Denise Please be seated - I have some bad news for you - and you may cry - but yes, if you had had his frenum clipped when he was born, you probably would have saved all that money you just spent on ortho. Sorry I had to prove my point that way. That is why I believe in frenotomies and bfing. Please stay seated, I have some more bad news for you - his case may fail or relapse in a few years - because he still has the tongue thrust created by his tight frenum - that is probably what caused the malocclusion. (There are several other reasons that I will cover at the ILCA Conference) From half a world away through 16 hours of time change - I can tell how to check his problem. You will be able to see this easier on the children who have not had ortho yet. Have them swallow, gently separate their lips as they are swallowing, and you will probably see their tongue come up against their front teeth, or even between their front teeth. There may be a space between the upper and lower teeth where the tongue protrudes (this could also occur on the side teeth as well). ALL teeth should touch the teeth of the opposing arch. If the teeth are in contact you may see saliva oozing BETWEEN the teeth. You should NOT see oozing or open spaces. If you see either - he/she/they are deviate swallowers or tongue thrusters. Still more bad news - that is his acquired swallow, even with clipping, he will probably still needs a Speech Therapist with special training in myofunctional therapy to teach him how to swallow properly - the tip of the tongue should start at a point just behind the upper front teeth and then press up against the ROOF of the mouth. Sooorrry for the bad news. But help is on the way for Australia. I have just started correspondence with an enthusiastic speech therapist in Manly NSW - have a letter prepared for her sitting on my desk right now. Will cover more in future postings. Greetings from Kansas City. Brian Palmer D.D.S. 4400 Broadway, Ste 514 Kansas City, MO 64111 eMail - [log in to unmask]