Teresa writes: <It does seem to me that some of these babies (as Lynn described) who not only refuse the breast, but actively resist it by pulling back and pushing away from the breast may be in pain. Often when I talk to these mothers they will tell me either that a vacuum extractor or forceps were used, or that it was a very fast, precipitate labour.> Good thoughts to consider, Teresa. I also remember many babies acting this way when their mother's breast was rock hard, especially in the case of mothers with an "A" cup. It was as if they felt their face was up against an unyielding brick wall, which was perhaps even interfering with their TMJ motion (which could also be somewhat painful??). In such cases, I was often able to turn the situation around by not only softening the areola, especially in the plane of the nose and lower jaw, but by creating a sort of "niche" for the baby to bury the chin in while trying to compress with the lower jaw. This was done after softening the areola itself, by starting from 1-2 inches beyond the areola in the area underlying the chin, stroking in the direction of the nipple to move milk outward through the subareolar area. This seemed to reduce the resistance of the breast in the area of the baby's chin. After this was done, (after we had patted and lulled the baby out of the angry, resistant mood), in many instances, the baby was able to get what I then referred to as a "good grasp" and just got right down to business! Though this was many, many years before someone named the concept "latching" and described leading with the chin, in retrospect, it seems compatible with those ideas. Just one more avenue to assess for in individual cases. Jean ***************** K. Jean Cotterman RNC, IBCLC Dayton, Ohio USA (where it was finally above freezing for two days so I could chance going to a car wash and hope my locks don't freeze tonight!) *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html