Joy... I appreciated your post and your information.  I know I am opening up
a whole new "can of worms" here, but I did want to comment that there is
also a vast difference between raw milk and pasteurized/homogenized milk.
No, I am not making the suggestion that someone feed raw milk to their child
(although I do).  I'm simply making the statement that there are many
nutritional differences in milk that hasn't had its fat cells crushed under
pressure and that hasn't had all the natural probiotics destroyed by heat.
I do not ever feed my children pasteurized or homogenized milk as I feel
that it is quite unhealthy.  But I think raw milk is actually very healthy,
provided it comes from a reputable source.  I don't want a debate to ensue
over this, I simply wanted to bring attention to the differences.

Christina Harris, RN
Federal Way, WA

On 12/27/07, Joy Anderson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your response, Jeannine. Since Jeannine is commenting on
> what I wrote, I will add some comments below.
>
> Jeannine Jacobs wrote:
> >So, the answer to this problem in my eyes would be to return to the
> >diet of our ancestors... starch-based, whole foods, Vegan diet,
> >right?
>
> No, our ancestors were not vegan, but had a basically vegetarian diet
> with occasional meat. We have a specialised transporter in the gut
> purely for haem iron (iron in flesh meat and blood), so this supports
> the idea that we are meant to eat meat. Our ancestors were
> hunter/gatherers, so they hunted animals to eat. However, it is
> obviously possible to have a healthy diet as a vegan - and I
> acknowledge that the vast majority of vegans are much healthier than
> most people following the typical Western omnivorous diet.
>
> >  Ever hear of Dr. McDougall?  He (as well as others; Barnard,
> >Fuhrman, Ornish, etc...) have done a tone of research on the human
> >diet and have found that the rich western diet is really horrible
> >for our bodies and is what is causing so much illness in our society.
>
> I certainly agree there!
>
> >   Cow's milk is not the answer to this problem.
>
> I didn't say it was the answer to the problem of poor Western diets
> and chronic disease.
>
> >   The addition of all of the extra protein in cow's milk causes our
> >bodies to leach calcium from our bones and we end up with weaker
> >bones.
>
> That is not true. I agree that it is a fact that protein intake is
> related to calcium loss, but not so great as to 'leach calcium from
> our bones' when consuming cow-milk products, because of the high
> calcium content in these foods. The protein content of milk is
> relatively low.
>
> >   There isn't one study out there, that I am aware of, that proves
> >that adding cow's milk to a diet improves calcium absorption or the
> >density of bones (Even the ones funded by the dairy industry).
>
> They are there. I don't have access to the university library's
> search facilities at the moment (as I have graduated but not yet
> enrolled into the post-graduate course) but one that one of our
> lecturers was a co-author for is:
>
> Prince R, Devine A, Dick I, Criddle A, Kerr D, Kent N, Price R,
> Randel A. 'The effects of calcium supplementation (milk powder or
> tablets) and exercise on bone density in postmenopausal women.'
> Journal of Bone and Mineral Research 1995; 10:1068-75
>
> In this study, they found that milk powder and supplemental calcium
> tablets were equally effective in preventing bone density loss in
> postmenopausal women. Exercise actually *increased* the density
> again. In the 'normal' situation in Western countries, postmenopausal
> women lose bone density at a significant rate due to withdrawal of
> oestrogen.
>
> You also have to appreciate that the body's calcium status is very
> complex, and there are lots of factors that affect bone density, and
> calcium absorption and loss. It is not a simple matter of adding in
> what you eat and it going to the bones and some getting lost at
> random. The body has very tight and elegant controls on calcium in
> the blood and tissues (as well as absorption and loss) as the
> consequences of the wrong concentrations would be devastating. The
> bones, as bone density, are simply the stores - or the 'bank'.
>
> >  Cow's milk is made for baby cows... now that's simple.
>
> Yes, and I agree that it is not suitable for baby humans, or babies
> of any other animal species for that matter - as a *complete* food,
> which is what species-specific milk is meant to be for babies.
> However, you could say the same about any food. Veges grow to
> maintain their species and grow new plants, not to feed us. Fruits,
> nuts and seeds grow on plants to begin the next generation of plants,
> not to feed us. Most actually have evolved toxins and inhibitors to
> protect themselves from extinction by being 'eaten out', and animal
> (including human) body systems have evolved to cope with these. All
> very symbiotic over time. Overwhelming these systems by eating too
> much of one food to the exclusion of others is one way to see one
> type of food intolerance. Cow milk is just another biological
> substance that we can collect that has a good range of nutrients in
> it. No more, no less. It is not a *complete* food for anything but a
> calf.
>
> I get the impression that there is a dichotomy of opinions in which
> cow milk is either the 'perfect' food or a 'bad' food. I don't think
> it is either. It is simply one of a huge range of foods that humans
> consume for some of the nutrients we need. Maybe some worship it too
> much and believe it is the perfect complete food. Perhaps this is
> where the industry has promoted this idea, for monetary gain. It is
> just one food out of many that are consumed by different people in
> different parts of the world. It just happens to be culturally
> acceptable in Western countries - or any countries with a significant
> portion of their population derived from Northern European ancestry
> with widespread persistence of activity of the lactase gene
> throughout life (one exception is the Massai (sp?) in Africa - they
> came about drinking cow milk from a different ancestral direction).
> Let's get this into perspective and take the emotion out of it.
> Famous quote: 'There are no bad foods, only bad diets'.
>
> Joy
> --
> ******************************************************************
> Joy Anderson B.Sc.(Zoology) Dip.Ed. Grad.Dip.Med.Tech. B.Sc.(Nutrition)
> IBCLC
> Australian Breastfeeding Association counsellor
> Perth, Western Australia.   mailto: [log in to unmask]
> ******************************************************************
>
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