I keep seeing that many think the P/S is $300. Suggested retail is $277,
discounted everywhere to $250. It's only a $50 difference, but by telling
everyone that it is $300, it's misleading.
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico where I have to compete with internet
sales that don't charge sales tax and give free shipping!
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:24:24 +0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Esther <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: dirty babies
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<DON'T LET
THE HOSPITAL EMPLOYEES TOUCH THE BABY!!!!! >
Brilliant idea!!!
<Call me lazy but I could see no reason to
subject my babies to this. >
I worked for many years with a pediatric dermatologist who advised
parents NOT to bathe newborns daily for the first few months of life.
They need the protective layers that nature provides!! He suggested
bathing no more than three times a week, and most parents were happy to
follow his advice.
By the way that doc was the best authority in Israel on breastfeeding.
Guess who educated him!! Unlike most docs, he read every article I gave
him and read Ruth Lawrence cover to cover and could recite word for
word. Results: he was the most popular ped in the country and his clinic
was overflowing!!
Esther Grunis, still trying to be serious and reading Lactnet instead of
preparing a lecture on bf in the NICU.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:46:17 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Lucy Towbin <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: ADH
Subject: Pushy about breastfeeding?
Ester, your situation is very different from mine. You're in Israel and
I'm in Arkansas, USA. You're in a hospital and I'm in a maternity clinic.
You have lots of women wanting you to help with breastfeeding and I have
some that are interested prenatally and many that aren't. That said, I do
want to comment that sometimes it is easy to assume someone doesn't want to
breastfeed from her comments if you don't ask enough questions.
For example, a few months ago a 20 year old single pregnant woman was in
clinic with her mother (who she lives with). When I asked about
breastfeeding she gave me one of the general "I just really don't want to"
answers. Her mother then interrupted with a horror story about trying to
breastfeed this young woman and her twin. She told how extremely sore she
got and how the hospital "squeezed my breasts in an iron machine" when she
was engorged. I cringed at her description and assumed her daughter 's
chances of breastfeeding were next to nothing.
Last week I called to see if she'd had the baby yet and how they were doing
(I'm a social worker, too, so I follow-up with some women whether or not
they are breastfeeding). We discussed the birth and the baby, etc. Then
she volunteered that she was breastfeeding. I might not have asked. I
ended up making a home visit because she said she was very sore. It turned
out that although she lives with her loud and negative mother, she has a
mind of her own and decided to do what was best for the baby. Also her
twin sister has breastfed five children, which they didn't tell me at that
first visit!
So I realized that sometimes I don't ask enough questions and stop too soon
when I get a negative response about breastfeeding.
-Lucy Towbin, MSW, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:47:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: latch problem
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry my post was accidently sent before I finished. Wanted to say that doc
wants mother to retrain her bladder by urinating every hour for a week,
then every hour and a half, then every 2 hours. Mother already feesl like
there is no time in her day for her two year old and newborn and now she has
this added dilema.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Gerri, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:10:36 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby warmers
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Carol writes:
>but then, if we don't separate the mom and baby before successful nursing can
>get started, and if we don't make it clear to the mother that the nurses
>*have* to do these various things, then how else would we make it clear to
>her that she is incompetent to take care of her own child and needs to do
>exactly as she is told to do by the many different and contradictory people
>who will be seeing her over the next couple of days? who does the baby belong
>to, anyway?
>
>carol brussel IBCLC
>specializing in asking the questions
>
And just what would the nurses *do* all day?
That's a serious question, in fact (as yours are, Carol, I know).
I already indicated that in the UK , bedside care of the baby (inc all
assessments and so on), no bathing, no routine blah blah blah...and the
mother being caregiver from the very start is *cash and resources-driven*
rather than inspired by a devotion to breastfeeding support.
Undoubtedly, your maternity units could manage with fewer staff if the
nurses didn't have to do all this capering about with gloves and bathing
(and those poor little Israeli babies....what a terrible ordeal...) and
testing. Sheesh. What a palaver.
And no one wants to be out of a job.
Of course, they could all be re-trained as lactation consultants and
breastfeeding supporters.....
And then they might be doing something *useful* : )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:59:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: wendey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: the bath
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My two children were not bathed until we'd been home several days, and then
it was in the tub with me. and those baths are very infrequent, maybe once
a week or often less. Well, my son is two now so he showers everyday
almost with daddy, but my 11 week old doesn't. And we use only plain dove
soap or goat milk soap.
My son was born in hospital, my daughter was born in a free standing birth
centre.
We never asked not to have them bathed either, they just weren't. It
wasn't offered. Wiped off gently (to wipe the liquid off, and gently rub
in the vernix) with warmed receiving blankets was all. And we weren't in
that progressive of an area.
-Wendey, studying LC Montreal Canada (where it's cloudy).
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 14:35:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: pumping for twins
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Hi - I've just started working w/a mom of 2 week old twins who has a big
milk supply problem!!!! She now has a double electric pump and 1 baby
who will latch-on and does transfer milk, but one who is very tiny who
has oral orifice insufficiency and can't latch. My thought was to feed
one twin exclusively at the breast and simultaneously pump the other
breast, then feed EBM plus added formula if needed to the smaller twin.
The pediatrician reccommended to the mom that she not breast feed one
and bottle/alternatively feed the second twin, even short term, that
they should be eating the same way - ie both breast or both bottle????
anyway....the mom also felt that she didn't have time to pump that
frequently and then feed the babies too.
My question: how often and for how long should she double pump if she
is getting no nipple stimulation from the babies, in order to bring in
enough milk for the twins? Is it the same as for singletons and her
body just knows that there are 2?????? thanks! janna,cpnp, ibclc in w.
htfd. CT
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:59:35 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Toby Gish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Boys and other thoughts
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In cultures where boys are the preferred sex - might mothers make more of
an effort to continue breastfeeding inspite of difficulties?
I never had any great breastfeeding problems but I think what brought me to
this lifelong passion was falling in love with the magic of breastfeeding. I
was, and still am, entranced by it all.
On our maternity floor, we too are always a bit more optimistic when a
preemie is a girl - they do seem to do better. Sincerely, Toby (Haifa,
Israel)
Toby Gish RN, BA, IBCLC, LLLL
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:31:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to use.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone have any helpful information that could be used to convince a
town board to allow a pump rental business to put in some Lactina's in the
nurses office at a school for the teachers that are breastfeeding.
Any articles with statistics, benefits, pr articles etc? Not sure how to
approach this.
Can someone point me in a helpful direction? I'm feeling clueless.
Belinda Bohnert, Nursing Matters Breastpump Sales & Rental, Indianapolis
Indiana, US
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:41:22 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dee Dee & Jean Whalen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sheehan's syndrome
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Hello all, I am finally back after a long break, having
gotten breastfeeding established with my now 6 week old
daughter. I have a question for Dr Jack Newman, or anyone
else who can help. This question comes from Pamela Browne,
IBCLC here in Goose Bay, Labrador who does not have access
to a computer:
"Does Sheehan's Syndrome ever resolve? Can a woman
breastfeed her next baby if she had Sheehan's syndrome with
an earlier baby? How does one definitely diagnose
Sheehan's?"
TIA
Deborah Whalen, BN RN ("IBCLC wannabe!")
Goose Bay, Labrador
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to
use.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Would ask Medela for that data. Also, if this is a high school, the
students may need the pumps too. Would definitely look into it from that
angle.
Susan
[log in to unmask] on 05/27/99 03:31:29 PM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: need articles to support pumps in a school for teachers to use.
Does anyone have any helpful information that could be used to convince a
town board to allow a pump rental business to put in some Lactina's in the
nurses office at a school for the teachers that are breastfeeding.
Any articles with statistics, benefits, pr articles etc? Not sure how to
approach this.
Can someone point me in a helpful direction? I'm feeling clueless.
Belinda Bohnert, Nursing Matters Breastpump Sales & Rental, Indianapolis
Indiana, US
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:26:58 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: P/S
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We sell it for $277 and with taxes that makes it $294. I think it
reasonable to say a mom is spending $300. on this pump in our area.
Susan
Jerry & Jacie Coryell <[log in to unmask]> on 05/27/99 11:46:58 AM
Please respond to Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Susan J Keith-Hergert/MGCR/CHP)
Subject: Re: P/S
I keep seeing that many think the P/S is $300. Suggested retail is $277,
discounted everywhere to $250. It's only a $50 difference, but by telling
everyone that it is $300, it's misleading.
Jacie in Albuquerque, New Mexico where I have to compete with internet
sales that don't charge sales tax and give free shipping!
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:21:37 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Karen Zeretzke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lamaze magazine giving away bottles!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It may not be formula, but advertising bottles and teats still is against
the Code.
<fume>
Karen Zeretzke, MED, IBCLC
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
[log in to unmask]
http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/bfcost.html
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:33:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby warmers
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>and i was told by a nurse here that "the mom can have the baby for kangaroo
>care as soon as he has spent half an hour under the warmer, then she can
hold
>him for a while, but then he has to go back under the warmer."
I remember hearing this at a hospital I worked at a few years ago. I was
"just a CNA nursing a baby", what did I know. But the breastfeeding
counselor told me once, while putting a baby under the warmer, how well she
liked the baby warmer or whatever name they had for that particular one. I
replied with "But doesn't skin to skin contact with mom do well also?" She
said ,"Yes, but she liked the warmer cause she could see EXACTLY what the
baby's temperature was." There you have it. It is ingrained in our society.
Seeing is believing. Nothing left on instinct with people.
Patti c.
(mother of 3, nursing mother of 19-mo twins and aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:34:24 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby baths in Israel
Mime-Version: 1.0
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The only way to stop this sort of nonsense is to inform moms of the
negative effects and encourage them to refuse the bath. I am very vocal in
my breastfeeding classes for prenatal patients and some of our CBE's are as
well.
Susan
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:39:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: No nursery
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>>
>And just what would the nurses *do* all day?
>
>
I think some of this fussing with the baby is eliminated in hospitals
without a nursery. Sacred Heart in Eugene, Oregon has just their level III
NICU and an extra nursery for some overflow. The routine, though, is that
babies stay with their mom and AREN'T taken to the nursery for routine
procedures.
patti c.
(aspirining LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:44:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>Mothers in the US also routinely give the baby a full-body bath every day,
>even though the dirty part gets cleaned with every diaper change.
I have heard this on a wonderful multiples list I am on. We were discusing
bathing one time and more than a few moms admitted to bathing their
multiples daily since birth. One did mention they did not use soap though. I
just can't see the need in little babies and we still don't do it daily with
them as toddlers unless they have been playing outside or gotten dirty
somehow.
Patti c.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:19:40 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Pump crud, old and older
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Debbie Macallister writes:
<< Just because it's my personal crud doesn't mean it's safe for it to come
in contact with my baby's food. >>
And if that's true when it's this year's crud, how much truer when it is the
crud from when one was pumping for ones last kid, before the PNS sat under
the bed or in the top of the closet for three years.
Cross-contamination, at least in a home setting, just doesn't seem like a
much bigger issue than the general germiness of life.
Elisheva Urbas
whose kids have occasionally been known to eat Cheerios off the New York City
sidewalks, which really is disgusting.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:33:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: baby bathing
In-Reply-To: <01bea879$48f864a0$0999170c@default>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I, too, have a friend who is a Ped dermatologist. He says that if the hospitals stop giving that famous "bath" he will be out of a job. He recommends no soap on infants because of resultant rashes and other skin irritations. No soap for a loooooong time.
A local Ped, who is one of the Good Guys, was asked by new parents when they could bathe the baby with soap and his reply was, "When her knees are dirty."
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
<color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>mailto:[log in to unmask]</color>
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dee Keith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [LLLOhio] And More PR stuff...
Comments: To: [log in to unmask], Michelle Hardert <[log in to unmask]>,
Linda Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Karen Gromada <[log in to unmask]>,
Ebola <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Brandi Lin Mandingo <[log in to unmask]>,
Liz Baldwin <[log in to unmask]>,
"Cc: Andrea Eastman" <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Uecker <[log in to unmask]>,
Allison Hazelbaker <[log in to unmask]>,
Chris Auer <[log in to unmask]>,
Ann Twiggs <[log in to unmask]>, Barb Letts <[log in to unmask]>,
Carrie Otterson <[log in to unmask]>,
Cindy Smith <[log in to unmask]>, Dale Houser <[log in to unmask]>,
Marsha Gaines <[log in to unmask]>, Jenni Getz <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Sheila Kippley <[log in to unmask]>,
Karen Wynne <[log in to unmask]>,
Loma Gray <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask], Lisa Sandora <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Wales <[log in to unmask]>, Norma Escobar <[log in to unmask]>,
Amy Scott <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Susan Keith-Hergert <[log in to unmask]>,
Barb Hampl <[log in to unmask]>
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I talked to the State house today and Dixie Allen's office . They told =
me that they would call me and let me know when the Ohio bill would be =
up and need testimony they didn't think it would be next week though. So =
in the mean time contact your legislators and tell then that they need =
to support this bill that is so vitally need to clarify the legalities =
of breastfeeding. It is legal even though Rep. Rhine McLin didn't think =
it was to nurse in public. The bill is needed as protective legislation =
to clarify existing laws for both the general public and for law =
enforcement and business. Some legislators have said that they will not =
act on this until some one is arrested. Which is in my option way to =
late. I will post as soon as I have a date for testimony . Dee Keith, =
Tri-State Breastfeeding Advocates, IBCLC, LLLL, mother of ten BF =
children.=20
=20
Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [LLLOhio] And More PR stuff...
=20
=20
Hi all , Dee Keith Here. I received a phone call today from a Peds =
from Dayton who was called by Rep. Dixie Allens office to help present =
testimony on the Ohio breastfeeding bill. it appears that testimony will =
be taken sometime most likely in the next week. I wish they could tell =
me when. I intend to go to Columbus for this. This issue will have at =
most one shot . If we do not show and in force, there will no chance =
of this bill passing or moving onto any further discussion. It is =
imperative that we gather our forces and put pressure on our =
legislators. But We need bodies in Columbus, please if you care at all =
about this issue I beg of you show up when we need you. Send your =
friends , family, children, and nursing moms and dads. We have all =
worked so hard to get here, don't let this slip by without a phone call, =
fax, letter or willing testimony to the committee. Please. As soon as I =
have an absolute date and room number I will shout it out. Dee Keith, =
IBCLC, LLLL, Mother of ten BF children
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:48:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: pumping for twins
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i must say i am dying to know why the pediatrician insists that both babies
be fed "the same way." if one twin could not breath on his own, would they
both have to be on oxygen?
carol brussel IBCLC
stilllll asking questions
heather - what a dream world about hospitals! good imagination girl.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:32:07 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bathing babies
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi Carol,
>okay, so somebody show me some great scientific studies proving that a bath
>is really crucial, and if so, then why aren't all those dirty babies in
>heather's part of the world suffering terribly?
Just to confirm what Heather is saying, my baby only had a bath in
hospital because she was covered in meconium (passed it as she was
born), but even so, it wasn't until the next day. In the meantime a
"lick and a promise" (ie a perfunctory wipe with a wet cloth) had to
suffice. Most of the babies in the hospital at the time didn't have a
bath at all.
My next two babies were born at home. One was admitted to hospital at 5
days old, having never been bathed and finally had a bath in SCBU at 10
days old, mainly to wash off the iodine and blood from the numerous
tests she'd had to endure (a student nanny did it for me, because she
needed the practice!). The second was bathed at about 2 weeks old
because I had had to lie to my mother, who thought that this was a sign
of a neglectful mother!
My midwives told me that newborn babies should only be bathed in plain
warm water, they did *not* need a bath every day and vernix was nature's
moisturiser. They were ordinary, NHS midwives, so I assume what I was
told was the "party line".
I have to confess to reading about some of these practices of bathing
and seperation from the mother with absolute horror, and the feeling
that I haven't heard of such things since the 1970s in UK. It must take
a lot more staff than the British practice of getting the mother to do
all the work wherever possible.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:09:34 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Scheduled feeding - natural?
Comments: To: Parent-L Breastfeeding Parents Support List
<[log in to unmask]>, Stay-at-Home AP Mailing List <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi All,
a friend who is in the breastfeeding world shared something with me
today which amused me, with regards to my research into the Ezzo program
and their promotion of scheduled feeding.
I was saying that animals (thinking of primates) nurse their young on
demand and she replied that that wasn't true of all species - pigs,
apparently, nurse their young when it's convenient for them and have
conscious control of their letdown. If a mother pig is worried or
frightened, she can actually refuse to nurse her young altogether, and
even if they can get to latch on, they get no milk without her consent.
So there you have it. Scheduled feeding is natural - for a pig!
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:27:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Rx for mastitis
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Martha
having got rather a backlog of Lactnet I was surprised that no-one has
commented about the timing of prescription of antibiotics for mastitis.
In the Uk we have been looking at information that most mastitis - by
definition inflammation of the breast - does not, if treated quickly involve
bacteria and therefore doesnt need Rx of antibiotics instantly. Sally Inch
and Chloe Fisher have been advocating adequate draining of the breast as
often as possible and looking at positioning and attachment. They suggest
that antibiotics often work as powerful anti-infalmmatory agents rather as
anti-bacterials in the early stages, which is why mum gets better and we all
assume she need a'biotics.
So in this case Martha could the mother have fed often and/or expressed the
milk to "empty" the breast and maybe taken ibuprofen to lower temp and reduce
inflammation - and waited till the morning for A'biotics without harm?
If antibiotics are Rx less hopefully there will be fewer cases of thrush too.
Inch and Fisher - 1995 - Mastitis: infection or inflammation? Practitioner
239 472-476
(also reprinted in MIDIRS)
Wendy Jones
Breastfeeding Network Supporter Uk and Pharmacist
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:02:24 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-286)
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> Kathy Koch wrote:
> I just wish Oprah had said "breastfeeding"
> without the sneer in her voice...
>
So it was not my imagination. I was afraid I was too sensitive and did not dare
mention it. We have to work on this lady ;-)
Nicole
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:53:27 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Barbara Kennedy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mother Baby Separation
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Thirty one years ago tonight I gave birth to our first child-a full term
healthy son. He was not brought me to nurse or even hold for over 24 hours.
Ask me if I still remember it!!! I had worked in that newborn nursery and
those nurses were supposed to be my friends. In spite of those hospital
routines, he still nursed for over a year.
Twenty two months later, in the same hospital, his sister went to my
breast while I was still on the delivery table after a Cesarean birth and
nursed beautifully, and for many, many months thereafter.
Who says assertive mothers can't make a difference? But unfortunately
mothers are still fighting the same battles or varieties thereof. United,
we can help with this on-going struggle of women everywhere..
Thank you, each one, for all you do to make this a better world.
Barbara Kennedy RN ICCE ICD CD(DONA) IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:31:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: introduction
Comments: To: Timothy Collins <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi, Mary Beth, and welcome to lactnet!
Re: your post-hysterectomy friend's breast question: I used to call this my
"breast period" after mine - and the main way I knew that my remaining piece
of ovary had pooped out was that they first became irregular & less
frequent, then mostly stopped. Started estrogen, & the swelling & tenderness
resumed, although with less "periodicity". Because her ovaries still
function, she gets the breast enlargement with the hormonal fluctuations,
which continue to carry on except they don't have a uterus to act upon any
more. Don't really know about the leaking business you described, but if she
only stopped nursing 2 yrs ago, I'd say it doesn't sound too wierd. Powerful
things, those breasts! A life of their own sometimes!
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:10:11 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-288)
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Pat wrote and asked iff anyone used straight gentian violet on baby's
bottom for diaper rash caused by yeast. My sister used it for that
purpose, and why not?
Elaine Mazgelis, RD, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:08:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Pam Easterday <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: school teachers pumping
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Belinda, La Leche's New Beginnings magazine had a column about teachers
working and nursing, with a question and 6 responses from mothers who have.
January-February 1999 volume 16 number 1
Pam Easterday
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:46:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Maurenne griese <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Federal Employee Nursing Moms Program
Comments: To: lactivist <[log in to unmask]>
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Once again, my DH ( a federal employee) has sent an update on the US feds
program to help federal employees who are BF. My DH thought I had sicked my
lactivist friends on the people who write this newsletter ; )! I gently
replied to him that it's the federal employees that are speaking up about
their need for BF support from their employer, the US government, not us
lactivists. Glad to see moms speaking up for themselves in unison like
this.
Maurenne Griese, RNC, BSN, CCE, CBE
Birth and Breastfeeding Resources http://www.childbirth.org/bbfr
Pregnancy & Childbirth Contributing Editor
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/pregnancy_childbirth
Manhattan, KS USA
[log in to unmask]
*******************************************************************
FEDweek
> The FREE Weekly Newsletter for Federal Employees
> Wednesday, May 26, 1999
> 7. What Makes a Good Nursing Mothers Program
> We had such a large number of requests for more details
> on nursing mothers programs that we're publishing what
> the Office of Personnel Management says are the key
> elements of successful ones:
>
> Space -- A room with at least two electrical outlets
> that is large enough to contain an end table, two chairs,
> a trashcan and a small refrigerator. One outlet for the
> breast pump, the other for the refrigerator. Privacy is
> imperative. There should be a sink for clean-up in the
> room or nearby.
>
> Breast Pump -- Many manufacturers make breast pumps.
> Beware of breast pumps labeled "personal use" which
> have low durability and are not sanitary for use as a
> multi-user unit. Some may wish to use their own units.
>
> Supplies -- Anti-bacterial soap (to clean equipment
> after use), paper towels, hooks to hang tubing to dry,
> a bulletin board.
>
> Security -- A combination door lock so that as the
> mothers change or on a quarterly basis, the combination
> can be changed. This ensures that only those in the
> program have access to the room.
>
> Room Point of Contact -- To handle the daily
> responsibilities such as cleaning, pump schedules, email,
> facility problems, etc. The POC would be responsible
> for new mothers indoctrination, supplies and other areas
> as necessary.
>
> 8. Breast Milk Program Contacts
> NSA's -- Jacki Kilian, phone: (410) 854-4657;
> Agriculture's Jackie Rodriguez, (703) 305-2692; OPM's
> DeShawn Shepard, (202) 606-4626; State's Judy Zarbo,
> RN, (202) 647-2546; Transportation's Wendy Leech/Suzette
> Paes, (202) 366-6389/4893, and Labor's Anne Bartels,
> (202) 219-6741, ext. 164.
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:49:29 EDT
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<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Warmers
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University Hospital in Cleveland would get rid of visitors, undress mom and
baby, put them skin to skin with a warmer over both of them. Then leave them
alone as much as possible for at least 1 hour after birth. It was wonderful.
Ruth Solomon
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:19:20 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: white tongue
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In a message dated 5/27/99 12:24:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< As to the white tongue, some people claim that white tongue doesn't
indicate yeast overgrowth, but I believe that it does. It's just that
sometimes it doesn't bother baby nor mother's nipples. It is just a
low-level yeast imbalance, so it is not treated. (I do believe that it is
not optimal health, though, for one to have a white coating on her tongue.) >>
I agree, but even the peds I work with who are breastfeeding friendly don't
like to treat unless I have a mom with really sore nipples. I have moms swab
the baby's mouth with a Q-tip dipped in a mixture of 1 teaspoon of baking
soda to 1 cup of water several times per day till white tongue is gone. It
takes sometime but it changes the pH so the yeast can't strive. Saw a little
baby today that had a white tongue last week and was pink today after using
this for one week. This was a baby that I had wiped her tongue with cloth
wrapped around my finger and it did not remove the white at all.
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and private practice
Orlando, FL
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:16:59 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Daycare and Pumped Breast milk
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I am a hospital based LC in a large Pennsylvania Hospital. I had a call
today regarding a mother whose child may not be permitted to have pumped
breast milk in day care because the care providers consider the milk to be a
body fluid capable of transmitting HIV, Hepatitis, etc. There was a question
concerning whether gloves should be worn while giving the bottles and if the
bottles could be stored in a refrigerator with bottles of formula and other
food. Ridiculous, I know. I relayed information I had regarding the CDC
stating that gloves are not necessary for handling breast milk in addition to
my opinion that there is a much higher risk from changing diapers. I would
appreciate any references any of you may have that would make these people
feel more comfortable with this situation. I do not think finding another
day care is an option at this time. As usual, thanks in advance for your
help. Kathy Romberger, RNC, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:35:57 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Monique Schaefers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths
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Got to jump on this one.
When my son was born 2 years ago at 7 PM, my husband deposited him on my
belly and chest immediately after his birth. He latched on and nursed
like a champ right away. I, then dad, held him for the next 8 hours.
Sometime after the first two hours he was weighed. We let go of him
briefly for that but everything else happened while we held our son.
Dad asked if a nurse would show him how to sponge bathe the baby prior
to our discharge. This happened in our room, under the warmer, next to
my Labor/Delivery/Recovery bed so I could watch too. I think our son
was bathed about 2:30 in the AM. This happened at a hospital in
Portland, Oregon.
Now that we know *how* to bathe a newborn, we'll probably wait until we
get home in our own time to bathe our next baby. I never before really
gave it a thought about getting him bathed right away or waiting.
--
Monique
Noah Reilly Schaefers 6/18/97
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:11:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: G Hertz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pushy, Pushing, Progress
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I'm back - after a long month in PICU, and a bout with pneumonia [and if I
owe you an email - etc and you don't hear from me by next week I HAVE lost
you somehow]
I can't help but comment on the "pushy" issue.
Some thoughts:
-You can't make everybody happy all the time.
-How you deliver information is about 75% of what determines whether
someone "accepts" the information.
My Job as a pediatrician is to educate people so they can make choices for
their children's health and wellbeing. It is not my job to make them
"comfortable" with a choice that is not in their child's best interest. I
cannot force someone to put their 4 year old in a booster seat, or to
refrain from smoking around their child any more than I can make someone
breastfeed their baby.
It is my job to care for their child the best I can, regardless of the
choices the parents have made. I can [and do] continue to educate parents
about all these issues - because there is still an opportunity for them to
make better choices at a future time.
I will support the parent's efforts, but I won't help justify a choice that
is not in their children's best interest "just because it is the choice a
parent has made".
That may qualify me as "pushy" - but I've found "pushing" leads to
"progress".
Gail (glad to be back after 8 weeks without Lactnet)
Gail S. Hertz, MD, IBCLC
Resident, Dept. of Pediatrics
PSGHS Children's Hospital
Hershey PA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:05 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: MARY BLACK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Separation of babies
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The effects of separating babies from mothers is enormous.=20
My 75 year old mother still remembers with great pain my brothers birth, =
youngest of four. After spending a pregnancy worrying about whether or not =
she had Down's syndrome (she was 40 at this stage) she got hypertension =
after the birth when they whipped the baby away for what turned out later =
to be some routine weighing and stuff. Despite her pleas, they kept =
reassuring her that he was just fine but did not let her see him.=20
So her blood pressure went through the roof she was so upset and angry, =
the drips started, her BP shot through the roof, they kept the baby away =
because of her blood pressure... and she then recalls my father finally =
breaking through the delivery room doors and immediately insisting she see =
the baby. Of course her blood pressure went down straight away. To this =
day when she gets mad about something her blood pressure goes up.=20
This story made me quite militant when doing obstetrics myself for a =
while, and when having my own babies, not to let mothers and babies be =
separated. But If I had not had two switched on parents who were prepared =
to fight the system, who knows what might have happened ... my mother =
getting a hypertensive fit and brain damage? A horror story around birth =
?=20
I think all of this stuff is like dropping a stone in water - the =
consequences of an event are like ripples and go on forever, even through =
generations.=20
We must keep sharing these different stories , because the actual =
practices vary much more than the text books, and the roots of explanations=
are often in dissecting the details and asking why and how did that =
happen.
Mary E Black
Australia
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:47:14 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: baby bathing
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I remember early memories of my sweet smelling breastfed babies not needing
daily baths to remain that way. I also remember my sister's formula fed
babies (especially the soy-fed baby) smelling very sour by the end of one
day. Maybe that is where the practice came from?
Debi Ciccarello RN CCE IBCLC missing the sweet smell of my babies tonight....
Columbus, GA
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:59:14 -0400
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From: Tim Hendrix <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Bili levels and supplements
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I am about to start a Breastfeeding Task Force at our hospital, tomorrow
at 8am to be exact! Help!
This has been a frustrating week, once again. One of our neos who is
usually a little better with breastfeeding would not let a mother nurse
at all due to a bili of 8 at 16 hours of age and 10.5 at 20 hours of
age. The baby had to be under the lights at all times. This baby is
now 4 days old still in the hospital (bili is 16). Mom is at home,
coming in as often as possible. Yes, she is nursing, finally, but with
supplementation, of course.....grrrrrr. Luckily this baby is nursing
like a champ.
Today I went in to speak to a mom, who failed at BF with baby number one
and is off to the same start with this one. She was supplementing "to
be sure" the baby was getting enough. (This is the same route she took
with baby number one, at her Peds advice) In comes the ARNP from NICU,
who is looking after baby, since her Ped doesn't come to our hospital,
who firmly tells mom she HAS to continue to supplement since the bili is
9 (48hours of age)......grrrrr. She also made the comment that if she
doesn't follow that advice the baby will get sick and have to be
readmitted. Here I am, thinking I had made some lead way with this mom
and now she is SOOOO confused she has no clue who she should listen to.
Any advice to offer, especially from the Drs ( Nancy W., et al....) Can
we please clone you all??
Pam Hendrix, RN, IBCLC, ICCE in smokey S. Fla. (the everglades are
burning)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:06:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cindy Curtis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding Theme for computer
Comments: To: LACTIVIST POST <[log in to unmask]>
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http://www.themes-n-schemes.com/her.htm
The above url has a screen theme called Mother and Child that features
breastfeeding.
Cindy
Cindy Curtis,RN,IBCLC
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/cindyrn
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:21:42 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pushy,Pushing, Progress
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Well said Gail! Glad you're feeling better and are back!
Jane Ciaramella
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:43:03 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: La Leche League
Subject: Oprah
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I did not get to see that show, as my kids were chanting in my ear
(birthday money burning holes in their pockets) and apparently I did not
program the VCR correctly. But I agree with the one post, that we need
to contact Oprah (www.oprah.com) and encourage her to do a show on LLL's
founding mothers, LLL, breastfeeding and/or lactation consultants. With
her interest in mothering/parenting, children and people who turn their
passions (today's show) into a career (I hated the profit angle) - these
are topics well worth encouraging her to do.
Certainly few of the other American talk shows are going to venture into
the area. Oprah has not fallen to the level of the others (IMHO, either
pure fluff or trash tv) and she just might do it.
And there is no denying, no matter how you personally feel about LLL,
those seven women certainly did something extremely powerful and
socially/culturally changing.
Leslie Ward
Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:45:31 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sharing pumps
In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>'s
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Hello All,
I know that many of the WIC client mothers I work with wind up
supplementing with ABM after returning to work because they can not
afford even a second-hand pump. Many of them scrimp and save to purchase
a "mini" pump making three or four payments to purchase it, and by 6
months pp have to supplement because the "mini" pump was not "enough"
pump. I have recently, however, become acquainted with the M***** Foot
Pedal Pump. This pump operates like their Hospital Grade pump, is
entirely safe to share or resale, given each mother has her own "kit"
(and WIC does provide the kit) The only drew-back is that the mother
must rock her foot on the pedal. (no electricity) They are however,
VERY effective, and easy to carry to work. Another benefit, mother does
not need electrical outlet, so has a wider possibility of pumping
locations. Laura Wright
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:58:25 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: La Leche League
Subject: Bathing babies
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Personally, I do not know what happened to any of my first three babies
as they were wisked away so fast, it was hard to realize, I'd even had a
baby. My last baby was born in Germany, in a German hospital (as opposed
to an American military hospital), she was given to me wrapped in a
receiving blanket immediately after birth. Perhaps they had wiped her
nose and mouth, but certainly not much more than that. And was washed,
obviously very gently, as it was right next to me and she never made a
peep, about an hour after she was born. Weighed and dressed and given
back to us for another 30 mins or so.
One of the reasons I can't watch A Baby Story on The Learning Channel is
the way they handle babies in most of the births. If I'd ever seen
someone handle one of my babies so roughly in the seconds after birth,
I'd come up off the table and start screaming lawsuit (and probably a
few choice nasty words). Of course the main reason I don't watch the
show is the epidurals and laboring flat in a bed - I've been forced to
do it twice and done it completely my way twice (although other than
number one, no anesthesia). I tell moms that my extemely wonderful,
floating on the top of the world, I can do anything feeling after an
undrugged delivery is the reason I recommend it, compared to my first
son where two weeks after delivery I still felt drugged out. I only
recommend that show to the moms I see, with a caution and usually only
if they've never had a baby, so they get some idea of what it's like.
Leslie Ward
Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:00:02 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sheehans
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Deborah:
Depends... was it full sheehan's has the pituitary totally shut down? was
it partial and is the pituitary function re established?
Patricia
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:00:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: gentian violet
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Evonne:
I worked with a mother with chronic/systemic yeast problems and she
used gentian violet on the other body parts ofher children who had
overgrowths - i recall takingpictures of the total diaper area of her little
girl - before and after painting iwth g/v.
I have painted my son's feet during hockey season when he was playing
back to back tournaments.
Go for it.
Patricia
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:04:49 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lamaze Magazine response
Thought you might be interested in the response I got from Lamaze Magazine.
I sent the following email to Missey Moe-Cook in the Prenatal Education
department:
Hi, to all of you at Lamaze Magazine (Spanish and English versions). May I
first congratulate you on an excellent magazine and comment on what a great
help the information is, especially to Spanish-speaking mothers. The
increase in Spanish-language information is very helpful.
However, I would like to comment about your advertisement on the back of
"Informe Lamaze." could you come up with some other kind of free coupon or
sample to give mothers besides Playtex Bottles and Nipples? In a magazine
that promotes and supports breastfeeding as the gold standard around the
world, it does seem strange to include artificial feeding devices as part of
your free coupons and samples. Thank goodness it wasn't for free formula!
Far more time and money is saved by providing help with breastfeeding
success, if money is the issue here. And the health issues with breastmilk
in comparison with artificial baby milks are well-known. I suppose that the
mothers could use the Playtex bottles to feed their own milk, but that's not
the message this advertisement is sending to Spanish-speaking moms.
How about offering some free milk storage bags instead?
Just a suggestion.
Deanne Francis, BSN, LCCE, IBCLC
I received this response:
Thank you so much for your comments. Please understand we are 100%
supportive of breastfeeding, and all the ads in all the magazines that have
anything to do with bottles, nipples or pacifiers are always reviewed by
Lamaze International before being placed in the magazine. No ad goes into
the magazine that has not been approved/reviewed with the advertising
guidelines set up by Lamaze International. All of the wording is carefuly
reviewed and oftentimes rewritten to conform with their requirements.
Hopefully this answers your concerns about any ad seen in any of the
publications.
Missey Moe-Cook
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:23:56 +0000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: HCI
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 (#1999-292)
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> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:43:03 -0400
> From: Leslie Ward <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Oprah
>
> I did not get to see that show, as my kids were chanting in my ear
> (birthday money burning holes in their pockets) and apparently I did not
> program the VCR correctly. But I agree with the one post, that we need
> to contact Oprah (www.oprah.com) and encourage her to do a show on LLL's
> founding mothers, LLL, breastfeeding and/or lactation consultants. With
> her interest in mothering/parenting, children and people who turn their
> passions (today's show) into a career (I hated the profit angle) - these
> are topics well worth encouraging her to do.
>
> Certainly few of the other American talk shows are going to venture into
> the area. Oprah has not fallen to the level of the others (IMHO, either
> pure fluff or trash tv) and she just might do it.
>
> And there is no denying, no matter how you personally feel about LLL,
> those seven women certainly did something extremely powerful and
> socially/culturally changing.
>
> Leslie Ward
> Vine Grove, KY
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:45:42 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Has anyone been involved with a Small Business Admin SBIR program?
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I've been looking into possible means of funding some breastfeeding
support research projects via non-academic means and came across
information about this SBA program which provides funding for research
to be done by small business entreprenuers.
Got my curiosity up, so I'd like to hear privately from anyone who might
have had some experience with this.
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:54:33 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pros and cons to breastpump rental station?
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Today has been a very eventful day for me!
I made up my mind, committed to going into private practice, and
registered my business with the county, got a home occupancy permit to
work out of my home, and printed 100 business cards.
So now I am officially the sole proprietor of
Of a Nurturing Nature: Educational and Support Services for the
Childbearing Family
I'll be providing lactation consultation, labor and post-partum doula
services, and possibly childbirth education classes.
Now I am trying to weigh the pros and cons of opening a breastpump
rental station in a community of about 40,000 with a population base
that is about 50% over the age of 50.
If you have had a rental station and are willing to share some counsel
to a novice in such things, please email me at
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Thanks in advance,
Melinda Hoskins, MS, RN, LC2B
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:24:41 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Patti Carroll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: gentian violet
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>Pat wrote and asked iff anyone used straight gentian violet on baby's
>bottom for diaper rash caused by yeast. My sister used it for that
>purpose, and why not?
>
I used gentian violet on Neil's diaper rash when he was a baby. He broke out
in a rash the next day from head to toe. Assuming it was the gentian violet.
The twins had many applications in their mouth, way more than I would do
again, and seemed fine with it.
Patti C.
(aspiring LC in WI)
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:30:36 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Deanne Francis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Comments on various
Comments in response to several posts the last couple of days.
Re: Pumping in school.
You might check with Hollister since they have a corporate pump rental
program with a lot of information about the benefits to employers who
support breastfeeding in this way. Medela probably has one also.
Re: Starting premies on oral feeds with red nipples.
Not here we don't. (Level 3 NICU with 35 beds) Babies receiving breast
milk are started on skin to skin early (even on vents if they are stable)
and when the baby is ready to graduate from gavage feeds, the first oral
feed is a breast feeding, as well as every other oral feed for at least a
week if the mother is available. If we start bottles, we use regular
nipples (no premie nipples)
Re: Keeping babies warm.
Even our tiny premies stay warm if they have a hat on, and are put skin to
skin between the mother's breasts and both are covered with a warm blanket
or snuggly.
Re: Use of dilute NaHCO3 solution to swab mouth with thrush.
I would use caution, particularly if the baby is premature, when putting
bicarb in the baby's mouth or on nipples because of the potential for
interfering with the baby's sodium balance and the potential for creating a
metabolic alkalosis. We had a premie get into trouble on these two issues
and we nearly tore our hair trying to figure out what her problem was until
we discovered the mother had been swabbing her nipples with bicarbonate of
soda which was not washed off prior to nursing.
Re: Breastfeeding after a C/section: We encourage our mothers as part of
our prenatal breastfeeding class to breastfeed before their epidural wears
off if they have to have a cesarean. They are having no post op pain, and
if the baby is in good condition, breastfeeding usually goes at least as
well as it does following epidurals for vaginal births.
Enjoying the discussions. Thanks all for your great insights and comments
Deanne
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Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:30:13 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby Bathing
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The description of putting babies under the faucet for bathing reminded me
of when I was supervising nursing students in maternity. I oriented them by
saying that if I caught anyone bathing a baby like that(under the faucet)
they would be failed immediately, on the spot. My rationale: the practice
is dangerous and demeaning. Although it was tempting to do it (because the
nursery staff tell the students, "that's the way we do it in the real
world".), not one of the students ever bathed the baby that way(at least
that I saw). We had the mother's bath them and without any instructions,
but just some encouragement and answered questions if they asked. We
witnessed some of the most sensual baby baths I have ever seen--holding
massaging,talking sweetly, cuddling, never letting them cry or get cold. It
was wonderful!
Since then the hospital has gone through two changes: first they did away
with the bathing and now it has returned because of the issue of universal
precautions and HIV. I think this is a real issue of concern for nurses,
but rather than make mother' s feel that their babies are "dirty", why not
have mother's wash them. They could even bring in their own tub!
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 02:01:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sharing pumps:
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Patricia,
1) I have seen numerous 'properly sealed' bottles leak. (also if a mom is
using milk storage bags they may get punctured)
2) Who knows what kind of particulates (spores, pollens, etc.) may be in the
'air' moving thru the tubing.
I really am uncomfortable with the idea of sharing pumps that store the EBM
in the same case as the motor. I have seen milk get into the tubing of the
pump with the silicon filter, and I have seen mothers use the other motor
without the hydrophobic filter because it "worked better" (the filter had
gotten wet and no longer allowed air thru -- the client [s] used the pump
without instead of replacing the filter).
Until I can see the motor of a 'personal use' pump of this sort after heavy
use, I will recommend to my clients that they err on the side of safety and
buy their own pump. If they cannot afford their own pump I will help them
make the used pump they decide to obtain as safe as possible. (again safer
than formula but not my first choice)
Sincerely,
Cheryl L Tompkins
(please forgive any typos - I burned 3 fingers on my right hand and am having
a difficult time finding the correct keys)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:24:01 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baby bathing /warmers again
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The issue of mother versus an overhead warmer is old. I thought we solved
that issue a long time ago. Conduction(mother to baby contact) is a better
conductor of heat than convection(baby under radiant heater).
Johnson, NW. 1976. Breastfeeding at one hour of age. MCN.1(1):12-16
Britton, GR. 1980. Early mother-infant contact and infant temperature
stabilization. JOGN. M/A/:84-86.
Hill, ST. and Shronk, LK. 1978. the effect of early parent-infant contact
on newborn body temperature. JOGN. S/O:287-290.
Regarding daily bathing. I always told parents that their babies didn't
need to be bathed everyday, but that it was a fun ritual, a time for them
to look at their baby all over, to gently touch/massage, to kiss and
cuddle, and when they emerse them in warm water, a very relaxing soothing
time. I remember bath times not as a time of cleaning, but touch, voice,
and visual communication.
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:26:49 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: bclesperance <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: White tongue and baking soda
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I am concerned about using baking soda with an infant. Is there danger of
an overload of sodium?
Carol L'Esperance, RN, MSN, IBCLC
Albuquerque, NM 87106 USA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:28:22 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Chad & Kate McMurry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HELP! Positional Torticollis and suck problems
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I am beyond my experience and would like some guidance. Had a mother come
to LLL meeting whose baby was born with positional torticollis. I will give
the stats that I know and if you need any more feel free to ask.
Baby born via C-section after 2 days of pitocin 9# 13 oz.
Mother exclusively breastfeeding until 2 week check-up and ped. dr. was very
concerned that baby had not regained birth weight and was at 9# 3 oz.
Immediately sent mother to Lactation Consultant and baby was put on SNS with
formula and pumped BM. 1 week later, baby regained birth weight and LC did
a before and after nursing weight check and baby only took in 1 oz BM.
Mother told to give up on breastfeeding that she was not producing enough
milk and never would by LC and Ped. Dr. LC helped mother pick out nipple to
bottle feed baby. (I could just scream!!) Mother not ready to fully give
up and is pumping 8x/day. So, at this point neither Dr or LC checked baby's
suck only the positioning at the breast. Mother noticed that baby's jaw and
neck were not quite right and that milk would drip out of baby's mouth when
eating. Dr. sent baby to physical therapist who diagnosised baby's
torticollis. Physical therapist very supportative of BF and is giving the
mother exercises to try and help sucking as well as help with the positional
torticollis.
At this point baby is 4 weeks old and mother is hoping to breastfeed
exclusively. We talked about how baby was most likely only getting the
foremilk and not the hindmilk which is why he was not gaining weight, even
though he was having plenty of wet/dirty diapers. Baby appeared to be
latched on correctly, but was gumming the breast instead of sucking. Our
plan of attack is to get baby's sucking well and then work on building up
the mothers milk supply. My question (finally) is what recommendations do
you have for improving baby's suck in this situation? Also, if anyone knows
of a qualified LC who might be able to work with this mother in the
Vancouver, WA/Portland, OR vacinity. Hospital LC told mother that they do
not know how to deal with this problem and that most of their mothers are
not successful with BFing once they have started supplementing. I am
quite concerned with this situation as I usually refer mothers to the LC's
at the hospital when their BF problems are beyond what I can help them with
over the phone...I can't believe they told a mother that there was no way to
increase her milk supply at 3 weeks postpartum and to give up!!
Thank you for your help.
Barely controlling my frustration-
Kate McMurry LLLL
[log in to unmask]
"I would be most happy if my children grew up to be
the kind of people who think decorating consists of
building enough book shelves." -Anna Quindlen
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:59:17 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: carolyn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby bathing
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It seems obvious to me that evolution has had a hand in the different
attitudes.
In the U.K nurses and midwives have evolved so that they do not pick up
infections from mothers and babies.
In the U.S and some other parts of the world the staff are more at risk
because they have missed out on this evolutionary trait.
Simple really!
Unable to curb the sarcasm today because one of my cats is missing and I
am sooooo upset.
--
Carolyn Westcott RN IBCLC Southampton UK
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:10:23 EST
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: anne bond <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: low milk supply
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This is the first time I have posted so I will quickly introduce myself. I
am an Australian LC and midwife currently on maternity leave having had my
first baby a month ago. I am thoroughly enjoying motherhood, breastfeeding
and the time I now have to keep up with Lactnet posts.
I am seeking your collective wisdom in regard to a near desperate situation
with a breastfeeding friend who seems to have tried it all for a low milk
supply.
Baby is 8 weeks old and current weight is 4170gms, birth weight was 3580gms.
It took baby 4 weeks to get back to her birth weight. Baby has had normal
growth in her length and head circumference. Baby is alert, has reasonable
urine output and bowel motions.
Mother currently breastfeeds every 2 hours during the day and every 3 - 4
hours over night. Baby feeds for 15 - 20 minutes on both breasts, and suck
swallow ratios indicate let down takes place.(Mother also feels let downs).
A pacifier and a baby sling has been used to give this family a break but
perhaps to the detriment of mother's milk supply. Baby has received
occasional formula supplement given via a supply line (nursing supplementer)
when no weight was gained. Mother has also expressed post breastfeeds using
an electric pump with duel collection units. Mother has had two episodes of
sore nipples but baby appears to have a good latch. It is this mother's
first baby and she had a normal birth, with complete placenta without drugs
at term and breastfed straight after the birth. Mother has no medical
illness and has not had any breast surgery. She did not increase her bra
size throughout her pregnancy and there has not been much areola enlargement
however she certainly experienced fullness when her milk came in. She is
currently taking Domperidone 10mg x 2 three times a day, Fennelgreek 500mg x
2 three times a day and St. Mary's Thistle 70mg x 2 three times a day. Today
she told me the baby has developed thrush around it's bottom which she is
treating with an antifungal. She will also treat herself as a preventative
measure.
This family has just about had enough and I don't know what else to suggest.
I am wondering whether baby has an underlying medical condition ( i.e.
urinary tract infection) which is compounding the problem. I would be
extremely grateful for any new ideas for this extremely motivated mother.
Anne Bond, RN, RM, IBCLC
Melbourne, Australia
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:34:11 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: low milk supply
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>Baby is 8 weeks old and current weight is 4170gms, birth weight was 3580gms.
>It took baby 4 weeks to get back to her birth weight. Baby has had normal
>growth in her length and head circumference. Baby is alert, has reasonable
>urine output and bowel motions.
Okay, so this is not great - but it works out at 600 g over four weeks, or
150 g a week. That is the lower end of normal in what is looked for here
(UK) and while it does not indicate a terrific milk supply, it is not a
desperately poor one, either.
The history of the situation - formula, pacifier, SNS - shows there has
been a lot of stress here and stuff which might have prevented everything
getting off to a good start - although there may have been good short-term
reasons why these were used.
>Mother currently breastfeeds every 2 hours during the day and every 3 - 4
>hours over night. Baby feeds for 15 - 20 minutes on both breasts, and suck
>swallow ratios indicate let down takes place.(Mother also feels let downs).
This may not be enough for *this mother* with *this baby* in *this
situation* to build up an optimal supply. I'm assuming she's not imposing a
schedule.
Can she give the baby lots of skin to skin? Co-sleep? Watch for cues so she
can feed more often, day and night?
>Today
>she told me the baby has developed thrush around it's bottom which she is
>treating with an antifungal. She will also treat herself as a preventative
>measure.
Could be significant if it it turns out to be oral as well.
>This family has just about had enough and I don't know what else to suggest.
>I am wondering whether baby has an underlying medical condition ( i.e.
>urinary tract infection) which is compounding the problem.
Possibly - though very poorly babies would not gain as much as this.
heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:00:21 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: away
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Hi all. I will be away from my computer for the next week or so. (Well, I
may have it if I can figure out how to make it run in Europe)...
If you have any questions, please write to
[log in to unmask] and one of our technical experts will
help you. Kathy Koch, Melissa Vickers, Karen Zeretzke, and Kathleen Auerbach
are here, although Kathy A. is very busy these days.
Thanks, and keep the discussion flowing!
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
LACTNET Archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/lactnet.html
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 06:46:53 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC needed
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If you know of an LC in Malmo, Sweden, please email me privately.
Thanks, JO
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:08:25 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ugh! radio program on breastfeeding
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Hi All,
I was hoping one of the other Brits would discuss this, as I didn't hear
the radio program myself, but I have to comment.
My mother phoned me up with what she considered some useful
"information", regarding breastfeeding, after hearing a phone-in program
on BBC Radio 4. Women were talking about their breastfeeding experiences
(which I *should* be happy about). However, from the report I received
from my mother, it does sound as if quite a few myths and untruths were
exchanged.
My mother said that a lady had phoned-in to say she had breastfed her
baby, but her nipples got covered in blisters. She couldn't cope, so was
going to put the baby on the bottle (this was about day 3). The midwife
did a home visit, and found her in this state and immediately took the
bottle teat off the bottle and placed it over the woman's nipple.
"Try it now," she said. The woman did and said it was totally
painless. Then the midwife told her to go out and get silicone nipple
shields ASAP, which she did. My mother was under the impression that
nipple shields were this miracle treatment for sore nipples that the
medical profession was keeping secret for some mysterious reason.
"Your sister could have used them when she got so sore with her first
baby" said my mother. <Groan>
My sister's problem had been good old fashioned positioning and was
fixed in 5 minutes when she actually held the baby properly. I cannot
imagine what harm nipple shields would have done in that situation.
We discussed several other issues, including the theory that fairheaded
women were more likely to have inverted nipples but my mother had at
least got the point that the "support" I am always saying is lacking, is
not about saying "Breast is best", but actually helping women with the
practicalities. Is it just me, or do others cringe when they hear
breastfeeding mothers perpetuating all kinds of myths?
Maybe someone heard the program and can give me an informed opinion.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:08:29 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Joanne McCrory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ezzo victory and alternatives
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I am in need of recommendations for programs that include a religious
component as alternatives for Ezzo. ( I have a list, but do not have
information on individual programs.) Have any of you had experience with
some of the other programs, ones that may include classes or a self-directed
curriculum that would be good quality alternatives?
I had a small victory with one of my childbirth students. She had told me
that she was planning on using a parent-directed feeding plan with her baby.
I suggested that she might not be aware that this information was
controversial, and gave her all my anti-Ezzo materials. I also included
information on the ways in which babies develop, primarily on lactation and
the physiologic effects of being left to cry.
She came back to class and told me that she had not realized that the Ezzo
material was so controversial and extreme because she had attended the class
at their Church. She asked me for alternative parenting programs that have
a religious component. Of course I recommended Dr. Sears. Thankfully, this
mom and dad are willing to be open-minded and are willing to put in lots of
effort to learn. I would like to provide lots of resources in support of
their obvious commitment.
I learned a lot about reaching this family that I can use to reach others;
1) they did not know that Ezzo is so extreme and controversial because it
came from a trusted source and 2) if a family is willing to read and/or
attend the class, they are well-intentioned and willing to work at being
good parents. Capitalizing on their willingness to learn was crucial to
getting them to re-evaluate Babywise.
Joanne McCrory CBE AAHCC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:33:54 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Bath time
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Carol L'Esperance writes:
<< Regarding daily bathing. I always told parents that their babies didn't
need to be bathed everyday, but that it was a fun ritual, a time for them
to look at their baby all over, to gently touch/massage, to kiss and
cuddle, and when they emerse them in warm water, a very relaxing soothing
time. I remember bath times not as a time of cleaning, but touch, voice,
and visual communication. >>
In a book called "Parenting as a Spiritual Discipline," (Jewish Lights
Publishing, VT, 1997) which I highly recommend, the author, Nancy
Fuchs-Kreimer, talks about bath time in connection with forgiveness. For
parents it can be the objective correlative of the idea that their child, and
they, and their relationship, can be refreshed, made "like new," every day.
And I think all of us who have held, say, a three year old fresh out of the
tub can understand what she means. My kids are lucky if they get 2 or three
baths a week but I can see the attraction of a fixed daily time for winding
down, touching, and admiring your child -- with getting clean thrown in.
But newborns don't need to be "made new" -- not physically or in
metaphorical, relational terms -- they're new already!
Elisheva Urbas, NYC
disclaimer: I sometimes edit books for JLP, though I didn't have anything to
do with this one -- I wish I had, it's a lovely book.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:59:59 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Latch problem
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Any Ideas would be appreciated to aid the latch of a 7 week old girl,
full term, 9lbs.,11oz, precipitous delivery after long pushing stage in
birthing certer, no epidural, transient tachypnea at 24 hours, transported to
NICU and given oxygen thru nasal cannula and suctioned (lightly?), no
intubation, kept 36 hours then sent home weighing 9 lbs., 1 oz. At that
point, baby refused to feed so mother pumped and fed pumped milk to baby with
syringe for 24 hours. Then baby began to show signs of wanting to nurse but
it was impossible to get baby to open wide for latch and baby insisted on
curling bottom lip in. No frenulum problems and palate normal. Mother tried
everyting I suggested to get baby to latch better. Extremely sore nipples.
Suck training ala Chele Marmet techniques did not help. Mother persisted
despite soreness and lack of stools. Plenty of wet diapers. Extremely
supportive ped said baby was healthy and well hydrated and to continue
nursing despite weight dropping to 8 lbs.1 oz at its lowest (on my digital
scale). At 16 days and no stool since meconium ped suggested 4 oz ABM in
bottle once a day. Mother used feeding device with 1 oz at 4 feeds instead.
Quickly went to 26 oz of ABM, mostly in lactation device with occasional
bottle and weight began to rise. Mother spent time talking with Jimmie Avery
about lactation device about what to expect. Baby began to feed constantly
and fall asleep at the breast shortly after latch (still shallow and with lip
curled in) and whenever mother attempted to detach baby would act hungry and
frantic. This would go on for most of day. Now getting about 20 oz of ABM
via lactation device, about 7 times a day and occasional bottle. (Mother
always pumped when a bottle was given.) This is down from a high of 28 oz. so
I interpret that to mean baby is getting more breast milk. Some good days,
many days bad. Baby can now open wide for latch but frequently won't unless
crying, weighs 10 lbs 15 oz, and mother fears she can't keep this up. Wonders
what it is doing to her relationship with baby to constantly put her on and
then take her off to try to get a better latch. Often mother puts up with
less than ideal latch rather than frustrate baby. I'm so impressed with this
mother's determination. Saw speech therapist Ann Toolajian last week and it
came out that mother has TMJ which Ann thinks baby has. (Plan to put question
about TMJ on my history form!) Did some cranio-sacral work and have joint
apt. with Ann and John Chappel, PT but not until next week.
First child, now 2, born after long labor with epidural, and vacuum
extration had horrible suck problem and mother pumped for several months so
baby (boy) only got pumped breast milk despite many trips to LC. Mother
atended LLL all through pregnancy and is really dedicated to getting
breastfeeding to work.
Mother, this week, developed a cystocele and is supposed to be doing
bladder retraining involving urinating every hour for a week, then every hour
and a half for the next week and then every 2 hours for the duration to avoid
infection. Seems to be controversy between docs over whether kegels will
help. Mother already feels there is no time in her day for her 2 year old
and newborn (who is nursing constantly) and now she has this added dilema.
Any suggestions to improve the latch that I haven't thought of?
TIA for your collective wisdom.
Gerri, IBCLC in central NJ
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:47:15 -0500
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [Fwd: twins/pump]
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Janna, hi, my name is Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC. I work exclusively with mothers
of multiples and have twins of my own. While I understand your clients doctors
concern regarding feeding both babies the same way, it is important to
understand that this problem is self limiting and will disapear as soon as the
baby has time to grow abit. There was a time when one of my twins was
exclusively breastfed and the other took only bottles. It's not fun, but it is
manageable and with work will resolve. Both of my twins went on to be
exclusively breastfed for an extended period of time. In my mind, I couldn't
reconsile removing breastfeeding from one child for no other reason than what
another child was doing. What a shame that would be. It did, however, provide
me with excellent motivation for working with my other twin until he to was
completely on the breast. If the mom is feeling overwhelmed by nursing,
pumping, and bottlefeeding, (very common among twin moms), suggest that she
worry about a full supply for both a little later and concentrate on her
success with the one twin and continue to attempt to nurse the other before
each bottle (every day will make a difference in this baby's oral abilities).
Even if he can not latch on at all, continue to make the attempt, along with
lot's of skin to skin contact. Is this baby's oral developement abnormal or
just premmie? I'd be happy to work further with you on this if you like.
Denny
[log in to unmask]
972/235-1086 (Texas)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:47:56 -0500
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Subject: [Fwd: twins and HELLP]
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Subject: Re: twins and HELLP
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Liz, I'm so sorry about the difficult situation your friend has been going
through. Yes, of course, give her my info. Additionally, my phone# is
972/235-1086. ASAP have her get in touch with Judy Pyle at
[log in to unmask] She is the contact for the HELLP syndrome support
group for lay and professional people and is a terrific source of information
as well as support and encouragement. She will find MANY other moms there who
have gone through just what she has. Also, if she considers having more
children at sometime, there is essential info there for her. If she agrees,
please forward her info to me. The oral defensiveness you described is very
common in very premature infants due to the extremely aggressive treatments
needed to ensure their survival. At the time, future feeding difficulties seem
like a blessing, considering many will be fortunate to have a baby to feed at
all. This situation is best handled with the help of a really good OT
(occupational therapist). I imagine your friend already has her kids seeing
one, as well as a PT (physical therapist). If not, they need to get on this
ASAP for the best long term benefits and advantages. She may already expect
for her twins to need help with these areas as well as others, like speech
therapy. How many weeks was she when she delivered? My brother has a special
needs child who also was very orally defensive. They have lot's of info on
special services and internet support services. If your friend is interested,
I can put them in contact as well.
Best wishes to your friend and also to you for your new career as an IBCLC.
Welcome!
Denny
Liz Brooks wrote:
>
> Denny -- I am a fledgling IBCLC just outside Phila.
>
> Your Lactnet post really stood out for me -- a friend (whom I don't see
> often enough)is home with her now-10-month old twin boys who were born
> very prematurely after her own near-fatal HELLP experience.
>
> The littlest guy weighs just ten pounds; born at just over 1.0 I think,
> and has been diagnosed with failure to thrive (along with dozens of other
> maladies, poor guy). Mom was just lamenting to me in an e-mail (the way
> we seem to communicate best these days) about their troubles getting him
> to eat -- aggravated by the fact that he has an aversion to having
> anything placed in his mouth; no doubt a result of those assaultive (my
> term) first months in the NICU. She had tremendous BF support in the
> hospital and after discharge. Pumped like mad; had great volume. I don't
> know how much bmilk her sons are getting at this point -- if any at all.
>
> Anyway -- she wondered if I had any clever ideas for getting this little
> guy to put on some weight. I was stumped as I read her e-mail -- went on
> to Lactnet for "a fix" -- and there was your post.
>
> Do you have any clever ideas? Would you be willing to have me share your
> e-mail address with her, so she could give you a better picture of her
> situation? She is not an IBCLC -- not a Lactnet subscriber -- just a
> frazzled working mom with twins!
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
>
> ===
> Liz Brooks, JD, IBCLC
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
--------------152B5F15600F4CC544A5A29F--
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:03:26 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tort.
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Kate, how terribly frustrating for you and that poor mom! Shame on the lazy
attitudes that she has encountered. I have had success previously with adding
an OT (occupational therapist) to the support group. Have mom try positioning
the baby as follows, sit baby upright, legs in front, facing the breast.
Gently support the back of the head with opposite hand and support the breast
to the appropriate height with the other. At first mom may have to lean
forward a bit, if the baby is still pretty floppy. Wish I could draw you a
picture!
Keep trying, I'm confident that this mom can successfully bf this baby, in
spite of the LC help she got!
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:08:01 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: supply
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Anne, welcome and congratulations on your new baby!
Please consider a sweat test for CF on this baby.
Sincerely,
Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:41:50 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ugh! radio program on breastfeeding
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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It was Radio 4's Woman's Hour, Anna, and I heard it.
Not as mad or bad as your mum said!
Did not hear it all, though, as I must have missed the bit about bottle teats.
The experiece of the fair haired woman was that someone had seen her at a
party and said (erroneously, of course) she'd be bound to have problems
breastfeeding...but in fact the ensuing discussion revolved around the fair
woman's inverted nipples. The party guest told the woman with inv. nipples
that her husband should suck them out to help them stand out before the
baby comes...she did this, it worked, and bf went fine.
Well, said the presenter, that could be a useful tip for some.
(of course, I know it wasn't evaluated in the famous MAIN trial : ))
The writer of the letter said, it's not something that everyone would feel
able to suggest to women, and she said it could be in a leaflet instead.
Well, only if it's been evaluated, though...a survey where n=1 needs some
further replicating...but with 'normal' ie non-adhesions inverted nipples,
it would have nothing but pleasurable side effects if the couple were happy
about it : )
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc Newcastle upon Tyne UK
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:24:34 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Nicole Bernshaw <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Huntsman Cancer Institute
Subject: Apologies
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Lactnetters,
I have to apologize for double messages (Oprah related) which have crept in last
night originating from my computer. In isolating these messages for printing, they
somehow got sent to the mailing list. I cannot understand how it happened but I will
find out another way to print.
Sincerely,
Nicole Bernshaw
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:29:41 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: reaction to fluconazole
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i have a client who is sensitive to everything, and is having the
diarrhea/nausea reaction to the initial dose of fluconazole. has anyone seen
these symptoms improve while taking this? she is quite motivated to continue
treatment, but is feeling dizzy and weak along with it, and is reluctant to
continue if it is not going to improve. i am also assuming that the other
azole drugs might have the same effect on her. she has already used nystatin
and gentian violet without success.
carol brussel IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:26:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jane and Fred Squires <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ezzo
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I just received this in the mail from a local church:
"Growing kids gods way guideline (we're happy for your interest!)
1. Faithful attendance at the 18 sessions is expected. (Please miss no
more than 3 sessions.) Sessions are scheduled for Wednesdays, 6:45-8:15pm
from June 2 through Sept 1. In addition the class will need to agree on a
weeknight or weekend time for 4 other sessions, when you will need to
arrange your own childcare.
2. Please pay $20.00 per person for your notebook. (Two notebookds
required per couple.) Please make out checks payable to the church. This
is your only charge for this course.
3. Please pick up your young children Wednesdays at 8:15 pm so that our
volunteer church staff are not detained. (if the class goes past 8:15 you
or your spouse will need to get your child.)
4. Do all reading and written homework. Be ready to discuss in class.
5. Honor the following requests:
a. Avoid disagreeing with the presentation during class or discussion
sessions. This can discourage others. (Discuss any problem one on one with
group leader)
b. In order to avoid offending others it is suggested that you do not
share the informationwith others not in the class unless they initiate
questions. (Parenting is controversial) If they see the behavior of your
children improve they may initiate questions. The, you have an open door
and can feel free to share."
I thought I would share this with you.
Jane Squires
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:45:04 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Kay Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sinai Health System
Subject: baking soda treatment is obsolete
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I believe that Dr. Lawrence voiced a concern regarding this issue in the
1989 edition of her book.
I only have the 94 and 99 ed. here in the office. As a result of that,
La Leche League revised their suggestions for the treatment of thrush.
The BAB states "using clear water" to rinse the nipples after a feeding.
Some practitioners recommend a vinegar rinse of the nipples after
feedings; but not the infants mouth.
Mary Kay Smith, CLE, IBCLC, APL
Romeoville, IL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:39:32 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dublin LC Needed
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Can someone please email me any IBCLCs etc in Dublin Ireland? Email
privately please.
Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
mailto:[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:58:47 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: fluconazole
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Carrol, I have seen this reaction in several moms, particularly if they
received a loading dose. In each case, the n/v and diarrhea resolved after a
few days, no treatment necessary.
Denny
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:51:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: newborn weight
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An LC friend and I were talking about the often-stated idea that babies
whose mothers have had IVs in labor may have an inflated birthweight, thus
making the subsequent weight loss sound worse than it really is. We were
wondering if this was just a theory or if it had been validated by research.
Does anyone know of any research data on this? If not, it sounds like a good
avenue for research. Miriam
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:18:12 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Anna Hayward <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HELP! Positional torticollis
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi Kate,
(sorry about the spelling) I am afraid I don't know about the specifics
of this situation, but I related to this part:
>I can't believe they told a mother that there was no way to
>increase her milk supply at 3 weeks postpartum and to give up!!
>Thank you for your help.
Why, why, why do people advise women to give up breastfeeding because
they cannot breastfeed exclusively? Not that I think supplementing with
formula should be anything less than a last resort, but *even* if the
doctor recommends ("orders") formula supplementation, why is it I so
often come across women who've been told to *give up*. Surely, it's up
to the mother to decide if she wants to give up entirely?
From supporting a mother in an attempt to relactate, I have seen how
some HCPs despised her 2oz yields and considered it worthless to her
baby. And yet, those 2oz made such a huge difference to her FTT baby.
She was very educated, and a somewhat exceptional mother, but I really
believe that many more mothers would be prepared to continue
breastfeeding and/or pumping, even if only partially, if they realised
just how much difference a little breastmilk can make.
And ofcourse, as your story illustrates, yields often can be improved
and babies often can be got back to the breast. It just seems that
outside our little group of Lactnetters, the world at large is very
pessimistic about breastfeeding and under-values breastmilk. When I was
supporting the mother relactating, I tried to find research and studies
to support her and my view that a little breastmilk was a lot better
than none, but I didn't find much. Is it just not there, or are we
mistaken? I can't honestly believe we are.
--
Anna H.
mailto: [log in to unmask]
http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: JUNO
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Just a note...there are big problems with JUNO. Anyone you know who has JUNO
may not be rec'ing Lactnet due to a problem with their server.
Please refer those friends on JUNO to Juno sysops for further help. There is
nothing we can do about it on our end.
Thanks. Kathleen
Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
Williston, Vermont
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:42:34 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sister Miriam Bauerlin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: INTRODUCTION
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Although I have been an off and on Lactnet subscriber for several years,
I was a lurker (I think thats what is meant by a person who just reads
but doesnt get really involved.) I need some help and I thought of
Lactnetters as a solution. My name is Miriam Bauerlin. I am a Sister of
St. Francis, an IBCLC since 1995 and I live in Maryland, and my work is
mainly with young low-income pregnant women. A group of us have formed
a corporation and are applying for an IRS # (?) so we can apply for
grants. In the meantime, our group finds itself wantint to keep goo
documentation. Herein lies the problem...When I was at BocaRaton for
the ILCA Conf. there was a vendor for computer software specifically for
Lactation Consultants. I cannot locate the Name or telephome # in order
to contact them. Can anyone help me? It just dawned on me ..it is the
beginning of a holiday week-end. But..Sincerely, Sr. Miriam
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:12:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: If you could
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I am updating a course for nurses. What would you like to see under the
heading WORKING WITH A LACTATION CONSULTANT?
In other words what would you like nurses to know about working with you as
an LC? How can they make your job better (Other than not pushing ABM and
pacifiers)?
Please respond off list.
Thanks
Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:26:51 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: bathing newborns
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My fourth (and last!) baby was born at home and my midwife advised me not to
bathe her for around two weeks. She smelled wonderful! The vernix was
massaged into her skin and she never had any skin problems.
As an interesting side note, about 5 days pp, two of my friends came over and
each held the baby. My baby then smelled like their perfumes, and it was
deeply disturbing to me - I felt like a mother cat. It's interesting how
seemingly unimportant things can have such an impact on early
mothering/breastfeeding.
Kim Sherwood, LLLL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:33:29 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: scheduled feedings
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In a message dated 5/27/99 7:32:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< I was saying that animals (thinking of primates) nurse their young on
demand and she replied that that wasn't true of all species - pigs,
apparently, nurse their young when it's convenient for them and have
conscious control of their letdown. If a mother pig is worried or
frightened, she can actually refuse to nurse her young altogether, and
even if they can get to latch on, they get no milk without her consent.
So there you have it. Scheduled feeding is natural - for a pig! >>
Humans do that too - it can be hard to get a letdown under certain stressful
situations. All mammals are like that - it is no time to lie down and nurse
if a bear is about to make you his lunch! The pig is not thinking, "hmmm, I
should really get those piglets on a schedule..." she is just following her
survival instincts!
Kim Sherwood, LLLL
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:11:29 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Bratt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bathing babies
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In Baltimore, Maryland, it was common practice in the seventies, in the
hospitals, to take the baby away from the mother and bathe the poor
creature at once. Happened to our second, despite her mother's objections.
Have to confess that as, chief resident in Pediatrics, I "sided' with the
nurse.
But Katherine, how can you call that part, the "dirty" part? As well as
all those lovely germs that you want the mother and baby to develop
immunity to!
David, Trini ped.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:15:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Interesting GAO report
Comments: cc: [log in to unmask]
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Check out this interesting GAO (US Govt) report I found. Particularly
interesting is the section on "key characteristics of the US infant formula
market".
http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=gao&docid=f:rc98146.txt
Katie Allison Granju
Knoxville, TN
http://www.attachmentparent.com/
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:32:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: URGENT! Please help with "Cows Udderly Agree" Promo!
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I had a call from Chik-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
saying
that you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows Udderly
Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFAs willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent a list of benefits of breastfeeding to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps locales can organize a certain day to meet and eat at CFA, alert
the media, and promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
It is time to educate the nation just how important breastmilk is for
our children. This is a positive way to get our message across. I have
no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
Will someone alert Larry Gardner, Ruth Lawrence, your breastfeeding
products compan(ies), LLL, and others -- come on guys -- post your
ideas! (I have e-mailed Richard Weston @ Medela already).
Kathleen, I want to repeat this post several times, but the only way I
know is to "forward" it and have a double header. Please tell me how to
do it differently so I don't have to type out each message, if the
"forward" idea won't fly.
Thanks,
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:28:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ezzo instructions to parents
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"5. Honor the following requests:
a. Avoid disagreeing with the presentation during class or discussion
sessions. This can discourage others. (Discuss any problem one on one with
group leader)
b. In order to avoid offending others it is suggested that you do not
share the informationwith others not in the class unless they initiate
questions. (Parenting is controversial) If they see the behavior of your
children improve they may initiate questions. The, you have an open door
and can feel free to share."
YIKES!!! Never mind the content of the classes, I'd run the opposite
direction, as fast as my stubby little legs could carry me, from ANY class
that asked me not to disagree with the presentation and not to share the
information with others!
Am I abnormally cranky, or is this not a HUGE red flag to *anybody*
considering the class? And if you truly believed that "god" has "a way" s/he
wants you to raise your children, wouldn't you want to shout it from the
rooftops? "...to avoid offending others", my foot!
This is really scary to me - it smacks of strange cult behaviour, not to
mention sounding deeply paranoid. Seriously, have I just become so
cantankerous and curmudgeonly that I'm making a big deal out of nothing
much?
Cathy Bargar, RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:27:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: gima <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LC in Mountain View CA
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I need the name of a board certified LC in or near Mountain View California. It is near Palo Alto.
TIA
Pat Gima, IBCLC
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:48:26 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Urgent! "Cows Udderly Agree" Promo Needs YOU
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I had a call from Chick-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
sayingthat you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows
Udderly
Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFA's willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent a list of benefits of breastfeeding to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps locales can organize a certain day during WBW to meet and eat at
CFA, alert the media, and promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
It is time to educate the nation just how important breastmilk is for
our children. This is a positive way to get our message across. I have
no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
I give my permission for this post to be printed, faxed, forwarded
electronically, read, quoted, etc. for the purpose described above.
Let's get going!
Thanks, ALL, for your help!
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:46:31 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Cathy Bargar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pedal pump
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Glad you mentioned the Pedal Pump. When I was was at WIC, I purchased
several of these, thinking they would be a really excellent solution to the
problem of never having enough electric pumps to meet the need. I found that
most moms didn't really like using the pedal pump; not sure why. Some said
it took "coordination", some just plain didn't like it. Which I thought was
a shame, because it really seems like a good idea. Maybe there was some
sense that it wasn't "as good as" the heavy-duty electric pumps, or that
they were being foisted off with second-best.
Have others of you out there had better luck with this pump? It really does
seem like a nifty gadget to me!
Cathy Bargar RN, IBCLC Ithaca NY
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:38:15 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jamie Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tongue thrusting
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In addition to neonatal tongue thrusting, there's acquired tongue thrusting, in
which the tongue pushes forward from the alveolar ridge to the teeth during a
swallow. It's associated with long-term use of artificial nipples, and it's
also linked to speech problems (particularly distortions of /s, z, sh, zh/).
When I was working as a speech pathologist, we would get occasional referrals
for swallowing therapy from orthodontists, who had told parents that there was
not much point in shelling out big bucks to correct an overbite if a kid was
going to be pushing the teeth forward with his tongue 2000 times a day. There
are appliances which aim to keep the tongue back, but the orthodontists we
worked with didn't seem to have much faith in them.
Everything I know about acquired tongue thrusting I learned on the job, so I
don't have references. But there's a FL speech pathologist named Daniel
Garliner who has written a lot about it, if anyone is interested.
Yet another way breastfeeding saves money--this time ten or twelve years down
the line.
Jamie Smith (CCC-SLP)
LLLL in Edinburgh
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:21:54 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jamie Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Christian support for attachment parenting
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One option for Christian families (particularly Catholics) looking for support
for attachment parenting (or anti-Ezzo ammunition) is the Couple to Couple
League. They publish _Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing_, which includes
lots of good mothering advice as well as info on breastfeeding amenorrhea.
Sheila Kippley, the author, is (or at least was) an LLLL, and her book reflects
LLL philosophy. In addition, CCL has a newsletter which always includes
articles on breastfeeding and on attachment parenting. Within the past year
the newsletter ran two lengthy articles on why the Ezzo approach is bad for
breastfeeding and certainly not intrinsically Christian.
One caveat: CCL's primary function is to teach natural family planning. It
was founded by Catholics with very clear beliefs about sexual morality and
related issues (like abortion). After following the Tabitha Walrond thread, I
am guessing that some of you might be personally uncomfortable with their
points of view; just wanted to be clear about what they stand for besides
attachment parenting. They're at www.ccli.org.
Jamie Smith
LLLL in Edinburgh
and CCL NFP teacher
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:05:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths
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I'm trying to catch on on posts hopefully being on call this weekend will
allow me to do so.
Anyway I feel the reason for the baby bath is becasue as said the risks of
contacting body fliuds. This may be HIV, Hep B, HepC etc.
We have begun delaying the bath here for bonding/ feeding purposes. That was
the idea of some "pushing pro-breastfeeding ped on staff. :-)
BTW that guy even did his own baby's bath 2 months ago.
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:10:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Robert Cordes DO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: baby baths (non BF)
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That last post reminded me of my first son's newborn bath.
Weeks prior to his delivery I had told the L&D nurses not to bath him b/c my
wife wanted to. I was joking but they took me seriously.
While my wife has in labor I came down with food poisoning so about 1 hour
post delivery I crawled off with some Tigan to sleep. When I rejoined them
Deb was getting back from the bath room and Ryan was in an isollette. She
explained he just had a bath.
The nurse thought she wanted to do the bath and Deb then thought it was
routine for the mom to do it! Everybody was happy.
(I was too after 2 liters of IV fluid)
-Rob
Rob Cordes, DO, FAAP, FACOP
Wilkes Barre PA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:22:08 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Your help is needed for "Cows Udderly Agree" promo
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I had a call from Chick-fil-A this morning! They have sent the request
over to marketing. The caller noted, with surprise, that CFA had
received 12 e-mails this morning promising support.
Please! Take a moment TODAY to email Chik-fil-A and send a *brief* note
sayingthat you will help defray the cost of the Chick-fil-A "Cows
Udderly Agree" campaign by taking your family of (#) to eat a meal at
CFA during
World Breastfeeding Week; also, (if you can do so) that you will order
at least one T-shirt; and that you appreciate CFA's willingness to get
involved in educating future mothers, and others, about this important
health care issue.
To re-cap the campaign, I have asked CFA to draw up an ad with a couple
of cows, possibly nursing their calves, with the ad reading "Cows
Udderly Agree: Human Milk is Best for Babies. World Breastfeeding
Week, August 1 - 7". This would be printed on the paper tray cover and
on the T-shirt. Also, I sent CFA a list of benefits of breastfeeding
to
mom, the baby, and the financial resources of our government and health
care system -- to all families in general-- and asked that CFA print
the list on the side of the ad, or the back of the paper tray.
Perhaps breastfeeding advocates at various locales can organize a
certain day during WBW to meet and eat at CFA, alert the media, and
promote the cause.
I saw my doctor this morning and he excitedly said he would put the word
out in his realm of influence. If we *all* did this, CFA can hardly say
"no"! Right now, we definitely have their attention. Let's get their
committment!
Please e-mail (remember, keep it short!) them at:
http://www.chick-fil-a.com/content/feedback/feedback/.htm
Of course, if you commit to any of the above methods of support, please
follow through! Who knows where this could lead next year? Maybe a
breastfeeding ad on their paper sacks?! :) It is time to educate the
nation just how important breastmilk is for our children.
I have no doubt that a great deal of local (and possibly greater) media
coverage can ensue from this project. WE CAN DO IT!
I give my permission for this post to be printed, faxed, forwarded
electronically, read, quoted, etc. for the purpose described above.
Let's get going!
Thanks, ALL, for your help!
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:39:12 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Patty Shoults Rn, Ibclc" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 26 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-282)
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I am looking for an update on the bill which requires employers to provide
lactating women time to pump thier milk. I assume this is Federal. Are there
limitations on the size of the employer group or are all employers effected?
I wanted to make local employers aware of this to increase breastfeeding
awareness. Thanks Patty IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:53:25 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sharing Pumps
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Here is a good example of why it is NOT a good idea to lend pumps to friends:
This week I had a call from a woman who was given a PIS by a friend. After
her second attempt, she called to tell me her nipple "ballooned." I asked
her what the pump was set on and she seemed confused. She did not even
realize it had a pressure setting. Of course it was set on high. My next
question was, "How long did you pump?" 45 minutes!!!!!!! She said that was
what her friend had told her to do and there was no information with the
pump. Ouch!! I just hope that she hasn't caused damage to her nipple which
will affect breastfeeding.
Just my thougts
Linda Goldberg, RN, CCE, aspiring LC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:18:39 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - IVs and birthweight
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In a message dated 5/28/99 4:40:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< often-stated idea that babies
whose mothers have had IVs in labor may have an inflated birthweight, thus
making the subsequent weight loss sound worse than it really is. >>
I think I read this in Henci Goer's "Obstetric Myths vs Research Realities"
my copy is lent out or I'd check. If anyone has any other concrete
references I'd appreciate a copy by private email since my lactnet reading is
sporadic at best these days.
Elaine Ziska
Jackson, MS
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:40:06 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Dettwyler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chik-Fil-A
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I sent a brief email to Chik-Fil-A, along with complimenting/thanking them
for hiring the handicapped -- we have a good friend who is a young woman
with Down Syndrome who has worked for Chik-Fil-A since she was 16. It is a
good job for her. I got a very nice personalized note back. Chik-Fil-A is
not open on Sundays (corporate policy, so the employees can go to church) --
if this is important to you, mention it, so they really will think we know
about and like Chik-Fil-A, not just are obsessed with breastfeeding.
Kathy Dettwyler
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:04:10 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kate Hallberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Site in Italian
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http://space.tin.it/salute/jjmil/ is a site with some
of our favorite articles translated into Italian by a
parent-l mom! I'm so impressed that she did this, and
I encourage all of you to keep her and the site in
mind if you need it. I'll be studying it for my next
trip to Italy.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:37:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Organization: @Home Network Member
Subject: yeast and resistance to fluconazoloe
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Hi everyone. I am struggling with a mom of 2 week old twins.
She came to me with shooting pains in her back and shoulders,
burning/stinging between feedings, and tearfulness while nursing.
Seemed like a no-brainer. She also has battled yeast for years, had at
one point been on 200mg fluconazole daily for 6 months ( yes, months!)
Anyway, c-sx, got abx, probably got yeast. I have prescriptive
privileges and got info. together to discuss with her ob about treating
he for ductal candidiasis - he had never heard of using diflucan in a
400mg X 1 then 200 mg for up to 4 weeks dose as is suggested in Hale but
agreed to "agree" if I would prescribe it. So I did. And oral nystatin
for the babies. And all purpose nipple ointment (mycolog/bactroban) for
mom's nipples. Things got slightly better for about a week - now are
horrendous and she has a vaginal yeast infection, and signs of ductal
candidiasis. She went to her ob/gyn today who said she'd never heard of
anyone being "resistant" to diflucan, and that if diflucan wasn't making
her breast pain go away, then it wasn't yeast. And then went on to give
a vaginal yeast cream (?Terconazole?) I'm not sure what to do next.
What would you do? thanks....janna zempsky, cpnp, ibclc in w. hartford,
ct.
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:43:46 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: reaction to fluconazole
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<< i have a client who is sensitive to everything, and is having the
diarrhea/nausea reaction to the initial dose of fluconazole. has anyone seen
these symptoms improve while taking this? >>
Dr. Crook's book THE YEAST CONNECTION AND THE WOMAN talks about when yeast is
dying it gives off toxins that can make you sick on your stomach and feel
like the flu. This maybe why some have these side effects. Stomach cramps
and nausea and diarrhea are known side effects of diflucan. If the side
effects are due to the yeast dying, then the side effects will lessen over
time due to less and less yeast left to kill.
I've not have mothers become sick on diflucan, but have had some reports of
baby's being quiet upset or fussy when on diflucan for thrush.
Warmly,
Pat Lindsey, IBCLC
Pediatrics Plus staff LC and private practice
Orando
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:47:53 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pushy BFing people
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Why are we being "pushy, or zealots or radicals" when we advocate for BFing
but the American Cancer Society is seen as being educational when they have a
" World Without Tobacco Day"? Why don't we have a "World Without
Artificial Baby Milk " day?
Seriously, I get tired of being the "different" one in the bunch because I am
the one who voices objections to things like ABM companies having booths at
the Maternity Fair ( their invitation was taken back and they were told that
the committee had a complaint but the rep still sent door prizes and videos
which was used).
On a related note, I had a call this afternoon from a FNP at the big Peds
group ( with the embolism Ped) who called to see what I do. He said that
they had tried to call the Lactation Specialist at the hospital but couldn't
get her so they decided to call me. ( you know, the IBCLC is second choice).
They had a referral. The Mom delivered 6 days ago, and when I asked her what
Meds she was given during labor and delivery she said nothing except the IV.
I then asked what was in the IV. She said, Mag, Pitocin, and also had an
epidural and demerol. Baby was taken away because he was "shaking" and given
glucose in bottles and wasn't brought to her until he was 12 hrs old. He
never nursed and is now 6 days old. Her milk hasn't come in and she wants to
BF. She has pumped once or twice a day with the small battery/electric pump
from the toy store. She never saw anyone at the hospital who offered to help
her BF.
And this is the hospital who wants to apply for Baby Friendly status.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
Ayden NC
(now that I have a BS do I add that to my IBCLC, and if so, before or after?)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 20:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: John McCulloch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baby bathing one more time
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Hello everyone,
I understand that a newborn does not need or require a bath while in the
hospital. At our hospital, I know that "the bath" is one thing on a long
list of required things for the nurses to do before the baby is discharged.
I honestly don't know of any mom requesting that her baby not get "the
bath." I guess we all have it so ingrained that the bath is good for the
baby. I appreciate the knowledge you all have to share and thank you for
inspiring me to think on this subject.
I remember my son, especially, hated his bath until he was about a month old
or so. I wonder if this could be related to the circumcision? I will say,
however, that once my children were a few months old it seemed that bath
time was a very enjoyable time for both of us. It seemed to calm them and
provided a great time to do some baby massage. Also, even though they were
all breastfed and not sick often, when they were not feeling well, the bath
seemed to help them relax a bit and seemed to help them fall asleep more
peacefully. Maybe it was the Chamomile I used in the bath. Who knows?
Anyway, for whatever reason, I admit I am one of those moms who gives the
baby a bath every day. It just seems like little babies get so dirty
getting into things all day. Once they start to eat solid food too they got
so messy that we threatened to just take them outside and hose them down.
That is a joke, but seriously, they did get awfully messy! As they get
older, say 4 or 5, we switched to bathing every other day. Luckily, their
eating habits had improved by then!
Again, thanks for all the interesting discussion.
Lori McCulloch
WIC Breastfeeding Coordinator and Peer Counselor
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From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 27 May 1999 - Special issue (#1999-290)
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:05:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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This was posted several weeks ago but I would like to repeat for those new to
the group. Please add your location to your signature line, and maybe your
job affiliation so we can get an idea of who is doing what where.
Barbara Whitehead, IBCLC
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:15:17 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Contacting Chick-fil-A
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I have had a few e-mails from folks who said they had trouble getting to
the Chick-fil-A site from the address on my posts. I'm not sure why,
because I have tried it 3 or 4 times over the last 2 days, and just did
so successfully again. Perhaps they are getting so many hits that some
are being blocked? Let's hope! However, to shorten the e-mail address
a bit, try
http://www.chick-fil-a.com
and work through the menu to get to the feedback/comment page.
Also, a couple of you are not familiar with CFA -- too bad! They have a
*wonderful* fried or grilled chicken sandwich, chicken salad, soup,
lemonade, brownies, sweet tea, etc. They are often located in malls,
but have fairly recently opened separate restaurants of the fast-food
variety.
The owner, Mr. Cathy is an elderly gentleman who is a strong supporter
of families and children. The headquarters is based in Atlanta, GA.
Even if there is not a restaurant near you, you may be able to order a
T-shirt just by e-mailing a request for their catalog -- assuming they
make the shirt and put it in it!
They started a very delightful ad campaign a few years ago featuring
cows which encourage us to "Eat mor chikin", which have stated that "5
out of 5 cows agree" that chicken is good or healthful, or something
like that. There have been quite a few cute slogans, and roadside
billboards being "painted" by a cow which is standing on the back of
another cow (one of my favorites).
To answer another question, the "Cows udderly agree" is not one they
have used, but one I came up with and have offered to them for World
Breastfeeding Week and this whole endeavor. BTW, I am not trying to say
"utterly", but "udderly", (someone had a question about the slogan, with
the "correct" spelling of "utterly" -- which is *incorrect* for this
campaign.....oh you get the idea !
I will post the promo a few times a day, to alert those who have been
"unsubscribed". Again, please print, attach, fax, distribute, etc. with
my permission and blessings.
Oh, yes....one more thing. I do not own stock in CFA, nor have I met or
am related to any employee (that I am aware of)! If the Taco Bell
Chihuahua were not a male, who knows? We might be writing Taco Bell
instead.....but those cows are sooooo funny!
Let's keep this going over the holiday weekend as best we can, but
really in earnest next week.
By working together, we can pull this off.........otherwise, we could be
waiting til the cows come home for another opportunity of this type.
In other words, we should milk this for all its worth. ;)
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:20:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Sandy Hess <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thanks, Kathy D.
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Kathy, that was good advice you posted. Thanks for contacting
Chick-fil-A and for the suggestions.
Sandy
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:15:21 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Stearns, Crystal" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mom with impaired immunity
Comments: To: "LACTNET (E-mail)" <[log in to unmask]>
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Good Morning,
I do Mental Health with the Red Cross and Coordinate Critical Incident
Stress management for my hospital and the Southeast part of the state of
Oklahoma. Your patient sounds like she maybe dealing with stress induced
immune problems. This is very common in people who have or are dealing with
major stress in theirs lives, i.e. new baby, moving. I saw a lot of this in
the firefighters after the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995. She may need to
increase her vitamin C and B complex vitamins. I would be glad to fax or
mail you a pamphlet on nutrition, that we give out during a critical
incident debriefing.
Hope this helps
Crystal Stearns RNC, MS, IBCLC
Mercy Memorial Health Center
Ardmore, OK 73401
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori C. Salisbury [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:31 PM
> Subject: Mom with impaired immunity
>
> Lactnetters,
> I got a call yesterday from a mom breastfeeding her baby who is almost 6
> months old. She states these past few months she has had several bouts of
> sickness (colds, flu) lasting 2 - 3 weeks each. States she is usually a
> very healthy person. States her husband is encouraging her to stop
> nursing
> because he thinks the breastfeeding is "taking her immunities". I
> explored
> other possible reasons for her being more sick, and she agreed that she
> has
> been under several "life changes" recently. In the past year she has
> moved,
> changed jobs, and had a baby, who is now in daycare while she works.
> My general suggestions were for her to continue breastfeeding, and that
> the
> more likely cause for her increase in illness is more likely due to her
> stress factors/life changes, plus being exposed to the germs her daughter
> is
> getting in daycare. She said that her daughter has had a couple colds and
> a
> couple ear infections - states neither were bad. I emphasized that her
> daughter likely would have had more illnesses and been sicker with the
> ones
> she had if she wasn't breastfed.
> I know that breastfeeding doesn't "take immunities" from the mother, but
> that the breast manufactures them specifically for baby, but does anyone
> know of any more specific research or information about mom's immunities,
> etc. while breastfeeding? I told this mom I would ask you and she is
> anxious for any more information about this. So far she is hanging in
> there
> and breastfeeding nearly exclusively (small amounts of formula needed
> while
> she works despite pumping 3 times during her work day), but any more
> information would be appreciated. Please email me since I'm not up to
> date
> on my posts. ([log in to unmask])
> Thanks,
> Lori Salisbury, RN, IBCLC
> hospital based LC in Spokane WA
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:57:55 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Denny Rice, RN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: yeast
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Janna, "the Yeast Connection" by William G. Crook, M.D. has lots of good info
for people who have and or carry systemic yeast. Much has to do with dietary
control.
Denny Rice, RN. IBCLC
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