LACTNET Archives

Lactation Information and Discussion

LACTNET@COMMUNITY.LSOFT.COM

Options: Use Forum View

Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Nina Berry <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:40:12 +1100
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (132 lines)
 "American culture has a firm belief that babies use mom as pacifiers."  
This is true here too.  In fact mothers often express a fear that they will
become 'human dummies' (we call them dummies here, as in dummy (or false)
nipple).  On reflection I do find this a really odd inversion.  Why was the
dummy created?  To pacify babies whose suckling instinct, a manifestation of
their need to be in close physical contact with their mothers, was no longer
met at their feeding times.  Why?  Because leisurely, frequent feeding at
the breast had been usurped by the more efficient 'hand feeding' devised by
men.
Is it not true then, that babies use their pacifiers as mothers? Would this
not mean that there is a far greater risk of a pacifier becoming a dummy
human than a mother becoming a human dummy? (Although perhaps it is more
accurate to say that mothers use pacifiers as breasts ...) 
hmmm 
Nina Berry
Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: Lactation Information and Discussion
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan Burger
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Oversupply or asynchrony

I'm missing Pamela Morrison's voice and I want Rachel Myr to pipe up hear
---- although I don't know the sleep norms in Norway.

But, I'm thinking about the anatomical variations we see and wondering what
really happens in cultures that did not have as much disruption to normal
sleep rhythms and practiced intuitive observation of infant cues for
decisions on switching breasts.  It dawned on me that we are talking about
block feeding, which I do use.  And I never ever tell mothers with an
oversupply to pump just a little to take the edge off --- I tell them to
drain completely once a day if they need to in order to prevent blocked
ducts. 

Here is the part that I can't figure out.  Why is it that the Kung (I forget
where the explanation point goes) feed their babies constantly --- as in
many African cultures up to 20 times a day and their babies are almost never
unhappy.  Granted I was single when I worked in Africa, but I don't ever
remember mothers complaining about anything that ressembles colic, but I
wasn't asking and I was not really considered a "woman" yet because I hadn't
had a child.  

Yet here we are in our modern societies having a problem where we have to
stretch out breast drainage for long periods of time.  At least in the US,
bed sharing is considered so dangerous that the New York City department of
health is considering taking infants away from their mothers for doing so
--- and have not specified if this is merely for the mothers who are truly
at risk of overlaying on their infants or for everyone.

I can't blame this on increasing rates of obesity in developed countries
because that would presumably lead only to more fatty tissue, not more milk
storing tissue (and some 
of the women in Africa were quite obese at least in Central Africa.   

I actually don't believe in foremilk/hindmilk imbalance.  This is a theory
that no one has successfully "proven" in a form that I believe yet.  Over
the course of a 24 hour period, if the baby is getting all the milk that is
taken out of the breast, the baby is getting varying levels of fat and it
should all come out in the wash.

Could it be, that these mothers and babies fall out of synchrony because the
norm is to push the limits of tolerance.  That is, at the slightest sign the
baby is done, the baby is wrapped up and taught to "sleep" or "not become
reliant on mom".  If the baby has an anatomical variation that might be
perfectly fine in some other intuitively feeding culture, that baby might be
fine.  But, pushing things to the limit, what was once a "normal" range of
variation is no longer functional in an environment where babies are slipped
off the breast as soon as possible.  These mothers might then appear to be
"oversupplies" 
because their breasts are not getting adequate drainage because of premature
removal of the breast.  American culture has a firm belief that babies use
mom as pacifiers.  Then the baby slips off the breast more and more because
the breast is overly full.  And thus begins a vicious cycle of asynchrony.
Then mom starts round after round of food elimination to her own detriment,
getting more and more stressed out as she eliminates the food she likes
and/or needs.  

I have trouble believing that lactose --- the sugar that is so high in
breast milk --- somehow causes intolerance for the baby.  Gut transit time
yes, but lactose, I'm not convinced.  

Would those babies with posterior tongue ties actually do better in an
environment where mom had sufficient support to enable her to do so and
actually had a surrounding culture that enabled her to really growing up and
embracing the concept that she will actually enjoy a lot of contact with her
baby?  Is the poor feeding a matter of inadequate time and contact with mom
--- and the SYMPTOMS from inadequate drainage appear when there is
insufficient contact?

Is the preponderance of babies who seem to regurgitate painfully a product
of trauma during the birthing process that has never fully been addressed?
Or perhaps a product of lack of skin contact and baby wearing.  Babies in
Africa are always carried upright on the back --- never sideways and never
with their chins in their chests. 

And why is it that these babies do better lying down at night with both mom
and baby horizontal?  Does that skin contact relax mother and baby in ways
that are not possible during the day when they both are expected to be
"efficient".

And in defense of mothers --- just read any mothering magazine and really
count up the number of messages about all the things she is SUPPOSED to be
to so many other people than her baby.  

Some days everything I think I know seems to get called into question.

Best, Susan Burger

             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set
lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe:
unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions:
get lactnet welcome

             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail
2. To start it again: set lactnet mail
3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet
4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome

ATOM RSS1 RSS2