P.S. Jaye, could you tell us the condition these babies had where breast milk was needed to save their lives? That would be a "specific" situation. Absolutely - I have had 2 babies in particular who, when given formula became extremely ill. Both babies had mothers who had low milk supply due to IGT and/or hormonal complications. Baby #1 (now 5 or 6 yrs of age - I don't recall exactly) was being 75% fed on formula, was listless, unhappy, sickly and his color was gray. Mom tried every formula including soy - but baby was miserably ill. Mom begged the Dr for a prescription for donor milk but he refused. Baby was not thriving by any means health wise nor developmentally and had started to lose weight regardless of the amount he was fed. We found a donor who had more than enough milk for her singleton and within 3 days on exclusive human milk started to pink up, become active and alert and started catching up on developmental behavior. At about 6 months, mom had to leave town suddenly and was unable to get enough donor milk to take with her and was forced to supplement with formula for about 4 days. Within the first 24hrs he started turning gray again, by the time she got home he was listless and miserable. She got her donor milk and got him off the formula and he was much improved within a day or so of exclusive human milk. Mom kept him on donor milk until he was fully on solids (about 18 months). Interestingly enough, mom had a 2nd baby a couple years ago and was very nervous about supplementing with formula - but was unable to find a donor that time. Luckily, her 2nd baby did just fine on her milk and formula. Baby number 2 is currently 8 months old and on her own mothers milk as well as donor milk. When she was given formula (starting at 3 days of age) she was miserable - again mother tried every formula out there to no avail. Baby was clearly in pain, vomiting regularly, very ill, and unhappy, not developing well at all and chronically ill. With help from me, mom found a couple of donors and got her off formula. Her Dr actually noted that baby was in distress on formula (while she thrived on donor milk and moms milk) and gladly wrote the prescription for Donor milk. The Insurance company refused to pay for it fully leaving the parents with a $70 per day co-pay they could not afford. Even with the Dr's insistence (he was really cool!) - it was a no go. The insurance company told them that in order to have the milk bank milk paid for 100% baby would have to be hospitalized and put on a feeding tube. So, in order to keep their baby safe, healthy and off formula, they would have to put her back on formula, make her deathly ill, hospitalize her and put her on a feeding tube in order to get banked milk. Disgusting to say the least. Luckily, mom and I were able to find several donors, screen them, and baby has been exclusively human milk fed for the past 7 months. In this mother's case she had similar health issues with her first two daughters who also required supplementation (IGT and PCOS and about 50% supply). No one could figure out why the first two kids were so horrible sick on formula - every type and brand was tired to no avail. Mom got them off formula as soon as they were able and onto solids exclusively. Now we know. Yes these are extremes - but these types of extremes DO happen here in the USA. And it is because of these extremes that we must take a look at what formula causing to happen in our babies bodies. Just because we cannot see it doesn't mean it is not happening. I agree that determining causality down the road for this disease or that is not easy, or perhaps even possible. However, when we know the immediate risks and we know that there are risks that HAVE been documented and researched, we MUST, in my opinion, take a harder look at even the healthy term baby (of whatever age) and if possible, provide them with a food that is Normal for their body...human milk. If we can't - we can't. But if there is any possibility at all...we should. Warmly, Jaye *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome