Pam it may be in the archives (no time to check) but the little tricks I use are getting the pair as comfortable as possible, asking mom to drop her shoulders and breathe (sometimes she is holding on to baby so very tightly), deep slow breathing usually works best, helping her achieve optimal assymetric latch and sometimes helping mom to do some suck training before helping with latch. These little tight mouthed babes will often relax after mom relaxes, or after the let down when milk is flowing well and they are not so anxious. Most seem to do well with tincture of time. though 8 weeks does seem a long time already. CST may also be a good option if nothing else is working. (Feel free to share) Ruth Bacon IBCLC *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html