I am sorry, let me clarify a few things. I was in a hurry the other day and I guess I didn't go into enough detail, I was trying to just get an answer to the question regarding how much peppermint, sage, or B6 and any other herbal or dietary, or medicinal treatments for oversupply.
I don't think the oversupply would be corrected by the tongue clipping. The baby has a lot of abdominal discomfort and gas, he typically nurses between 4 and 8 minutes when he is going too fast, when mom's supply is managable he nurses well for 20 minutes or so. I was thinking the tongue clipping would help him to manage the SMER better and also to be better coordinated with his sucking pattern. I have also seen many so called colliky, and also reflux babies have their digestive issues mostly resolved when they are tongue tied and have this clipped. Depending on how soon it gets done, I have seen it take a few days to several weeks to improve.
There are 2 issues going on with this family. Obviously this mom is pretty lucky that the tongue tie has not caused an undersupply problem, I haven't experienced an oversupply with a tongue tied baby unless mom was pumping to keep supply high along with nursing, this situation is new to me. I am wondering however, with this kind of oversupply now... what will happen when baby is better at nursing?
Mom's only discomfort is her breasts get very tender because they stay so full, and engorged. Again, this is somewhat intermittant... she gets it down to a normal or comfortable range for a few days all is well and he is doing a little better with feedings, although even when this is going on, he still has a very crampy or painful tummy. He doesn't spit up all the time, but does spit up often. She has tried feeding him more frequently hoping the smaller feedings would help him to not spit up but he is very difficult to do this with. He arches and fights when mom attempts to get him to nurse if he is not truely ready to feed but when he is ready, he latches without any fight or struggle.
Based on my assessment and what I believe is going on, I think there are 2 different situations that normally would not go hand in hand here. Since she successfully gets him to nurse and be less gassy, and stools go back to yellow instead of green when she has a comfortable supply it seems that keeping her supply managable without losing it would help. Mom was uncomfortable with compression in the beginning but using a nipple shield baby is able to get on well and it has helped with the SMER a tiny bit. The shield has helped tremendously from what we saw in the very beginning. He is spitting up and crying out and staying fussy, crampy, which seems to be more like what I see when a baby is tongue tied even if they can get a good feeding with the nipple shield and mom is comfortable, and the doctors often diagnose reflux, I have seen this resolve or at least greatly improve when the tongue tie is clipped.(not always but many times)And moms are able to get baby off the shield.
Mom is hoping that getting the tongue clipped will help his coordination, his cramping and his reflux/spitting up. She is also hoping that keeping her supply managable will help his ability to coordinate better, extend his feedings and get more fat in the feeding.
She leans back or lays down for feedings, she keeps him as upright as possible, she also has double fed, nursing from the right breast for 2 feedings, the left breast for 2 feedings and either not pumping the un nursed breast or only allowing for leaking to comfort. She has done this several times doing it for 4 feedings in a day for a few days in a row. She has done this more than once. She has also used Cabbage leaves for the engorgement at times. She has tried pumping some off when she is too engorged for him to nurse, and when she has done this she has gotten from 2-4 ounces from one breast and still he nursed from just one breast for the feeding. She doesn't like to do this because then she ends up even more engorged and so she double nurses again to back it all down. She nurses from one breast a feeding and does not switch except on the rare occassion that he wouldn't go back on the first breast but still wanted to nurse, this only happens when her supply is what she considers comfortable. He nurses every 3 hours even when he is extremely fussy, and again she has tried to get him to nurse more frequently but he fights it until he is ready. He just seems miserable much of the time, and mom is exhausted and tired of being engorged. I can only go by what I observe and what mom tells me is happening at home but I do believe that mom is a reliable source even though the situations do not seem to go together.
I hope this clarifies things a little, I can give more details if this would help, I am sure I left some things out.
I am going to share this information with mom, I will let you all know how it works out, I really appreciate the advice, I had not thought of the 12 hour one breast feedings at all. THANKS FOR BEING THERE FOR ME!
- Pam Price IBCLC, RLC... with every experience I learn more... thank you all.
... see Jean Cotterman's response previous post
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