Sandra Lang's (UK midwife cited in her book Breastfeeding the special care baby) study described the difference between quality and quantity. As a few of us who have always taught hand expression suspect that while there may be less quantity there is more quality in hand expressed milk. This also may justify my comment in an earlier email about the LC ?obsession with quantities and pumping. Some women who express heaps of milk by pump find they may be called to the creche while at work because their baby has consumed all of the huge quantities but is satisfied from a breastfeed in between. A film put out by UNESCO about 20 years ago demonstrates black South African women hand expressing. They do not tentatively squeeze the breast, but a bit like Jack Newman's compression and release literally Pound the breast but in a very rhythmic and smooth way. The reason why dairy farmers pump (my son-in-law is one ( up to 400 cows) grrrr) is that they need quantity not quality. those poor little calves will always get the colostrum and are fed the strippings at the end of the milking!!!! for fattening. Cheers and happy thanksgiving (were they breastfeeding on the day of whatever you are celebrating?) Beverley Walker Melbourne Australia