where are you with chat??


At 07:33 PM 1/29/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Date:     Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:33:15 -0500
>Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
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>Subject:  LACTNET Digest - 29 Jan 1997 - Special issue
>To:       Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 14 messages totalling 412 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
>  1. Time Magazine
>  2. Pierre Robin
>  3. breasts as genitalia
>  4. Israel bf support
>  5. slogan
>  6. ADA pamphlet/dental caries-long
>  7. dentists and hospitals
>  8. breastmilk nutrition
>  9. Where to buy Normal Saline for Moist Healing
> 10. Ezzo-ATTN: Marasco
> 11. Researching breastfeeding info on the 'Net
> 12. LACTNET Digest - 28 Jan 1997 - Special issue
> 13. Fwd: research study offer
> 14. unhealthy houses - asthma -  breastfeeding
>
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>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:20:23 -0500
>From:    Jack Newman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Time Magazine
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>Gee, for those of us that don't get Time, could you provide e-mail
>address?
>
>Jack Newman
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:24:23 -0500
>From:    Jack Newman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Pierre Robin
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>As it happens, I just was referred a 2 day old baby today with Pierre
>Robin Syndrome.  She has a small chin, a cleft palate and a
>posteriorly placed tongue.  But damned if she didn't latch on first
>try as if she had always done it.  She needs to be supplemented for
>the moment with a lactation aid, but she did quite well with it.  Will
>keep you posted.
>
>Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:39:21 -0500
>From:    Lisa Jones <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: breasts as genitalia
>
>Not too long ago, maybe three months ago, I read an article in one of those
>"parenting" RAG-azines.  Breasts were referred to as genitalia, compared to
>what is in daddy's shorts (the article was about modesty in the bathroom or
>some nonsense). Of course the implication was that a three year old child
>would not already be very comfortable and very acquainted with his mother's
>breasts.
>  I wrote them a short and sweet and to the point letter about that, but it
>was not published.  All the anti-breast and anti-bfdg junk that I read has
>helped me in one way:  I know how to word-process and e-mail a lot better
>now!
>
> Lisa Jones, LLLL Wellington FL
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:41:09 -0500
>From:    Ruth Callahan <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Israel bf support
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>Can the women that live in Israel send me their phone numbers via
>private email.
>A mom with a nursling will be visting her sister in Israel for a few
>weeks in the spring and would like the security of having a contact if
>she needs support.
>Her very UNsupportive sister has made it sound like she will get
>arrested for breastfeeding in public :(
>
>ruth callahan
>New York, Ny
>[log in to unmask]
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:56:40 +0000
>From:    Thomas & Suzanne McBride <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: slogan
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>How about:
>
>Breastfeeding: the Kindess of Human Milk
>
>I don't know if I've heard this before, or even where the expression
>"The milk of human kindness" came from.
>
>Suzanne McBride
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:56:39 +0000
>From:    Thomas & Suzanne McBride <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: ADA pamphlet/dental caries-long
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> I have a pamhlet called "The Pediatric Dentist", by the American
>Academy of Pediatric Dentistry which describes nursing decay as "a
>pattern of decay associated with prolonged nursing....in a
>child...who nurses frequently" implicating breastfeeding as well as
>night-time bottle use.  This pamplet (Given to a LLL leader by a
>Vancouver Canada pedodontist  in 1995 ) states "To prevent nursing
>caries, pediatric dentists recommend that a child be weaned  by
>approximately 12 months of age", and again under "dental checklist"
>for 6 to 12 months "Wean from breast of bottle by first birthday".
>Those who are writing to the ADA please also send copies to the
>American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry, 211 East Chicago Avenue,
>Suite 1036, Chicago, Illinois 60611.  Fax 312-337-6329.
> I wrote to LLLI about this pamphlet and received a reply in August
>95 stating that Betty Crase had personally contacted the American
>Academy of Pediatric Dentistry on several occasions.  They had not
>responded to the information provided to them, or have made any
>attempt to respond to Betty's contacts.
>The dental literature on the subject is conflicting.  A good review
>of literature from around the world between 1967 and 1993 is
>contained in a symposium presented at the 23rd Annual Meeting of the
>International Association of Dental Research General Session in
>Seattle, WA, 1994.  Reprint request to Dr. Billings, Eastman Dental
>Center, 625 Elmwood Avenue, Rochester, NY 14620.  Internet:
>edieAedl.edc.edu.  Some studies are flawed in their defenition of
>breastfeeding not excluding supplementary bottles, or bottles during
>or subsequent to weaning.  A universally accepted definition for
>Nursing Bootle Tooth Decay (BBTD) does not exist, further confusing
>the comparison between studies.
> A 1992 study by Matee et al. published in Community Dent Oral
>Epidemiol 1994,22:289-93 looked at 442 1-2.5 year olds in Tanzania
>who had not experienced bottles/pacifiers.  Most of these children
>who exhibited a  (BBTD) pattern of caries had practiced unrestricted
>night-time breastfeeding including sleeping with the breast nipple in
>their mouths.  There was also highly prevalent linear hypoplasia (a
>band of poorly mineralized dental enamel) in populations with more
>decay, and this was considered a predisposing factor.   Caries rates
>and linear hypoplasia varied by geographic location.
>I agree with Jack Newman that dentists generally know little about
>breastfeeding.  Even when studies are quite sound the discussion,
>conclusion and recommendations in dental literature can be coloured
>by the author's personal or cultural beliefs which view
>breastfeeding, especially beyond early infancy, as unhealthy,
>unnatural or simply unimportant.  An example of this is
>"Nursing-bottle syndrome: Risk factors", Michele Muller, Journal of
>Dentistry for Children, Jan-Feb 1996.  Reported risk factors for
>decay other than the bottle listed in the introduction include
>"breast-feeding beyond the normal age for weaning".  The normal age
>for weaning is not defined.  This study looked at breastfeeding
>durations of less than or greater than 8 months.  Is the implication
>that 8 months is the "normal age of weaning"?  Of the 139 children
>who presented with BBTD 10 were breastfed beyond the eighth month (74
>less than 8 mo. and 59 not breastfed).  All ten breastfed children
>consumed a bottle of milk (usually sweetened) at bedtime and/or
>during the day to facilitate weaning.  In the population studied
>breastfeeding was more liley practiced by mothers of North-African
>origin.  The conclusion made by the author is that "breast-feeding by
>African women after the normal age for weaning is no longer
>acceptable" (despite nutritional, economic or social or  health
>advantages).  Although breastfeeding beyond 8 months may be normal to
>African women, the researdher in this French study has a different
>view on this and had decided that they must be in error, and that
>this is not only abnormal but also risky!  Breastfeeding beyond 8
>months is condemened as being unacceptable but inappropriate weaning
>practices such as the use of bottles containing sweeted milk is
>ignored when blaming breastfeeding for dental decay.  I wonder if
>those ten children could have avoided extensive decay by
>breastfeeding even longer and avoiding the sweetened feeding bottles
>altogether!
>Let's educate the ADA and the AAPD.  Originally I felt that because I
>was not a U.S. citizen I shouldn't bother with their business.  I
>have changed my view on this as they influence mothers, babies,
>dentists and other health care providers beyond their national
>borders.
>I love the idea of enlightening  individual dentists  as to the fact that
>our decay  free children breastfed even through the night and beyond
>12 months.
>
>Suzanne McBride, RDH,  LLL, IBCLC
>
>mother to Ryan 19, Colin 16, Erika 14, Kristina 11 (breastfed 10 mo,
>18 mo, 3.5 y, and 4 y, all caries free except Kristina's 2 small molar
>pits ), and wife to Tom, a family physician who learnt most of what
>he knows about breastfeeding from us.
>
>PS. Maybe some of our bright breastfed children should become
>dentists and shake up the profession.
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:08:30 +0000
>From:    Julie Graves Moy <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: dentists and hospitals
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>first, thanks, Dr. Kathy D, for the post on hospitals - you are so correct,
>and I found over and over that parents who had prepared a consent form for
>the hospital stay were intimidated by nurses - who really think of the
>babies as theirs - it has always been a constant struggle for me to remind
>everyone at the hospital that hospitals don't practice medicine - there is
>no such thing as hospital standard orders - every patient must have orders
>from an admitting MD - but over and over, my orders were not followed.  I
>could go on....
>
>but on a positive note - yesterday I went for my dental cleaning and took 2
>1/2 year old Caroline - she watched with interest then asked to have her
>teeth cleaned.  The hygienist and dentist were amazed as she sat perfectly
>still for a full cleaning and flossing - afterwards, I asked if our
>all-night-nursing was causing problems with her teeth - the dentist said -
>"oh, so that's why she's so bright and behaves so well" - and went on to
>say that I shouldn't worry about the ADA statement - her teeth were fine.
>Julie Graves Moy, MD, MPH
>Austin, TX
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:34:25 -0500
>From:    "Chris Lundberg, BSN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: breastmilk nutrition
>
><<The reason that breastmilk nourishes human babies perfectly with what
>would seem sub-optimal levels of nutrients is in the presentation- many
>nutrients come with carrier proteins to maximize their absorbtion, and
>the balance of all the nutrients together serves to maximize the
>absorbtion of each particular nutrient.>>
>
>I was listening to a tape of a presentation by Marshall Klaus from the 1994
>ILCA conference . He mentions gastrin and other hormones in
>breastmilkpromoting growth of the villae in the intestines, thus increasing
>the amount of energy obtained from the milk, explaining the need for lower
>amounts of milk needed in breastfed babies.( That may not be exactly what he
>said, but what I can recall.  It was snowing and I was also trying to stay on
>the road)
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 22:29:14 +0000
>From:    Anna <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Where to buy Normal Saline for Moist Healing
>
>Hi,
>I thought British BFCs and LLLLs would like to know where they could
>tell mothers to buy sterile Normal Saline solution for soaking cracked
>nipples (see the Moist Healing thread): Opticians shops! Also, Boots in
>the contact lense section.
>--
>Anna (mummy to Emma, born 17th Jan 1995 and Alice, born 11th Sept 1996)
>Email: [log in to unmask]  Web Page: http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/anna
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:01:34 -0500
>From:    Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Ezzo-ATTN: Marasco
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>
>Hi. Can someone more knowledgeable than me please respond to this lady ?
>Thanks. Kathleen
>
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:12:45 -0500 (EST)
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Ezzo
>>
>>I am a childbirth educator, Christian and am coming across parents using
>>Ezzo.  I have only briefly read one of the books (to be used with a cassette
>>I guess) and found it to be very breastfeeding unfriendly.  I am working
with
>>three Christian couples at the moment and would like to present them with
>>information that would encourage them to stay away from this "methode."
>> Could you send me any information that you have about this please...our
>>church has recently begun "teaching" these classes and I'd like to give them
>>the information also.
>>
>>Thanks very much,
>>Barbara Hernke...LPN, CE        email @ B4Babies
>>
>>
>Pax,
>Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,Corgi-L,TLC, Indep. Consultant
>http://together.net/~kbruce/kbbhome.html
>LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:46:31 -0500
>From:    "Mary Ann Dever, RN, CLC" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Researching breastfeeding info on the 'Net
>
>Greetings Lactnetters:
>I found another example of AARRGGHH whilst surfing the 'Net looking for
>breastfeeding research today and I thought it might be of some benefit to
>post my observation on the subject of breastfeeding info. on web pages.
> Under the heading of breastfeeding (which understandably, generates alot of
>different types of material), I stumbled across the Kid's Health. Org page.
> Within that particular site they had two different articles.  One entitled
>"The Advantages of Breastfeeding" and the other "The Advantages of
>Bottlefeeding".  So, I proceeded to read both articles.  As you might
>imagine, the second article referring to ABM was absurd.  In essence, it
>equated bottlefeeding to breastfeeding as equal food sources, even going so
>far as to say bottlefeeding with ABM was an "excellent" food source. (YIKES
>and Gadzukes) Since this site gives one the opportunity for comment, I did
>so.  I found it also quite interesting that this particular site is
>associated with the duPont Hospital for Children and the Nemour's Children
>Clinic.  If anyone would like the e-mail or web site to read or respond to
>this article, please e-mail me privately.
>Cordially:
>Mary Ann Dever
>
>P.S.  The topic I have chosen for a research project I'm putting together for
>a college class I'm taking is: Breastfeeding: Inspite of the documented
>health advantages and its subsequent cost effectiveness for consumers and
>healthcare insurers, why are so many mother's still choosing to feed their
>infants with ABM or wean early?  I'd appreciate any input regarding the
>broadness or specificity of this topic.  Given my limited background in this
>field, is this too broad a topic for just a college paper?  Please pardon the
>length of this post.  I'll go back to lurking for awhile.  Thanks so much.
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:29:59 -0800
>From:    Paula Bermingham <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 28 Jan 1997 - Special issue
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>
>Thanks for the wonderful inclusion of the geese analogy. Nature never fails
>to show the way, and there is truly nothing new under the sun.
>
>Also, thanks to whomever listed the medical link   www.achoo.com   Thought
>I'd read there for a while and -get away- from BF...but to no avail. There
>was a listing from a mom dx with melanoma, lots of tissues removed and
>treatments. She is being told to wean her 4 month old...Many years ago I had
>melanoma too. (written in Learning a Loving way of Life).
>
>Someone with a medical background would be more appropriate than I too
>address her concerns. I did not wean. But the mole was taken care of by a
>simple removal...the CA had not spread. Just thought I'd let you caring
>people know.
>
>Paula Bermingham, IBCLC
>WIC BF Coordinator Lake Co, Calif
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:28:51 -0500
>From:    "Denise Stuart, Bsn, Ibclc" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Fwd: research study offer
>
>---------------------
>Forwarded message:
>Subj:    research study offer
>Date:    97-01-29 11:20:00 EST
>From:    MILKMAM5
>To:      [log in to unmask]
>
>I was contacted to participate in a research study.  The questions asked to
>qualify me involved both breastpumps and artifical baby milk.  I asked if
>this was sponsored by a formula company or its parent company as they are
>offering $100 to participate.  They told me they did not know who the client
>was and that I would never know-it was just for information only.  The money
>would be cash and they did not know exactly where the money comes from.  The
>money, obviously, would be nice and if it would help breastfeeding and
>postpartum moms ( to be about postpartum lactation in some respect) I would
>be willing to participate.  But.. how do I know it is not a ploy by a formula
>marketing scheme?  Has anyone been contacted or heard of this study?  Is it
>just here in the Northwest or all over?  Please e-mail me or post for others.
> TIA    Denise Stuart
>Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:31:22 -0500
>From:    "Kathleen Bodden, RN, BScN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: unhealthy houses - asthma -  breastfeeding
>
>Something in Keith Whittaker's post of today reminded me of a newspaper
>article in our Toronto Star of January 25, 1997.   " Stachybotrys atra is a
>fungus that can kill babies, frail seniors and those with a severely weakened
>immune system.  And this mold was found in some homes in Wallaceburg
>(southern Ontario) during an extensive Canada Mortgage and Housing
>Coroporation study of housing.  Most researchers seem to agree that asthma in
>children is at epidemic levels.  And the home is the prime suspect.  Too much
>moisture in the home is considered the greatest contributor to the spread of
>mold and fungus and most of that starts in the basement, particularly behind
>wood panelling with paper backing.  Healthy homes should be between 30 and 50
>%humidity.
>
>A study by Atlanta's Centres for Disease Control found that most babies that
>died due to lung infections caused by stachybotrys atra lived in basement
>apartments, their mothers smoked and the babies did not breastfeed
>
>(Keith - about your family in the house with methylparathion , I wonder if
>there were any confounding factors related to the baby that died of SIDS ?)
>
>There will be a major house study in Prince Edward Island, which, according
>to the same article has one of the highest rates in the world of children
>suffering from asthma and again the home is the suspect.
>
>Anybody from PEI on Lactnet? and wouldn't this be an opportune time to do
>breastfeeding promotion even though the CMHC's agenda has to do with
>significant changes in home designs.
>
>By the way - loved the lesson of the geese contributed by MaryAlice and it
>reminded me of the page in Auerbach and Riordan "How to swim with the sharks"
> a lesson for pearl divers.   Living in Ontario where there will be 15,000
>nurses laid off by the summer since the provincial government has reduced
> funding to those hospitals that will be allowed to remain open, (closing
>something like 11 in Toronto), "parables" help.
>
>bye for now.   Kathy Bodden.
>