I have just signed back onto Lactnet after my trip to China and the beginning of the school year (even though the kids are homeschooled--unschooled, there's a lot to get going with classes and schedules and my son's enrollment in an arts high school p/t). BTW, it was very easy for us as vegans to eat well in China and Tibet (not so at all in Japan), including for me and Leo (who is 6), even though we eat no gluten and very minimal soy. I saw few children on the city streets in China, esp young children, but saw a  lot of children in the countryside and lots and lots of babies on mom's backs and very obviously nursing in moms' arms in Tibet. It has become very common in China for both parents to work and more and more young children are being placed in boarding schools from as young as 5. We saw one of these schools--it was so beautiful--looked magical, like Hogworts (Harry Potter) on the outside. The living quarters were so terribly depressing and there are 2ooo kids there!! The food was also terrible (and we got better food than the residents)--quite a disturbing experience. Also, strollers are still very uncommon in the cities--nowhere to be found at all in remote areas. I saw AIM for sale in some stores in major cities, but none in Tibet. 


Anyway, I am sorry I am getting to this thread late, but do want to post. I think I managed to read the entire thread. First, I want to say that we do indeed live in a culture where being vegan is considered a risk factor for children, and parents who are vegan are immediately treated badly by many HCPs in many situations. When my now almost 16yo ds was in hospital at the age of 5, we gave instruction that his food be vegan and we asked to speak with an RD to be sure of this. I do not believe that a single vegan meal was ever delivered to him. We have never had problems with our primary care providers b/c we have chosen them with our personal choices in mind, but have always encountered negativity in institutional settings. And most veg moms I know have had very distressing encounters with their HCPs over their dietary choices.

Given our own experiences, I can understand the potential for even a wonderful parent to be irrational in dealing with the "powers that be" (which should be the parents!!, not the govt anyway) especially when he feels that his parental rights are threatened. Your own knowledge, your own confidence in your choices is meaninglesss to people with preconceived ideas. This is not so different from the mom who wants to bf a baby before a surgery or wants to bf before testing blood sugar levels or wants her preemie to get only breastmilk, even if it has to be from a milk bank or wants procedures performed in her room in the hospital so the baby is with her or wants her baby not to be bathed before going to breast--things that to us are all quite normal and reasonable. Yet, such choices are often considered irrational by those to whom our choices are unimportant or threatening--paradigns clash and the mainstream behaviours are deemed prefrable. 

I am making no comment on this particular case, but I have noticed that whenever veganism is involved, many on Lactnet will jump to explain why veganism "concerns" them. 

Elaine Mazgelis wrote:
"As a WIC Nutritionist and Registered Dietitian, I still worry whenever I see a WIC client on a vegan diet (very rare) or even on a super-strict vegetarian diet of her choice. In the back of my mind, I am asking myself, "does this participant really understand the diet?" As you can
probably imagine, most very strict vegetarians do not stay on WIC for long, because many of  the foods we give are those contraindicated in a strict vegetarian diet (cows' milk, eggs, etc). "

Now, I am the first person to argue that no diet is inherently the "right" diet for everyone, although I would also say that most diets we see in the West are absolutely the wrong diet for anyone who wants to live. And, I would go so far as to say that I believe the "information" disseminated by most WIC offices represents my idea of poor nutrition. And, whille I am not a nutritionist, I can certainly hold my own when it comes to a discussion on nutriiton. 

Elaine asks if the peson really understands the diet and I wonder if RD's ask that of everyone about her diet? WIC and the US govt in general tends to promote a one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition, which IMO has no basis in science. I agree with katherine in atlanta--metabolic typing is the most accurate way of evaluating individual dietary needs and yet I doubt most, if any govt agencies are even aware of it.. The bias toward assuming a vegan doesn't know what she is doing is quite prevalent among HCPs and both irritates me personally and concerns me professionally.

"That may change in the future, but that's a different post. In any event, I always wish I could be sure that parents are extremely well-educated on the diet, and I do worry about them.  I can't help it."

In all honesty, how many people have any valid education about nutrition? We know that most doctors don't. I have met very few HCPs in this country whose dietary advice I would consider useful at all. I would be grateful if it simply wasn't so harmful. Like the RD who "educated" my MIL about treating her diabetes--absolutely useless hogwash. Or the cardiologist who performed a diagnositc test on her--he was obese and during our meeting was drinking a soda. It used to amaze me when I worked in hospital that I would attend bf committee meetings and almost every single nurse would be drinking a can of soda. I may be pickly this way--but I prefer my "education" from people who actually walk their talk. I have no respect for anyone who feels free to be concerend about my diet when she cannot even have the common sense not to drink soda.

We have the most obese population on Earth!!!  We have the highest rates of most preventable diseases and it isn't all b/c babies aren't being bf. When I was in China, there was one obese Chinese man at the Forbidden City and he was drawing a lot of attention--b/c no one else anywhere was even moderately overweight (unless they were foreign tourists).   Food is not scarce in China, but in general, people eat three meals a day. No snacking. Meals are leisurely, not eaten on the run. And while cars are the hot new thing, people still get a lot of exercise. The primary food is vegetables, to which is added rice, fruits and meat. Soy is not consumed anywhere near as much as processed soy producers would like us to think and none of it is processed, that's for sure. No one eats bread--it is a diet high in complex carbs and low in grains and simple carbs. We saw no dairy except at breakfast for the Western tourists. Believe me, unless you are a vegan who eats primarly soy, this is much closer to our diet than to any other American style diet. Most of the peope in our group lost quite a lot of weight, and we are not the average Americans b/c we practice martial arts, so we get a lot of exercise.

I have facilitated a breastfeeding board on the largest veg site on the internet for a couple of years. I get a lot of flack for criticizing soy and I honestly believe that most vegetarians eat far too many grains and too few vegetables. Even so, they are generally doing much better than the avg American who thinks she eat a "good" diet. 

When I work with moms, I always get a dietary history and I am amazed at the diets that women actually believe are healthy and have been told are by their docs!!! One mom recently told me that she ate poorly while pregnant and her baby must be so healthy b/c of the prenatal vitamins she took!!   I think that most docs think that covers them for nutritional counseling. When I worked primarliy with WIC moms (for 4 years), I was always concerend with the cow milk products being pushed at these families. So often, these moms were flavoring the cow milk with artificial-flavored syrups to get it down, b/c they either hated the taste or were allergic to it and had deveopled an aversion to it. All b/c the WIC nutritionists told them it was good for them!!!! Shouldn't we be concerned about the prevalence of asthma and allergies among poor families and urge them to avoid such a common allergen, esp when they themselves exhibit allergic symptoms?

I apologize for the length of this post, but in our white bread, soda-slugging, french fries are the most commonly consumed vegatable, colored gator-aide, "Got Milk",  Tums is a source of calcium world!!!, this kind of "vegan diets worry me" attitude strikes me as utterly bizarre. American grocery stores worry me. When the avg HCP is educated in EFAs, magnesium deficiency,  nutrient-absorption, amino-acid profiles, metabolic typing, the effect of hormones of nutrition, the absolute need for living, green foods, probiotics and gut health, the dangers of additives (used ever, not "in moderation"), allergies, the effects of diet on brain, nervous system and gut function, the fundamentals of functional medicine, the absolute importance of diet on the developing fetus, and has read "Fast Food Nation" and Joel Fuhrman's book "Eat to Live", I will have hope for the health of this nation. Until then, I remain discouraged about the health of our nation, not the health of vegan babies.  And yes, all of my babies were vegan --human milk is vegan. 
Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, CT, USA