Tony With all due respect, please do yourself a favor and take Kathy Dettwyler's suggestion to review this subject in the archives, but especially to read Marsha Walker's and Diane Wiessinger's and Dr. Newman's articles. These are not "unhinged" people! The whole set of nuances changes with the semantics chosen, and makes a terrific difference. The formula companies' advertising knows this well. You will not understand where the vast majority of people on Lactnet are coming from unless you sample the above writings. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." You will be rewarded for your efforts if you take the time to explore these articles. They are part of the seminal literature revealing the part of the basic philosophy which the Lactation Consultant profession has built into its foundation. Jean ****************** K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC Dayton, Ohio USA *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html