Jan Ellen Brown notes:

<< she had not pumped, except with
 limited success with the manual portion of the kit, for over 36 hours....they
 somehow got to us and she was at what my colleague
 Robin calls the "pop and die" stage......in other words, her breasts were
 ready to pop and she felt like she could die!!  Her nipples were barely
 visible.....after applications of warm moist disposable diapers she pumped 6
 ounces......she rented a pump and left a happy camper...... >>

My question is, how much milk would you have gotten with just pumping with an
electric pump?  How much milk would you have gotten with warm compresses to
the back of her neck and cool cabbage compresses to her breasts?  How much
milk with icy cold compresses (wet disposable diapers put in the freezer for a
bit?)

If we do something, and it seems to "work" then we make the assumption that
this is the way to treat a particular condition -- I did that for years until
I really thought about the physiology of what I was doing, and questioned if
what I was doing was based on sound scientific evidence or on tradition.  So,
in Jan Ellen's case, what was it that worked?  A good pump?  The heat?  The
TLC that she gave to the mom?  Perhaps we could all experiment -- put cold
compresses & cabbage on one engorged breast and applications of hot moist
compresses on the other breast and then double pump with a hospital grade
electric pump and see which seems to work the best.  It might be an
interesting experiment.

If any one does it -- please report back.  I want to know!

BTW, my engorgement hand out says cabbage and icy cold compresses and gentle
expression if the baby can't latch on -- if the baby can, that's fine, and if
not, use of a pump.  Mostly I have dads get the cabbage before mom gets home
from the hospital and have her start using the cool compresses and cabbage
before they get to the "pop & die" stage so that we don't have to deal with
it.  Since I started this regime, the number of desperate phone calls I've
received have dropped dramatically.  (I used to get the "my baby suddenly
won't latch on" calls -- inevitably on day 4).

Jan Barger -- whose electricity went out at 5:00 am, and I woke up wondering
how on earth I was going to access my computer and find out all the new info
on engorgement this morning.  Not to mention shower, make coffee (imperative),
etc etc.  Fortunately it went back on in 25 minutes....