Gena Kus  writes:

>I always enjoy Kathy Dettwyler's knowledgeable posts.
>    Regarding sex and breasts--while I agree with much of your post on this
>subject (27 Feb), where does breast stimulation causing uterine contractions
>and the like come in?  This can't be a learned behavior.  And they are part
>of the reproductive system which by its very nature is sexual...

Breast stimulation causes uterine contracts when the uterus has lots of
oxytocin receptors -- only around the time of delivery, as I understand it.
So early nursing by the baby helps a LOT to expel the placenta and keep the
uterus contracted after delivery to reduce blood flow.  Presumably that is
the purpose of the breastfeeding--oxytocin--uterine contractions axis.  IF
oxytocin causes uterine contractions later on, they are not felt by most
women.  And the uterine contractions immediately following delivery are not
pleasurable to anyone I know.  Niles Newton's work showed that oxytocin was
released upon orgasm, but NOT that oxytocin was *responsible* in any way for
the pleasurable feelings of orgasm.  I suspect that if someone did research
on orgasm in women given oxytocin-blockers, they would not notice any
difference (that is to say, I don't think the oxytocin is what causes the
pleasure).

Second, becoming sexually aroused in response to various stimuli can most
certainly be learned behavior in humans.  That's why my husband hates it
when I nibble on his earlobe at a party and pretend to be whispering
something in his ear!  And why men in China became sexually aroused at the
sight and smell of bound feet (the smell was putrefying flesh!).  And why
Malians get all hot at the sight of thighs, and why a certain physical touch
from your spouse arouses you, while the very same physical touch from your
boss, whom you hate, disgusts you.

At both the cultural level (groups of people learning things) and the
individual level (personal experiences and preferences), much of human
sexual behavior is learned.  Of course, much of great ape sexual behavior is
learned to.  If you raise a female puppy in a home with no other dogs, and
your neighbor raises a male puppy in a home with no other dogs, and you put
them together as adults when the female is in heat, they "know" what to do,
and they do it.  If you raise a female ape (chimp, gorilla, orangutan) in a
zoo with no other apes, and a male ape in another zoo with no other apes,
and put them together as adults when the female is in estrus (heat), they
will NOT know what to do, and they won't do it.  You have to show them porno
movies, have them watch movies of apes mating in the wild, or resort to
artificial insemination to get the pregnancy going.  And even if the mother
gives birth, so much of ape mothering behavior is learned that she won't
know what the heck this thing is that just came out of her, and will abandon
it, ignore it, or kill it, rather than put it to the breast like a first
time dog mother would.  So, once again, we see that humans are just a little
farther down the path of relying on learned behavior than the apes are, not
a "breed apart."

Third, the mammary glands are not considered sex organs in any other mammal
-- ask your vet.  They are not considered part of the reproductive tract, or
referred to as the genitals.  In terms of "sex" and interactions between
males and females, reproduction in most mammals involves the behaviors
leading up to and including intercourse.  After that, it's all a matter of
mothers and babies, with a few species having a little paternal care thrown
in.  Unless you're willing to classify the cow and calf or dog and puppy
nursing as being engaged in "sexual behavior" then you have to distinguish
between what is "sexual reproduction" and what is "mothering behavior".  I
would say sexual reproduction stops after conception, and mothering begins.
IMHO, as always.

Kathy Dettwyler





>   Gena , LLLL in FL
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:39:50 +1100
>From:    Jackie Cesnik <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: The Yeast connection
>
>Hello All
>I have been hearing about this book for nearly a year now and have finally
>got around to asking for the full details. I would like to get it in
>Australia and would be grateful if someone would give me the name of the
>publisher and price in US, so I can compare and maybe get it brought back by
>my husband on one of his jaunts to USA (he calls them work, but I have my
>doubts sometimes).
>TIA
>jackie
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:09:41 EST
>From:    "ANA M. PARRILLA" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Moban
>
>This is for Dr. Hale:
>
>I have a 33 y/o patient ,G1P0 A0, gestational age 36 wks with a history of
>Manic-Depressive disorder. She has been using Moban (Molindone) and Depakote
>through all her pregnancy. She came to our clinic for prenatal breastfeeding
>orientation and for information about the use of these medications during
>lactation. We found the molecular weight, pka, and peak for Molindone , but  no
>more information about the use of  the drug during lactation was found. This
>lady is very interested in breastfeeding and her husband is very
cooperative and
>supportive. Several psychiatrists reccomended against breastfeeding due to
>medications. I will appreciate any information about this drug and your advice
>in this matter. If anyone in Lactnet had similar experiences please advise.
>
>Ana M. Parrilla, M.D., M.P.H., IBCLC
>Medical Director
>Lactamar - Instituto de Lactancia Materna
>Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico
>email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:59:43 -0500
>From:    "Richard C. Baker" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: PN decisions
>
>Hi all!  This is my first post.  I am a family practice doc in Rutland,
>Vermont and recently became the doc member of our local "Breast Feeding
>Support Network".  One of the projects  we are working on is a monthly
>Fax to all the MD's in town who come in contact with people who are or
>might someday be breast feeding.  We are trying to use this means to
>fact-by-bf-fact bring up everyone's knowledge about breastfeeding-(and
>thereby have them become better advocates!)  Our first fact just dealt
>with reminding everyone about healthy babies 2000 goals.  Our second
>one is going to deal with how people make the decision to breastfeed
>prenatally and how much the pregnant woman's health care provider can
>influence this decision.  Does anyone have a good reference for us to
>cite???  Please e-mail me with it.
>   Have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts-but really having trouble
>staying caught up!;)
>--Rich
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:37:49 -0500
>From:    Kathe Catone <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: BF checklist
>
>I posted a while back about a BF checklist that I use that is originally from
>Philadelphia Dept of Public Health.  It is one 2-sided sheet, and includes a
>checklist for the first week with info to ck for Bf, wet diapers, stools
>(including description of color, etc).  I would be happy to mail a copy to
>JRB who inquired about checklists, if she will email me with her snailmail.
> LLLI also has a pad of tear sheets that lists how to know if you have enough
>milk, and if baby is getting enough.
>
>Kathe Catone, IBCLC,LLLL   [log in to unmask]
>In So. Calif, where we have had snow!  (I know, I know, it's nothing like
>what the rest of the country has dealt with, but quite a big deal here!  Was
>the lead for TV news!)
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of LACTNET Digest - 28 Feb 1996 - Special issue
>***************************************************
>
>