FROM: Sturgess, Frances Coulter TO:[log in to unmask] SUBJECT: LACTNET Lisa JOnes - 12 Dec 1996 DATE: 12-13-96 19:33 EST PRIORITY: RE mothering without breastfeeding YES!!! I don't understand this distancing either (note attached)--and when someone says "Dad wants tofeed the baby" I am tempted to respond "and will he mix the artificaial milk, and clean the bottles, and do his laundry when the baby spits the stuff up and do the diapering too?" all that goes with it...I suppose the "freedom" stuff has partly to do with the sheer NUMBERS of unplanned pregnancies--at one point, over 80% of ALL women admitted the baby was unplanned--not unwanted, but unplanned...Don't know for a fact and people will probably argue with me but i cant help but feel most brf moms feel closer sooner to their infants than those that "must" artif feed--if only becauseof hormones --would have loved to experince that myself... --------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:30:38 -0500 From: Lisa Jones <[log in to unmask]> Subject: mothering without breastfeeding . But it is not *what* she feeds her baby that boggles my mind, but *how*. One can bottlefeed attachment-style, after all, but I simply never see this. What I see is propping bottles, babies in carseat/stroller with mom giving bottle distractedly, precious little holding of baby at all. The happiest day in the life of these moms is the day when the baby can hold his or her own bottle. What is the deal???? Breastfeeding or not, I want to HOLD my babies! As for moms who want *others* to be able to feed their babies, does anyone else actually do it day in and day out? does dad do middle of the night feed? does MIL take baby in the wee hours to give bottle? Or is it *usually* still the mom who feeds the baby?? My guess is that it is still mom, so she rejected breastfeeding as too "constricting" for no real benefit to either her or the baby. Sign me frustrated in south Florida, Lisa Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:32:41 -0500 From: Lisa Jones <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Why I breastfed (feed) I had to think about this a little bit because I don't recall ever making the *decision* to breastfeed. My mother breastfed all four of us for varying lengths of time, I was the longest nursed (9 months). My father was in the military, this was in the early 1960's, and mom has told me that the military doctors were all young and pretty progressive, encouraging "natural" childbirth and thus the greater potential to breastfeed. My mom even read Grantly-Read then! Also, we were stationed both overseas (Okinawa) and far north US (Limestone, Maine) where the supply of foodstuffs was limited. My MIL who had babies also in the early 1960's had an old codger for a doctor and was knocked unconscious for all three of her deliveries. Baby was atleast 24 hours hold before she got to see it never mind HOLD it, and there was no encouragement to breastfeed. Partly, my decision to breastfeed stemmed from the fact that I knew that I wanted to stay at home to care for my children and, well, my breasts were going to stay at home with me so why not use them? I also liked to prove the point that small breasted women can successfully nourish their young :) BTW, my obstetrician NEVER asked me how I intended to feed my baby. Lisa Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:34:50 -0500 From: Lisa Jones <[log in to unmask]> Subject: for Dr. Jack Dear Dr. Newman, I missed it if you posted previously, but exactly what kind of Dr. are you??? I must say, I wouldn't care if you were a podiatrist, but could you please move here to sunny South Florida and be my Doctor?? :) I like your style! Fondly, Lisa Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:34:59 -0800 From: Kimberly Elms <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Why I chose to breastfeed I was a bottle baby and never saw any one breastfeed. My mother died of breast cancer when I was 10, so I always had an assumption that my breasts would be "inadequate." When I got pregnant, I read some material about breastfeeding and it's wonders and woes, but I didn't make a firm decision. As a matter of fact, when I went into the hospital the labor nurse asked if I planned to bottle or breastfeed, and even then I didn't know! I had a terrible birth experience--not what I was wanting *at all*, complete with pit, demerol, *and* an epidural (which worked wonderfully on my right leg from the knee down). When the nurse handed me my son I just felt compelled to put him to breast. He nursed fairly well in the hospital but by day three, he was still sleepy, my nipples were deteriorating rapidly due to poor latch, etc. If only I knew then what I know now :( I was at wits end--this close to throwing in the towel. I remembered hearing about a lactation consultant in my birth class and decided to call. After lots of questions and lots of coaching we finally got the hang of it. My (and my husband's) entire view of parenting changed that day. I can honestly say that my bond with my son and my parenting style is directly attributed to Linda Pohl, IBCLC, Phoenix, Arizona. To her I can never express enough gratitude -- she gave me the ticket to a fantastic experience! -- Kim ----------- Kimberly Elms [log in to unmask] Arizona State University ----------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:19:32 -0700 From: Tami Karnes <[log in to unmask]> Subject: contem ped/herbals I would be interested in reading these articles, where would I go about getting a copy of these publications or just the articles? Does anyone have contact info. for the magazines? Thank you in advance. > I wanted to share two recent articles... > > there is a letter in bf review on the use of herbals that is >excellent! - a must read for all interested in the use of herbals... > > contemp ped. has abn article on adviusing bd mothers when they >become ill.. there are some glaring errors unfortunately... table on pge. 44 >lists bf interuped when.. the listing do not agreee with what is written in >the text and i think that too many will read the table and not the text... >the text states that tetracycline is contraindicated.. it has been aap >approved since 94. also hep c is listed as a contraindication... > > those of you in hospital may want to nab this artiicle and correct >the errors before they come back to haunt.... > > Patricia Wishing you health and wellness! Tami Karnes, Certified Herbalist One With Nature Reiki Practitioner P.O. Box 1724 Sedona, AZ Sedona, AZ 86339-1724 [log in to unmask] (800) 230-5166 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:58:41 -0800 From: Athan and Nancy Kramer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: NPR Transcripts NPR should announce at the beginning of their program, "If you'd like a transcript of this broadcast, well, then, you'd better start writing!" Just trying for a smiley today, Nancy Kramer Port Angeles, WA Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 21:48:56 PST From: Pearl Shifer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: origin of commercial baby milks?/WIC classes Does anyone out there know when the pharmaceuticals began marketing infant formula? I remember my parents making home made formula from evaporated milk and dextrose, sterilizing the bottles in that huge bottle sterilizer back in 1958 when my brother was born. When my sister was born in 1963, we had to mix up Nutramigen for her bec. she didn't tolerate whatever else there was. So, when did Similac etc. come on the scene? I also remember my mother pumping her milk in 1958 when she came home from the hospital, she used the original "bicycle horn" pump that didn't have a storage bottle attached! Those suckers were strictly for relieving engorgement and the milk was dumped! No one would have thought of her actually BREASTFEEDING. This was in Cleveland Ohio. I was born there 9 years earlier and also wasn't breastfed. My brother born in 1948 in Munich was breastfed for 8 months.... Why did I choose to breastfeed? Me, the girl who asked her sister who was breastfeeding if she felt like a cow!!!Yes, I actually said that!! But I saw that sister's mothering style was so much better than those others who did NOT breastfeed. I also feel that breastfeeding is an entire mothering style, not simply a feeding method. When I teach WIC prenatal classes, I don't teach formula feeding, I tell the moms I know nothing about it, they can speak to the nutritionists about it individually. On Thanksgiving I happened to catch a PBS program about polar bear cubs that had been abandoned by their mother, and adopted by the Denver zoo. The zookkeepers spent lots of time with these twins, and they had a terrible time coming up with a suitable "formula". I used that as an analogy, each mammal's specific milk, etc. But my favorite part of the analogy is talking about how the mother bear goes into the cave to give birth and cuddles with the baby til spring when its time to come out! We need to adopt the "cave mentality!" I tell them that if they aren't going to breastfeed, they still need to hold their babies when they bottlefeed.... Pearl Shifer, IBCLC P.S. Speaking of Cleveland, does anyone know if children born there in 1949 were immunized against pertussis? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:35:27 -0500 ate: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:45:15 -0800 From: Moshe Shulman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Why I chose to Breastfeed >Subject: Why I chose to Breastfeed This subject has aroused me out of lurkdom. I remember when my mother gave birth to my youngest brother in 1967, when I was almost 8, and she gave bottles. She wore nursing pads. Iasked her what they were for, and she said that they were to catch dripping milk. I innocently asked why she doesn't just feed that milk to the baby. Answer - because women today don't have milk. Hmmm, how strange; all this extra milk wasn't enough. Also, all the work involved with abm feeding was overwhelming. I never saw anybody breastfeeding until I was 18, and, as might be expected of someone programmed by this culture, I was simultaneously curious and repulsed. Then I lived for a short period of time with a family where the mother was breastfeeding around the clock, even at the dinner table. She had full time domestic help plus me, sort of a mother's helper. I thought this was absurd. Just give the baby a propped bottle and get on with life. So what converted me? I'm not proud of this, but hearing that breastfeeding could rescue me from the terrible periods I suffered was a big factor. So one could say that it's a case of doing something for the wrong reason, and then converting to the right reason. I didn't know anything about protection from disease and allergy. When I had my first baby, I put him to my breast and something indescribable just happened. I just HAD to breastfeed, no matter what. We traveled by plane when he was 3 mo old, and my husband insisted that I give him ebm on the plane so as not to expose myself in public. It felt so cold and impersonal. So now what I don't understand is why more women don't get hooked? (I know, there are real obstacles, but I still see it as a preference for using a wheelchair as opposed to one's own legs.) Devorah Shulman, WIC PC (Sorry about the signature file. I know it's inappropriate, but it's my husband's, and I can't turn it off. -- +=========================+=========================+ | /\ | | | ____/_ \____ | | | \ ___\ \ / | | | \/ / \/ / | Moshe Shulman | | / /\__/_/\ | [log in to unmask] | | /__\ \_____\ | | | \ / | | | \/ | | +=========================+=========================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:46:35 -0500 From: "Kathleen Bodden, RN, BScN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: David and Nofia Altman and the CODE Your question about the picture, (drawing) of the artificial nipple on the bottle of mineral water is against the CODE. Page 12 of the booklet "Protecting Infant Health, A Health Workers Guide to the Code" states that the Code applies to : artificial milks for babies; other products used to feed babies, especially when they are marketed for use in a feeding bottle. The Code also applies to feeding bottles and teats. Kathleen Bodden in Toronto, where a three judge Ontario Court of Appeal overtuned former Guelph resident Gwen Jacob's conviction on charges of committing an indecent act. (She walked bare-breasted through Guelph )on a humid day in July 1991. The newspaper headlines " Women can go topless in public". "Changing a prejudicial law is the first step in changing a society's perceptions. " If we do not wish to be preceived as sex objects, we need to control the context in which we present our bodies as sexual. "If we continue to allow society to define our physical bodies as strictly sexual, we will never get beyond that limited means of expression. We will never by more than slaves to our gender" quoting Gwen Jacobs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:52:13 +0000 From: The Osterholts <[log in to unmask]> Subject: NPR radio NPR has an audio page. If your computer can handle it, you can access the program and listen to the program that aired with Dia Micheals. http://www.realaudio.com/contentp/npr.index.html Assunta Osterholt, IBCLC http://www.earthlink.net/~oster6 ------------------------------