Hello all,

Back from my Summer holiday in Italy and catching up on reading, I stumbled
across the wine-discussion.
My sincere compliments to Jaye for putting things in a different, less
hostile perspective.
After reading all the posts concerning this, I want to add several points to
what has already been said.
I will be attending the VELB/ILCA-conference in Vienna in October and
therefore took Sarah Blaffer Hrdy's book 'Mother Nature' to prepare for her
talk (in Dutch: 'Moederschap'; 1999 - Mother Nature: A history of mothers,
infants and Natural Selection. New York: Pantheon. A BOMC Alternative
Selection; Selected by both Publisher's Weekly and by Library Journal as one
of Best Books of 1999 and a finalist for PEN USA West 2000 Literary Award
for Research Nonfiction. Won the Howells Prize for Outstanding Contribution
to Biological Anthropology. (Published in UK as Mother Nature: Natural
selection and the female of the species. London: Chatto and Windus); also
translated into Dutch, German, Italian and Portuguese). This book is an
absolute must-have for all of us.
What we all know and why the profession of lc originated in the volunteer
breastfeeding organisations, is that social support is critical when it
comes to continuance of bf. Sarah, in her book, extensively tells about very
different species and how they learn from their elders and peers. We all
tend to point out, to emphasize (maybe even to idealize...?) how important
social support structures are and how much mothers need those. All the
hostile posts about the MIL who's supposed to mind her own business, are
contrary to this biologic principle. Grandparents who are concerned about
their grandchildren, ARE, in the heart of the matter, minding their own
business, which, from an evolutionary point of view, is securing that a next
generation will grow up healthy enough to produce yet another generation of
strong offspring. Many children would be *way*, repeat *way* better off, if
adults in their social environment would not be so hesitant to mind the
business of the wellbeing of the little ones who have no alternative than to
be cared for (or neglected by) their parents who are busy with their own
lives. This medal has two sides: being cared for by your social environment,
also means having to deal with things that you may perceive as interference,
but are in fact at least well meant, but sometimes also indeed wise
suggestions. The (positive) refusal to interfere can in fact be a (negative)
willingness to care, a wolve in sheep clothes, so to say, because the caring
would also mean carrying responsibility, taking a stand, investing time and
(emotional) energy, making difficult decisions, having illusions shattered,
and so on and so forth. The point here, imo, is not that the MIL is
concerned, but that everyone has to learn how to express concerns and how to
deal with lack of knowledge.
I was wondering: what would everyone on this list have said, if the parents
were mismanaging the breastfeeding, the father was giving dumm answers,
based on old wives tales, and the MIL would have turned to the lc to back up
her knowledge by more profound information on bf from the lc, and then
handing that back to the parents... Would all those who are so upset now,
also have condemned the MIL's behaviour and her 'violating privacy' or would
they have praised her for standing up for the baby's bf rights...?
I will sit the exam next Monday and have read through all the books again.
One of the first chapters in our 'bibles' are about ethnocentrism. Anyone
who gave it a thought, that the idea of what constitutes privacy, has quite
a lot to do with what someone's own culture dictates about that...? Do you
really think that traditional societies, where mothers are much more in a
matrilinear environment, could do all sorts of things that were considered
harmful without mothers or grandmothers or sisters knowing that, because
these moms vigorously guarded their privacy...? I don't think so.
The whole issue here is: there is way too little knowledge about how
breastfeeding work. This MIL wants to know more and asks someone who is
supposed to know more AND who is supposed to know about mechanisms that I
described above. (Okay, admitted... this may depend on the lc's perception
of what her profession is about... Worldwide, we don't seem to agree on that
and I'm going to make an issue of it in the Netherlands *after* the exam...
;o)) I think this is a good thing; if she runs into a good lc, she can
indeed have a conversation about *her* feelings and get them addressed, as
the lc is an expert in active listening and conversational skills (right?!).
This good lc could try to find out about the MIL's motives and would not
have to make assumptions. Good lactation consultancy is not only about
supporting the mother; it is also about supporting her social environment.
It's very easy to point towards the MIL, but what can we, as a professional,
do for the parents in dealing with the MIL? Shouldn't *that* be the topic
discussed on Lactnet? Why is everyone so hot on the privacy in this regard?
Does it tell us something about the concern for this specific mom or about
the own experiences with MILs and about own aversion about having issues
brought into the outer world...? If I show good behaviour, I am not
concerned or angry about someone else telling this to others. If I am
ashamed of my own behavour, *then* I probably won't like someone else to
talk about it with (their) trusted others.

It's not that I dismiss the possibility of this MIL wanting to interfere
(out of insecurity...? first time grandma? confused by everything that
changed since shed had her babies? misinformed? unconsciously mourning about
her own unsuccessful bf periods?); that might be the case. We, though, are
*not* supposed to assess a situation and make a diagnosis or suggest a plan
for treatment *on the basis of assumptions*, not with physical or
physiological issues and neither with psychosocial issues. We could educate
the MIL about how she could deal with either the situation or the fact that
she asked for more information with an expert in the field of breastfeeding.
Great challenge.

And like pointed out by others... alcohol enters blood very fast and, once
in the milk, keeps pace with plasma clearance. Clever timing of drinking may
keep even the least bit of alcohol away from the baby, who is much more able
to clear some alcohol at the age of six months than during the early weeks,
by the way.

One last question... what is the risk of the liver producing enzymes to
clear the alcohol...? Aren't we flooded with enzymes all of the time...? ;o)
Oops... dumm question, so shortly before my exam...?! hahaha

Kindly,

Marianne Vanderveen, Netherlands

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaye Simpson, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [LACTNET] Wine and assumptions


> Um.some assumptions are being made about a breach of privacy and the
> intent
> of the grandma concerned.  This bothers me - a lot and has left me very
> uncomfortable.   Now, I don't know so much about the breach of privacy,
> but
> quite honestly, who of us hasn't taken the private life/situation of
> someone
> else (friend, child, parent) to a friend or colleague who may have more
> information on a subject we are concerned about?  When we are concerned we
> go to those we trust to help educate us.  No names have been mentioned
> here
> - none of us knows who this family is.  So what is the problem?  Would the
> mother be upset that her mil was asking around for information?  Maybe -
> maybe not.  We don't know.  She might have encouraged grandma to do some
> research for all we know.  I think we need to give the benefit of the
> doubt
> to grandma here rather than make an assumption about her motives -
> especially since those assumptions come across as very sharp.
>
> In my opinion, Grandma had a valid question and a valid concern.  Why do I
> validate this?  Because, it is all too common to get mixed information
> about
> alcohol and breastfeeding - or breastfeeding and anything - these days.
> One
> Dr/book/professional/person says no don't drink, another says to drink
> dark
> beer to increase supply.  One says it's OK to drink a little during
> pregnancy then other says absolutely no alcohol at all.who are we to
> believe?  The information is mixed and confusing to say the least.  So
> what
> is one to do?  Keep their mouth shut and not educate themselves??
>
> So grandma is concerned and asked an LC friend for input.  The LC in
> question wasn't sure, so came to HER group of professionals who could give
> her the real information so she could be properly educated and could, in
> turn properly educate her friend.  I don't see a problem here.  I don't
> see
> any mention that grandma is faking altruistic behavior in order to get
> into
> someone's business.
>
> I hope that grandma gets the info that it is OK for mom to drink alcohol
> and
> that eases her mind.  I hope that grandma can go back to her son and say
> 'I
> just wanted to thank you for giving me your information and I was so proud
> to learn you were right - I learned something and it just shows me that
> you
> really are doing a great job.'  And hopefully, the son and dil will be OK
> with everything and be happy that grandma cared enough to do some
> research.
> This doesn't have to be a negative control issue - everyone has the
> opportunity to learn here.if they choose to.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Jaye

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