estimated
16,000 of the 4,000,000 babies born in the U.S. each year -- and I tell you
this as a mother who formula fed her first child, with no idea of the
dangers. I am now -- now that I know the dangers -- really angry with
businesses like yours that conspired with formula companies to be sure my
son was formula-fed. And -- by the way -- I'm one of the many women who
started out breastfeeding, ran into trouble, and gave those formula samples
that I had taken "just in case." :-(
You may find the article below interesting:
http://family.go.com/Features/family_1997_06/minn/minn67formula/
You may also wish to consult your legal department, and let them know that:
a) you are violating the World Health Organization Code on breastmilk
substitutes; and
b) you are exposing the company to liability issues by passing out a
dangerous product.
They may not view this "generous" giveaway as harmless when they view it in
this light. I personally will be the first to advise people to take legal
action when they're sabotaged by companies like yours. Toys R Us has no
business giving away infant formula without warning customers of its
dangers.
Sincerely,
Janice Berry
Westerville, OH
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:09:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Janice Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The American College of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology
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Go to
http://www.healthsquare.com/ana/chldrn.html#top and click on "Feeding
allergic infants and small children." Here's the text, with emphasis mine:
<<The best food for a newborn is mother's milk. However, some especially
sensitive babies will have allergic reactions to foods their mothers eat.
Eliminating these foods from the mother's diet may provide relief for the
child. **But, some babies will be allergic regardless of what their mothers
do. When this occurs, your physician may recommend a soy formula (for
infants with no soy allergies) or other hypoallergenic infant formulas.**>>
... yet under "Dairy product allergies," we're told:
<<Milk is another food that frequently causes allergies in adults, but it is
a **nutritionally important part of children's diets**. Milk should be
eliminated from a child's diet **only if you are sure the child is allergic
to it**. >>
Does anyone else find this somewhat ironic, not to mention factually shaky?
"For more information or to send comments contact ACAAI Executive Office
[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>"
Janice Berry, mom of Zack (11/30/92) and Gina (9/4/96)
Westerville, OH
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:07:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Ridiculous Breastfeeding Stories
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Lisa Marasco has asked for "ridiculous, stupid and/or dumb things said to
mothers about breastfeeding." I have one that is all of those things. One
of my clients went to the emergency room last winter complaining of achiness,
fever, and nausea. The doctor found out she was breastfeeding and told her,
"You will need to stop breastfeeding because having a fever will cause your
milk to curdle." My client, being a well-educated breastfeeding advocate,
said she was startled at her own reaction because, up to that point, she had
felt so horribly sick. But she looked him in the eye and broke out in
hysterical laughter! Probably the best medicine of all...
Cher Sealy, RN, BSN, IBCLC, LLLL
Montgomery, Alabama
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:30:42 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Paula M. R. Hart" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Drug Question
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Oh, Breast Gurus (snazzy new title?),
I am just beginning to train to be a peer counselor and do not know much
yet. I have a friend who has a 8 week old boy, who has given permission
for me to bring this question to y'all. Breastfeeding is going great. She
has a history of thyroid problems. Today's problem though is a small,
painful lump about 3 inches behind her ear. Her doctor said it could be
meningitis, and to call him if she gets an elevated temperature. Right now
though he put her on 5mg. Valium and Vicoprofen (no mg. listed on the
bottle) every eight hours. She called her pediatrician's office, whose
nurse said definitely not to nurse. She said she would pump and dump then.
Nurse encouraged her to give it up altogether because it has been EIGHT
WHOLE WEEKS already. My friend called me because she knew that was
ridiculous. So, what does she need to do to take these drugs? If she
can't nurse while taking them, is there anything else she can specifically
ask her doctor to prescribe?
Thanks a bunch!
Paula Hart
[log in to unmask]
Charleston, SC
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:49:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walrond Case
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I think the major point is that NO ONE was looking at this baby - for
whatever reasons.Teen age and/or first time moms should not be sent home
with no follow up. Follow up should be universal, not dependent on
bureaucracies, but an obligation that we as adults owe babies. Sincerely,
Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:42:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Walrond Case
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It was my understanding that dad saw baby and thought he was too thin and
gave mom formula, which she declined to use. I think things were very bad
between them and she couldn't hear what he was saying about baby's
condition. But, if he was so concerned about baby's condition he could
have called social service and reported it. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:58:16 -0400
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: YOKOSUKA , JAPAN
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Looking for lactation consultant and LLL in or near Yokosuka , Japan for a
client of mine that will be moving there in July.
thanks,
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:57:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>
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Well if it is meningitis she'll get so sick it won't really matter. Do you
think he may have meant mastoiditis? Of course valium and vicoprofen do a
lot for mastoiditis too (ha)............vioprofen is probably artificial
codeine and Ibuprofen. Valium is also of concern, maybe something else can
be used ........duh. Sincerely, Pat in SNJ
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:34:07 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Draper <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sharing Pumps
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Dear all,
I know this has been discussed before and I think I have responded
previously.At hospitals in Melbourne, Australia, our mums regularly "share"
pump sets. The sets are cleaned after use by a) rinsing in cold water b)
washing thoroughly in hot soapy water (normal dishwashing detergent) c)
rinsing in clean water d) sterilising - either steam steriliser (A****) or
chemical (M*****) e) stored in refridgerator for up to 24 hours (when if
not used, are resterilised). We had no problems with this system.
Roslyn Draper RM IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:58:44 -0400
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lists down on Saturday
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Hi folks. Received this from our benefactors today.
This Saturday morning, 05/29/99, starting at approximately 7:00 AM EST L-
Soft will be replacing the PEACH server with a new model. The transition
should take approximately 6 hours. We apologize for any inconvenience.
Just to let you all know.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:22:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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I was on another list serve for NICU nursing since I wanted to be more aware
of NICU issues. I do LC work for our 12 bed NICU. When I posted to that list
regarding Breastfeeding the preemie and advocating strongly for these moms to
BF I was percieved by many on that list as pushy(probably as more than
pushy). I was basically talking about informed consent and educating
regarding the difference betwen breastmilk and ABM and then encouraging the
mom to at least commit to expresing EBM as a start even if she didn't think
she wanted to "breast" feed.
When the discussion got heated it took me by surprise at how I was looked
upon. It felt like the same feeling I get when I know I am not always a
welcome person in the NICU (depending on who is staff that day).
Interesting how the NICU staff many times feel like we are too pushy and the
majority of the mothers that I have worked with felt totally thankful for the
support.
Jane Ciaramella
No longer a participant on the NICU listserve-there is enough hostility in a
days work, without having to endure it on the web as well!
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Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:40:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Birt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Babies in recovery room after csections
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I am proposing a policy at our hospital that will allow the baby to stay
with the mom in the recovery room after a csection with epidural/spinal
anesthesia. Does anyone do this currently in their facility and if so,
is it working well? We sometimes have OB/GYN recovery in the same area
and some staff are concerned the OB couplet will "bother" the
gyn pts with hysterectomies,etc. I am trying to come up with a plan
that will put the OB pt in a recovery room in L&D instead of in the GYN
area. I want the baby to be assessed in the OR then transfer in moms
arms to recovery. After recovery phase over in 1hr, the baby will go to
nsy with dad or significant other for them to bathe then go back to mom
for skin to skin warming. What do you think?
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 02:48:47 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jon Ahrendsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Walrond Case
Comments: To: Patrica Young <[log in to unmask]>,
"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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A thought that just came to me today was this: If this 19
year old was on
welfare, who paid for the breast-reduction surgery? I
realize this can be a valid surgery in some cases. But I
also wonder if at the time she had the surgery did they
tell her this would affect her ability to breastfeed? (if
not she may have valid grounds for a malpractice suit, as
this lack of knowledge as contributed to her guilty
verdict)
Also was her breast reduction surgery paid for with public
funds? In which case perhaps there should be some
additional reauthorization requirements before this
procedure is done. "e.g. Under 21 and never been pregnant?
Public funding is not an option for you now." If it was
not paid for with public funds, then where does a welfare
mother come up with the cash to pay for a breast reduction?
I don't mean to be uncaring in this terrible tragedy.
Obviously this mother was not served well in multiple ways
by her medical community, but these are some other factors
that I think need to be addressed when looking
comprehensively at the entire situation.
Jon
P.S. I see my newborns at 1 wk, 2 wks, 4 wks, 6 wks
(socially when the mom comes in for her post partum check,
as they often bring the baby along), and 8 wks. And I see
them regardless of wether they have a card yet or not.
As Dave Marinaccio says in All I Really Need to Know I
Learned from Watching Star Trek , "People are more
important than rules." I might suggest in this case his
quote be modified to "People (including babies) are more
important than rules."
Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP
& Becky
parents of Andrea, Elizabeth and Karl
Clarion, Iowa
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:06:13 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pushy
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Pushiness came up at a presentation I was at last week. One of our local
paeds - a very nice young man (makes you feel old when the paeds look like
they culd be your son....) with an interest in breastfeeding was telling us
how they care for the very tiny pre-terms - 24-plus weekers on.
'We strongly encourage the mothers to supply EBM from the start,' he said.
We wanted to know what they say....
Well, the routine is to see the mum and dad while she is in labour, and
prepare them a little for the next few months, pointing out that it might
be a long haul for them and for baby. They tell them it can make a real
difference to the baby's health and *chances of survival* if she gives her
breast milk. She will be giving her baby something unique and protective
that no one can match, and their experience is that babies who have breast
milk are far less likely to have problems, and far more likely to be
healthy long-term.
Yep, as honest and as straightforward as that. He is very, very pushy you
could say, especially as these mothers are actually less likely than any
other group to have made up their minds to breastfeed.
The vast majority of pre-term mums give EBM, he says, at least for a time,
and many go on for longer - though they often give up when it comes to
taking the baby home, or when the baby actually starts to breastfeed. The
pressure, he says, comes off them, then - which you might argue is a shame.
But of course it is no use being this 'pushy' if you can't follow through
with support - plenty of pumps, supportive and knowledgable staff, privacy
to express, constant encouragement and praise.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:10:16 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Babies in recovery room after csections
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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> After recovery phase over in 1hr, the baby will go to
>nsy with dad or significant other for them to bathe then go back to mom
>for skin to skin warming. What do you think?
Well, here mothers and babies are not separated at all (unless there is a
medical reason). They don't get bathed either - that happens at any time in
the first few days, maybe after discharge.
Why bath the baby? If there is a lot of blood, you can wipe it off
straight away after the birth, but why is bathing considered necessary?
If it ain't dirty, don't wash it! : )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:31:48 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more boys than girls?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
Just from personal experience, I have to say that I haven't noticed a
correlation between gender and breastfeeding difficulties. I seem to be
in a minority, but then I am not an LC.
Birth order, however, is very significant I think (pretty obviously). My
personal experience is that both my girls were utter *nightmares* to
nurse, but my son is a dream in comparison.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:32:04 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mother of CMV baby
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
[Rant warning]
I have some sad news regarding the mother of the Congenital CMV baby,
who has multiple handicaps, that I have been supporting.
The baby's as well as can be expected, but the mother has had to give up
breastfeeding. She slipped a disk and was in hospital for a week on
strong pain meds, seperated from her baby. She had no support whatsoever
- not even a breastpump and her milk has dried up. In hospital, she
suffered mastitis, surprise surprise, and they put her on strong
antibiotics :-( I am so angry, I am spitting feathers.
Anyway, not being one to be easily defeated, she is attempting to
relactate by pumping. The baby is hopelessly nipple-confused and
"doesn't know what to do at the breast". If you've been following this
saga, you will know that the baby's suck has never been good, due to her
neurological impairment. The mother has a hospital grade pump, but so
far has only been able to pump 1oz per day. She has attempted
relactation before, so I know she is informed about the "how tos". I
have encouraged her to continue offering the baby the breast, but she
doesn't seem to have much hope. I told her Americans call it "nursing"
and to think of it in those terms, rather than worrying about feeding,
per se.
The baby did receive 4 months of breastfeeding, with a little formula,
and she is still receiving what little drops the mother can obtain, so I
encouraged the mother to look upon this as a success, but I know she is
pretty devastated.
Getting a baby like this to breastfeed was never going to be easy
(premature, cerebal palsied, GER, epileptic, neurologically impaired)
but I really feel that is a mother who is *that* dedicated cannot
succeed, and receives no support whatsoever from the medical community,
who can? Forgive me for saying so, Lactdocs, but are the majority of
doctors totally oblivious to it's importance? Do they walk around with
their eyes shut to all the evidence and research that shows BFing is
dreadfully important? Is it too much even to ask them to give drugs
compatible with nursing and make sure a breastfeeding mother in hospital
has access to a pump *and* her baby? Can it really be so hard?
I don't know. I feel like chucking the towel in. After all "we were all
formula fed and we turned out fine" (keep saying it, if you say a lie
often enough, people will believe it).
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:16:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: NNF - Breast Feeding is Still Best
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Thought some of you may be interested in this nutrition e mail that I
receive! ;-) I am going to write them and tell them I am happy about them
sending out BF info!
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:56 PM
Subject: NNF - Breast Feeding is Still Best
> May 26, 1999
> NUTRITION NEWS FOCUS
> "Nutrition news is important. We help you understand it!"
>
> Today's Topic: Breast Feeding is Still Best
>
> Nutrition educators have long said that breast feeding of infants is
> superior to formula feeding for a variety of reasons, including
> better health for the babies. The April 1999 issue of the Journal of
> the Ambulatory Pediatric Society presents a study that puts this
> advantage into a dollar figure.
>
> Two thousand healthy newborns in Scotland and Arizona were studied
> for three illnesses common in babies: ear infections, respiratory
> infections and diarrhea. The 1,000 children who were never breast
> fed experienced 2,000 extra office visits, 200 more days of
> hospitalization and 600 more prescriptions for these three
> conditions. The additional health care costs in the first year of
> life ranged from $330 to $475 per infant.
>
> HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: Better health for babies is only one
> reason that nursing is better than formula feeding. While exclusive
> breast feeding is better, some nursing is better than none. Early
> on, antibodies are transferred in milk from the mother to the child
> before the baby's system is producing them.
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> Please recommend Nutrition News Focus to your family and friends.
> If you like, point your browser to
> http://www.nutritionnewsfocus.com/cgi-bin/birdcast.cgi
> where you'll find an easy recommendation form.
>
> DISCLAIMER: The information in Nutrition News Focus is intended
> only to help you understand the Nutrition News. We do not recommend
> any treatment, food or supplement. It is not intended to replace
> the advice of a physician. If you read something in this newsletter
> that in any way contradicts what your physician tells you, TAKE YOUR
> PHYSICIAN'S ADVICE, NOT OURS.
>
> Copyright 1999 Nutrition News Focus Inc.
>
> ********************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:34:28 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan & Moshe Srebrnik <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "brain formulas"
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I'm coming out of "lurking" to voice my concern about aggressive formula
companies pushing toddler milks with all kinds of additives which they
claim are "essential for brain development." I thought the "Mama's
little genius" campaigns were only in Israel until I started seeing then
on our international cable t.v. stations including Star-Asia which is a
gigantic
network. I can imagine the impact these commericals could have on
low-income mothers from countries like India...
Really disgusted...
Susan Nachman-Srebrnik, IBCLC
Ranana, Israel
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 06:50:27 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jerry and Mary Grace Lanese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: nomail
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NOMAIL
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:09:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tongue thrusting
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What exactly is tongue thrusting?
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:40:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Professional Hostility
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I think that there are a lot of reasons for people's hostility, and if this
is the case on the NICU listserv, it is sad, though not unexpected.
When people are aggressive, it is usually because they are feeling
defensive. I have given a lot of thought to this issue. The defense
mechanism comes into play when are uncomfortable with something we are
doing, thinking, saying,..when it does not jibe with what we know to be the
truth...also when we perceive that we are being attacked. There is an inner
conflict.
In many settings, and in some NICUs, there are often practices used that are
not current or research based with regard to breastfeeding...I believe. I
knew of one nurse who wanted to do LC work in a NICU in another state. She
was told that her ideas were good on how to get baby to breast, etc, but
that there were several nurses there who had worked there for 20 years, and
well, "you know...they have their own ideas...ha ha ha." wink, nod, look
the other way.....humor the staff who are practicing in outdated ways with
regard to breastfeeding.
This idea of winking, nodding and looking the other way as breastfeeding is
laid down at the altar of ignorance would not be a defendable position if
the same approach were used in, say, a diabetic clinic. Can one imagine
winking and smiling at a professional who inSISTed on using outdated
practice with regard to juvenile diabetes teaching? Well, it might hurt the
diabetic who needs the teaching, or it might not help them to live to the
fullest level of their existence, but , *wink, nudge* you KNOW how it is, we
wouldn't want to get behind the latest teaching and require the staff to all
be up to date, because that would offend those who have been using those
outdated techniques, and no one wants to go THERE, down that road. To heck
with the diabetic who needs the help. Right? Wrong!
Is this position defendable, professionally?
In what other discipline would we allow ourselves or other professionals to
use outdated information or techniques to help our clients, in the name of
protecting our colleagues who do not wish to learn and change their practice?
Sigh.
Can you tell that this is one of my hot button issues?
I have also seen many folks demand for research based practice before they
change practice, protocols, etc. These are the same people who have NO
evidence to back up their own practice, but who stubbornly refuse to change
their own practice, to update, etc. The reason for this, I think, is that
breastfeeding is a singular issue. It is a woman's issue that strikes deep
to the bone.
When we support another mother in a mothering practice as important as
breastfeeding, we are forced, either consciously or unconsciously, to
examine our own parenting, our own mothering, and our own beliefs. This
examination is painful for some, and hence the professional stubborness and
pain when we might have to admit that what we might have done with our
families, our babies, etc, might not have been the best choices...
Off the soapbox.
Kathleen
I was on another list serve for NICU nursing since I wanted to be more aware
of NICU issues. I do LC work for our 12 bed NICU. When I posted to that list
regarding Breastfeeding the preemie and advocating strongly for these moms to
BF I was percieved by many on that list as pushy(probably as more than
pushy). I was basically talking about informed consent and educating
regarding the difference betwen breastmilk and ABM and then encouraging the
mom to at least commit to expresing EBM as a start even if she didn't think
she wanted to "breast" feed.
When the discussion got heated it took me by surprise at how I was looked
upon. It felt like the same feeling I get when I know I am not always a
welcome person in the NICU (depending on who is staff that day).
Interesting how the NICU staff many times feel like we are too pushy and the
majority of the mothers that I have worked with felt totally thankful for the
support.
Jane Ciaramella
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:57:48 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Andrea Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Professional Hostility
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I like your analogy comparing BF practice with diabetic teaching, Kathleen
(snipped for space).
>When we support another mother in a mothering practice as important as
>breastfeeding, we are forced, either consciously or unconsciously, to
>examine our own parenting, our own mothering, and our own beliefs. This
>examination is painful for some, and hence the professional stubborness and
>pain when we might have to admit that what we might have done with our
>families, our babies, etc, might not have been the best choices...
I wish people would make the same analogy with the material above and say,
other food choices. For example, people used to eat cholesterol-ambush
breakfasts of steak and eggs, yet I don't think anyone feels any particular
remorse that this *used* to happen, now that they are eating shredded wheat
with skim milk. They simply accept that, now, they know better.
Andrea
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:04:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sore nipples / baby on and off
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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I saw a mom with a similar problem yesterday. Five week old baby, pulls
back frequently. Both nipples are bruised. I observed that mom had an
extremely active letdown...milk just poured out of both breasts. The baby
would pull back and "chomp" on the nipple to stop the flow. There were no
other problems...no tongue tie, no palate abnormality. Mom was an
experienced breastfeeder.
Does the mom you are speaking of have too much milk? Is her letdown
powerful? Is baby trying to cope with too much milk?
I told my client to use the overactive letdown stuff...pump a little off
before feeding, keep baby above the breast...only one side per feed. And to
be very firm about taking baby off the minute she starts to pull back.
Susan
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:19:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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This issue of why the PNS cannot be shared has, as far as I know, nothing
to do with spillage into the storage compartment. Our medela rep. says it
is because there is no filter to protect the motor from contamination.
Now, if such a filter is available for the Classic, why not for the PNS?
Both have internal motors. I hypothesize that this is a marketing decision.
The company doesn't want these pumps shared because that would decrease
revenue. I understand that...but, at the same time wonder why a filter
cannot be sold to make the PNS share-able.
By the way, I am a big promoter of this company's products. I have nothing
against them and think they have good products. Just think we have a right
to question this...if we are all dealing with it so regularly.
Susan
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:25:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: potential head injury
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I think the real issue in keeping babies from sleeping after a head injury
is one related to unobserved, prolonged sleep. There is no way to keep a
baby from napping at the breast. When I was an ER nurse, we told moms to
wake the baby every hour or so and look at pupils to make sure they were
the same size and reactive to light. If a mom is holding a baby, she will
know if that child stops breathing and if there is a seizure.
I would strongly discourage letting baby sleep alone and unobserved after a
head injury...and this goes for older kids too.
Susan Keith-Hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:38:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tongue thrusting
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Rob asks "What is tongue thrusting?"
I have seen this pattern in Down's babies...it is part of their congenital
pattern. The tongue, instead of having a nice peristaltic movement like it
should, pushes the breast (and anything else) out of the mouth. For trisomy
21, it is something inborn that has to be dealt with through PT/OT.
Now, here is where the problem lies: sometimes it occurs iatrogenically in
normal babies because of how they are fed. When preemies are "force fed"
with a red nipple, for instance. They are trying to protect their airways.
What results is a pattern that will not be conducive to breastfeeding.
I really wish we could get past seeing "all nipple feeds" as the marker of
when a baby is doing well and see normal oral motor patterns as the marker
of infant health.
Susan keith-Hergert RN, MS, CPN, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:41:28 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Changing practice with research
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I have tremendous sympathy for Kathleen Bruce's frustration when she wrote:
<< I have also seen many folks demand for research based practice before they
change practice, protocols, etc. These are the same people who have NO
evidence to back up their own practice, but who stubbornly refuse to change
their own practice, to update, etc. The reason for this, I think, is that
breastfeeding is a singular issue. It is a woman's issue that strikes deep
to the bone. >>
Surely that is one reason.
But it is also true that for most humans, if you don't have a specific -- in
this case, research-driven -- reason for how you should be doing something,
intuition tells us to keep doing it the way it has always been done.
And what qualifies for each of us as "always been done" depends on what you
have seen.
Many of us on this list frequently post comments like "the species has been
doing this for thousands of years, and we shouldn't change unless we have a
good reason."
But for professionals like those NICU nurses who have been taking care of
babies the same way for 20 years, their practice feels -- I'm not saying IS,
but to them it FEELS -- like that kind of default.
And again, we often post things like "Moms shouldn't accept authority
statements that clash with their mothering intuition unless they are solidly
supported (say, by the doc)."
But these nurses are in the same position as that mom -- they have built up
human intuition on a topic, and we are coming with authority statements to
challenge it -- and we are often not, in their view, a very important
authority, much less one to challenge their professional intuition!
I don't think we have to even reach macro-philosophical issues to explain the
slowness of progress. People just don't change lightly, and I don't think we
really want them to. They need their minds persuaded, and they need their
intuitions persuaded -- in either order.
My hat is off to the many on this list who are making a difference in
hospital environments (Hello Nancy Wight! Hello Esther Grunis! Hello, many
others!).
Your example and consistency and willingness to teach, one mom and baby and
nurse and doc at a time, is what will bring change -- indeed, brings change
every day.
Your fan, Elisheva Urbas
easy for me to be so patient -- I'm not working in a NICU! The last time I
was actually in a hospital I was tearing out my hair...
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:50:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mandy O'Reilly RN Rm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Babies in recovery room
Babies is recovery room is an excellent idea. Dad should be there too. The
only thing you need to watch out for that the recovery room is not cold.
(They somehow often are) All it takes is one cold baby cold baby developing
respiratory distress and you loose your position.
Regards
Mandy O'Reilly RnRm
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:22:20 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: references on prolactin increase with touch
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Oh wise ones...several ILCA conferences ago, I remember hearing the statement
that mother-infant contact increases maternal prolactin levels, and kangaroo
care was therefore recommended in ill and preterm infants even if the infants
could not breastfeed. I cannot put my finger on the references at this
moment. Does anyone else recall this info??
Kathy Parkes, RN, IBCLC
The Lactation Connection (TLC)
www.tlc4moms.com
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:37:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Waldrund case
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At 08:41 AM 5/26/99 -0400, Jon Ahrendsen MD ABFP wrote:
>A thought that just came to me today was this: If this 19
>year old was on
>welfare, who paid for the breast-reduction surgery?
I heard it was a medically necessary one, not just asthetic and would then
be covered by medicaid.
>But I
>also wonder if at the time she had the surgery did they
>tell her this would affect her ability to breastfeed?
She says no, they did not. Note, neither did any of the medical
professionals who would have seen it in her chart.
>(if
>not she may have valid grounds for a malpractice suit, as
>this lack of knowledge as contributed to her guilty
>verdict)
I hate sue happy mentality but yeah this is one I would go for. Couldn't
they technically get something besides malpractice, like neglect or
something because their lack of information given contributed to this
child's death?
>P.S. I see my newborns at 1 wk, 2 wks, 4 wks, 6 wks
>(socially when the mom comes in for her post partum check,
>as they often bring the baby along), and 8 wks. And I see
>them regardless of wether they have a card yet or not.
You sir, are a *real* doctor.
-Wendey (studying LC in Montreal)
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:29:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: tongue thrusting
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Rob:
I am sure that many willbe able to explain this more eloquently BUT ... the
tongue bunches and pushes forward.
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:47:06 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Andrea Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Babies in recovery room after csections
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Well, I don't work in a hospital so I can't be of any reral help, but I have
to say that I am very surprised by some of the hospital protocols some of
you are reporting. Both of my children were born by cesarean. Both times I
labored and recovered in the same private room. I was never separated from
my babies, and my daughter even had to be resucitated at birth. We weren't
allowed to nurse *immediately* after birth, but my husband and my mother
held them until I returned to the room after surgery, at which time we
nursed to our hearts' content. They were measured and bathed right there in
front of us. The only time either of them saw the inside of the nursery was
when I took a shower and nobody was visiting to care for them. I was
rehospitalized after my son's birth and he came right along with me and they
set up camp for him in my room and provided a breast pump and instruction
and support and milk storage for the night-time (from 11-6) when he did have
to go home with my husband (All right, this could have been improved!) Not
to mention no hassles for giving him my milk despite IV antibiotics and pain
meds. (Thank my wise ped. for that!).
These were two different hospitals in my large metropolitan area. Both do
have LC's on staff (and lovely people they are too!), but otherwise I would
never have considered either hospital particularly "radical" in their
policies towards birth or supporting and encouraging breastfeeding. It has
been very eye-opening to hear the reports here.
Sincerely,
Andrea Simmons, LLLL
St. Louis MO
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:21:56 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The American College of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology
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<<**But, some babies will be allergic regardless of what their
mothers
do. When this occurs, your physician may recommend a soy formula
(for
infants with no soy allergies) or other hypoallergenic infant
formulas.**>>>>
No matter what? Why? Some mystical allergen too mysterious to uncover and
deal with? How convenient! I just love it when people chalk up
breastfeeding problems to some mystical unprovable problem. (NOT!) Makes
it soooo easy to throw up one's hands and say, "Oh well - I tried. I WANTED
to breastfeed. Pass the formula, please."
<<<<Milk is another food that frequently causes allergies in adults,
but it is
a **nutritionally important part of children's diets**. >>
Tell that to my near-vegan nearly-5-year-old, who's allergy to milk & most
meats is very serious indeed. Kid has never had milk in his life, and is
darn healthy, thank you very much. There ARE other ways of providing
children with the nutrients in milk.
<<Does anyone else find this somewhat ironic, not to mention
factually shaky?>>
It's very ironic & shaky; you're right. If a child's problem truly is an
allergy to something in mom's diet, then enough investigation, trial, &
error will eventually uncover the culprit/s. Either he's allergic (or
sensitive, or intolerant - pick your favorite word) to something or things
in mom's diet or he's not. Period. Sometimes it's a combination of things,
and often families will give up before finding the right combination of
allergens to eliminate. I know that if my ultra-allergic youngest hadn't
been my third child (as opposed to being my first born), I probably would
have quit nursing him. It was just so difficult, frustrating - and scary.
The boy was gaining 12 ounces per month, for no breastfeeding management
reason that we could determine. Had I not had the benefit of years of
beautiful pleasant breastfeeding experiences to motivate me, and years as a
LLL Leader to teach me prior to Joshua being born, I could not have
persevered the 8 months that it took to uncover what his other-than-dairy
allergens were.
Once I did, he caught up on ALL of his needed weight gain in a matter of a
few weeks. He's been the healthiest of children ever since. But prior to
that, we ran the gamut of experiences, from testing him for cystic fibrosis
to constant admonitions from others that I wasn't making enough milk. In
hindsight I regret not thinking of eliminating beef/pork/chicken much much
sooner. The way I see it now (and often explain it, to others), is that he
doesn't tolerate any part of any cow in any form. Same goes for pigs.
Chicken I believe he might tolerate, were he willing to try it, since he
tolerates anything I bake with eggs. But he won't eat either, and I'm not
about to ask him to.
This statement shows where this organization feels is the real value.
Substituting soy formula for breastmilk can be considered acceptable and
even necessary (in their view) under certain circumstances. But eliminating
milk from a child's diet? Unthinkable!
AAARRRRRGGGGG........
Regina Roig Lane BS IBCLC for Miami-Dade County WIC and mother of one very
healthy very allergic dairy-free vegetarian
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:39:37 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: new spin on sharing pumps
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On the topic of.......
Why are we trying to find ways for mothers to share what is and is designed
to be a personal use item? Why do LCs and others in this field think this is
a good thing to do?
The PNS is not a lawn mower, that can or should be passed around amongst
friends or neighbors. We as a profession, err, when we try to facilitate
women to do so with this product by requesting filters etc.
The price of this pump is not unreasonable for the product and use it is
designed for. We as professionals should have enough respect for the tools
of our profession to not contramand manufacturers and FDA regs on them--or we
should not sell or recommend these products if we feel otherwise.
How about, the fact that when a woman passes this pump along--the 2nd or
subsequent user not knowing how the pump felt and performed when new is
unable to determine if the pump is performing as it should, i.e. as a new one
would. Subsequently, the mother may go along with a poorly working pump not
knowing, and perceive it as a problem with her milk supply and follow down
same path we see with other lesser quality pumps.
Marge Collier
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:55:18 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Stats on infant mortality in the US attributable to artificial
feeding
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I am writing an article for a national magazine on the verifiable morbidity
and mortality stats attributable to artificial feeding in the US. This is
going to be a very special piece which will expose a wide new audience to
information on the risks of routine bottle-feeding for the very first time.
I want it to be hard-hitting and I want to get as many stats and studies as I
can on infant mortality as it relates to infant formula. The focus of the
piece is not "breast is best" but instead that "bottle-feeding is worse".
I have searched the archives, but to make sure that I don't miss anything on
this topic, if you are aware of any research or study on total infant
mortality stats and artificial feeding in the US, please e-mail me privately.
Thanks--
Katie Allison Granju
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:57:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: glenn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: job proposal for hospital LC needed
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AT LAST! PUT OUT THE FLAGS!
I just got a call from the LC at our local regional hospital, level 3 NICU,
1350 births a year, which has decided that they need a full-time (40hr/wk)
Lactation Consultant. I am sure you are all sick of hearing me complain that
they use her for general nursing duties and she sees bf moms in her *spare
time.*
Of course, they want her proposal in *yesterday*, and she is scrambling
around. Can anyone out there help? I promised I would get back to her asap.
TIA
Norma Ritter, IBCLC
in private practice in Big Flats NY
*Breastfeeding Matters* [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:41:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: interesting changes ...
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Elisheva said....
"But it is also true that for most humans, if you don't have a specific -- in
this case, research-driven -- reason for how you should be doing something,
intuition tells us to keep doing it the way it has always been done."
I agree with you Elisheva....and the thing is that in the span of time, of
millenium, the change from breastfeeding to bottlefeeding/formula feeding
has occurred relatively quickly, if you look at the timeline of human
existence and experience.
If we are looking at doing things that work consistently, breastfeeding is
the obvious choice, in my mind. Not arguing..just reflecting.
It is amazing to me how eager mothers now are to put layers between
themselves and the reality of childbirth and childrearing...and so sad.
McBirth. McBreastfeeding...Quick and dirty.
Sick, coming down with a cold, and letting my true despondency come out.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:28:27 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary and Mike Ryngaert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pushy
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"When I posted to that list
>regarding Breastfeeding the preemie and advocating strongly for these moms
to
>BF I was percieved by many on that list as pushy"(probably as more than
>pushy).
Jane:
Last year I attended a local cont. ed program. One of the topics was
breastfeeding in the NICU, and one particular hospital's success with
RESEARCH-BASED care. I will try to find my notes and send them on to you,
but I think their premise is of value to the group. The presenter, who was
the head nurse of that unit, explained that they prescribe breastmilk for
their patients. They tell them "Your baby will need a ventilator to breathe
and your breastmilk to grow and thrive." She went on to talk about
lactoengineering and the empowerment these mothers perceived as they
contributed so well to their baby's recovery.
I don't know much about NICUs and never expected to enjoy this presentation,
but let me tell you, I was fascinated! May I suggest that you keep sending
your message to that list? Someone in lurking may be listening!
Mary Ryngaert, ARNP, MSN
in hot, hot, sticky Gainesville, FL
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:53:06 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: boys vs girls ? impact of circumcision
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Hi all,
In a message dated 5/25/99 4:19:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Suan Wittner
wrote:
<< I think this discussion is pointing out how "studies" can skew in many
directions, depending on the specific data analyzed. (as we have seen so
often in bf or sids) That is why it can be so important to note what subjects
and their specific dynamics are included. <snip>
Since non-ritual circumcision is usually done earlier, bf may be less well
established anyway, and any "events" are looked at as possible culprits. >>
In a study conducted at Rochester (NY) General Hospital on using
acetominophen to relieve pain in neonatal circumsion, the feeding behavior of
the babies was noted both before and after the procedure. The two feedings
prior to the circumcision were used to judge how well the infant was feeding.
In breastfed infants, if the baby fed poorly at either of the 2 feedings
prior to the procedure, then breastfeeding behavior was considered
unsatisfactory. The baby had to breastfeed well at *both* feedings prior to
the circumcision for the feeding to be judged satisfactory. It is standard
protocol at the hospital for nurses to record the breastfeeding behavior of
BF infants. For artificially fed babies, formula intake for the two feeds
prior to the circumcision was averaged. All the infants in the study fed well
preoperatively.
Postoperative feeding behavior was also judged by two feedings. Feeding
behavior was judged to have deteriorated in breastfed babies if the baby fed
poorly in two feeds, refused to breastfeed, or required formula
supplementation ( baby symptomatic with blood glucose <50 or the mom chose to
feed ABM). In formula fed babies, feeding was considered to have deteriorated
if the baby took less than 50% of the preoperative volume of formula.
In the breastfed babies, 18% of the group receiving acetominophen and 37% of
those receivng a placebo fed poorly postoperatively. Of the formula fed
babes, 33% of those who got acetominophen fed poorly and 15% of those who
received a placebo fed poorly. The differences between the acetomnophen and
placebo groups was not statisically significant in either the breastfed or
formula fed babies.
The authors note in the discussion "Thus the observed deterioration in the
ability to breastfeed may potentially contribute to breastfeeding failure.
Furhermore some neonates in this study requires formula supplementation
because of maternal frustration with attempts at breastfeeding, or because
the neonate was judged unable to breastfeed postoperatively. This finding is
disconcerting because early formula supplementation is associated with
decreased breastfeeding duration"
Warmly,
Carol Kelley LLLL
Taylors SC USA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Reference:
Howard CR, Howard FM and Weitzman ML. Acetominophen analgesia in neonatal
circumcision: the effect on pain. Pediatrics 1994 93(4):641-646
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:57:00 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NNF Breastfeeding is still best
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cindy,
>Thought some of you may be interested in this nutrition e mail that I
>receive! ;-) I am going to write them and tell them I am happy about them
>sending out BF info!
Wonderful to read. However, I did think their disclaimer was a little
ironic, in view of what we know of *some* of the physicians, some of us
have had dealings with.
>> DISCLAIMER:
{snip}
>If you read something in this newsletter
>> that in any way contradicts what your physician tells you, TAKE YOUR
>> PHYSICIAN'S ADVICE, NOT OURS.
--
Anna H. (Mummy to Emma, 17-1-95, Alice, 11-9-96, Samuel, 25-4-98)
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:16:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dianne Kemp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ringworm??????/
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I just received a voice mail from a new client - she asked about ringworm =
- states that her physician diagnosed it on her and her baby (on her =
breasts). I am trying to call her back, obviously, for more details, but =
I wonder if anyone have experience with this?
Dianne Kemp BA, RN, IBCLC
Port Huron, Michigan
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:04:25 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Liz Brooks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tongue thrusting
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The Breastfeeding Answer Book at p. 66 gives a good description of tongue
thrust. Baby's tongue pushes at the end of mom's nipple (even to the
point of pushing breast tissue out of its mouth), rather than cupping the
underside of the nipple with its tongue. Mom may have sore nipples; baby
may thrust at the start of a feed; baby may thrust after initial let-down.
Baby may thrust because of nipple confusion; baby may thrust because s/he
was a tongue or thumb sucker in utero. BAB cites:
Lawrence, R. Breastfeeding: A Guide for the Medical Proessional, 4th ed.
St. Louis: Mosby, 1994, pp 236-37.
Maher, S. An Overview of Solutions to Breastfeeding and Sucking Problems.
Schaumburg, IL. LLLI, 1988. Pub. No. 67, p. 12.
Marmet, C and Shell, E. Lactation Forms: A Guide to Lactation Consultant
Charting. Encino, CA: Lactation Institute Pubs., 1993, pp. 4-17.
Marmet, C. and Shell, E. Training neonates to suck correctly. MCN 1984;
9:401-07.
===
Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:26:30 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Another "bone" for y'all to chew on!
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Hi all,
An LC friend that's not on Lactnet asked me to pass on to you the following
article. It appears in First for Women magazine, the 6/21/99 issue now on
the newstands. There's an "Ask the Doctor" column (actually called "Doctor
on Call") writtent by Dr. Linda Marraccini, who is billed as being the first
female chairperson of the Florida Chapter of the Am. Acad. of Family
Physicians.
Here's the question & her answer:
Q: I had a baby four months ago, and I can't breast-feed (sic) because I
have inverted nipples. I'm very upset because I know that breast miulk is
best for infants. My husband suggested that we purchase breast milk, but I
dont like the idea of giving my baby someone else's milk. Is banked breast
milk safe?
A: I do agree that breast milk is the best food for infants, but you don't
need to feel bad if you can't breast-feed (sic). commercial infant formulas
are designed to have the same nutritional content as mothers' milk, and
bottle-fed babies grow up perfectly healthy. I don't like the idea of
purchasing someone else's breast milk because I'm not sure it can be tested
for potentially harmful germs.
Everyone start your typing fingers (when you're doing screaming "ARRGGHH")...
their email address [log in to unmask] They say "be sure to include your
name, address, and daytime phone when writing".
Back to banging my head on the wall.......
Carol Schlef, RNC, MSW, IBCLC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:38:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: interesting changes ...
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Oh dear, Kathleen Bruce -- cheer up! -- you are one of the ones making the
greatest difference in this!
I think that for many, many bf supporters, the global closeness of Lactnet is
a continuous daily reminder that the sliver of world history in which
artificial feeding is seen as the norm is even more limited in time than it
is in space. You, and KGA, and other people whose work make Lactnet
possible, are the ones who help 2000 of us get that reminder in our inbox
many (many, many! ) times a day.
Don't forget that even for formula feeding to get established in North
America took three generations -- if it takes a generation and a half to kick
it back out we are working fast.
Hope your cold goes away soon.
Elisheva Urbas
lay bf agitator in NYC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:30:51 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Lori C. Salisbury" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mom with impaired immunity
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Lactnetters,
I got a call yesterday from a mom breastfeeding her baby who is almost 6
months old. She states these past few months she has had several bouts of
sickness (colds, flu) lasting 2 - 3 weeks each. States she is usually a
very healthy person. States her husband is encouraging her to stop nursing
because he thinks the breastfeeding is "taking her immunities". I explored
other possible reasons for her being more sick, and she agreed that she has
been under several "life changes" recently. In the past year she has moved,
changed jobs, and had a baby, who is now in daycare while she works.
My general suggestions were for her to continue breastfeeding, and that the
more likely cause for her increase in illness is more likely due to her
stress factors/life changes, plus being exposed to the germs her daughter is
getting in daycare. She said that her daughter has had a couple colds and a
couple ear infections - states neither were bad. I emphasized that her
daughter likely would have had more illnesses and been sicker with the ones
she had if she wasn't breastfed.
I know that breastfeeding doesn't "take immunities" from the mother, but
that the breast manufactures them specifically for baby, but does anyone
know of any more specific research or information about mom's immunities,
etc. while breastfeeding? I told this mom I would ask you and she is
anxious for any more information about this. So far she is hanging in there
and breastfeeding nearly exclusively (small amounts of formula needed while
she works despite pumping 3 times during her work day), but any more
information would be appreciated. Please email me since I'm not up to date
on my posts. ([log in to unmask])
Thanks,
Lori Salisbury, RN, IBCLC
hospital based LC in Spokane WA
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:47:11 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jill Lund <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: T.V. Guide - USA
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Snipet on page 8 (May 29th issue)
17 yo pop star not wearing a bra hullabaloo, and "breast man" as a
caption under a picture of an actor, and Nestle mentioned in the paragraph
as pulling sponsorship from the pop star (pretty ironic).......
Now for the interesting part....next paragraph....I guess there is a
t.v. series called "Arliss" on HBO. "...looking for a very special woman to
play the commissioner of the WNBA (Women's Basketball). The actress had to
be in her early thirties to forties, and oh one more thing: ....the actress
must have had a baby in the past year and is currently breastfeeding.
Actress must be willing to breastfeed baby in a scene." (sounds
nice)
If anyone watches this show, please let us know how they handle it.
Jill Lund
St. Louis, Missouri
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:07:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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[log in to unmask]
"Q: I had a baby four months ago, and I can't breast-feed (sic) because I
have inverted nipples. I'm very upset because I know that breast miulk is
best for infants. My husband suggested that we purchase breast milk, but I
dont like the idea of giving my baby someone else's milk. Is banked breast
milk safe?
A: I do agree that breast milk is the best food for infants, but you don't
need to feel bad if you can't breast-feed (sic). commercial infant formulas
are designed to have the same nutritional content as mothers' milk, and
bottle-fed babies grow up perfectly healthy. I don't like the idea of
purchasing someone else's breast milk because I'm not sure it can be tested
for potentially harmful germs. "
Dear Dr. Marracinni,
I would like to comment on your response to the mother who wrote to you
regarding her breastfeeding situation with inverted nipples. If you refer
to the current recommendations of the AAP, they recommend banked human milk
as a suitable alternative to breastmilk, and this choice ranks high on the
list, above artificial baby milk. Of course banked human milk is tested and
safe, similar to blood products, and is much safer than artificial milk,
which carries with it the potential to cause increased illnesses. I refer
you to the piece of work entitled "A Fresh Look at the Risks of Artificial
Infant Feeding, Marsha Walker RN, IBCLC J Hum Lact 9(2), 1993." This piece
of work outlines the current evidence regarding hazards of infant formula.
Although formula is a tool that is useful in some situations, it should
never be recommended as an *equal* alternative with artificial baby milk,
and this view is strongly supported by the AAP statement, 1997, on
breastfeeding. The myth that breastfeeding/milk and formula are equal
alternatives is an idea that the formula companies try very hard to get
across to mothers, and health care professionals through the use of
strong-arm marketing tactics that flagrantly violate the WHO Code of
Marketing of Infant Formula.
I would suggest that you offer this mother information about relactation, or
about using an nursing supplementer to get her baby to breastfeed.
Relactation is perfectly possible, and may fit the needs of this mother who
obviously has regrets about not being able to breastfeed. Chances are good
that she did not breastfeed because she did not receive adequate support for
breastfeeding. Many mothers with inverted or flat nipples can breastfeed
just fine if they have someone helping them who believes that breastfeeding
is better than formula feeding, and who has the skill to assist. The
following article also comes to mind when we discuss the issue of providing
adequate and educated information and assistance to new breastfeeding
mother/baby couples....
"Professional ambivalence towards breastfeeding remains strong despite
abundant editorial and empirical articles defending breastfeeding which have
appeared in the literature during the past ten years." "Nurses' Attitudes
and Behaviors that Promote Breastfeeding" Patton, Beaman, Cszar, Lewinski,
JHL 6/96.
I welcome you to join LACTNET, a free listserv list for breastfeeding
professionals, and other health care professionals who currently work with
lactating mothers. If you are interested to join the 2500 of us who work in
the field, and who are keeping current on new information and techniques to
help mothers, we invite you to subscribe by sending email to
[log in to unmask]
with message reading
Subscribe Lactnet *your name and credentials*
We look forward to further dialogue.
Kind regards,
Kathleen B. Bruce BSN IBCLC'
3594 South Road
Williston Vermont 05495
802 879 8854
Listowner of LACTNET.
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:16:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Babies in recovery room after csections
Comments: To: Kathy Birt <[log in to unmask]>
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"I am trying to come up with a plan that will put the OB pt in a recovery
room in L&D instead of in the GYN area."
Whose nurses will be "recovering" her - OB or Recovery? Has an impact on
staffing patterns; if you're well-staffed on OB, that's great, because the
OB nurses will be able to help mom w/baby (with a little cross-training in
recovery monioring & techniques). If not, it puts a big stress on an
already-stretched unit, and the care of other pts. will be affected, whether
you "think" it will or not - we tried this at my hospital a few years ago, &
found it didn't work too well.
Better, though, than when the babies were sent/accompanied to the recovery
room, where the staff didn't really appreciate the whole idea & saw it as a
big nuisance to them. (Which, I gotta say, from their perspective it is!)
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:18:24 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: impact of circumcision
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Carol:
ALL THE INFANTS IN THE STUDY FED WELL PREOPERATIVELY... and still some %
had difficulties after... now what happens when the baby has NOT fed well
preoperatively!
Patricia
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:28:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: hormones to induce lactation
Mime-Version: 1.0
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A mother sent me this note, stating that this is her MD's protocol for
inducing lactation. Mother has a history of infertility.
"The hormones- Here's the protocol for induced lactation from a fertility
>MD, Randall Craig, in Chandler, AZ. Weeks 1-4, 10mg Reglan 3x day, 10mg
>provera 3x day, and 4 .05mg estradiol patches placed directly on breast,
>(plus the pumping). Week 5, same, but 4 doses of Reglan, and pumping to
>increase to 30 minutes 4xday. Week 6, same hormones, pumping goes to 5
>times for 30 minutes. Weeks 7-8 (and up to 10), drugs the same, 6x30
>minutes on the pump. When the baby arrives, pumping stops, and the baby
>with SNS is the "pump"."
What is your experience with these hormones? I have not heard of the
estrogen...but have heard of the provera...and the reglan. The pumping
seems like it is in sessions that are too lengthy. thoughts?
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:36:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "pushy" peds, preemies, & pumps
Comments: To: heather <[log in to unmask]>
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Heather, what a great thing for your young ped to say! This kind of straight
talk from a *doctor*, at a time when they are probably already good and
scared for themselves and their child, can make a HUGE difference. I saw it
when apparently there were a couple of new neonatologists at the tertiary
care unit in a near-by town where women at high-risk deliver, where the
nearest NICU is. Women I had worked with throughout their pregnancies at WIC
and who were bound and determined that BFing was *not* for them would come
back after these very premature deliveries looking for a breast pump,
because the doctor at the NICU told them that their babies needed their
milk! Straight, simple, no tap-dancing around about "benefits" and
"options", just "your baby needs your milk now". What is the mom going to
say - "no, I just don't feel like expressing my milk, even though it may
mean my baby's survival"?!
And you know, of all the babies I worked with at WIC with very low birth
weights and very premature births, not a single one who was getting breast
milk EVER developed NEC (necrotizing enterocolitis)!
Now if only they could all be like that...And (my current campaign), if only
free or low-cost medical-grade pumps were as readily available to these
low-income mothers whose babies need their milk as they are to the women who
can afford to pay the rental fees, we would see significantly improved
outcomes for these tiny little ones. They are starting life so far behind
already, by being so early and tiny and born into poverty - don't they need
every single *cell* of advantage they can get?
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:47:18 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Helen M Woodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Almond Oil
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Just come back from leading an antenatal evening on breastfeeding, a mother
asked me at the end of the session whether it was ok to carry on using almond
oil on her breasts now and after baby arrives. She has v dry skin. She says
it keeps her breast skin v supple and is easy to work into the skin, much
better than emollient creams. I Looked in archives but not enough info for
me to put her way. All my books are with a trainee bfg counsellor at the mo.
I feel wary of nut allergy, etc., and of putting anything on breasts. We
talked about how not to strip her skin of natural grease with use of
bath/shower potions/soaps. Can lactpals give me more info. Thanks. Helen
Woodman, NCT Breastfeeding Counsellor, UK.
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:52:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Babies in the workplace
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>Published Sunday, May 23, 1999, in the San Jose Mercury News
>Bringing up baby at work? Employers coo over successes
>
>Mary Secret wants to know more about an important option for working
>parents. "I'm studying the practice of bringing infants to work and
>taking care of them yourself," said Secret, an assistant professor of
>social work at the University of Kentucky in Lexington. "It seems such a
>normal thing to do. Of course, it's been done before, but it's a new
>approach for this day and age."
>She's not talking about occasional backup or sick-child care-she means
>every day. Though it's not for everyone, it sounds like a good idea to
>me.
>Secret is co-author of a new report, "Parents in the Workplace: A Study
>of a Unique Infant Child-Care Program." Co-authors are Ginny Sprang,
>also an assistant professor of social work at the university, and Judith
>Bradford, director of the survey and evaluation research laboratory at
>Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond.
>Underlying the study, Secret says, is the fact that "over half of
>working mothers in the U.S. are parents of toddlers and infants."
>Companies that allow parents to be their own babysitters usually do so
>informally, so there is no record of how many do so.
>"But I think it's growing because managers want to retain good
>employees," said Elissa Bassler, public policy program director of the
>Day Care Action Council of Illinois. "It's almost a version of
>telecommuting, but instead of working from home, you work from the
>office-and your co-workers get to coo over the baby."
>Secret and her colleagues studied a division of a large university with
>a staff of 125 people. Its informal program began in 1989 and since that
>time 11 babies, a majority with nursing mothers, have been cared for at
>work. Four infants currently go to work with mom.
>"There are no formal rules, but there are well-understood practices,"
>Secret said. "It's up to the mother to make sure others aren't
>disrupted, to have the equipment she needs and to get her work done."
>The mothers, who have private offices, use the arrangement for four
>months to a year. They report they bond better with their babies, are
>more productive and more loyal-and have free, quality child-care.
>According to Secret, co-workers say that having the infants at work in
>no way lessens their own ability to do their jobs. Of 30 co-workers
>interviewed, 52 percent reported interacting with the babies; 44 percent
>said having the babies there increased their job satisfaction; and 92
>percent said they were proud to work for an employer "that recognizes
>the needs of parents."
>Other companies also report positive results.
>"It makes it a happier place to work because there's less of a
>separation between work and home life," said Laura Nell Soules, public
>relations specialist at T3 (The Think Tank), a marketing and advertising
>firm in Austin with 60 employees. Nine babies have been through the
>program.
>Gay Warren Gaddis, founder, president and mother of three, started the
>program in 1995 when she was concerned about losing "great people."
>Right now, one new mother is bringing her baby to work. "We hope it will
>be a prototype for other companies," Soules said.
>In February, when Kimberly Paszkiewicz, 27, took her infant son T.J. to
>work, she "couldn't have been happier."
>Paszkiewicz is client service manager at Legacy Personnel Group Inc., a
>staffing agency in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., that has 300 employees and has
>allowed babies at work since 1993. "I brought in toys, a walker, high
>chair, bottles," she said. "I sat on the floor in my business suit and
>changed diapers. It didn't disrupt business at all. They all loved him."
>Now that T.J. is more active, he stays at home with a nanny.
>And Paszkiewicz is grateful for the time she had with him at work. "I
>would do anything for the company," she said. "My child means the world
>to me."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>--
>Carol Kleiman writes this column for the Chicago Tribune. Send e-mail to
>[log in to unmask] or write her in care of the Careers Editor, 750
>Ridder Park Drive, San Jose, Calif. 95190.
>
>
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:06:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Immunity
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Since I am on a roll today, I will take the opportunity to respond to the
question about immunities and breastfeeding for the mother who is employed
full time and getting frequent illnesses.
The mother needs to understand that she is probably tired from working..and
that the best thing for her to do is to be evaluated by her physician. As a
new mom, I had a period where I was frequently ill. I was finally
evaluated, and had low thyroid levels...all was well once I started taking
appropriate thyroid replacement. This is only one cause of possible fatigue
and/or illness in a new mother.
Blaming breastfeeding for this is placing it, again, on the altar of
ignorance. What she goes through now is nothing to what she might have to
endure staying out of work to take care of her child, who becomes ill more
frequently due to lack of breastfeeding. Think of the germs she'd catch then.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:21:36 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: drug question
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well! just to show i am not embarrassed to admit my ignorance, what, pray
tell is the therapeutic reason for prescribing valium for a lump behind the
ear? would that make one worry less about what the lump could be, since the
doctor doesn't even want to examine it and is willing to prescribe over the
phone? hmmmm.
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:40:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Steve Salop and Judith Gelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: estrogen patches for induced lactation
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Dear Friends--
Is anyone else bothered by the idea of putting estrogen patches directly
on the breasts of a pre-menopausal woman to help induce lactation? I
don't know enough about this to know if my fears have a basis in
reality, but if this placement gives a bigger dose to the mammary
tissue, what about the risk that it is tumorgenic?
I heard Dr. Craig at the ILCA conference 4 or 6 years ago in Phoenix and
as I recall, his results from all these hormones weren't much better
than the results I see from pumping alone. However, he had a bigger
"drop out" rate and more disappointed mothers because they were focused
on milk supply as a measure of success.
Warmly-
Judy Gelman, IBCLC, adoptive mother of 3 breastfed children
Washington, DC
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:59:30 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Dee Keith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [LLLOhio] And More PR stuff...
Comments: To: Liz Baldwin <[log in to unmask]>,
Liz Baldwin <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Michelle Hardert <[log in to unmask]>,
Linda Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Karen Gromada <[log in to unmask]>,
Ebola <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Brandi Lin Mandingo <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: cc: Andrea Eastman <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Uecker <[log in to unmask]>,
Allison Hazelbaker <[log in to unmask]>,
Chris Auer <[log in to unmask]>,
Ann Twiggs <[log in to unmask]>, Barb Letts <[log in to unmask]>,
Carrie Otterson <[log in to unmask]>,
Cindy Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Dale Houser <[log in to unmask]>,
Marsha Gaines <[log in to unmask]>, Jenni Getz <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Sheila Kippley <[log in to unmask]>,
Karen Wynne <[log in to unmask]>,
Loma Gray <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Lisa Sandora <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Wales <[log in to unmask]>, Norma Escobar <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Scott <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Barb Hampl <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi all , Dee Keith Here. I received a phone call today from a Peds from =
Dayton who was called by Rep. Dixie Allens office to help present =
testimony on the Ohio breastfeeding bill. it appears that testimony will =
be taken sometime most likely in the next week. I wish they could tell =
me when. I intend to go to Columbus for this. This issue will have at =
most one shot . If we do not show and in force, there will no chance =
of this bill passing or moving onto any further discussion. It is =
imperative that we gather our forces and put pressure on our =
legislators. But We need bodies in Columbus, please if you care at all =
about this issue I beg of you show up when we need you. Send your =
friends , family, children, and nursing moms and dads. We have all =
worked so hard to get here, don't let this slip by without a phone call, =
fax, letter or willing testimony to the committee. Please. As soon as I =
have an absolute date and room number I will shout it out. Dee Keith, =
IBCLC, LLLL, Mother of ten BF children
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:10:54 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: allergies
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In a message dated 5/26/99 11:24:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< Tell that to my near-vegan nearly-5-year-old, who's allergy to milk & most
meats is very serious indeed. Kid has never had milk in his life, and is
darn healthy, thank you very much. There ARE other ways of providing
children with the nutrients in milk. >>
My daughter too. She is allergic to dairy and doesn't like meat of any kind.
She is also the healthiest, most robust child. She has never been on
antibiotics - only a few minor colds now and then. So the line about cow
milk being important for children is hogwash - and probably paid for by the
American Dairy Association. I could go off on a rant here but I will shut up
now ;.)
Kim Sherwood, LLLL
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:13:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jake Cipolla <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology
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Actually I was quite surprised when reading the report from their
advisory board that they have listed "encourage breastfeeding" and
"discourage early introduction of solid foods" among the top
preventative measures to the development of childhood allergies.
Everything else in the report is predictable conservative stuff, but I
was pleased to see the plug.
--
Jake Cipolla, retired lawyer, stay-at-home mom to Luca Antonio (7/26/94)
and Nicholas Liam (5/1/97), student L.C., LLL Leader.
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:24:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: michelle i scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Toxic odors/SIDS
Has anyone heard of old mattresses exuding odors (or perhaps molds/mildew)
which might be related to SIDS deaths? I had a client with an 8 day old
infant who asked that question today. Had to say that I had never heard
of that.
This was a baby who has not latched on since she left the hospital,
and we got her on one side quite successfully using the sandwich technique
holding L breast with left hand, baby cradled. The mom and dad were
thrilled.(me too) The R side has a nipple which dimples and retracts as
soon as the baby begins mouthing, so we are trying a shield on that side
along with some pumping.
Michelle Scott, RD,MA,IBCLC in Mason ,NH
begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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`
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:42:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: skin contact/dumb things
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For Kathy who wanted studies about skin contact. An increase in milk volume
with at least 30 minutes of skin-to-skin once a day.
Hurst, N.M. et al. Skin-to-skin holding in the neonatal intensive care unit
influences maternal milk volume. J Perinatol 1997; 17(3):213-17.
Someone asked about dumb things mothers are told. I just met a young
mother who had been told she should not breastfeed because she had
rheumatoid arthritis. The baby would catch her poor immune system. She
believed them. She has a very sickly two-year-old. Pam Easterday
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:46:08 PDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Fookkong Fok <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: White bleb and breastfeeding
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Dear lactnetters,
I just had a mother see me about her white bleb after teaching her how to do
nipple rolling and showed her how to aspirate her white bleb. This is what
she emailed to me :" The whitish spot on the nipple tip was finally squeezed
out thru many trials, with help from my dear husband. it was not the
"sesame" form but curd-like. I did bleed a little again but the pain seemed
to disappear. The spot is now healing (looked a little cracked from all the
poking) and thanks a lot!" Up till today, I do not know why some women are
susceptible to such conditions, but I do hope we will know how to help them
when they have it. Doris Fok, IBCLC in private practice in Singapore
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:00:32 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Timothy Collins <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: introduction
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Hello,
I am Mary Beth Collins, RN,IBCLC. I currently am working part time as a
hospital LC in Greenville, S.C., teach breastfeeding class, support
group, inservices, etc. I am also the mother of a 5 and 9 year old. I
have been reading Lactnet for a month, thanks for all the info.
Hopefully my computer ignorance will not interfer with my post!
A fellow colleague finished nursing her last child 2 years ago, had a
partial hysterectomy soon after that, is on no hormone therapy since she
still has her ovaries, is on Tegretol as her only medication. Over the
past 4 months she has been experiencing fluctuations of her breast size
and tenderness during the same time of each month. This last month she
became engorged bilaterally. She was leaking colostrum like fluid which
then turned to a grayish color for 3 days then all was back to
"normal". Her physicians have not been able to give her any answers
yet. She is to go in for another check-up this week. I would love any
ideas on what this could be. Thank you.
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Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:19:52 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Positive Breastfeeding on U.S. T.V. program
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Did anyone see the program JAG on USA TV ( CBS is the network) last
night 05/25/99? There was a brief breastfeeding segment. Harriet, the
new mother, put the baby to breast ( we only saw her expose the top part of
her bra and strap when she unhooked it) but , HEY! It was so matter of
fact , no big deal just normal gotta feed my baby. Judy RN IBCLC already
feeling better in west Georgia, USA.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 00:28:13 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Birt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby happily sucking own lips/tongue
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I have been trying to help a mom to breastfeed who has a baby with a
suck that I don't quite know how to deal with. He was delivered by
csection and is 8lb and healthy. Csection was due to failure to
progress in labor.
This baby will root but not open his mouth very wide, then attempt to
latch on , but only sucks his own top lip or will keep his tongue on top
of moms nipple , never quite latching on but MAYBE a few times but never
draws her nipple far into his mouth. Her nipples are not flat but are a
little small. I had her use a breast pump to relieve engorgement and to
"bring out" the nipple further. We tried "finger exercises" with him
sucking your finger then withdraw to force tongue down and out. Nothing
has worked to this point...has been 4 days. Is giving EBM by a lactatio
aid. Any suggestions?
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:25:10 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: jackie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: mom with milk bleb
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hi lactnetters,
i would like to thank all those wonderful people who took the time to
respond to my plea for help. i would like to update the situation at
present.
this past sunday i thought we were heading in the right direction because
the bleb came off spontaneously and she was feeling somewhat better but
still had throbbing in her breast during feeding. she planned on renting a
pump so she could pump and feed very freq.
i spoke with her today and she is very discouraged. the bleb is back and she
is so uncomfortable she only nursed twice today. she pumped twice also but
this is so far from the amount that i suggested she do. she is a busy woman
with many activities and hasn't taken my suggestion of rest with others to
help her till she gets past this.
she is on nystatin now and if there is no effect by friday her PCP will
start her on diflucan. he is also interested in the ultrasound treatments
and so is the mom. i spoke with a PT today at our hospital who was not
aware that it could be helpful in this situation but who is agreeing to help
us if there is no improvement soon.
is she doing all the interventions that i have suggested? i think she is
trying but is overwhelmed and frustrated and uncomfortable.
thanks again for the many thoughts on this situation. i appreciate it very
much.
sincerely,
jackie
mail to: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:50:15 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Toxic odors/SIDS
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mattresses and SIDS - Long standing scare, surfaced recently all over the
Net, when some group selling mattress wrapping started to engineer posts to
BBs and mailing lists that they had found the single cause of cot death.
Their very dogmatism should be a red flag, I would have thought.
Still very prevalent scare in the UK, where a guy published a book about it
a few years ago. He has been rubbished a lot of times by the cot death
people who say his scientific investigations don't stand up.
It is, I think it's fair to say, a marginal view, here at least.
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:49:05 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby bathing
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A question of mine got buried in the rest of my post - so I'll ask it again!
Do you routinely bath babies after birth, and if so why?
We no longer do this in the UK, not for at least 20 years.
Here, the baby is wiped after birth, and then the mother is taught the next
day, usually, about 'topping and tailing' - this is a little wash, done
with cotton wool swabs and warm water, of the face, ears, hands (top) and
nappy area (tail). It's done on the mum's lap or in the crib beside her
bed.
Bathing might be done when the baby gets home if the mother wants.
I have never really thought of this as important, but I think it is
relevant to bf.
If babies have to be taken away and 'processed' by the staff in this way, it's
i) an unnecessary separation of mother and baby
ii) a taking over of the baby by the institution and a disempowering of
the mother
ii) a possible interference with the scents that draw mothers and babies
together
(I am pretty sure bathing in the UK was abandoned because of staff time
factors, BTW)
Thoughts, anyone?
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:03:45 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Parent L address
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Can someone please email me the current info on how to subscribe to Parent L?
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:06:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Hi, Heather,
I can't speak for every hospital in the USA, of course, but I think baby
baths are pretty standard here. HIV/AIDS is the reason. The nurses wear
gloves while providing care and assessing the baby until this bath is given.
One of the reasons babies get separated from their moms for so long in the
central nursery method of care. After "bonding" with mom and dad, and
perhaps breastfeeding if they have the right L&D nurse, the baby is brought
to the admission nursery for eye ointment, Vitamin K injection, assessment of
physical health and gestational age, blood sugars if the poor child has the
misfortune of being over 8 1/2 pounds, et cetera. Baby resides in crib under
radiant warmer for at least 2 hours. Dad can visit, but mom will still be in
L&D. The bath isn't done until the babies temp is greater than 98 degrees F.
axillary. After the bath, the temp then has to return to 98 before the baby
can go out to the mother's room.
My hospital has a thriving lactation program and thinks it is baby-friendly
(has even applied for a letter of intent). However, the maternity ward has
just been renovated, all private rooms with private baths and showers,
decorated in beiges and hunter green. Looks like a Hilton. It also has 3
huge nurseries (not including the NICU). Guess who paid for the
architectural design? They never consulted the LCs!
I KNOW that the HIV virus only survives for a few seconds in room air, and
certainly that blood is not a problem once it has dried, but you're not going
to easily persuade our staff to change this practice. I'm just working to
get rid of the central nursery, have the L&D staff bathe the baby, and keep
mom and babe together.
Just the reality I face every day :-)
Kim
Kim Block RN, MSN, IBCLC
Westfield, NJ
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:54:47 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Hi, Heather,
>
>I can't speak for every hospital in the USA, of course, but I think baby
>baths are pretty standard here. HIV/AIDS is the reason.
Thanks Kim. You mean that's the reason 'they" came up with when people
started questioning the need for them : (
> the baby is brought
>to the admission nursery for eye ointment
Not done here routinely.
>Vitamin K injection
Done at bedside or drops are given in two batches, one at bedside one at home
> assessment of
>physical health and gestational age
done at bedside
>, blood sugars if the poor child has the
>misfortune of being over 8 1/2 pounds, et cetera.
Not done routinely and never at birth for a term baby
> Baby resides in crib under
>radiant warmer for at least 2 hours.
Not done here. I have seen warmers in the postnatal ward at the bedside
(but the babies would be better tucked up with mum, wouldn't they?.)
Jaundiced babies prescribed 'lights' are treated at the bedside.
>I KNOW that the HIV virus only survives for a few seconds in room air, and
>certainly that blood is not a problem once it has dried, but you're not going
>to easily persuade our staff to change this practice.
I can see that. It's institutionalised - and boy, does instititionalisation
ever work against bf???
A discussion a few months ago on the list revealed that while in the UK
there is a bunch of bad practice around bf support, this is something we
have got right. We do keep mothers and babies together, and most hosiptals
have no newborn nurserys.
Now, we have it right because of money issues - our National Health Service
is always strapped for cash, and keeping mums and babies together saves
money....bedside care when needed is no more expensive than nusery care,
either, and in any case if you have no nursery that's where it has to be
done.
But the side effect of saving money is that separation is a lot more
dififcult. And do you remember, too, we discovered that in the UK
engorgement is *almost unknown* nowadays in the first days?
It must be very, very hard working in an environment which has never been
designed for happy breastfeeding - with staff who take it for granted that
a baby can be away from mum for two hours just to be warmed.....: (
....artificially....: (...with a warmer....: (
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:04:14 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: American College of Asthma, Allergy...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
>>**But, some babies will be allergic regardless of what their mothers
>>do. When this occurs, your physician may recommend a soy formula (for
>>infants with no soy allergies) or other hypoallergenic infant
>>formulas.**
No wonder soy allergy rates are going up (according to what I have read
and experienced) with attitudes like this! The National Asthma Campaign
in UK don't recommend soy formula be used on potentially allergic babies
at all, until around 4mo, due to soy allergy being common (according to
a weaning information sheet I have). Even the manufacturers of a soy
formula in UK say, in their package insert "At least 10% of babies
allergic to dairy will also be allergic to soya products". Plus, all the
health concerns about soy and phyto-oestrogens etc, the high levels of
glucose syryp in it which are a nightmare for the teeth, the lack of
certain essential fatty acids etc.
And I absolutely *hate* that word "hypoallergenic" as it is meaningless
IMHO - you can be allergic to hypoallergenic products, it's just less
likely. And if you are allergic to a hypoallergenic product, it's
"hypoallergenic" status is irrelevent to you (I am so allergic to one
"hypoallergenic" lipstick, my lips swelled up so I could hardly speak).
I was talking about this issue just the other day, to a mother who had
had to eliminate something like 100 products from her diet in order to
help her breastfed, allergic baby. When she asked the doctors why they
didn't originally suggest changing her diet (she tried the baby on
hypoallergenic formula, with disasterous results, btw) they said that
"they thought it would be too much to expect". She was absolutely
incensed by this attitude - it is *so* patronising.
I do know a mother who refused to consider breastfeeding after her
colicy baby did worse on everything they gave him (however, this was the
same doctor who had prescribed bromocryptine (sp?) a few days before, to
dry up her milk), but most I know would consider it, even if it meant
quite a bit of personal sacrifice. In fact, my experience is that with
the right information, mothers will do the most incredible things to
help their children. My feeling is that so many mothers "choose" to
formula feed out of ignorance, because they've heard all this "breast is
best" stuff, with no support backing it up whatsoever, and assume all
the health problems associated with formula feeding are "normal" (I have
been told that babies "get" ear infections, constipation, chest
infections, "baby eczema" and "baby stomach flu" and this is totally
normal). IMHO, that is patronising as well - do we think they couldn't
"take it" if we started talking about the "risks" of formula feeding?
PS I've just forwarded Diane Weissinger's "Language" essay to my mother,
who bottlefed us both (my sister apparently by choice) and am nervously
awaiting her reaction, preparing to duck! I am trying to educate her to
give myself and my sister an easier life.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:45:07 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: La Leche League
Subject: Milk & Allergies
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I have two short articles "Just say no to cow's milk - it doesn't do a
body good" (which I don't think I have the whole article, as I have no
author) in Health Science; Jan/Feb 1993. This article does list a number
of reports to support it's stance (but none are referenced completely)
and the second is "Milk's Not The One" by Gloria Bucco in Delicious;
Jan/Feb 1993, which uses the same Doctors (Dr. Benjamin Spock and Dr.
Frank Oski) and much the same information. This article, however, has a
table which gives foods rich in Calcium.
I use milk primarily for cooking and my children use it on cold cereal
but I ended the glass of milk with every meal or milk to drink years
ago, even send juice in lunch boxes - my mom would die if she knew it -
but all my kids are growing up healthy.
With a child allergic to food colorings and two that are allergic to
certain foods, I've done more than my share of elimination diets and
research. I also recommend Dr. Doris Rapp's book, "Is This Your Child?"
which discusses allergies and children. (I think there is either a newer
addition or sequel).
Leslie Ward
Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:52:07 -0400
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
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As part of our baby friendly practices, nurses are instructed not to bathe
baby until after the first feed. Sometimes this is hours after birth. No
problems with that at all. Babies are dried off and left on mom's chest
until latching.
The only time this doesn't work is when the mom doesn't want it. That is an
education issue. We teach it in the prenatal breastfeeding class so they
are prepared that the immed. post birth period is not when they will dress
baby up and show him off to relatives.
Susan
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:17:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: new spin on sharing pumps
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For some women, a $300.00 expense may be reasonable for a disposable item.
For many it is not. Women WILL share the PNS. We can't stop that. The
company that makes it could view this as an opportunity rather than a
problem.
My feeling is that there are economical, epidemiological and ecological
reasons to make this pump safe for sharing.
Just my .02 worth.
Susan
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:25:02 -0500
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From: Kathy Birt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: bathing
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We routinely bathe all newborns 2hrs after birth for infection control
reasons....to remove the bodily fluids that supposedly could cause harm
to the caregivers at the hospital who are told to wear gloves until the
bath is done.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:30:39 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Looking for...
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If anyone knows Susan Potts from Minnesota, would you please ask her to
contact me about her problems with her Lactnet subscription, and ask her to
turn off her AOL mail blocking feature. Everything is bouncing back because
she's blocked all mail so I cannot answer the questions she's asked.
Thanks,
Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that they
miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is lost when
raking leaves. ~Marcelene Cox ~
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 06:26:06 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: S&J Sheperd <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Subject: bathing babies
At the hospital I work at (Portland, OR) the primary reason given to bathe
the babies is for protection of the staff from blood and body fluid
contamination. I also think the parents "expect" it - fathers often want to
"do the first bath", and it is also one of those routines that "has always
been done". Parents also seem to expect thier babies to have that "baby
bath" scent.
It always gives me a terrible feeling - like I am witnessing baby torture -
to see the transition nurse (one who attends the deliverys to care for the
baby) giving the baby a bath while the baby just wails away! UGH! This
usually happens within 2 hours after birth, usually before the baby goes
back to mom or is assigned a bassinet.
It is done under the warmer and the nurse (the ones I have seen do it
anyway) really suds up the baby, who is laying on either the blue chux pad
or receiving blankets.
My dream would be to have available special tubs so that the baby could be
immersed into a gentle bath, or just wash the areas that are noticeably
soiled such as caked on blood in the hair, etc.
I would be interested in what other hospitals do around the world as well,
and reasons, too.
Janette
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:36:33 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ringworm on breast
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Like all fungal infections, ringworm is persistent and requires a lengthy
treatment. We live in a warm, humid area of the US, and my children used to
get ringworm from a neighbor's dog fairly regularly. It required about 6
weeks of daily tx with a topical antifungal to resolve. Just like other
fungal overgrowths, if you quit treating before it fully resolves, it comes
back.
When I saw it for the first time on one of my clients, it was a woman who
had the characteristic circular lesion on the inside of her upper arm. She
had a very weepy looking nipple, no visable thrush in baby, and due to
placement of the lesion on her arm, I assumed that's what we were looking at
on the nipple. I communicated my suspicision to the MD and she was tx with
an antifungal. I cautioned her that because of my previous exper she was
looking at an extended treatment. It took many weeks before it went away,
tho it improved vastly as soon as she began using the med. I wish I could
remember whether we had her just pump on that side, but can't for the life
of me recall how we managed the nursing.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:54:14 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Wilson-Clay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby goes to breast at 7 weeks pp
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Thought you'd be interested in an unusual case. Mom is a 40 yr old primip
who had a complicated delivery with long pushing stage and eventual foceps
delivery. Baby girl born close to term with two of the largest
cephlahematomas I've ever seen on the back of her head, and foceps bruises
on the TMJ. Her tongue was partially paralyzed, and there was a droop to
half her face when I first saw her about 2 weeks after the birth. Baby was
bottle feeding pumped milk when I saw her. Mom had damaged bladder and was
in a lot of pain and extrememly depressed.
The plan I set in motion was to protect the milk supply and keep baby on
exclusive human milk feeds. Baby was to be fed using an avent bottle teat
to help her tone her lips and to help her tongue groove. A gel filled
Playtex pacifier was used to provide NNS exercise for her mouth and to keep
her using her facial muscles. I showed mom how to use a newborn small size
nipple shield to coax baby to breast, and even tho baby was only able to
manage a few weak sucks, she did do that much. Mom was thrilled, and agreed
to put baby to breast a few times a day to keep her oriented to the breast.
Mom has required a lot of emotional support and I went back by to do some
Holistic touch therapy on her as a relaxation aid. (I don't charge for
that).
It has been a roller coaster ride. Baby has gained beautifully, the bruises
are fading, hematomas resolving with no calcifications, and neurologist
feels uncertain if he's still seeing any droop. The tongue is working --
lateralization to both sides, central groove visable around bottle and
pacifier, and for the past week there have been a few good sessions at
breast with baby sucking for a few min. I went by yest. to visit and take
some pictures, and suggested we do a nursing attempt. Using the bottle at
breast to calm baby, we got her in the position, and she latched, sucked
rhythmically for 20 min. and took in (by test weight) 48 ml directly from
the first breast. She needed to be coaxed on to the 2nd breast, but took it
and fell asleep nursing. A call later in the day confirmed that she'd
continued to feed effectively the rest of the afternoon and evening.
So again, tell mothers that no matter what, just keep working with whatever
skills the baby has. Remind the mother that sucking is physical therapy for
the oral structures. If baby is too weak to nurse, start on other tools
which encourage sucking. As babies recover, they can go to breast providing
there is available milk, and providing some contact with the breast has been
maintained even if it is just token nursing. If you quit too soon, you miss
the miracle.
Barbara Wilson-Clay, BSEd, IBCLC
Austin Lactation Associates, Austin, Texas
http://www.jump.net/~bwc/lactnews.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:55:47 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Formula promotion in hospitals and docs' offices
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Please e-mail me privately if you work in a medical setting and would be
willing to talk with me --on or off the record--about the way sales reps
handle infant formula promotion in your workplace. I am looking for
first-hand observations of giveaways to docs and nurses, hospital grants,
"contests" to boost formula promotion, etc.
Thanks--
Katie
Katie Allison Granju
Knoxville, TN
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:00:03 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: bathing babies
In-Reply-To: <003b01bea844$7a9b6780$db7dfdd0@shep91>
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Interesting to get the baby bathing experiences - keep 'em coming.
> Parents also seem to expect their babies to have that "baby
>bath" scent.
When my first child was born (19 years ago) she was not bathed until day 8
or 9, when she was at home (discharge on day 7-8 in those days). Until that
time she had some dried blood on her scalp - just a little, though it wore
off as the week went on. It was my blood, I suppose, mixed with a bit of
vernix and amniotic fluid and stuff.
Yukky?
No! It was a very powerful smell...I got to really like it. I can remember
it now. When I finally washed it off, I missed it.
Fresh-washed baby is a lovely smell, too, I know....and it doesn't need a
whole load of gunky soapy stuff on top of it.
Midwives here now counsel mothers not to use soaps or baby bath additives
with their babies, until they're at least a few weeks old. The thinking is
that baby's skin needs to keep its own protective 'surface' and not be
washed off.
Of course, if babies are routinely separated from their mothers, and placed
in a room in an institution where post-operative patients may also be, and
handled by any number of staff, there might well be infection control
issues, only properly dealt with by bathing and soaping.
But if the baby is kept with his mother.....
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:01:24 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lamaze magazine giving away bottles!
I just read an advertisement on the back of the promotional material sent to
Lamaze Certified Childbirth Educators for their Spanish edition of the
magazine. I was surprised to see under the title "WOW! Free Coupons and
Samples" the following sentence: "As part of our "Special Delivery"
Program, we are proud to provide free money-saving coupons and samples to
your expectant couples. You'll see a coupon for Baby Gold Bond Powder, one
for Playtex Bottles and Nipples, information about Baby's first bath......."
I'll wonder if Louise Tellalian, who writes the breastfeeding article for
Lamaze Magazine, is happy about that advertising. At least it isn't
formula.
I think I'll send them a little email today: [log in to unmask]
They are inviting comments and suggestions.
Deanne, BSN, IBCLC, LCCE
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:12:08 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Rhonda on Oprah
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Hi all,
Not feeling well yesterday, I left work early and I saw Rhonda on Oprah yesterday.
Although I am most happy for her to have been rewarded for her achievements, her
breastfeeding efforts were not part of it. This was a disappointment for me. Did
anyone see the show?
Nicole Bernshaw
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:24:40 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby bathing
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I do believe the routine bathing of the baby (scrubbing the bejesus out of
them at our local hospital) goes back way before anyone knew about AIDS
(pre-1985 for public awareness). I think in the US it has a whole lot to
do with our cleanlieness obsession in general, and with people not wanting
to touch anything that is "icky" and certainly not "bloody" -- it's as
though the baby is born in a dirty/filthy/contaminated state, and you want
to get all that junk off of it as soon as possible. The smell of blood and
vernix and amniotic fluid is considered disgusting, and you want a nice
clean-smelling (Johnson's baby powder) baby right away. I did not let my
youngest have a bath in the hospital and the nurses and doctor thought I
was nuts.
Mothers in the US also routinely give the baby a full-body bath every day,
even though the dirty part gets cleaned with every diaper change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:25:01 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Paul & Kathy Koch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rhonda on Oprah
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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>Not feeling well yesterday, I left work early and I saw Rhonda on
>Oprah yesterday.
>Although I am most happy for her to have been rewarded for her
>achievements, her
>breastfeeding efforts were not part of it. This was a
>disappointment for me. Did anyone see the show?
I saw it and wasn't too pleased either. The tributes to mothers were lovely
and I was touched with how overjoyed the women were to be recognized by
their families. Rhonda was super...poised and elegant. I am a fan of Oprah
for her tribute to motherhood as being the most important and difficult job,
BUT...did she have to say the word "breastfeeding" like she had a sour taste
in her mouth? She did this twice and I thought she accentuated the word so
heavily that it made me cringe.
Someone suggested on another list that the women were being honored for
their mothering accomplishments, not their paid or volunteer employment.
So, while I would have liked Rhonda's connections to LLL to be mentioned, I
understand why they were not. I just wish Oprah had said "breastfeeding"
without the sneer in her voice...
Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy Koch, BSEd, IBCLC
Great Mills, MD
mailto:[log in to unmask]
"Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that they
miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is lost when
raking leaves. ~Marcelene Cox ~
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:24:48 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: JMowatt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
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<<Mothers in the US also routinely give the baby a full-body bath
every day,
even though the dirty part gets cleaned with every diaper change.>>
I don't. Call me lazy but I could see no reason to subject my babies
to this. Especially since they were all winter babies. My husband
though I was nuts...I am, but that is a different matter. :-)
Jennifer
Nursing Mothers' Counselor
Harrisburg, PA
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:25:31 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: bathing babies
In-Reply-To: <003b01bea844$7a9b6780$db7dfdd0@shep91>
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I have a client who, with her first baby, made it "clear" that she wanted NO bath for the baby. So, when her little boy was brought to her for the first time, they hadn't bathed him, but had rubbed all of the "gunky stuff" off with a terry towel. He was still glowing red with irritation. She was furious.
With her second baby, she made her demands clearer--no bath, no toweling, NO removal of the vernix, baby "as is". She got her little one as she wished, but with obvious incredulity. She explained why she wanted the protective coating left on her baby.
Well, at least it was a beginning.
As to the "reason" being the Aids concerns, what was the reason during the 40 years before the Aids concerns. It is a part of the same mentality that considers breastmilk a "bodily fluid" and something to be handled with latex gloves. Antibacterial soaps, lotions, "formula", antibiotics, chemical cleaners, and pesticides are seen as friendly, safe, and normal. This aversion to things of the body may even be part of the anti-breastfeeding sentiment in some people. Abm is so much cleaner.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee Wisconsin, USA
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>mailto:[log in to unmask]</color>
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:31:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: harm to caregivers from dirty baby
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>We routinely bathe all newborns 2hrs after birth for infection control
>reasons....to remove the bodily fluids that supposedly could cause harm
>to the caregivers at the hospital who are told to wear gloves until the
>bath is done.
Ha! Feeling feisty this morning. The solution to this issue is DON'T LET
THE HOSPITAL EMPLOYEES TOUCH THE BABY!!!!! If the hospital workers are
that concerned, they should have gloves on all the time, as a nice clean
baby can vomit, pee, and poop all over you at any moment, without warning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D. email:
[log in to unmask]
Anthropology Department phone: (409) 845-5256
Texas A&M University fax: (409) 845-4070
College Station, TX 77843-4352
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/dettwyler.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:46:07 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
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heather wrote:
>
> A question of mine got buried in the rest of my post - so I'll ask it again!
>
> Do you routinely bath babies after birth, and if so why?
Yes, we do routinely bath babies after birth. They are "contaminated
with blood and amniotic fluid which might carry HIV" and are to be
handled with gloves on to "protect" the nurse until after the bathing is
done.
. . .
> I have never really thought of this as important, but I think it is
> relevant to bf.
>
. . .
> ii) a possible interference with the scents that draw mothers and babies together
>
Yes, it definitly does interfer, but very few nurses are aware of the
importance of these scents and most are worried mightily about the
"danger" of an unwashed baby to the staff.
Along this line--not long after I shared Klaus and Kennel's book "The
Amazing Newborn" with my family practice dh, he was called in to see a
newborn. The baby was about 6 hrs old by the time Dave got there. Baby
was vigorously working on his fists and DH told nurses the baby ought to
be encouraged to breastfed NOW. They replied that baby had already been
at the breast 3 times like a champ. Then the nurses proceeded to
apologize that they had been so busy that the baby had not been bathed
yet and doctor would have to use gloves while doing the exam. DH
explained to them the mechanism of the scent of the amniotic fluid on
the baby's hand and his ability to locate the breast and attach so
easily. It was the first time any of them had heard of this.
Maybe we could change the world if we could just get everyone "educated"
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:38:58 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: gentian violet
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A mom ask me something that has never before occurred to me, if we use
gentian violet on mucus membranes (baby's mouth), and on broken skin
(mother's nipples) why is it not used on the baby's bottom? Sorry if this
has been discussed.
Also, if the baby had a rash on its bottom that cleared with over the counter
yeast medication quickly, and has not other signs of thrush in her mouth,
except the white tongue. Now I know white tongues don't mean thrush, all the
time. But if it is normal then why don't all BF babies have white tongues?
Maybe these are both easy questions, but my brain is still in postpartum
fried mode. My baby will be one on June 12th, so I only have so much longer
to use that excuse!
Evonne Davison RN IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:12:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Are Hospital Grade (H/G) Breast Pumps Medical Equipment?
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Hello All,
I need some "official" documentation that H/G electric breast pumps are
considered medical equipment -- which I think they are.
Does any one have any type of policy or directive from the FDA or any
similar entity that incorporates a sentence, etc. concerning reporting
of tissue injury from breast pumps, or that describes some type of
categorization of medical equipment and the placement of breast pumps in
the tier? ANYTHING that says "h/g breastpump = medical equipment"?
The docs in our NICU have taken a stronger approach to educating
insurance companies as to why the babies need breast milk, so they have
OK'd a letter which teaches as well as prescribes such a pump.
One insurance company decided, based on the letter, to "upgrade" to a
M-- - M--!
We ALL know that this mom can easily maintain a milk supply for at least
three months on this powerful machine! (Right!)
They then sent a letter to the attending physician which stated that
payment for a H/G pump was denied because it was not considered medical
equipment.
>From this post, you can guess our next step....... if we can find such
documentation.
Richard? Elena? Any lurkers from Hollister? If anyone reading this post
has something, please e-mail me for toll-free fax instructions.
Thanks to all in advance.
Sandy
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:41:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: VICOPROFEN
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Vicofprofen is hydrocodone & ibuprofen (I don't know the exact dosages).
Unless the lady is in a great deal of pain, I think hot warm soaks to her
neck would be much better. I don't know why Valium would be beneficial. I
would think antibiotics would be indicated
Cheryl Vattes RN IBCLC
Fort Smith Arkansas
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:52:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mary Renard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: oprah and great moms
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Kathy Koch said:
>I just wish Oprah had said "breastfeeding"
without the sneer in her voice...
I noticed it too. She couldn't say it without giggling or a sort of
can-you-believe-this incredulity in her voice. The show did give rise to a
funny scene at my house, though, and I know all the parents of teens on this
list will particularly enjoy what happened in my kitchen after the show.....
I told my kids (13 y/o girl, 17 y/o boy were watching with me), "Well, hey,
a weekend at a spa [prize for 'Great Moms'] sounds pretty nice!" And Elaine
said, "Oh, do you want us to write a letter for you to Oprah?" I replied,
"Sure," and she said, "Yeah, well, but, you're not a great mom!"
Her brother spluttered, "What do you mean? She is so a great mom!" (Ah,
payoff for years of surly teenage behavior) And Elaine went on to explain,
well, I hadn't done anything great like the first mom whose husband had
died, leaving her to raise three little kids on her own. When I protested
that the second mom was an LLL Leader like me, Elaine was unimpressed. (I
was having some fun with her at this point because she realized she had dug
herself into a hole.) I went on: "Well, what about my going back to school?
How many moms go back to college and get straight As? What about going to
medical school? How many moms do that?" (rolled eyes, she is very
anti-academic at the moment) So I tried again: "What about all those
mornings I get up at 5:30 to take you to skating?"
"Oh!" Elaine said, "well, that IS great. Okay, I'll write."
So - I am not a great mom because I'm just a great mom, or because I've done
lots of stuff to help other moms, or because I got straight As, or because I
am hoping to go to medical school. I *am* a great mom because I take her to
skating!!
The whole thing was hilarious. By far the most amusing thing was Michael
sticking up for me and telling his sister that I was undoubtedly a great
mom. If I want that spa weekend, I know which kid should write the letter. :-D
Mary Renard, RN, BSN, IBCLC
above-average mom, anyway
Vienna Virginia USA
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:57:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "D. McCallister" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pump sharing & dirty pumps
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I am not a healthcare professional, but after reading all this
information about the crud, yeast, and mold that builds up in a pump, I
think it begs the question of how safe it is for the PRIMARY user and
her baby. If a pump's design is inherently unsanitary, maybe it isn't
such a great design.
Just because it's my personal crud doesn't mean it's safe for it to come
in contact with my baby's food.
Just a thought.
Debbie McCallister
Louisville, Kentucky
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:01:18 -0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Lori C. Salisbury" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Immunity
Comments: To: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
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Kathleen,
Thanks for your helpful response. I will pass on your thoughts to this
mother. FYI, she has already cut back on her full time employment, so I
think she realized that it was hard on her.
Lori Salisbury, RN, IBCLC
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 3:06 PM
Subject: Immunity
>Since I am on a roll today, I will take the opportunity to respond to the
>question about immunities and breastfeeding for the mother who is employed
>full time and getting frequent illnesses.
>
>The mother needs to understand that she is probably tired from working..and
>that the best thing for her to do is to be evaluated by her physician. As a
>new mom, I had a period where I was frequently ill. I was finally
>evaluated, and had low thyroid levels...all was well once I started taking
>appropriate thyroid replacement. This is only one cause of possible
fatigue
>and/or illness in a new mother.
>
>Blaming breastfeeding for this is placing it, again, on the altar of
>ignorance. What she goes through now is nothing to what she might have to
>endure staying out of work to take care of her child, who becomes ill more
>frequently due to lack of breastfeeding. Think of the germs she'd catch
then.
>
>Kathleen
>
>Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
>Williston, Vermont
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
>
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: chair for breastfeeding
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Hi all! I have been asked to select a chair to be used for lactation
consults at our pediatric visit. If anyone has any
guidance/reccomendations, I would really appreciate it if you would
email me privately at [log in to unmask], janna in w.htfd,CT
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:19:44 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Cows Udderly Agree" Campaign
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I have just e-mailed Chik-fil-A with the following proposal for World
Breastfeeding Week (greatly abbreviated for Lactnet):
For the week or so leading up the WBW, and during that week, please use
food tray covers with the following ad:
2 cows, possibly "nursing" their calves, and the caption "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 8."
On the paper tray cover, on the front or back, list benefits of
breastfeeding (which I supplied) to baby, mom, and governmental and
health care financial resources.
I also said that I would send out a call throughout a variety of
organizations which support breastfeeding to eat a meal at Chick-fil-A
during world breastfeeding week, possibly on a certain day.
I also suggested that if Chik-fil-A would print the ad on T-shirts,
families could order one or more from CFAs catalog.
I'm alerting Lactnuts about this at *this* time so you can e-mail CFA
from their website @
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback.htm
and send a BRIEF message: "Please adopt the 'Cows Udderly Agree'
Project. You can count on my family of (#) enjoying a meal at your
restaurant during World Breastfeeding Week to help defray your costs in
supporting the education of mothers on this vital health care issue."
If you would be willing to purchase a T-shirt, please say so.
At this point, do not send a long letter. (I've done that!). Just let
them know you will support the campaign.
Let others know so they can send an e-mail, tool.
Thanks, and keep your fingers crossed! I will keep everyone on Lactnet
informed of the progress.
Sandy Hess
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:15:48 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Rhonda on Oprah
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In a message dated 5/27/99 10:25:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<<
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:12:08 -0600
From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rhonda on Oprah
Hi all,
Not feeling well yesterday, I left work early and I saw Rhonda on Oprah
yesterday.
Although I am most happy for her to have been rewarded for her achievements,
her
breastfeeding efforts were not part of it. This was a disappointment for me.
Did
anyone see the show?
Nicole Bernshaw
>>
Dear Nicole -
Yes, I saw it and was there (at Rhonda's house) when she got the call from
Oprah. In Oprah's introduction of Rhonda, Oprah said she was surprised at
her home thinking she was doing a news piece for the local cable company
about breastfeeding. Oprah then said "She's a big advocate". When Oprah
talked to Rhonda on the phone, Oprah mentioned "You're supposed to be doing a
local cable piece about breastfeeding?" These were the references on air
about Rhonda's breastfeeding "affiliation".
While I am disappointed that more was not mentioned about Rhonda's efforts
with La Leche League over the last years (and yes, her sister DID write about
Rhonda's affilation with LLL and how she helps breastfeeding mothers) - I am
pleased that Oprah did make these few references to breastfeeding during
Rhonda's brief segment. We all know that Oprah does not openly endorse
breastfeeding (or LLL for that matter) on her show. IMNSHO, the was a big
step that Oprah even mentioned the word "breastfeeding" a few times and only
giggled once!
It sometimes takes up small steps. Rhonda told me that in her thank you note
to Oprah, she encouraged Oprah to do a show dedicated to the seven founders
of LLL and/or breasteeding. Let's see how far it goes. We can all help by
writing to Oprah (in positive comments) on her choice of Rhonda as a Mother
of the Month, and also encouraging Oprah to now carry it a step further and
do a show either on LLL or breastfeeding in general. Oprah likes to do what
her viewer like - if we all wrote now, it would be a powerful message. Don't
you think?
Thanks for watching and your comments.
Warmly,
Sheila Angalet
LLL, Edison, NJ
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:21:52 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Carrolls <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sharing Pump In Style
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I work at the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention (The CDC) as a
Lactation consultant. I had one of the moms call Medela and identify
herself as Dr..from CDC/ and epidemiologist to discuss the sharing of Pump
In Style Pumps. Basically, Medela referred her to a someone who said Medela
had not done ANY studies. They could not prove that it would be harmful in
any way. Their concern was the potential lawsuit. This Physician is using a
"used" pump. Her question was...if it is so contaminted what about using it
with her OWN children?
BY THE WAY.........There are two Patti Carroll's on this list. Are there
any others with duplicate names???? I am NOT nursing TWINS!!!!!!
Patti Carroll, RN, IBCLC
CDC/ATSDR Lactation program
770-493-4908 Voice mail
888-488-4908 toll free voice mail
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:24:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Linda Tandy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding and nausea
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I am currently working with a mom who complains of nausea during
breastfeeding. This is her third baby, and she had it with the first two,
however with each baby the nausea has increased significantly. With the
first two, she just tolerated it, but with the third she is so nauseated,
and dealing with two older children, she is feeling stressed. I searched
the archives, and got a few suggestions, but no studies or firm information.
Has anyone else seen this? What is the physiological action? Finally, any
suggestions? Thanks in advance! Linda
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:43:52 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
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I believe that the company did not put a filter into the P/S because of the
life expectancy of the motor. This pump is warranted for 12 months and I've
had a couple of moms tell me recently that they saw a difference in suction
at about 16 months. So probably, the company expected a mom to use it for a
year or so and then to notice a gradual failing of the motor. What they
didn't expect, was moms to use it for 2-6 months and then pass it on. Just
my observations!
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico where summer is finally arriving
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:33:39 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths in Israel
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One of my pet peeves......the bath.
I will try to be serious.......I was scolded by E.A. for being too
silly.
In our hospital babies are being allowed to remain with the mother
longer and longer in the L&D which means that they are taken to the
nursery within the first hour and a half after birth as opposed to the
first ten minutes.
They are put under grillers until their turn comes to be washed. We can
have as many as 13 new babies at a time, so the length of time varies.
Then comes the "bath," shower actually. The babies are washed under the
tap in the sink, sort of like a lettuce... first the back and then the
front, and then the head is held under the tap. I have seen more than
one baby aspirate water. They scream and I am sure are water traumatized
forever. I am unable to watch this procedure to this day and the few
times I have been asked to help with the baths, I refuse to bathe them
that way.
Rationalization? They are bathed so soon because that is the way it has
always been done. No one thinks about HIV here , so that is not the
issue.
I wanted to bring a little plastic tub into the teaching room to let
moms learn how to bathe the babies, but it is not allowed because of the
issue of cleaning the tub between each bath.
The babies are bathed every morning right before my breastfeeding class
which means that most babies sleep through that feed because we all
know that a bath like a car ride is like general anesthesia for a baby.
For babies who need to be assessed by me before release, we learn alot
about rousing techniques!! I have mentioned to the staff that it might
be a good idea to wash the babies at night........dream on!! It has
always been done in the morning, and will probably continue.
So there you have it......how Israeli babies spend their first few hours
of life.
Esther Grunis,IBCLC ( trying to be serious and hating it!!)
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:34:50 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump sharing & dirty pumps
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>I am not a healthcare professional, but after reading all this
>information about the crud, yeast, and mold that builds up in a pump, I
>think it begs the question of how safe it is for the PRIMARY user and
>her baby. If a pump's design is inherently unsanitary, maybe it isn't
>such a great design.
>
>Just because it's my personal crud doesn't mean it's safe for it to come
>in contact with my baby's food.
>Just a thought.
>
And a great thought!!
And with the CDC Patti Carroll's post about Medela's telling the MD that they have no studies, just CYA recommendations, we can begin to look at this differently.
How many of our cautions are based on "Their concern was the potential lawsuit."
By the way, Patti, thank you for telling us about our being blessed with 2 Patti Carrols. I'll bet that you two are unique on this list. Right??
Pat Gima, IBCLE
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:53:03 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Cows Udderly Agree" Project
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I have e-mailed Chick-fil-A with the following proposal for World
Breastfeeding Week (greatly abbreviated for Lactnet):
For the week or so leading up to WBW, and during that week, please use
food tray covers with the following ad:
2 cows, possibly "nursing" their calves, and the caption "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 8."
On the paper tray cover, on the front or back, list benefits of
breastfeeding (which I supplied) to baby, mom, and governmental and
health care financial resources.
I also said that I would send out a call throughout a variety of
organizations which support breastfeeding to eat a meal at Chick-fil-A
during WBW (they have salads, etc. for any vegetarians), possibly on a
certain day.
I also discussed the positive PR, etc.
Also proposed was a suggestion that they print the ad on t-shirts so
families could order them through the CFA catalog that week or around
that time.
I am alerting Lactnuts at *this*time so you can e-mail CFA from their
website @
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback.htm
and send a BRIEF message: "please adopt the 'Cows Udderly Agree'
Project. you can count on my family of (#) enjoying a meal at your
restaurant during World Breastfeeding Week, to help defray your costs in
supporting the education of mothers on this vital health care issue."
If you are would be willing to purchase a T-shirt, please say so.
At this point DO NOT send a LONG letter -- I've done that! (and with all
typos fixed before sending it!) :) Just let them know you will
support the campaign.
Let others know, so they can send an e-mail, too.
Thanks, and keep your fingers crossed! I will keep everyone on Lactnet
informed of the progress.
Sandy Hess
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:52:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: gentian violet
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>A mom ask me something that has never before occurred to me, if we use
>gentian violet on mucus membranes (baby's mouth), and on broken skin
>(mother's nipples) why is it not used on the baby's bottom?
I think that it is Dr. Jack Newman who recommends mixing GV with a zinc oxide cream and applying it to baby's diaper area. It stains fingers, of course, but my clients have been creative in getting around that. They mix it with either Desitin, J&J zinc oxide cream, or Balm X. Of course, one could make a dilute solution of GV and water and rinse baby's bottom.
>Also, if the baby had a rash on its bottom that cleared with over the counter
>yeast medication quickly, and has not other signs of thrush in her mouth,
>except the white tongue. Now I know white tongues don't mean thrush, all the
>time. But if it is normal then why don't all BF babies have white tongues?
No, these aren't "easy" question. As to the white tongue, some people claim that white tongue doesn't indicate yeast overgrowth, but I believe that it does. It's just that sometimes it doesn't bother baby nor mother's nipples. It is just a low-level yeast imbalance, so it is not treated. (I do believe that it is not optimal health, though, for one to have a white coating on her tongue.) But if there is yeasty bottom, sore nipples, white tongue, or poor feeding (short, frequent) in a baby who had been feeding well, then anti-fungal measures are in order. And as the yeast problem is resolved the white on the tongue recedes, from front to back, to a nice pink tongue again.
One of the first signs of recurrence of yeast overgrowth in a baby is the return of the white coating on the tongue. It can fully return overnight.
Also there can be a white tongue and red bottom with no other symptoms in mother or baby until.... something tips the balance further and we get the call about full-blown yeast overgrowth.
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee Wisconsin
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:02:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: baby warmers
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and i was told by a nurse here that "the mom can have the baby for kangaroo
care as soon as he has spent half an hour under the warmer, then she can hold
him for a while, but then he has to go back under the warmer." nothing more
infuriating than someone using the words but unclear on the concept.
but then, if we don't separate the mom and baby before successful nursing can
get started, and if we don't make it clear to the mother that the nurses
*have* to do these various things, then how else would we make it clear to
her that she is incompetent to take care of her own child and needs to do
exactly as she is told to do by the many different and contradictory people
who will be seeing her over the next couple of days? who does the baby belong
to, anyway?
carol brussel IBCLC
specializing in asking the questions
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:56:13 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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well, heather, since you asked again, i am afraid i must say that it seems to
me to be because of a sort of revulsion about "bodily fluids" (got to wash
"that stuff" off the baby, after all, look where it's just been) that also
relates to the concept of breastmilk being "yucky" because it comes out of a
body.
here are two things that recently happened to clients of mine (separate
people); one mom's baby did not latch on "immediately" on the delivery table,
and when shoving his little face onto the nipple did not work, the nurses
helpfully dripped formula on the mother's breast to entice him. (i am not
sure i can even allow myself to start writing what i think about THAT). the
second mom was told that her baby could not hang around to "try"
breastfeeding because it was the hour at which baths were given in the
nursery and if she did not let them take the baby to get his bath RIGHT THAT
MINUTE he wouldn't get one for twenty-four hours. god forbid that a new baby,
still shiny from amniotic fluid, should go lie upon his sweaty but happy
mother and drink bodily fluids from her!
okay, so somebody show me some great scientific studies proving that a bath
is really crucial, and if so, then why aren't all those dirty babies in
heather's part of the world suffering terribly?
carol brussel IBCLC
laura nevada lactation
denver colorado
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:46:58 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: P/S
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I keep seeing that many think the P/S is $300. Suggested retail is $277,
discounted everywhere to $250. It's only a $50 difference, but by telling
everyone that it is $300, it's misleading.
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico where I have to compete with internet
sales that don't charge sales tax and give free shipping!
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:24:24 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dirty babies
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<DON'T LET
THE HOSPITAL EMPLOYEES TOUCH THE BABY!!!!! >
Brilliant idea!!!
<Call me lazy but I could see no reason to
subject my babies to this. >
I worked for many years with a pediatric dermatologist who advised
parents NOT to bathe newborns daily for the first few months of life.
They need the protective layers that nature provides!! He suggested
bathing no more than three times a week, and most parents were happy to
follow his advice.
By the way that doc was the best authority in Israel on breastfeeding.
Guess who educated him!! Unlike most docs, he read every article I gave
him and read Ruth Lawrence cover to cover and could recite word for
word. Results: he was the most popular ped in the country and his clinic
was overflowing!!
Esther Grunis, still trying to be serious and reading Lactnet instead of
preparing a lecture on bf in the NICU.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:46:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Pushy about breastfeeding?
Ester, your situation is very different from mine. You're in Israel and
I'm in Arkansas, USA. You're in a hospital and I'm in a maternity clinic.
You have lots of women wanting you to help with breastfeeding and I have
some that are interested prenatally and many that aren't. That said, I do
want to comment that sometimes it is easy to assume someone doesn't want to
breastfeed from her comments if you don't ask enough questions.
For example, a few months ago a 20 year old single pregnant woman was in
clinic with her mother (who she lives with). When I asked about
breastfeeding she gave me one of the general "I just really don't want to"
answers. Her mother then interrupted with a horror story about trying to
breastfeed this young woman and her twin. She told how extremely sore she
got and how the hospital "squeezed my breasts in an iron machine" when she
was engorged. I cringed at her description and assumed her daughter 's
chances of breastfeeding were next to nothing.
Last week I called to see if she'd had the baby yet and how they were doing
(I'm a social worker, too, so I follow-up with some women whether or not
they are breastfeeding). We discussed the birth and the baby, etc. Then
she volunteered that she was breastfeeding. I might not have asked. I
ended up making a home visit because she said she was very sore. It turned
out that although she lives with her loud and negative mother, she has a
mind of her own and decided to do what was best for the baby. Also her
twin sister has breastfed five children, which they didn't tell me at that
first visit!
So I realized that sometimes I don't ask enough questions and stop too soon
when I get a negative response about breastfeeding.
-Lucy Towbin, MSW, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:47:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: latch problem
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Sorry my post was accidently sent before I finished. Wanted to say that doc
wants mother to retrain her bladder by urinating every hour for a week,
then every hour and a half, then every 2 hours. Mother already feesl like
there is no time in her day for her two year old and newborn and now she has
this added dilema.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Gerri, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:10:36 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby warmers
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Carol writes:
>but then, if we don't separate the mom and baby before successful nursing can
>get started, and if we don't make it clear to the mother that the nurses
>*have* to do these various things, then how else would we make it clear to
>her that she is incompetent to take care of her own child and needs to do
>exactly as she is told to do by the many different and contradictory people
>who will be seeing her over the next couple of days? who does the baby belong
>to, anyway?
>
>carol brussel IBCLC
>specializing in asking the questions
>
And just what would the nurses *do* all day?
That's a serious question, in fact (as yours are, Carol, I know).
I already indicated that in the UK , bedside care of the baby (inc all
assessments and so on), no bathing, no routine blah blah blah...and the
mother being caregiver from the very start is *cash and resources-driven*
rather than inspired by a devotion to breastfeeding support.
Undoubtedly, your maternity units could manage with fewer staff if the
nurses didn't have to do all this capering about with gloves and bathing
(and those poor little Israeli babies....what a terrible ordeal...) and
testing. Sheesh. What a palaver.
And no one wants to be out of a job.
Of course, they could all be re-trained as lactation consultants and
breastfeeding supporters.....
And then they might be doing something *useful* : )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:59:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: the bath
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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My two children were not bathed until we'd been home several days, and then
it was in the tub with me. and those baths are very infrequent, maybe once
a week or often less. Well, my son is two now so he showers everyday
almost with daddy, but my 11 week old doesn't. And we use only plain dove
soap or goat milk soap.
My son was born in hospital, my daughter was born in a free standing birth
centre.
We never asked not to have them bathed either, they just weren't. It
wasn't offered. Wiped off gently (to wipe the liquid off, and gently rub
in the vernix) with warmed receiving blankets was all. And we weren't in
that progressive of an area.
-Wendey, studying LC Montreal Canada (where it's cloudy).
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:35:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: pumping for twins
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi - I've just started working w/a mom of 2 week old twins who has a big
milk supply problem!!!! She now has a double electric pump and 1 baby
who will latch-on and does transfer milk, but one who is very tiny who
has oral orifice insufficiency and can't latch. My thought was to feed
one twin exclusively at the breast and simultaneously pump the other
breast, then feed EBM plus added formula if needed to the smaller twin.
The pediatrician reccommended to the mom that she not breast feed one
and bottle/alternatively feed the second twin, even short term, that
they should be eating the same way - ie both breast or both bottle????
anyway....the mom also felt that she didn't have time to pump that
frequently and then feed the babies too.
My question: how often and for how long should she double pump if she
is getting no nipple stimulation from the babies, in order to bring in
enough milk for the twins? Is it the same as for singletons and her
body just knows that there are 2?????? thanks! janna,cpnp, ibclc in w.
htfd. CT
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:59:35 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Boys and other thoughts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255"
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In cultures where boys are the preferred sex - might mothers make more of
an effort to continue breastfeeding inspite of difficulties?
I never had any great breastfeeding problems but I think what brought me to
this lifelong passion was falling in love with the magic of breastfeeding. I
was, and still am, entranced by it all.
On our maternity floor, we too are always a bit more optimistic when a
preemie is a girl - they do seem to do better. Sincerely, Toby (Haifa,
Israel)
Toby Gish RN, BA, IBCLC, LLLL
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:31:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to use.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Does anyone have any helpful information that could be used to convince a
town board to allow a pump rental business to put in some Lactina's in the
nurses office at a school for the teachers that are breastfeeding.
Any articles with statistics, benefits, pr articles etc? Not sure how to
approach this.
Can someone point me in a helpful direction? I'm feeling clueless.
Belinda Bohnert, Nursing Matters Breastpump Sales & Rental, Indianapolis
Indiana, US
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:41:22 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dee Dee & Jean Whalen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sheehan's syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello all, I am finally back after a long break, having
gotten breastfeeding established with my now 6 week old
daughter. I have a question for Dr Jack Newman, or anyone
else who can help. This question comes from Pamela Browne,
IBCLC here in Goose Bay, Labrador who does not have access
to a computer:
"Does Sheehan's Syndrome ever resolve? Can a woman
breastfeed her next baby if she had Sheehan's syndrome with
an earlier baby? How does one definitely diagnose
Sheehan's?"
TIA
Deborah Whalen, BN RN ("IBCLC wannabe!")
Goose Bay, Labrador
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to
use.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Would ask Medela for that data. Also, if this is a high school, the
students may need the pumps too. Would definitely look into it from that
angle.
Susan
[log in to unmask] on 05/27/99 03:31:29 PM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to use.
Does anyone have any helpful information that could be used to convince a
town board to allow a pump rental business to put in some Lactina's in the
nurses office at a school for the teachers that are breastfeeding.
Any articles with statistics, benefits, pr articles etc? Not sure how to
approach this.
Can someone point me in a helpful direction? I'm feeling clueless.
Belinda Bohnert, Nursing Matters Breastpump Sales & Rental, Indianapolis
Indiana, US
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:26:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: P/S
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We sell it for $277 and with taxes that makes it $294. I think it
reasonable to say a mom is spending $300. on this pump in our area.
Susan
Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]> on 05/27/99 11:46:58 AM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: Re: P/S
I keep seeing that many think the P/S is $300. Suggested retail is $277,
discounted everywhere to $250. It's only a $50 difference, but by telling
everyone that it is $300, it's misleading.
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico where I have to compete with internet
sales that don't charge sales tax and give free shipping!
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:21:37 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Karen Zeretzke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lamaze magazine giving away bottles!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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It may not be formula, but advertising bottles and teats still is against
the Code.
<fume>
Karen Zeretzke, MED, IBCLC
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
[log in to unmask]
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/bfcost.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:33:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby warmers
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>and i was told by a nurse here that "the mom can have the baby for kangaroo
>care as soon as he has spent half an hour under the warmer, then she can
hold
>him for a while, but then he has to go back under the warmer."
I remember hearing this at a hospital I worked at a few years ago. I was
"just a CNA nursing a baby", what did I know. But the breastfeeding
counselor told me once, while putting a baby under the warmer, how well she
liked the baby warmer or whatever name they had for that particular one. I
replied with "But doesn't skin to skin contact with mom do well also?" She
said ,"Yes, but she liked the warmer cause she could see EXACTLY what the
baby's temperature was." There you have it. It is ingrained in our society.
Seeing is believing. Nothing left on instinct with people.
Patti c.
(mother of 3, nursing mother of 19-mo twins and aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:34:24 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby baths in Israel
Mime-Version: 1.0
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The only way to stop this sort of nonsense is to inform moms of the
negative effects and encourage them to refuse the bath. I am very vocal in
my breastfeeding classes for prenatal patients and some of our CBE's are as
well.
Susan
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:39:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: No nursery
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>>
>And just what would the nurses *do* all day?
>
>
I think some of this fussing with the baby is eliminated in hospitals
without a nursery. Sacred Heart in Eugene, Oregon has just their level III
NICU and an extra nursery for some overflow. The routine, though, is that
babies stay with their mom and AREN'T taken to the nursery for routine
procedures.
patti c.
(aspirining LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:44:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>Mothers in the US also routinely give the baby a full-body bath every day,
>even though the dirty part gets cleaned with every diaper change.
I have heard this on a wonderful multiples list I am on. We were discusing
bathing one time and more than a few moms admitted to bathing their
multiples daily since birth. One did mention they did not use soap though. I
just can't see the need in little babies and we still don't do it daily with
them as toddlers unless they have been playing outside or gotten dirty
somehow.
Patti c.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:19:40 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Pump crud, old and older
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Debbie Macallister writes:
<< Just because it's my personal crud doesn't mean it's safe for it to come
in contact with my baby's food. >>
And if that's true when it's this year's crud, how much truer when it is the
crud from when one was pumping for ones last kid, before the PNS sat under
the bed or in the top of the closet for three years.
Cross-contamination, at least in a home setting, just doesn't seem like a
much bigger issue than the general germiness of life.
Elisheva Urbas
whose kids have occasionally been known to eat Cheerios off the New York City
sidewalks, which really is disgusting.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:33:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
In-Reply-To: <01bea879$48f864a0$0999170c@default>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I, too, have a friend who is a Ped dermatologist. He says that if the hospitals stop giving that famous "bath" he will be out of a job. He recommends no soap on infants because of resultant rashes and other skin irritations. No soap for a loooooong time.
A local Ped, who is one of the Good Guys, was asked by new parents when they could bathe the baby with soap and his reply was, "When her knees are dirty."
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>mailto:[log in to unmask]</color>
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dee Keith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [LLLOhio] And More PR stuff...
Comments: To: [log in to unmask], Michelle Hardert <[log in to unmask]>,
Linda Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Karen Gromada <[log in to unmask]>,
Ebola <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Brandi Lin Mandingo <[log in to unmask]>,
Liz Baldwin <[log in to unmask]>,
"Cc: Andrea Eastman" <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Uecker <[log in to unmask]>,
Allison Hazelbaker <[log in to unmask]>,
Chris Auer <[log in to unmask]>,
Ann Twiggs <[log in to unmask]>, Barb Letts <[log in to unmask]>,
Carrie Otterson <[log in to unmask]>,
Cindy Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Dale Houser <[log in to unmask]>,
Marsha Gaines <[log in to unmask]>, Jenni Getz <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Sheila Kippley <[log in to unmask]>,
Karen Wynne <[log in to unmask]>,
Loma Gray <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Lisa Sandora <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Wales <[log in to unmask]>, Norma Escobar <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Scott <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Barb Hampl <[log in to unmask]>
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I talked to the State house today and Dixie Allen's office . They told =
me that they would call me and let me know when the Ohio bill would be =
up and need testimony they didn't think it would be next week though. So =
in the mean time contact your legislators and tell then that they need =
to support this bill that is so vitally need to clarify the legalities =
of breastfeeding. It is legal even though Rep. Rhine McLin didn't think =
it was to nurse in public. The bill is needed as protective legislation =
to clarify existing laws for both the general public and for law =
enforcement and business. Some legislators have said that they will not =
act on this until some one is arrested. Which is in my option way to =
late. I will post as soon as I have a date for testimony . Dee Keith, =
Tri-State Breastfeeding Advocates, IBCLC, LLLL, mother of ten BF =
children.=20
=20
Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [LLLOhio] And More PR stuff...
=20
=20
Hi all , Dee Keith Here. I received a phone call today from a Peds =
from Dayton who was called by Rep. Dixie Allens office to help present =
testimony on the Ohio breastfeeding bill. it appears that testimony will =
be taken sometime most likely in the next week. I wish they could tell =
me when. I intend to go to Columbus for this. This issue will have at =
most one shot . If we do not show and in force, there will no chance =
of this bill passing or moving onto any further discussion. It is =
imperative that we gather our forces and put pressure on our =
legislators. But We need bodies in Columbus, please if you care at all =
about this issue I beg of you show up when we need you. Send your =
friends , family, children, and nursing moms and dads. We have all =
worked so hard to get here, don't let this slip by without a phone call, =
fax, letter or willing testimony to the committee. Please. As soon as I =
have an absolute date and room number I will shout it out. Dee Keith, =
IBCLC, LLLL, Mother of ten BF children
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:48:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: pumping for twins
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i must say i am dying to know why the pediatrician insists that both babies
be fed "the same way." if one twin could not breath on his own, would they
both have to be on oxygen?
carol brussel IBCLC
stilllll asking questions
heather - what a dream world about hospitals! good imagination girl.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:32:07 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bathing babies
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi Carol,
>okay, so somebody show me some great scientific studies proving that a bath
>is really crucial, and if so, then why aren't all those dirty babies in
>heather's part of the world suffering terribly?
Just to confirm what Heather is saying, my baby only had a bath in
hospital because she was covered in meconium (passed it as she was
born), but even so, it wasn't until the next day. In the meantime a
"lick and a promise" (ie a perfunctory wipe with a wet cloth) had to
suffice. Most of the babies in the hospital at the time didn't have a
bath at all.
My next two babies were born at home. One was admitted to hospital at 5
days old, having never been bathed and finally had a bath in SCBU at 10
days old, mainly to wash off the iodine and blood from the numerous
tests she'd had to endure (a student nanny did it for me, because she
needed the practice!). The second was bathed at about 2 weeks old
because I had had to lie to my mother, who thought that this was a sign
of a neglectful mother!
My midwives told me that newborn babies should only be bathed in plain
warm water, they did *not* need a bath every day and vernix was nature's
moisturiser. They were ordinary, NHS midwives, so I assume what I was
told was the "party line".
I have to confess to reading about some of these practices of bathing
and seperation from the mother with absolute horror, and the feeling
that I haven't heard of such things since the 1970s in UK. It must take
a lot more staff than the British practice of getting the mother to do
all the work wherever possible.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:09:34 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Scheduled feeding - natural?
Comments: To: Parent-L Breastfeeding Parents Support List
<[log in to unmask]>, Stay-at-Home AP Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
a friend who is in the breastfeeding world shared something with me
today which amused me, with regards to my research into the Ezzo program
and their promotion of scheduled feeding.
I was saying that animals (thinking of primates) nurse their young on
demand and she replied that that wasn't true of all species - pigs,
apparently, nurse their young when it's convenient for them and have
conscious control of their letdown. If a mother pig is worried or
frightened, she can actually refuse to nurse her young altogether, and
even if they can get to latch on, they get no milk without her consent.
So there you have it. Scheduled feeding is natural - for a pig!
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:27:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Rx for mastitis
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Martha
having got rather a backlog of Lactnet I was surprised that no-one has
commented about the timing of prescription of antibiotics for mastitis.
In the Uk we have been looking at information that most mastitis - by
definition inflammation of the breast - does not, if treated quickly involve
bacteria and therefore doesnt need Rx of antibiotics instantly. Sally Inch
and Chloe Fisher have been advocating adequate draining of the breast as
often as possible and looking at positioning and attachment. They suggest
that antibiotics often work as powerful anti-infalmmatory agents rather as
anti-bacterials in the early stages, which is why mum gets better and we all
assume she need a'biotics.
So in this case Martha could the mother have fed often and/or expressed the
milk to "empty" the breast and maybe taken ibuprofen to lower temp and reduce
inflammation - and waited till the morning for A'biotics without harm?
If antibiotics are Rx less hopefully there will be fewer cases of thrush too.
Inch and Fisher - 1995 - Mastitis: infection or inflammation? Practitioner
239 472-476
(also reprinted in MIDIRS)
Wendy Jones
Breastfeeding Network Supporter Uk and Pharmacist
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:02:24 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-286)
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> Kathy Koch wrote:
> I just wish Oprah had said "breastfeeding"
> without the sneer in her voice...
>
So it was not my imagination. I was afraid I was too sensitive and did not dare
mention it. We have to work on this lady ;-)
Nicole
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:53:27 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barbara Kennedy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mother Baby Separation
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Thirty one years ago tonight I gave birth to our first child-a full term
healthy son. He was not brought me to nurse or even hold for over 24 hours.
Ask me if I still remember it!!! I had worked in that newborn nursery and
those nurses were supposed to be my friends. In spite of those hospital
routines, he still nursed for over a year.
Twenty two months later, in the same hospital, his sister went to my
breast while I was still on the delivery table after a Cesarean birth and
nursed beautifully, and for many, many months thereafter.
Who says assertive mothers can't make a difference? But unfortunately
mothers are still fighting the same battles or varieties thereof. United,
we can help with this on-going struggle of women everywhere..
Thank you, each one, for all you do to make this a better world.
Barbara Kennedy RN ICCE ICD CD(DONA) IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:31:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: introduction
Comments: To: Timothy Collins <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi, Mary Beth, and welcome to lactnet!
Re: your post-hysterectomy friend's breast question: I used to call this my
"breast period" after mine - and the main way I knew that my remaining piece
of ovary had pooped out was that they first became irregular & less
frequent, then mostly stopped. Started estrogen, & the swelling & tenderness
resumed, although with less "periodicity". Because her ovaries still
function, she gets the breast enlargement with the hormonal fluctuations,
which continue to carry on except they don't have a uterus to act upon any
more. Don't really know about the leaking business you described, but if she
only stopped nursing 2 yrs ago, I'd say it doesn't sound too wierd. Powerful
things, those breasts! A life of their own sometimes!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:10:11 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-288)
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Pat wrote and asked iff anyone used straight gentian violet on baby's
bottom for diaper rash caused by yeast. My sister used it for that
purpose, and why not?
Elaine Mazgelis, RD, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:08:20 -0400
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From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: school teachers pumping
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Belinda, La Leche's New Beginnings magazine had a column about teachers
working and nursing, with a question and 6 responses from mothers who have.
January-February 1999 volume 16 number 1
Pam Easterday
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:46:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Maurenne griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Federal Employee Nursing Moms Program
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Once again, my DH ( a federal employee) has sent an update on the US feds
program to help federal employees who are BF. My DH thought I had sicked my
lactivist friends on the people who write this newsletter ; )! I gently
replied to him that it's the federal employees that are speaking up about
their need for BF support from their employer, the US government, not us
lactivists. Glad to see moms speaking up for themselves in unison like
this.
Maurenne Griese, RNC, BSN, CCE, CBE
Birth and Breastfeeding Resources http://www.childbirth.org/bbfr
Pregnancy & Childbirth Contributing Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/pregnancy_childbirth
Manhattan, KS USA
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FEDweek
> The FREE Weekly Newsletter for Federal Employees
> Wednesday, May 26, 1999
> 7. What Makes a Good Nursing Mothers Program
> We had such a large number of requests for more details
> on nursing mothers programs that we're publishing what
> the Office of Personnel Management says are the key
> elements of successful ones:
>
> Space -- A room with at least two electrical outlets
> that is large enough to contain an end table, two chairs,
> a trashcan and a small refrigerator. One outlet for the
> breast pump, the other for the refrigerator. Privacy is
> imperative. There should be a sink for clean-up in the
> room or nearby.
>
> Breast Pump -- Many manufacturers make breast pumps.
> Beware of breast pumps labeled "personal use" which
> have low durability and are not sanitary for use as a
> multi-user unit. Some may wish to use their own units.
>
> Supplies -- Anti-bacterial soap (to clean equipment
> after use), paper towels, hooks to hang tubing to dry,
> a bulletin board.
>
> Security -- A combination door lock so that as the
> mothers change or on a quarterly basis, the combination
> can be changed. This ensures that only those in the
> program have access to the room.
>
> Room Point of Contact -- To handle the daily
> responsibilities such as cleaning, pump schedules, email,
> facility problems, etc. The POC would be responsible
> for new mothers indoctrination, supplies and other areas
> as necessary.
>
> 8. Breast Milk Program Contacts
> NSA's -- Jacki Kilian, phone: (410) 854-4657;
> Agriculture's Jackie Rodriguez, (703) 305-2692; OPM's
> DeShawn Shepard, (202) 606-4626; State's Judy Zarbo,
> RN, (202) 647-2546; Transportation's Wendy Leech/Suzette
> Paes, (202) 366-6389/4893, and Labor's Anne Bartels,
> (202) 219-6741, ext. 164.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:49:29 EDT
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University Hospital in Cleveland would get rid of visitors, undress mom and
baby, put them skin to skin with a warmer over both of them. Then leave them
alone as much as possible for at least 1 hour after birth. It was wonderful.
Ruth Solomon
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:19:20 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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In a message dated 5/27/99 12:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< As to the white tongue, some people claim that white tongue doesn't
indicate yeast overgrowth, but I believe that it does. It's just that
sometimes it doesn't bother baby nor mother's nipples. It is just a
low-level yeast imbalance, so it is not treated. (I do believe that it is
not optimal health, though, for one to have a white coating on her tongue.) >>
I agree, but even the peds I work with who are breastfeeding friendly don't
like to treat unless I have a mom with really sore nipples. I have moms swab
the baby's mouth with a Q-tip dipped in a mixture of 1 teaspoon of baking
soda to 1 cup of water several times per day till white tongue is gone. It
takes sometime but it changes the pH so the yeast can't strive. Saw a little
baby today that had a white tongue last week and was pink today after using
this for one week. This was a baby that I had wiped her tongue with cloth
wrapped around my finger and it did not remove the white at all.
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and private practice
Orlando, FL
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:16:59 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Daycare and Pumped Breast milk
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I am a hospital based LC in a large Pennsylvania Hospital. I had a call
today regarding a mother whose child may not be permitted to have pumped
breast milk in day care because the care providers consider the milk to be a
body fluid capable of transmitting HIV, Hepatitis, etc. There was a question
concerning whether gloves should be worn while giving the bottles and if the
bottles could be stored in a refrigerator with bottles of formula and other
food. Ridiculous, I know. I relayed information I had regarding the CDC
stating that gloves are not necessary for handling breast milk in addition to
my opinion that there is a much higher risk from changing diapers. I would
appreciate any references any of you may have that would make these people
feel more comfortable with this situation. I do not think finding another
day care is an option at this time. As usual, thanks in advance for your
help. Kathy Romberger, RNC, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:35:57 -0700
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From: Monique Schaefers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths
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Got to jump on this one.
When my son was born 2 years ago at 7 PM, my husband deposited him on my
belly and chest immediately after his birth. He latched on and nursed
like a champ right away. I, then dad, held him for the next 8 hours.
Sometime after the first two hours he was weighed. We let go of him
briefly for that but everything else happened while we held our son.
Dad asked if a nurse would show him how to sponge bathe the baby prior
to our discharge. This happened in our room, under the warmer, next to
my Labor/Delivery/Recovery bed so I could watch too. I think our son
was bathed about 2:30 in the AM. This happened at a hospital in
Portland, Oregon.
Now that we know *how* to bathe a newborn, we'll probably wait until we
get home in our own time to bathe our next baby. I never before really
gave it a thought about getting him bathed right away or waiting.
--
Monique
Noah Reilly Schaefers 6/18/97
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:11:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pushy, Pushing, Progress
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I'm back - after a long month in PICU, and a bout with pneumonia [and if I
owe you an email - etc and you don't hear from me by next week I HAVE lost
you somehow]
I can't help but comment on the "pushy" issue.
Some thoughts:
-You can't make everybody happy all the time.
-How you deliver information is about 75% of what determines whether
someone "accepts" the information.
My Job as a pediatrician is to educate people so they can make choices for
their children's health and wellbeing. It is not my job to make them
"comfortable" with a choice that is not in their child's best interest. I
cannot force someone to put their 4 year old in a booster seat, or to
refrain from smoking around their child any more than I can make someone
breastfeed their baby.
It is my job to care for their child the best I can, regardless of the
choices the parents have made. I can [and do] continue to educate parents
about all these issues - because there is still an opportunity for them to
make better choices at a future time.
I will support the parent's efforts, but I won't help justify a choice that
is not in their children's best interest "just because it is the choice a
parent has made".
That may qualify me as "pushy" - but I've found "pushing" leads to
"progress".
Gail (glad to be back after 8 weeks without Lactnet)
Gail S. Hertz, MD, IBCLC
Resident, Dept. of Pediatrics
PSGHS Children's Hospital
Hershey PA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:05 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: MARY BLACK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Separation of babies
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The effects of separating babies from mothers is enormous.=20
My 75 year old mother still remembers with great pain my brothers birth, =
youngest of four. After spending a pregnancy worrying about whether or not =
she had Down's syndrome (she was 40 at this stage) she got hypertension =
after the birth when they whipped the baby away for what turned out later =
to be some routine weighing and stuff. Despite her pleas, they kept =
reassuring her that he was just fine but did not let her see him.=20
So her blood pressure went through the roof she was so upset and angry, =
the drips started, her BP shot through the roof, they kept the baby away =
because of her blood pressure... and she then recalls my father finally =
breaking through the delivery room doors and immediately insisting she see =
the baby. Of course her blood pressure went down straight away. To this =
day when she gets mad about something her blood pressure goes up.=20
This story made me quite militant when doing obstetrics myself for a =
while, and when having my own babies, not to let mothers and babies be =
separated. But If I had not had two switched on parents who were prepared =
to fight the system, who knows what might have happened ... my mother =
getting a hypertensive fit and brain damage? A horror story around birth =
?=20
I think all of this stuff is like dropping a stone in water - the =
consequences of an event are like ripples and go on forever, even through =
generations.=20
We must keep sharing these different stories , because the actual =
practices vary much more than the text books, and the roots of explanations=
are often in dissecting the details and asking why and how did that =
happen.
Mary E Black
Australia
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:47:14 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: baby bathing
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I remember early memories of my sweet smelling breastfed babies not needing
daily baths to remain that way. I also remember my sister's formula fed
babies (especially the soy-fed baby) smelling very sour by the end of one
day. Maybe that is where the practice came from?
Debi Ciccarello RN CCE IBCLC missing the sweet smell of my babies tonight....
Columbus, GA
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:59:14 -0400
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From: Tim Hendrix <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bili levels and supplements
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I am about to start a Breastfeeding Task Force at our hospital, tomorrow
at 8am to be exact! Help!
This has been a frustrating week, once again. One of our neos who is
usually a little better with breastfeeding would not let a mother nurse
at all due to a bili of 8 at 16 hours of age and 10.5 at 20 hours of
age. The baby had to be under the lights at all times. This baby is
now 4 days old still in the hospital (bili is 16). Mom is at home,
coming in as often as possible. Yes, she is nursing, finally, but with
supplementation, of course.....grrrrrr. Luckily this baby is nursing
like a champ.
Today I went in to speak to a mom, who failed at BF with baby number one
and is off to the same start with this one. She was supplementing "to
be sure" the baby was getting enough. (This is the same route she took
with baby number one, at her Peds advice) In comes the ARNP from NICU,
who is looking after baby, since her Ped doesn't come to our hospital,
who firmly tells mom she HAS to continue to supplement since the bili is
9 (48hours of age)......grrrrr. She also made the comment that if she
doesn't follow that advice the baby will get sick and have to be
readmitted. Here I am, thinking I had made some lead way with this mom
and now she is SOOOO confused she has no clue who she should listen to.
Any advice to offer, especially from the Drs ( Nancy W., et al....) Can
we please clone you all??
Pam Hendrix, RN, IBCLC, ICCE in smokey S. Fla. (the everglades are
burning)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding Theme for computer
Comments: To: LACTIVIST POST <[log in to unmask]>
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http://www.themes-n-schemes.com/her.htm
The above url has a screen theme called Mother and Child that features
breastfeeding.
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:21:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pushy,Pushing, Progress
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Well said Gail! Glad you're feeling better and are back!
Jane Ciaramella
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:43:03 -0400
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From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: La Leche League
Subject: Oprah
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I did not get to see that show, as my kids were chanting in my ear
(birthday money burning holes in their pockets) and apparently I did not
program the VCR correctly. But I agree with the one post, that we need
to contact Oprah (www.oprah.com) and encourage her to do a show on LLL's
founding mothers, LLL, breastfeeding and/or lactation consultants. With
her interest in mothering/parenting, children and people who turn their
passions (today's show) into a career (I hated the profit angle) - these
are topics well worth encouraging her to do.
Certainly few of the other American talk shows are going to venture into
the area. Oprah has not fallen to the level of the others (IMHO, either
pure fluff or trash tv) and she just might do it.
And there is no denying, no matter how you personally feel about LLL,
those seven women certainly did something extremely powerful and
socially/culturally changing.
Leslie Ward
Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:45:31 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
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Hello All,
I know that many of the WIC client mothers I work with wind up
supplementing with ABM after returning to work because they can not
afford even a second-hand pump. Many of them scrimp and save to purchase
a "mini" pump making three or four payments to purchase it, and by 6
months pp have to supplement because the "mini" pump was not "enough"
pump. I have recently, however, become acquainted with the M***** Foot
Pedal Pump. This pump operates like their Hospital Grade pump, is
entirely safe to share or resale, given each mother has her own "kit"
(and WIC does provide the kit) The only drew-back is that the mother
must rock her foot on the pedal. (no electricity) They are however,
VERY effective, and easy to carry to work. Another benefit, mother does
not need electrical outlet, so has a wider possibility of pumping
locations. Laura Wright
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:58:25 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: La Leche League
Subject: Bathing babies
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Personally, I do not know what happened to any of my first three babies
as they were wisked away so fast, it was hard to realize, I'd even had a
baby. My last baby was born in Germany, in a German hospital (as opposed
to an American military hospital), she was given to me wrapped in a
receiving blanket immediately after birth. Perhaps they had wiped her
nose and mouth, but certainly not much more than that. And was washed,
obviously very gently, as it was right next to me and she never made a
peep, about an hour after she was born. Weighed and dressed and given
back to us for another 30 mins or so.
One of the reasons I can't watch A Baby Story on The Learning Channel is
the way they handle babies in most of the births. If I'd ever seen
someone handle one of my babies so roughly in the seconds after birth,
I'd come up off the table and start screaming lawsuit (and probably a
few choice nasty words). Of course the main reason I don't watch the
show is the epidurals and laboring flat in a bed - I've been forced to
do it twice and done it completely my way twice (although other than
number one, no anesthesia). I tell moms that my extemely wonderful,
floating on the top of the world, I can do anything feeling after an
undrugged delivery is the reason I recommend it, compared to my first
son where two weeks after delivery I still felt drugged out. I only
recommend that show to the moms I see, with a caution and usually only
if they've never had a baby, so they get some idea of what it's like.
Leslie Ward
Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:00:02 EDT
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sheehans
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Deborah:
Depends... was it full sheehan's has the pituitary totally shut down? was
it partial and is the pituitary function re established?
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:00:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Re: gentian violet
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Evonne:
I worked with a mother with chronic/systemic yeast problems and she
used gentian violet on the other body parts ofher children who had
overgrowths - i recall takingpictures of the total diaper area of her little
girl - before and after painting iwth g/v.
I have painted my son's feet during hockey season when he was playing
back to back tournaments.
Go for it.
Patricia
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:04:49 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lamaze Magazine response
Thought you might be interested in the response I got from Lamaze Magazine.
I sent the following email to Missey Moe-Cook in the Prenatal Education
department:
Hi, to all of you at Lamaze Magazine (Spanish and English versions). May I
first congratulate you on an excellent magazine and comment on what a great
help the information is, especially to Spanish-speaking mothers. The
increase in Spanish-language information is very helpful.
However, I would like to comment about your advertisement on the back of
"Informe Lamaze." could you come up with some other kind of free coupon or
sample to give mothers besides Playtex Bottles and Nipples? In a magazine
that promotes and supports breastfeeding as the gold standard around the
world, it does seem strange to include artificial feeding devices as part of
your free coupons and samples. Thank goodness it wasn't for free formula!
Far more time and money is saved by providing help with breastfeeding
success, if money is the issue here. And the health issues with breastmilk
in comparison with artificial baby milks are well-known. I suppose that the
mothers could use the Playtex bottles to feed their own milk, but that's not
the message this advertisement is sending to Spanish-speaking moms.
How about offering some free milk storage bags instead?
Just a suggestion.
Deanne Francis, BSN, LCCE, IBCLC
I received this response:
Thank you so much for your comments. Please understand we are 100%
supportive of breastfeeding, and all the ads in all the magazines that have
anything to do with bottles, nipples or pacifiers are always reviewed by
Lamaze International before being placed in the magazine. No ad goes into
the magazine that has not been approved/reviewed with the advertising
guidelines set up by Lamaze International. All of the wording is carefuly
reviewed and oftentimes rewritten to conform with their requirements.
Hopefully this answers your concerns about any ad seen in any of the
publications.
Missey Moe-Cook
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:23:56 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: HCI
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 (#1999-292)
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> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:43:03 -0400
> From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Oprah
>
> I did not get to see that show, as my kids were chanting in my ear
> (birthday money burning holes in their pockets) and apparently I did not
> program the VCR correctly. But I agree with the one post, that we need
> to contact Oprah (www.oprah.com) and encourage her to do a show on LLL's
> founding mothers, LLL, breastfeeding and/or lactation consultants. With
> her interest in mothering/parenting, children and people who turn their
> passions (today's show) into a career (I hated the profit angle) - these
> are topics well worth encouraging her to do.
>
> Certainly few of the other American talk shows are going to venture into
> the area. Oprah has not fallen to the level of the others (IMHO, either
> pure fluff or trash tv) and she just might do it.
>
> And there is no denying, no matter how you personally feel about LLL,
> those seven women certainly did something extremely powerful and
> socially/culturally changing.
>
> Leslie Ward
> Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:45:42 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Has anyone been involved with a Small Business Admin SBIR program?
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I've been looking into possible means of funding some breastfeeding
support research projects via non-academic means and came across
information about this SBA program which provides funding for research
to be done by small business entreprenuers.
Got my curiosity up, so I'd like to hear privately from anyone who might
have had some experience with this.
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:54:33 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pros and cons to breastpump rental station?
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Today has been a very eventful day for me!
I made up my mind, committed to going into private practice, and
registered my business with the county, got a home occupancy permit to
work out of my home, and printed 100 business cards.
So now I am officially the sole proprietor of
Of a Nurturing Nature: Educational and Support Services for the
Childbearing Family
I'll be providing lactation consultation, labor and post-partum doula
services, and possibly childbirth education classes.
Now I am trying to weigh the pros and cons of opening a breastpump
rental station in a community of about 40,000 with a population base
that is about 50% over the age of 50.
If you have had a rental station and are willing to share some counsel
to a novice in such things, please email me at
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Thanks in advance,
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:24:41 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: gentian violet
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>Pat wrote and asked iff anyone used straight gentian violet on baby's
>bottom for diaper rash caused by yeast. My sister used it for that
>purpose, and why not?
>
I used gentian violet on Neil's diaper rash when he was a baby. He broke out
in a rash the next day from head to toe. Assuming it was the gentian violet.
The twins had many applications in their mouth, way more than I would do
again, and seemed fine with it.
Patti C.
(aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:30:36 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Comments on various
Comments in response to several posts the last couple of days.
Re: Pumping in school.
You might check with Hollister since they have a corporate pump rental
program with a lot of information about the benefits to employers who
support breastfeeding in this way. Medela probably has one also.
Re: Starting premies on oral feeds with red nipples.
Not here we don't. (Level 3 NICU with 35 beds) Babies receiving breast
milk are started on skin to skin early (even on vents if they are stable)
and when the baby is ready to graduate from gavage feeds, the first oral
feed is a breast feeding, as well as every other oral feed for at least a
week if the mother is available. If we start bottles, we use regular
nipples (no premie nipples)
Re: Keeping babies warm.
Even our tiny premies stay warm if they have a hat on, and are put skin to
skin between the mother's breasts and both are covered with a warm blanket
or snuggly.
Re: Use of dilute NaHCO3 solution to swab mouth with thrush.
I would use caution, particularly if the baby is premature, when putting
bicarb in the baby's mouth or on nipples because of the potential for
interfering with the baby's sodium balance and the potential for creating a
metabolic alkalosis. We had a premie get into trouble on these two issues
and we nearly tore our hair trying to figure out what her problem was until
we discovered the mother had been swabbing her nipples with bicarbonate of
soda which was not washed off prior to nursing.
Re: Breastfeeding after a C/section: We encourage our mothers as part of
our prenatal breastfeeding class to breastfeed before their epidural wears
off if they have to have a cesarean. They are having no post op pain, and
if the baby is in good condition, breastfeeding usually goes at least as
well as it does following epidurals for vaginal births.
Enjoying the discussions. Thanks all for your great insights and comments
Deanne
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:30:13 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby Bathing
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The description of putting babies under the faucet for bathing reminded me
of when I was supervising nursing students in maternity. I oriented them by
saying that if I caught anyone bathing a baby like that(under the faucet)
they would be failed immediately, on the spot. My rationale: the practice
is dangerous and demeaning. Although it was tempting to do it (because the
nursery staff tell the students, "that's the way we do it in the real
world".), not one of the students ever bathed the baby that way(at least
that I saw). We had the mother's bath them and without any instructions,
but just some encouragement and answered questions if they asked. We
witnessed some of the most sensual baby baths I have ever seen--holding
massaging,talking sweetly, cuddling, never letting them cry or get cold. It
was wonderful!
Since then the hospital has gone through two changes: first they did away
with the bathing and now it has returned because of the issue of universal
precautions and HIV. I think this is a real issue of concern for nurses,
but rather than make mother' s feel that their babies are "dirty", why not
have mother's wash them. They could even bring in their own tub!
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 02:01:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps:
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Patricia,
1) I have seen numerous 'properly sealed' bottles leak. (also if a mom is
using milk storage bags they may get punctured)
2) Who knows what kind of particulates (spores, pollens, etc.) may be in the
'air' moving thru the tubing.
I really am uncomfortable with the idea of sharing pumps that store the EBM
in the same case as the motor. I have seen milk get into the tubing of the
pump with the silicon filter, and I have seen mothers use the other motor
without the hydrophobic filter because it "worked better" (the filter had
gotten wet and no longer allowed air thru -- the client [s] used the pump
without instead of replacing the filter).
Until I can see the motor of a 'personal use' pump of this sort after heavy
use, I will recommend to my clients that they err on the side of safety and
buy their own pump. If they cannot afford their own pump I will help them
make the used pump they decide to obtain as safe as possible. (again safer
than formula but not my first choice)
Sincerely,
Cheryl L Tompkins
(please forgive any typos - I burned 3 fingers on my right hand and am having
a difficult time finding the correct keys)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:24:01 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby bathing /warmers again
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The issue of mother versus an overhead warmer is old. I thought we solved
that issue a long time ago. Conduction(mother to baby contact) is a better
conductor of heat than convection(baby under radiant heater).
Johnson, NW. 1976. Breastfeeding at one hour of age. MCN.1(1):12-16
Britton, GR. 1980. Early mother-infant contact and infant temperature
stabilization. JOGN. M/A/:84-86.
Hill, ST. and Shronk, LK. 1978. the effect of early parent-infant contact
on newborn body temperature. JOGN. S/O:287-290.
Regarding daily bathing. I always told parents that their babies didn't
need to be bathed everyday, but that it was a fun ritual, a time for them
to look at their baby all over, to gently touch/massage, to kiss and
cuddle, and when they emerse them in warm water, a very relaxing soothing
time. I remember bath times not as a time of cleaning, but touch, voice,
and visual communication.
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:26:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: White tongue and baking soda
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I am concerned about using baking soda with an infant. Is there danger of
an overload of sodium?
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:28:22 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Chad & Kate McMurry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HELP! Positional Torticollis and suck problems
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I am beyond my experience and would like some guidance. Had a mother come
to LLL meeting whose baby was born with positional torticollis. I will give
the stats that I know and if you need any more feel free to ask.
Baby born via C-section after 2 days of pitocin 9# 13 oz.
Mother exclusively breastfeeding until 2 week check-up and ped. dr. was very
concerned that baby had not regained birth weight and was at 9# 3 oz.
Immediately sent mother to Lactation Consultant and baby was put on SNS with
formula and pumped BM. 1 week later, baby regained birth weight and LC did
a before and after nursing weight check and baby only took in 1 oz BM.
Mother told to give up on breastfeeding that she was not producing enough
milk and never would by LC and Ped. Dr. LC helped mother pick out nipple to
bottle feed baby. (I could just scream!!) Mother not ready to fully give
up and is pumping 8x/day. So, at this point neither Dr or LC checked baby's
suck only the positioning at the breast. Mother noticed that baby's jaw and
neck were not quite right and that milk would drip out of baby's mouth when
eating. Dr. sent baby to physical therapist who diagnosised baby's
torticollis. Physical therapist very supportative of BF and is giving the
mother exercises to try and help sucking as well as help with the positional
torticollis.
At this point baby is 4 weeks old and mother is hoping to breastfeed
exclusively. We talked about how baby was most likely only getting the
foremilk and not the hindmilk which is why he was not gaining weight, even
though he was having plenty of wet/dirty diapers. Baby appeared to be
latched on correctly, but was gumming the breast instead of sucking. Our
plan of attack is to get baby's sucking well and then work on building up
the mothers milk supply. My question (finally) is what recommendations do
you have for improving baby's suck in this situation? Also, if anyone knows
of a qualified LC who might be able to work with this mother in the
Vancouver, WA/Portland, OR vacinity. Hospital LC told mother that they do
not know how to deal with this problem and that most of their mothers are
not successful with BFing once they have started supplementing. I am
quite concerned with this situation as I usually refer mothers to the LC's
at the hospital when their BF problems are beyond what I can help them with
over the phone...I can't believe they told a mother that there was no way to
increase her milk supply at 3 weeks postpartum and to give up!!
Thank you for your help.
Barely controlling my frustration-
Kate McMurry LLLL
[log in to unmask]
"I would be most happy if my children grew up to be
the kind of people who think decorating consists of
building enough book shelves." -Anna Quindlen
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:59:17 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: carolyn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby bathing
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It seems obvious to me that evolution has had a hand in the different
attitudes.
In the U.K nurses and midwives have evolved so that they do not pick up
infections from mothers and babies.
In the U.S and some other parts of the world the staff are more at risk
because they have missed out on this evolutionary trait.
Simple really!
Unable to curb the sarcasm today because one of my cats is missing and I
am sooooo upset.
--
Carolyn Westcott RN IBCLC Southampton UK
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:10:23 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: anne bond <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: low milk supply
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This is the first time I have posted so I will quickly introduce myself. I
am an Australian LC and midwife currently on maternity leave having had my
first baby a month ago. I am thoroughly enjoying motherhood, breastfeeding
and the time I now have to keep up with Lactnet posts.
I am seeking your collective wisdom in regard to a near desperate situation
with a breastfeeding friend who seems to have tried it all for a low milk
supply.
Baby is 8 weeks old and current weight is 4170gms, birth weight was 3580gms.
It took baby 4 weeks to get back to her birth weight. Baby has had normal
growth in her length and head circumference. Baby is alert, has reasonable
urine output and bowel motions.
Mother currently breastfeeds every 2 hours during the day and every 3 - 4
hours over night. Baby feeds for 15 - 20 minutes on both breasts, and suck
swallow ratios indicate let down takes place.(Mother also feels let downs).
A pacifier and a baby sling has been used to give this family a break but
perhaps to the detriment of mother's milk supply. Baby has received
occasional formula supplement given via a supply line (nursing supplementer)
when no weight was gained. Mother has also expressed post breastfeeds using
an electric pump with duel collection units. Mother has had two episodes of
sore nipples but baby appears to have a good latch. It is this mother's
first baby and she had a normal birth, with complete placenta without drugs
at term and breastfed straight after the birth. Mother has no medical
illness and has not had any breast surgery. She did not increase her bra
size throughout her pregnancy and there has not been much areola enlargement
however she certainly experienced fullness when her milk came in. She is
currently taking Domperidone 10mg x 2 three times a day, Fennelgreek 500mg x
2 three times a day and St. Mary's Thistle 70mg x 2 three times a day. Today
she told me the baby has developed thrush around it's bottom which she is
treating with an antifungal. She will also treat herself as a preventative
measure.
This family has just about had enough and I don't know what else to suggest.
I am wondering whether baby has an underlying medical condition ( i.e.
urinary tract infection) which is compounding the problem. I would be
extremely grateful for any new ideas for this extremely motivated mother.
Anne Bond, RN, RM, IBCLC
Melbourne, Australia
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:34:11 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: low milk supply
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>Baby is 8 weeks old and current weight is 4170gms, birth weight was 3580gms.
>It took baby 4 weeks to get back to her birth weight. Baby has had normal
>growth in her length and head circumference. Baby is alert, has reasonable
>urine output and bowel motions.
Okay, so this is not great - but it works out at 600 g over four weeks, or
150 g a week. That is the lower end of normal in what is looked for here
(UK) and while it does not indicate a terrific milk supply, it is not a
desperately poor one, either.
The history of the situation - formula, pacifier, SNS - shows there has
been a lot of stress here and stuff which might have prevented everything
getting off to a good start - although there may have been good short-term
reasons why these were used.
>Mother currently breastfeeds every 2 hours during the day and every 3 - 4
>hours over night. Baby feeds for 15 - 20 minutes on both breasts, and suck
>swallow ratios indicate let down takes place.(Mother also feels let downs).
This may not be enough for *this mother* with *this baby* in *this
situation* to build up an optimal supply. I'm assuming she's not imposing a
schedule.
Can she give the baby lots of skin to skin? Co-sleep? Watch for cues so she
can feed more often, day and night?
>Today
>she told me the baby has developed thrush around it's bottom which she is
>treating with an antifungal. She will also treat herself as a preventative
>measure.
Could be significant if it it turns out to be oral as well.
>This family has just about had enough and I don't know what else to suggest.
>I am wondering whether baby has an underlying medical condition ( i.e.
>urinary tract infection) which is compounding the problem.
Possibly - though very poorly babies would not gain as much as this.
heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:00:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: away
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Hi all. I will be away from my computer for the next week or so. (Well, I
may have it if I can figure out how to make it run in Europe)...
If you have any questions, please write to
[log in to unmask] and one of our technical experts will
help you. Kathy Koch, Melissa Vickers, Karen Zeretzke, and Kathleen Auerbach
are here, although Kathy A. is very busy these days.
Thanks, and keep the discussion flowing!
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 06:46:53 -0500
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC needed
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If you know of an LC in Malmo, Sweden, please email me privately.
Thanks, JO
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:08:25 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ugh! radio program on breastfeeding
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Hi All,
I was hoping one of the other Brits would discuss this, as I didn't hear
the radio program myself, but I have to comment.
My mother phoned me up with what she considered some useful
"information", regarding breastfeeding, after hearing a phone-in program
on BBC Radio 4. Women were talking about their breastfeeding experiences
(which I *should* be happy about). However, from the report I received
from my mother, it does sound as if quite a few myths and untruths were
exchanged.
My mother said that a lady had phoned-in to say she had breastfed her
baby, but her nipples got covered in blisters. She couldn't cope, so was
going to put the baby on the bottle (this was about day 3). The midwife
did a home visit, and found her in this state and immediately took the
bottle teat off the bottle and placed it over the woman's nipple.
"Try it now," she said. The woman did and said it was totally
painless. Then the midwife told her to go out and get silicone nipple
shields ASAP, which she did. My mother was under the impression that
nipple shields were this miracle treatment for sore nipples that the
medical profession was keeping secret for some mysterious reason.
"Your sister could have used them when she got so sore with her first
baby" said my mother. <Groan>
My sister's problem had been good old fashioned positioning and was
fixed in 5 minutes when she actually held the baby properly. I cannot
imagine what harm nipple shields would have done in that situation.
We discussed several other issues, including the theory that fairheaded
women were more likely to have inverted nipples but my mother had at
least got the point that the "support" I am always saying is lacking, is
not about saying "Breast is best", but actually helping women with the
practicalities. Is it just me, or do others cringe when they hear
breastfeeding mothers perpetuating all kinds of myths?
Maybe someone heard the program and can give me an informed opinion.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:08:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ezzo victory and alternatives
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I am in need of recommendations for programs that include a religious
component as alternatives for Ezzo. ( I have a list, but do not have
information on individual programs.) Have any of you had experience with
some of the other programs, ones that may include classes or a self-directed
curriculum that would be good quality alternatives?
I had a small victory with one of my childbirth students. She had told me
that she was planning on using a parent-directed feeding plan with her baby.
I suggested that she might not be aware that this information was
controversial, and gave her all my anti-Ezzo materials. I also included
information on the ways in which babies develop, primarily on lactation and
the physiologic effects of being left to cry.
She came back to class and told me that she had not realized that the Ezzo
material was so controversial and extreme because she had attended the class
at their Church. She asked me for alternative parenting programs that have
a religious component. Of course I recommended Dr. Sears. Thankfully, this
mom and dad are willing to be open-minded and are willing to put in lots of
effort to learn. I would like to provide lots of resources in support of
their obvious commitment.
I learned a lot about reaching this family that I can use to reach others;
1) they did not know that Ezzo is so extreme and controversial because it
came from a trusted source and 2) if a family is willing to read and/or
attend the class, they are well-intentioned and willing to work at being
good parents. Capitalizing on their willingness to learn was crucial to
getting them to re-evaluate Babywise.
Joanne McCrory CBE AAHCC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:33:54 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Bath time
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Carol L'Esperance writes:
<< Regarding daily bathing. I always told parents that their babies didn't
need to be bathed everyday, but that it was a fun ritual, a time for them
to look at their baby all over, to gently touch/massage, to kiss and
cuddle, and when they emerse them in warm water, a very relaxing soothing
time. I remember bath times not as a time of cleaning, but touch, voice,
and visual communication. >>
In a book called "Parenting as a Spiritual Discipline," (Jewish Lights
Publishing, VT, 1997) which I highly recommend, the author, Nancy
Fuchs-Kreimer, talks about bath time in connection with forgiveness. For
parents it can be the objective correlative of the idea that their child, and
they, and their relationship, can be refreshed, made "like new," every day.
And I think all of us who have held, say, a three year old fresh out of the
tub can understand what she means. My kids are lucky if they get 2 or three
baths a week but I can see the attraction of a fixed daily time for winding
down, touching, and admiring your child -- with getting clean thrown in.
But newborns don't need to be "made new" -- not physically or in
metaphorical, relational terms -- they're new already!
Elisheva Urbas, NYC
disclaimer: I sometimes edit books for JLP, though I didn't have anything to
do with this one -- I wish I had, it's a lovely book.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:59:59 EDT
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Any Ideas would be appreciated to aid the latch of a 7 week old girl,
full term, 9lbs.,11oz, precipitous delivery after long pushing stage in
birthing certer, no epidural, transient tachypnea at 24 hours, transported to
NICU and given oxygen thru nasal cannula and suctioned (lightly?), no
intubation, kept 36 hours then sent home weighing 9 lbs., 1 oz. At that
point, baby refused to feed so mother pumped and fed pumped milk to baby with
syringe for 24 hours. Then baby began to show signs of wanting to nurse but
it was impossible to get baby to open wide for latch and baby insisted on
curling bottom lip in. No frenulum problems and palate normal. Mother tried
everyting I suggested to get baby to latch better. Extremely sore nipples.
Suck training ala Chele Marmet techniques did not help. Mother persisted
despite soreness and lack of stools. Plenty of wet diapers. Extremely
supportive ped said baby was healthy and well hydrated and to continue
nursing despite weight dropping to 8 lbs.1 oz at its lowest (on my digital
scale). At 16 days and no stool since meconium ped suggested 4 oz ABM in
bottle once a day. Mother used feeding device with 1 oz at 4 feeds instead.
Quickly went to 26 oz of ABM, mostly in lactation device with occasional
bottle and weight began to rise. Mother spent time talking with Jimmie Avery
about lactation device about what to expect. Baby began to feed constantly
and fall asleep at the breast shortly after latch (still shallow and with lip
curled in) and whenever mother attempted to detach baby would act hungry and
frantic. This would go on for most of day. Now getting about 20 oz of ABM
via lactation device, about 7 times a day and occasional bottle. (Mother
always pumped when a bottle was given.) This is down from a high of 28 oz. so
I interpret that to mean baby is getting more breast milk. Some good days,
many days bad. Baby can now open wide for latch but frequently won't unless
crying, weighs 10 lbs 15 oz, and mother fears she can't keep this up. Wonders
what it is doing to her relationship with baby to constantly put her on and
then take her off to try to get a better latch. Often mother puts up with
less than ideal latch rather than frustrate baby. I'm so impressed with this
mother's determination. Saw speech therapist Ann Toolajian last week and it
came out that mother has TMJ which Ann thinks baby has. (Plan to put question
about TMJ on my history form!) Did some cranio-sacral work and have joint
apt. with Ann and John Chappel, PT but not until next week.
First child, now 2, born after long labor with epidural, and vacuum
extration had horrible suck problem and mother pumped for several months so
baby (boy) only got pumped breast milk despite many trips to LC. Mother
atended LLL all through pregnancy and is really dedicated to getting
breastfeeding to work.
Mother, this week, developed a cystocele and is supposed to be doing
bladder retraining involving urinating every hour for a week, then every hour
and a half for the next week and then every 2 hours for the duration to avoid
infection. Seems to be controversy between docs over whether kegels will
help. Mother already feels there is no time in her day for her 2 year old
and newborn (who is nursing constantly) and now she has this added dilema.
Any suggestions to improve the latch that I haven't thought of?
TIA for your collective wisdom.
Gerri, IBCLC in central NJ
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:47:15 -0500
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [Fwd: twins/pump]
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Janna, hi, my name is Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC. I work exclusively with mothers
of multiples and have twins of my own. While I understand your clients doctors
concern regarding feeding both babies the same way, it is important to
understand that this problem is self limiting and will disapear as soon as the
baby has time to grow abit. There was a time when one of my twins was
exclusively breastfed and the other took only bottles. It's not fun, but it is
manageable and with work will resolve. Both of my twins went on to be
exclusively breastfed for an extended period of time. In my mind, I couldn't
reconsile removing breastfeeding from one child for no other reason than what
another child was doing. What a shame that would be. It did, however, provide
me with excellent motivation for working with my other twin until he to was
completely on the breast. If the mom is feeling overwhelmed by nursing,
pumping, and bottlefeeding, (very common among twin moms), suggest that she
worry about a full supply for both a little later and concentrate on her
success with the one twin and continue to attempt to nurse the other before
each bottle (every day will make a difference in this baby's oral abilities).
Even if he can not latch on at all, continue to make the attempt, along with
lot's of skin to skin contact. Is this baby's oral developement abnormal or
just premmie? I'd be happy to work further with you on this if you like.
Denny
[log in to unmask]
972/235-1086 (Texas)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:47:56 -0500
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Subject: [Fwd: twins and HELLP]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:13:13 -0500
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Subject: Re: twins and HELLP
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Liz, I'm so sorry about the difficult situation your friend has been going
through. Yes, of course, give her my info. Additionally, my phone# is
972/235-1086. ASAP have her get in touch with Judy Pyle at
[log in to unmask] She is the contact for the HELLP syndrome support
group for lay and professional people and is a terrific source of information
as well as support and encouragement. She will find MANY other moms there who
have gone through just what she has. Also, if she considers having more
children at sometime, there is essential info there for her. If she agrees,
please forward her info to me. The oral defensiveness you described is very
common in very premature infants due to the extremely aggressive treatments
needed to ensure their survival. At the time, future feeding difficulties seem
like a blessing, considering many will be fortunate to have a baby to feed at
all. This situation is best handled with the help of a really good OT
(occupational therapist). I imagine your friend already has her kids seeing
one, as well as a PT (physical therapist). If not, they need to get on this
ASAP for the best long term benefits and advantages. She may already expect
for her twins to need help with these areas as well as others, like speech
therapy. How many weeks was she when she delivered? My brother has a special
needs child who also was very orally defensive. They have lot's of info on
special services and internet support services. If your friend is interested,
I can put them in contact as well.
Best wishes to your friend and also to you for your new career as an IBCLC.
Welcome!
Denny
Liz Brooks wrote:
>
> Denny -- I am a fledgling IBCLC just outside Phila.
>
> Your Lactnet post really stood out for me -- a friend (whom I don't see
> often enough)is home with her now-10-month old twin boys who were born
> very prematurely after her own near-fatal HELLP experience.
>
> The littlest guy weighs just ten pounds; born at just over 1.0 I think,
> and has been diagnosed with failure to thrive (along with dozens of other
> maladies, poor guy). Mom was just lamenting to me in an e-mail (the way
> we seem to communicate best these days) about their troubles getting him
> to eat -- aggravated by the fact that he has an aversion to having
> anything placed in his mouth; no doubt a result of those assaultive (my
> term) first months in the NICU. She had tremendous BF support in the
> hospital and after discharge. Pumped like mad; had great volume. I don't
> know how much bmilk her sons are getting at this point -- if any at all.
>
> Anyway -- she wondered if I had any clever ideas for getting this little
> guy to put on some weight. I was stumped as I read her e-mail -- went on
> to Lactnet for "a fix" -- and there was your post.
>
> Do you have any clever ideas? Would you be willing to have me share your
> e-mail address with her, so she could give you a better picture of her
> situation? She is not an IBCLC -- not a Lactnet subscriber -- just a
> frazzled working mom with twins!
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
>
> ===
> Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:03:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
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Kate, how terribly frustrating for you and that poor mom! Shame on the lazy
attitudes that she has encountered. I have had success previously with adding
an OT (occupational therapist) to the support group. Have mom try positioning
the baby as follows, sit baby upright, legs in front, facing the breast.
Gently support the back of the head with opposite hand and support the breast
to the appropriate height with the other. At first mom may have to lean
forward a bit, if the baby is still pretty floppy. Wish I could draw you a
picture!
Keep trying, I'm confident that this mom can successfully bf this baby, in
spite of the LC help she got!
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:08:01 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: supply
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Anne, welcome and congratulations on your new baby!
Please consider a sweat test for CF on this baby.
Sincerely,
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:41:50 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ugh! radio program on breastfeeding
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It was Radio 4's Woman's Hour, Anna, and I heard it.
Not as mad or bad as your mum said!
Did not hear it all, though, as I must have missed the bit about bottle teats.
The experiece of the fair haired woman was that someone had seen her at a
party and said (erroneously, of course) she'd be bound to have problems
breastfeeding...but in fact the ensuing discussion revolved around the fair
woman's inverted nipples. The party guest told the woman with inv. nipples
that her husband should suck them out to help them stand out before the
baby comes...she did this, it worked, and bf went fine.
Well, said the presenter, that could be a useful tip for some.
(of course, I know it wasn't evaluated in the famous MAIN trial : ))
The writer of the letter said, it's not something that everyone would feel
able to suggest to women, and she said it could be in a leaflet instead.
Well, only if it's been evaluated, though...a survey where n=1 needs some
further replicating...but with 'normal' ie non-adhesions inverted nipples,
it would have nothing but pleasurable side effects if the couple were happy
about it : )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:24:34 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Apologies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dear Lactnetters,
I have to apologize for double messages (Oprah related) which have crept in last
night originating from my computer. In isolating these messages for printing, they
somehow got sent to the mailing list. I cannot understand how it happened but I will
find out another way to print.
Sincerely,
Nicole Bernshaw
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:29:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: reaction to fluconazole
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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i have a client who is sensitive to everything, and is having the
diarrhea/nausea reaction to the initial dose of fluconazole. has anyone seen
these symptoms improve while taking this? she is quite motivated to continue
treatment, but is feeling dizzy and weak along with it, and is reluctant to
continue if it is not going to improve. i am also assuming that the other
azole drugs might have the same effect on her. she has already used nystatin
and gentian violet without success.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:26:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ezzo
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I just received this in the mail from a local church:
"Growing kids gods way guideline (we're happy for your interest!)
1. Faithful attendance at the 18 sessions is expected. (Please miss no
more than 3 sessions.) Sessions are scheduled for Wednesdays, 6:45-8:15pm
from June 2 through Sept 1. In addition the class will need to agree on a
weeknight or weekend time for 4 other sessions, when you will need to
arrange your own childcare.
2. Please pay $20.00 per person for your notebook. (Two notebookds
required per couple.) Please make out checks payable to the church. This
is your only charge for this course.
3. Please pick up your young children Wednesdays at 8:15 pm so that our
volunteer church staff are not detained. (if the class goes past 8:15 you
or your spouse will need to get your child.)
4. Do all reading and written homework. Be ready to discuss in class.
5. Honor the following requests:
a. Avoid disagreeing with the presentation during class or discussion
sessions. This can discourage others. (Discuss any problem one on one with
group leader)
b. In order to avoid offending others it is suggested that you do not
share the informationwith others not in the class unless they initiate
questions. (Parenting is controversial) If they see the behavior of your
children improve they may initiate questions. The, you have an open door
and can feel free to share."
I thought I would share this with you.
Jane Squires
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:45:04 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: baking soda treatment is obsolete
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I believe that Dr. Lawrence voiced a concern regarding this issue in the
1989 edition of her book.
I only have the 94 and 99 ed. here in the office. As a result of that,
La Leche League revised their suggestions for the treatment of thrush.
The BAB states "using clear water" to rinse the nipples after a feeding.
Some practitioners recommend a vinegar rinse of the nipples after
feedings; but not the infants mouth.
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC, APL
Romeoville, IL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:39:32 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dublin LC Needed
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Can someone please email me any IBCLCs etc in Dublin Ireland? Email
privately please.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:58:47 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fluconazole
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Carrol, I have seen this reaction in several moms, particularly if they
received a loading dose. In each case, the n/v and diarrhea resolved after a
few days, no treatment necessary.
Denny
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:51:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: newborn weight
MIME-Version: 1.0
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An LC friend and I were talking about the often-stated idea that babies
whose mothers have had IVs in labor may have an inflated birthweight, thus
making the subsequent weight loss sound worse than it really is. We were
wondering if this was just a theory or if it had been validated by research.
Does anyone know of any research data on this? If not, it sounds like a good
avenue for research. Miriam
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:18:12 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HELP! Positional torticollis
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi Kate,
(sorry about the spelling) I am afraid I don't know about the specifics
of this situation, but I related to this part:
>I can't believe they told a mother that there was no way to
>increase her milk supply at 3 weeks postpartum and to give up!!
>Thank you for your help.
Why, why, why do people advise women to give up breastfeeding because
they cannot breastfeed exclusively? Not that I think supplementing with
formula should be anything less than a last resort, but *even* if the
doctor recommends ("orders") formula supplementation, why is it I so
often come across women who've been told to *give up*. Surely, it's up
to the mother to decide if she wants to give up entirely?
From supporting a mother in an attempt to relactate, I have seen how
some HCPs despised her 2oz yields and considered it worthless to her
baby. And yet, those 2oz made such a huge difference to her FTT baby.
She was very educated, and a somewhat exceptional mother, but I really
believe that many more mothers would be prepared to continue
breastfeeding and/or pumping, even if only partially, if they realised
just how much difference a little breastmilk can make.
And ofcourse, as your story illustrates, yields often can be improved
and babies often can be got back to the breast. It just seems that
outside our little group of Lactnetters, the world at large is very
pessimistic about breastfeeding and under-values breastmilk. When I was
supporting the mother relactating, I tried to find research and studies
to support her and my view that a little breastmilk was a lot better
than none, but I didn't find much. Is it just not there, or are we
mistaken? I can't honestly believe we are.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: JUNO
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just a note...there are big problems with JUNO. Anyone you know who has JUNO
may not be rec'ing Lactnet due to a problem with their server.
Please refer those friends on JUNO to Juno sysops for further help. There is
nothing we can do about it on our end.
Thanks. Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:42:34 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sister Miriam Bauerlin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: INTRODUCTION
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Although I have been an off and on Lactnet subscriber for several years,
I was a lurker (I think thats what is meant by a person who just reads
but doesnt get really involved.) I need some help and I thought of
Lactnetters as a solution. My name is Miriam Bauerlin. I am a Sister of
St. Francis, an IBCLC since 1995 and I live in Maryland, and my work is
mainly with young low-income pregnant women. A group of us have formed
a corporation and are applying for an IRS # (?) so we can apply for
grants. In the meantime, our group finds itself wantint to keep goo
documentation. Herein lies the problem...When I was at BocaRaton for
the ILCA Conf. there was a vendor for computer software specifically for
Lactation Consultants. I cannot locate the Name or telephome # in order
to contact them. Can anyone help me? It just dawned on me ..it is the
beginning of a holiday week-end. But..Sincerely, Sr. Miriam
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:12:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: If you could
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I am updating a course for nurses. What would you like to see under the
heading WORKING WITH A LACTATION CONSULTANT?
In other words what would you like nurses to know about working with you as
an LC? How can they make your job better (Other than not pushing ABM and
pacifiers)?
Please respond off list.
Thanks
Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:26:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: bathing newborns
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My fourth (and last!) baby was born at home and my midwife advised me not to
bathe her for around two weeks. She smelled wonderful! The vernix was
massaged into her skin and she never had any skin problems.
As an interesting side note, about 5 days pp, two of my friends came over and
each held the baby. My baby then smelled like their perfumes, and it was
deeply disturbing to me - I felt like a mother cat. It's interesting how
seemingly unimportant things can have such an impact on early
mothering/breastfeeding.
Kim Sherwood, LLLL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:33:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: scheduled feedings
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In a message dated 5/27/99 7:32:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I was saying that animals (thinking of primates) nurse their young on
demand and she replied that that wasn't true of all species - pigs,
apparently, nurse their young when it's convenient for them and have
conscious control of their letdown. If a mother pig is worried or
frightened, she can actually refuse to nurse her young altogether, and
even if they can get to latch on, they get no milk without her consent.
So there you have it. Scheduled feeding is natural - for a pig! >>
Humans do that too - it can be hard to get a letdown under certain stressful
situations. All mammals are like that - it is no time to lie down and nurse
if a bear is about to make you his lunch! The pig is not thinking, "hmmm, I
should really get those piglets on a schedule..." she is just following her
survival instincts!
Kim Sherwood, LLLL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:11:29 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bratt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bathing babies
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In Baltimore, Maryland, it was common practice in the seventies, in the
hospitals, to take the baby away from the mother and bathe the poor
creature at once. Happened to our second, despite her mother's objections.
Have to confess that as, chief resident in Pediatrics, I "sided' with the
nurse.
But Katherine, how can you call that part, the "dirty" part? As well as
all those lovely germs that you want the mother and baby to develop
immunity to!
David, Trini ped.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:15:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Interesting GAO report
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Check out this interesting GAO (US Govt) report I found. Particularly
interesting is the section on "key characteristics of the US infant formula
market".
http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=gao&docid=f:rc98146.txt
Katie Allison Granju
Knoxville, TN
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:32:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: URGENT! Please help with "Cows Udderly Agree" Promo!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I had a call from Chik-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
saying
that you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows Udderly
Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFAs willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent a list of benefits of breastfeeding to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps locales can organize a certain day to meet and eat at CFA, alert
the media, and promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
It is time to educate the nation just how important breastmilk is for
our children. This is a positive way to get our message across. I have
no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
Will someone alert Larry Gardner, Ruth Lawrence, your breastfeeding
products compan(ies), LLL, and others -- come on guys -- post your
ideas! (I have e-mailed Richard Weston @ Medela already).
Kathleen, I want to repeat this post several times, but the only way I
know is to "forward" it and have a double header. Please tell me how to
do it differently so I don't have to type out each message, if the
"forward" idea won't fly.
Thanks,
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:28:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ezzo instructions to parents
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"5. Honor the following requests:
a. Avoid disagreeing with the presentation during class or discussion
sessions. This can discourage others. (Discuss any problem one on one with
group leader)
b. In order to avoid offending others it is suggested that you do not
share the informationwith others not in the class unless they initiate
questions. (Parenting is controversial) If they see the behavior of your
children improve they may initiate questions. The, you have an open door
and can feel free to share."
YIKES!!! Never mind the content of the classes, I'd run the opposite
direction, as fast as my stubby little legs could carry me, from ANY class
that asked me not to disagree with the presentation and not to share the
information with others!
Am I abnormally cranky, or is this not a HUGE red flag to *anybody*
considering the class? And if you truly believed that "god" has "a way" s/he
wants you to raise your children, wouldn't you want to shout it from the
rooftops? "...to avoid offending others", my foot!
This is really scary to me - it smacks of strange cult behaviour, not to
mention sounding deeply paranoid. Seriously, have I just become so
cantankerous and curmudgeonly that I'm making a big deal out of nothing
much?
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:27:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC in Mountain View CA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
I need the name of a board certified LC in or near Mountain View California. It is near Palo Alto.
TIA
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>mailto:[log in to unmask]</color>
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:48:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Urgent! "Cows Udderly Agree" Promo Needs YOU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I had a call from Chick-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
sayingthat you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows
Udderly
Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFA's willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent a list of benefits of breastfeeding to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps locales can organize a certain day during WBW to meet and eat at
CFA, alert the media, and promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
It is time to educate the nation just how important breastmilk is for
our children. This is a positive way to get our message across. I have
no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
I give my permission for this post to be printed, faxed, forwarded
electronically, read, quoted, etc. for the purpose described above.
Let's get going!
Thanks, ALL, for your help!
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:46:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pedal pump
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Glad you mentioned the Pedal Pump. When I was was at WIC, I purchased
several of these, thinking they would be a really excellent solution to the
problem of never having enough electric pumps to meet the need. I found that
most moms didn't really like using the pedal pump; not sure why. Some said
it took "coordination", some just plain didn't like it. Which I thought was
a shame, because it really seems like a good idea. Maybe there was some
sense that it wasn't "as good as" the heavy-duty electric pumps, or that
they were being foisted off with second-best.
Have others of you out there had better luck with this pump? It really does
seem like a nifty gadget to me!
Cathy Bargar RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:38:15 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jamie Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tongue thrusting
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In addition to neonatal tongue thrusting, there's acquired tongue thrusting, in
which the tongue pushes forward from the alveolar ridge to the teeth during a
swallow. It's associated with long-term use of artificial nipples, and it's
also linked to speech problems (particularly distortions of /s, z, sh, zh/).
When I was working as a speech pathologist, we would get occasional referrals
for swallowing therapy from orthodontists, who had told parents that there was
not much point in shelling out big bucks to correct an overbite if a kid was
going to be pushing the teeth forward with his tongue 2000 times a day. There
are appliances which aim to keep the tongue back, but the orthodontists we
worked with didn't seem to have much faith in them.
Everything I know about acquired tongue thrusting I learned on the job, so I
don't have references. But there's a FL speech pathologist named Daniel
Garliner who has written a lot about it, if anyone is interested.
Yet another way breastfeeding saves money--this time ten or twelve years down
the line.
Jamie Smith (CCC-SLP)
LLLL in Edinburgh
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:21:54 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jamie Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Christian support for attachment parenting
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One option for Christian families (particularly Catholics) looking for support
for attachment parenting (or anti-Ezzo ammunition) is the Couple to Couple
League. They publish _Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing_, which includes
lots of good mothering advice as well as info on breastfeeding amenorrhea.
Sheila Kippley, the author, is (or at least was) an LLLL, and her book reflects
LLL philosophy. In addition, CCL has a newsletter which always includes
articles on breastfeeding and on attachment parenting. Within the past year
the newsletter ran two lengthy articles on why the Ezzo approach is bad for
breastfeeding and certainly not intrinsically Christian.
One caveat: CCL's primary function is to teach natural family planning. It
was founded by Catholics with very clear beliefs about sexual morality and
related issues (like abortion). After following the Tabitha Walrond thread, I
am guessing that some of you might be personally uncomfortable with their
points of view; just wanted to be clear about what they stand for besides
attachment parenting. They're at www.ccli.org.
Jamie Smith
LLLL in Edinburgh
and CCL NFP teacher
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:05:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths
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I'm trying to catch on on posts hopefully being on call this weekend will
allow me to do so.
Anyway I feel the reason for the baby bath is becasue as said the risks of
contacting body fliuds. This may be HIV, Hep B, HepC etc.
We have begun delaying the bath here for bonding/ feeding purposes. That was
the idea of some "pushing pro-breastfeeding ped on staff. :-)
BTW that guy even did his own baby's bath 2 months ago.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:10:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths (non BF)
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That last post reminded me of my first son's newborn bath.
Weeks prior to his delivery I had told the L&D nurses not to bath him b/c my
wife wanted to. I was joking but they took me seriously.
While my wife has in labor I came down with food poisoning so about 1 hour
post delivery I crawled off with some Tigan to sleep. When I rejoined them
Deb was getting back from the bath room and Ryan was in an isollette. She
explained he just had a bath.
The nurse thought she wanted to do the bath and Deb then thought it was
routine for the mom to do it! Everybody was happy.
(I was too after 2 liters of IV fluid)
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:22:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Your help is needed for "Cows Udderly Agree" promo
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I had a call from Chick-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
sayingthat you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows
Udderly Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at
CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFA's willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent CFA a list of benefits of breastfeeding
to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps breastfeeding advocates at various locales can organize a
certain day during WBW to meet and eat at CFA, alert the media, and
promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
Of course, if you commit to any of the above methods of support, please
follow through! Who knows where this could lead next year? Maybe a
breastfeeding ad on their paper sacks?! :) It is time to educate the
nation just how important breastmilk is for our children.
I have no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
I give my permission for this post to be printed, faxed, forwarded
electronically, read, quoted, etc. for the purpose described above.
Let's get going!
Thanks, ALL, for your help!
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:39:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Patty Shoults Rn, Ibclc" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 26 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-282)
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I am looking for an update on the bill which requires employers to provide
lactating women time to pump thier milk. I assume this is Federal. Are there
limitations on the size of the employer group or are all employers effected?
I wanted to make local employers aware of this to increase breastfeeding
awareness. Thanks Patty IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:53:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sharing Pumps
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Here is a good example of why it is NOT a good idea to lend pumps to friends:
This week I had a call from a woman who was given a PIS by a friend. After
her second attempt, she called to tell me her nipple "ballooned." I asked
her what the pump was set on and she seemed confused. She did not even
realize it had a pressure setting. Of course it was set on high. My next
question was, "How long did you pump?" 45 minutes!!!!!!! She said that was
what her friend had told her to do and there was no information with the
pump. Ouch!! I just hope that she hasn't caused damage to her nipple which
will affect breastfeeding.
Just my thougts
Linda Goldberg, RN, CCE, aspiring LC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:18:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - IVs and birthweight
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In a message dated 5/28/99 4:40:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< often-stated idea that babies
whose mothers have had IVs in labor may have an inflated birthweight, thus
making the subsequent weight loss sound worse than it really is. >>
I think I read this in Henci Goer's "Obstetric Myths vs Research Realities"
my copy is lent out or I'd check. If anyone has any other concrete
references I'd appreciate a copy by private email since my lactnet reading is
sporadic at best these days.
Elaine Ziska
Jackson, MS
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:40:06 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chik-Fil-A
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I sent a brief email to Chik-Fil-A, along with complimenting/thanking them
for hiring the handicapped -- we have a good friend who is a young woman
with Down Syndrome who has worked for Chik-Fil-A since she was 16. It is a
good job for her. I got a very nice personalized note back. Chik-Fil-A is
not open on Sundays (corporate policy, so the employees can go to church) --
if this is important to you, mention it, so they really will think we know
about and like Chik-Fil-A, not just are obsessed with breastfeeding.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:04:10 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kate Hallberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Site in Italian
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http://space.tin.it/salute/jjmil/ is a site with some
of our favorite articles translated into Italian by a
parent-l mom! I'm so impressed that she did this, and
I encourage all of you to keep her and the site in
mind if you need it. I'll be studying it for my next
trip to Italy.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:37:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: yeast and resistance to fluconazoloe
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Hi everyone. I am struggling with a mom of 2 week old twins.
She came to me with shooting pains in her back and shoulders,
burning/stinging between feedings, and tearfulness while nursing.
Seemed like a no-brainer. She also has battled yeast for years, had at
one point been on 200mg fluconazole daily for 6 months ( yes, months!)
Anyway, c-sx, got abx, probably got yeast. I have prescriptive
privileges and got info. together to discuss with her ob about treating
he for ductal candidiasis - he had never heard of using diflucan in a
400mg X 1 then 200 mg for up to 4 weeks dose as is suggested in Hale but
agreed to "agree" if I would prescribe it. So I did. And oral nystatin
for the babies. And all purpose nipple ointment (mycolog/bactroban) for
mom's nipples. Things got slightly better for about a week - now are
horrendous and she has a vaginal yeast infection, and signs of ductal
candidiasis. She went to her ob/gyn today who said she'd never heard of
anyone being "resistant" to diflucan, and that if diflucan wasn't making
her breast pain go away, then it wasn't yeast. And then went on to give
a vaginal yeast cream (?Terconazole?) I'm not sure what to do next.
What would you do? thanks....janna zempsky, cpnp, ibclc in w. hartford,
ct.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:43:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: reaction to fluconazole
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<< i have a client who is sensitive to everything, and is having the
diarrhea/nausea reaction to the initial dose of fluconazole. has anyone seen
these symptoms improve while taking this? >>
Dr. Crook's book THE YEAST CONNECTION AND THE WOMAN talks about when yeast is
dying it gives off toxins that can make you sick on your stomach and feel
like the flu. This maybe why some have these side effects. Stomach cramps
and nausea and diarrhea are known side effects of diflucan. If the side
effects are due to the yeast dying, then the side effects will lessen over
time due to less and less yeast left to kill.
I've not have mothers become sick on diflucan, but have had some reports of
baby's being quiet upset or fussy when on diflucan for thrush.
Warmly,
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and private practice
Orando
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:47:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pushy BFing people
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Why are we being "pushy, or zealots or radicals" when we advocate for BFing
but the American Cancer Society is seen as being educational when they have a
" World Without Tobacco Day"? Why don't we have a "World Without
Artificial Baby Milk " day?
Seriously, I get tired of being the "different" one in the bunch because I am
the one who voices objections to things like ABM companies having booths at
the Maternity Fair ( their invitation was taken back and they were told that
the committee had a complaint but the rep still sent door prizes and videos
which was used).
On a related note, I had a call this afternoon from a FNP at the big Peds
group ( with the embolism Ped) who called to see what I do. He said that
they had tried to call the Lactation Specialist at the hospital but couldn't
get her so they decided to call me. ( you know, the IBCLC is second choice).
They had a referral. The Mom delivered 6 days ago, and when I asked her what
Meds she was given during labor and delivery she said nothing except the IV.
I then asked what was in the IV. She said, Mag, Pitocin, and also had an
epidural and demerol. Baby was taken away because he was "shaking" and given
glucose in bottles and wasn't brought to her until he was 12 hrs old. He
never nursed and is now 6 days old. Her milk hasn't come in and she wants to
BF. She has pumped once or twice a day with the small battery/electric pump
from the toy store. She never saw anyone at the hospital who offered to help
her BF.
And this is the hospital who wants to apply for Baby Friendly status.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
(now that I have a BS do I add that to my IBCLC, and if so, before or after?)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: John McCulloch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baby bathing one more time
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Hello everyone,
I understand that a newborn does not need or require a bath while in the
hospital. At our hospital, I know that "the bath" is one thing on a long
list of required things for the nurses to do before the baby is discharged.
I honestly don't know of any mom requesting that her baby not get "the
bath." I guess we all have it so ingrained that the bath is good for the
baby. I appreciate the knowledge you all have to share and thank you for
inspiring me to think on this subject.
I remember my son, especially, hated his bath until he was about a month old
or so. I wonder if this could be related to the circumcision? I will say,
however, that once my children were a few months old it seemed that bath
time was a very enjoyable time for both of us. It seemed to calm them and
provided a great time to do some baby massage. Also, even though they were
all breastfed and not sick often, when they were not feeling well, the bath
seemed to help them relax a bit and seemed to help them fall asleep more
peacefully. Maybe it was the Chamomile I used in the bath. Who knows?
Anyway, for whatever reason, I admit I am one of those moms who gives the
baby a bath every day. It just seems like little babies get so dirty
getting into things all day. Once they start to eat solid food too they got
so messy that we threatened to just take them outside and hose them down.
That is a joke, but seriously, they did get awfully messy! As they get
older, say 4 or 5, we switched to bathing every other day. Luckily, their
eating habits had improved by then!
Again, thanks for all the interesting discussion.
Lori McCulloch
WIC Breastfeeding Coordinator and Peer Counselor
[log in to unmask]
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-290)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:05:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: request
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This was posted several weeks ago but I would like to repeat for those new to
the group. Please add your location to your signature line, and maybe your
job affiliation so we can get an idea of who is doing what where.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:15:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Contacting Chick-fil-A
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I have had a few e-mails from folks who said they had trouble getting to
the Chick-fil-A site from the address on my posts. I'm not sure why,
because I have tried it 3 or 4 times over the last 2 days, and just did
so successfully again. Perhaps they are getting so many hits that some
are being blocked? Let's hope! However, to shorten the e-mail address
a bit, try
http://www.chick-fil-a.com
and work through the menu to get to the feedback/comment page.
Also, a couple of you are not familiar with CFA -- too bad! They have a
*wonderful* fried or grilled chicken sandwich, chicken salad, soup,
lemonade, brownies, sweet tea, etc. They are often located in malls,
but have fairly recently opened separate restaurants of the fast-food
variety.
The owner, Mr. Cathy is an elderly gentleman who is a strong supporter
of families and children. The headquarters is based in Atlanta, GA.
Even if there is not a restaurant near you, you may be able to order a
T-shirt just by e-mailing a request for their catalog -- assuming they
make the shirt and put it in it!
They started a very delightful ad campaign a few years ago featuring
cows which encourage us to "Eat mor chikin", which have stated that "5
out of 5 cows agree" that chicken is good or healthful, or something
like that. There have been quite a few cute slogans, and roadside
billboards being "painted" by a cow which is standing on the back of
another cow (one of my favorites).
To answer another question, the "Cows udderly agree" is not one they
have used, but one I came up with and have offered to them for World
Breastfeeding Week and this whole endeavor. BTW, I am not trying to say
"utterly", but "udderly", (someone had a question about the slogan, with
the "correct" spelling of "utterly" -- which is *incorrect* for this
campaign.....oh you get the idea !
I will post the promo a few times a day, to alert those who have been
"unsubscribed". Again, please print, attach, fax, distribute, etc. with
my permission and blessings.
Oh, yes....one more thing. I do not own stock in CFA, nor have I met or
am related to any employee (that I am aware of)! If the Taco Bell
Chihuahua were not a male, who knows? We might be writing Taco Bell
instead.....but those cows are sooooo funny!
Let's keep this going over the holiday weekend as best we can, but
really in earnest next week.
By working together, we can pull this off.........otherwise, we could be
waiting til the cows come home for another opportunity of this type.
In other words, we should milk this for all its worth. ;)
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:20:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thanks, Kathy D.
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Kathy, that was good advice you posted. Thanks for contacting
Chick-fil-A and for the suggestions.
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:21 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Stearns, Crystal" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mom with impaired immunity
Comments: To: "LACTNET (E-mail)" <[log in to unmask]>
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Good Morning,
I do Mental Health with the Red Cross and Coordinate Critical Incident
Stress management for my hospital and the Southeast part of the state of
Oklahoma. Your patient sounds like she maybe dealing with stress induced
immune problems. This is very common in people who have or are dealing with
major stress in theirs lives, i.e. new baby, moving. I saw a lot of this in
the firefighters after the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995. She may need to
increase her vitamin C and B complex vitamins. I would be glad to fax or
mail you a pamphlet on nutrition, that we give out during a critical
incident debriefing.
Hope this helps
Crystal Stearns RNC, MS, IBCLC
Mercy Memorial Health Center
Ardmore, OK 73401
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori C. Salisbury [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:31 PM
> Subject: Mom with impaired immunity
>
> Lactnetters,
> I got a call yesterday from a mom breastfeeding her baby who is almost 6
> months old. She states these past few months she has had several bouts of
> sickness (colds, flu) lasting 2 - 3 weeks each. States she is usually a
> very healthy person. States her husband is encouraging her to stop
> nursing
> because he thinks the breastfeeding is "taking her immunities". I
> explored
> other possible reasons for her being more sick, and she agreed that she
> has
> been under several "life changes" recently. In the past year she has
> moved,
> changed jobs, and had a baby, who is now in daycare while she works.
> My general suggestions were for her to continue breastfeeding, and that
> the
> more likely cause for her increase in illness is more likely due to her
> stress factors/life changes, plus being exposed to the germs her daughter
> is
> getting in daycare. She said that her daughter has had a couple colds and
> a
> couple ear infections - states neither were bad. I emphasized that her
> daughter likely would have had more illnesses and been sicker with the
> ones
> she had if she wasn't breastfed.
> I know that breastfeeding doesn't "take immunities" from the mother, but
> that the breast manufactures them specifically for baby, but does anyone
> know of any more specific research or information about mom's immunities,
> etc. while breastfeeding? I told this mom I would ask you and she is
> anxious for any more information about this. So far she is hanging in
> there
> and breastfeeding nearly exclusively (small amounts of formula needed
> while
> she works despite pumping 3 times during her work day), but any more
> information would be appreciated. Please email me since I'm not up to
> date
> on my posts. ([log in to unmask])
> Thanks,
> Lori Salisbury, RN, IBCLC
> hospital based LC in Spokane WA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:57:55 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: yeast
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Janna, "the Yeast Connection" by William G. Crook, M.D. has lots of good info
for people who have and or carry systemic yeast. Much has to do with dietary
control.
Denny Rice, RN. IBCLC
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