If nipple pain has become common for the reasons you describe Mary, then I would refer to it is iatrogenic, but that does not mean it is normal. That said, I think a lot is going on in women's breasts due to environmental toxins, use of hormonal contraceptives, poor nutrition and inflammation that may make all of our experience a lot less applicable than we'd like it to be. Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, France Intuitive Parenting Network, LLC "Yesterday in the breastfeeding support group I posed a question to the mothers,"What was a piece of unconstructive or bad advice that you heard from healthcare personnel during your early breastfeeding experience?" I thought as a nurse who has been working in the field 30 plus years that I couldn't be surprised. Unfortunately, I was mistaken. I won't take up space with some of the absurd 'advice' but several mothers surprised me with their response. More than one mother mentioned that hearing a nurse say,"It is not supposed to hurt" was unhelpful. These mothers had seen lactation consultants in the early days for latch assistance and infants were thriving and nipples showed minimal signs of damage,if any. I had been schooled in the theory that no nipple pain is ever normal. I am beginning to rethink this. Some new mothers have poor give to the areola and dense tissue. Most babies are born in our hospital medicated and suctioned and heavily stimulated before going skin to skin. I am wondering, given the abnormal state of birth, whether some nipple pain in some women for the first few weeks may be considered normal, even when latch appears adequate and milk transfer is good. I find myself telling these mothers (after evaluating for sneaky tongue ties etc.) that we've tried to minimize the pain as much as possible and most mothers in these instances get relief in time. What are your thoughts? Mary Westra RN, IBCLC Miami, FL Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, France Intuitive Parenting Network, LLC *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome