> Anyone who thinks that the few extra minutes of time spent "with a baby who
> can't feed at breast" makes up for not giving him pumped breast milk is
> seriously clueless.  It doesn't take that long to pump -- either with your
> hands or with a breast pump.

I think one has to admit that everyone's got different priorities in
life.  I must say that although to begin with I easily got 3 oz in under
a minute's pumping (on a crappy pump, to top it off!), that didn't last
long, and it now takes a good 20 minutes to get 8 ounces.  One has to
actually *get up* at night, to pump, then feed the baby (or have the
husband do that), which means "really waking up"...something I've not
done for the past 11 months!  I do not see exclusive pumping as an "easy
task" at all.

That said, I was set to do it *myself* if I had had a cleft baby:  this
was the one problem I suspected I had any chance of encountering, as my
own brother has a wide bilateral cleft lip and palate (i.e. the palate
was virtually not there...there were gums on both sides and a large
large gaping hole all the way between the 2).  Who knows if I'd have
thrown my hands up in frustration after 2 months too, but that was my
thought, was that if I'd had a cleft baby, who was unable to bf (I'd
have tried hard, believe me, to bf!), I'd pump for him/her.

>  The poor kid started life with a cleft palate,
> and now he'll have a host of other health problems and a lower IQ, just so
> his mother can spend an extra 40 minutes a day with him? 
I understand your reasoning, and I agree on the one hand...but on the
other hand, one has to wonder if the extra game-time (playing etc.) with
Mom could help make up for some of the lower IQ...maybe not "8 points",
but maybe some!

> understand, sorry.  Even if it took 6 hours extra a day, it would be worth
> it to make sure he got breast milk.  I just can't understand the logic of
> people who give up breastfeeding and breast milk so easily.
I can't understand people giving up *breastfeeding* easily...but I
seriously *can* (after my stint with pumps, as an "occasional" "part
time" endevour) understand giving up exclusive pumping.

> And whenever I
> read about clefts, I think about the 5 year old in Mali with a bilateral
> cleft of the palate and upper lip -- who breastfed for two years, just like
> everyone else.  His mother reported no trouble at all breastfeeding him, and
> acted puzzled as to why I would even ask if she had had any problems.
You know, it's hearing stories like this that make me wish that some of
these moms from these situations could be "beamed up" to our society,
and could "show" the rest of us numb-skulls how they do it!  Because
having corresponded with lots of people on Wide Smiles mailing list in
the few months before I gave birth, I did not find *one* person who had
a positive experience breastfeeding a cleft baby, except those with only
lip involvement (and I gather that only lip involvement is much more
rare than only palate involvement).  Some of them pumped longer, and
seemed to do better at getting the milk out...but some women just never
made enough for their baby *exclusively* pumping:  even after using
things like fenugreek and Domperidone, they'd still fall short.  Some of
this might be long-term pump resistance, some of it might be helped by
better pumps (not for everyone, but in certain cases), some of it might
be helped by other things...but in general, there was very much
applauding of moms who managed to stick it out more than 3-4 months on a
pump.

I agree totally that human milk is *the* way to go:  it is *the* natural
food...and like I say, it would be *really* neat to get an "expert" such
as the mom you met in Mali, to show us how to do it...but in reality,
unless you've got such resources, if you end up having lots of problems,
you are unable to latch your own baby, unable to find a LC who can help
you do so (in the case of a cleft affected baby, I'm talking still), end
up exclusively pumping, and not getting much for your efforts (i.e. baby
drinks 4 oz and you get 2...baby drinks 6 oz and you get 2.5...), and
your baby screams whenever put down (high needs baby) and you end up
plugged up with a pump 20 minutes every 2 hours...I can totally totally
understand giving up.  We're human beings, not robots that can go on and
on and on and on (oh...sorry, that's the Energizer Bunny!).  ;-) 
Now...aside note:  wouldn't it be neat to see an Energizer bunny pumping
away with an energizer-powered pump for an ad?  ;-)  LOL...

> I wonder if the lack of bonding led to the decision
> to give up on breastfeeding so easily, or if the giving up on breastfeeding
> led to the lack of bonding.
Perhaps in that mom,s case, it had a big impact.  However, the mom I
know, who I was talking about, was very very bonded to her baby...she
cuddled him and held him constantly, wore him in a sling, cuddled him
while he was feeding...and fed him artificial milk.  Sad for the baby
for the nutrition aspect, but happy for his emotional life, I think.  If
I imagine as a baby we don't "know" that mom is still there...if I
equate that as being locked up in a cold dark room with no one, for
hours and hours (it may seem so to a baby even if it's only 15 min.) and
someone comes along to feed you once in a while (after pumping), or
being held most of the time, being cuddled, sang to, played with...it's
hard to choose...a dark prison (so to speak) with nice exotic meals...or
freedom (seemingly) in a nice warm place, all soft and squooshy (is that
a real word?) with subnormal food?  Hmm...decisions...

Fio (Mom to Sandrine Leïlou, 13/03/00 who would have gotten pumped MM
had she been cleft affected...but whose mom might just have had a lot
less patience with a pump than with her child's nursing...and might just
have not toughed it out 12 months...but whose mom hopes to keep going
and going and going on to that "natural weaning", now that the first
humps are gone!).

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