Several of you have asked if the client who had severe breast pain is a first-time mother. She isn't, but it is the first baby to be breastfed. I wonder if the terrible engorgement that she has described with her first two babies could be contribiting to her ductal pain this time. The poor milk ducts don't know how to act. I am going to approach it as over-active MER ( not necessarily over-supply) or engorgement (cabbage) and assure effective emptying. One breast is already feeling better. One thing that I have read on Lactnet is that mothers with large breasts can have "engorgement" of sorts without the hard-breast symptom. Thank you for all of your suggestions, both private and to the list. Pat Gima, IBCLC Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where I spent 2 hours this morning trying to "de-program" a mother from the clutches of Baby Wise. ARRRGGGGHHH!!! She called me, and I am assuming that she wants her baby back. Mailto:[log in to unmask] *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html