Julia,

I am not that experienced and not an IBCLC (yet), but as I am avidly reading 
lots and lots of all bf books I can get my hands on, I found it interesting that 
- in contrast to what I knew initially - in most of the recent books and 
materials the upper lip position is described as "neutral", not flanged. A very 
flanged upper lip is quite often a sign of a shallow latch. If the baby is 
latched on deeply and the nose is not touching the breast, there is virtually no 
way for the upper lip to be flanged. 


The lower lip is another matter entirely - if it is sucked in, then we most 
often have a problem.

I have observed that the babies of moms with big soft breasts even with 
excellent technique and latch-on often do not flange their lips as much and the 
angle is not as big during the feeding - probably due to the softness of the 
breast that squishes easily. But if everything else is ok, moms don't have pain 
and soreness and babies get enough milk, I think that's not a problem, but a 
variation of normal for the particular mom and baby.

Christina Yaneva
BF Peer Counsellor
Bulgaria



----- Original Message ----
From: Julia Augur <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 6:01:34 PM
Subject: lip position

So we all know that we tell moms who complain of sore nipples to make sure the 
baby's lips are flanged, but is it just something we say?
There are things we know need to apply to have a "good latch". Positioning is 
imperative; as well as the deepness of the nipple in babies mouth. But are the 
lips really a big factor. We have cleft babies who nurse perfectly (and mom's 
have no soreness) and obviously turing out those lips is usually an 
impossibilty.
I understand the need to create a decent seal, but can't this be done with lips 
that aren't completely rolled outward? My children have tight labial frenums and 
were unable to completely "flange" their lips. I never had very sore nipples. I 
find myself moving away from this idea and I was wondering what everyone's 
thoughts on the matter are?
Please let me know if there is any concrete evidence to support this claim. 

Thanks in advance;

Julia AUgur IBCLC

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