As far as I know, there is not. I know many Groups that hold meeting in hospitals. You are right, though, the real challenge is getting the hospital to give LLL meetings the space.
Sherri Langham
Automatic digest processor wrote:
> Subject: LACTNET Digest - 8 Dec 1997 to 9 Dec 1997
> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:01:34 -0500
> From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
> To: Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
> There are 10 messages totalling 275 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. restless babies, Pat Gima's response
> 2. pillows
> 3. Mother with "no oxytocin" again
> 4. Restless babies
> 5. pillows/or??
> 6. homicidal impulses
> 7. Lactnet, subscription names
> 8. FW: Pump Ethics, The Law and Federal Investigation
> 9. quints nursing
> 10. why LLL?
>
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> Kathleen B. Bruce BSN, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
> Kathleen G. Auerbach Ph.D, IBCLC [log in to unmask]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: restless babies, Pat Gima's response
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:31:51 EST
> From: Pearl Shifer <[log in to unmask]>
>
> I think this is a great suggestion.
> My nephew was hyperactive, had itchy raw patches on his ankles at age 2,
> and within
> two days after being taken off dairy (my suggestion) he was a different
> child!
> His little brother wasn't give dairy until age 2 and you've never seen a
> calmer, sweeter child with beautiful skin, who, BTW is still
> breastfeeding "nummying" at age 3.
>
> Pearl Shifer
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: pillows
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:31:52 EST
> From: Pearl Shifer <[log in to unmask]>
>
> A neck-roll pillow is great for a newborn, just put the pillow in mom's
> lap and baby is brought way up high, the pillow is nice and firm and the
> one I bought for my sister had a beautiful cover, removable and washable.
> In between it can decorate the couch.
>
> This was serendipitous, I was sent shopping for bed pillows and couldn't
> resist the neck roll bec. it was pretty, and it turned out to be a
> G-dsend. (The baby needed some suck retraining, provided by Auntie Pearl,
> and the pillow helped with positioning.)
>
> Pearl Shifer, IBCLC
> NYC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Mother with "no oxytocin" again
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:43:00 -0800
> From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
>
> I'd like the quick input of lactnetters on this one.
>
> I saw my mom with the "no oxytocin" today. She felt cramping everytime
> she put baby to breast, though it is diminishing; baby is now 6 days old.
>
> Problem: her mature milk has just "dribbled in" as of yesterday, not as
> strongly as with the others. Baby is *very* jaundiced but alert, active
> and vigorous, and mom has been supplementing with a few ounces of ABM
> each day from day 3/4. This is my first opportunity to assess mom
> physically, and now with a baby. Mom has very large nipples, probably 1/2
> ' diameter and 5/8" in length, almost bulbous. I asked her if they were
> always this size, or if they've grown with each pregnancy; she wasn't
> sure, but later thought perhaps they are a bit larger this time around
> (baby #3). This little guy also has an issue---- gulp---- he's
> tongue-tied. Definitely. The other two children are definitely not, but
> this guy's got a frenulum that at full stretch is less than 1 cm,
> attaches near the tip of the tongue and at the base of the lower alveolar
> ridge, and a mild heart forms when he tries to raise his tongue. Moderate
> elasticity of frenulum, frequent breaks in suction/cupping at finger. I
> would say that the combination of long nipples and tight frenulum make
> for an interesting match.
>
> Baby roots zealously and goes to town, but tended of course to mostly
> nipple feed. I gave him a little help to get more onto the areola and mom
> reported that he was doing more swallowing than she had previously seen.
> It looked really good, but.......... total intake at "full" breast was
> 12cc after 10-15 min of vigorous suckling and lots of jaw action and
> swallowing sounds. Jaw excursions exaggerated, probably compensatory.
> Put baby to second breast that he had been on before I came, less
> swallowing noted but scales reported -0- intake. Sigh.
>
> When I had arrived and checked mom's breasts, the "used" side expressed
> drops immediately when I compressed, and the "full" side immediately
> squirted me. After our bfg attempts on both sides, I tried pumping mom
> on "used" side for residual milk and got only a few drops. Couldn't hand
> express anything at that point either.
>
> I don't think oxytocin/let-down is an issue at all, though I did discover
> that mom smokes (not during pregnancy, and only 10 cigarettes in past 6
> days). I'm wondering why milk supply is less than expected at this
> point; has the frenulum impacted stimulation? No soreness in mom.
>
> Because of all of this mom's previous problems, I lean towards a more
> aggressive treatment: immediate clipping of frenulum. I am afraid to
> take the "wait and see" approach because mom has lost milk supply twice
> before. I encouraged her to discuss the bfg/frenulum issue with her ped,
> who "of course" said that frenulums grow and not to worry. She is open
> to seeking a clipping elsewhere *if* I strongly urge it. In the
> meantime, I'm having her put baby to breast first with our modified
> positioning 8+ times a day, then topping off with supplement. I'm having
> her take "More milk" about five times a day, and massage-pump-breast
> compression afterwards to collect anything left. I'm not sure if we
> didn't get anything because baby took it all and/or because her supply is
> really low, or if the pump has difficulty reaching the sinuses. I sure
> didn't have any trouble getting milk to squirt before the feeding, just
> had trouble after having had baby at breast. Saw mom at 2pm, she called
> at 6:30 to report on ped visit and tell me that she is again "leaking all
> over the place."
>
> My question--- would you "push" for a frenotomy in this situation as I
> feel inclined? I used Alison Hazelbaker's assessment and came up with
> scores of 11.5 on function (had difficulty assessing 2 items, gave baby
> benefit of the doubt) and 3.5 on appearance.
>
> -Lisa Marasco, BA, IBCLC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Restless babies
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:40:38 EST
> From: BFDoula <[log in to unmask]>
>
> I recommend the books by Dr. Sears THE FUSSY BABY and NIGHT TIME PARENTING and
> the book by Sandy Jones CRYING BABY, SLEEPLESS NIGHTS.
>
> Ruth Solomon, RN, IBCLC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: pillows/or??
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:04:15 -0800
> From: Rhoda Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
>
> I find the pillow discussion quite interesting. Specific nursing pillows are
> extremely difficult to locate here and are really only used by moms of
> multiples who can borrow them from the local support group. However I use
> pillows all the time to lift babies. In fact I use whatever comes to hand.
> Big teddy bears are great for wee ones with poor tone (the legs give extra
> support). I have also used stuffed ducks/chickens/bunnies, knitted clowns,
> blankets, towels or whatever there is available. Most if not all of the moms
> I see have NO money for extra food let alone pillows but stuffed animals are
> often given as gifts. I also encourage the use of footstools and again have
> used whatever there is. Many times it is car seats tipped up, or books, or
> boxes or cases of empty beer bottles (perfect size tipped on the side) or
> for a taller mom a six pack. Often the clients get a good laugh, but it
> works and is practical. And yes I do comment on alcohol consumption and
> infant care.
> >"Without interest and passion, nothing great has ever happened in history.
> GWF Hegel"
> Rhoda Taylor, B.A., IBCLC, Duncan, B.C., Canada<
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: homicidal impulses
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:36:06 -0600
> From: "Mary A. Banaszewski" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> A. Simmons,
> In your response to our "homicidal lactnetter" you stated:
>
> P.S. Am I correct in still thinking that we look at TOTAL wt. gain--from
> > > lowest pt. to current? If so, a 14 oz. weight gain in one week (or
> even
> > > ten days, if the visit was one week post-discharge) certainly seems
> > > adequate to me. Anybody, please correct me if I am wrong here.
>
> You are not wrong. Adequate weight gain in the early weeks is 1/2 oz. to 2
> oz. per day; with a weight gain of 14 oz. in 1 week, I'd say that's on the
> high side of adequate. Unless there was a misprint on the original posting,
> I would have to agree that this Doc is out of line.
> Mary A. Banaszewski RN, Lactation Specialist
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Lactnet, subscription names
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:39:26 -0500
> From: Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Just so you know, if you notice that your name formatting on your Lactnet
> subscription changes suddenly, please know that we, as Lactnet listowners,
> are making a few corrections, etc..to our files .to keep the records
> straight. All Lactnet subscribers should have full names as part of their
> subscription ids, etc, and we are changing some of these as we notice them,
> so that people will know who is writing to the list, etc. Additionally, It
> will help if you all remember to sign your full names on notes, not just
> your first name, etc.
>
> Thanks. Kathleen BRUCE ( : D )
> Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,TLC, Indep. Consultant
> http://together.net/~kbruce/kbbhome.html
> LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
> LACTNET WWW http://www.telcomplus.net/~kga/lactation.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: FW: Pump Ethics, The Law and Federal Investigation
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:28:17 -0800
> From: Barbara Peters <[log in to unmask]>
>
> ----------
> From: Barbara Peters[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 1997 12:25 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Pump Ethics, The Law and Federal Investigation
>
> I am in charge of a large OB Dept. in a major city. I was shocked to find out that many of "my" nurses had been recruited to sell and rent breast pump products to our patients. An investigation ensued and about 12 people lost their jobs because they had violated the hospital employee contract. Before it was over, the legal dept. of the hospital had also determined that many of our nurses had obtained their Medicaid provider status and were billing Medicaid for the rental pumps and other "gadgets" that they had determined were "medical necessities". Home visits were also being made by these same nurses during their off hours. The hospital received complaints from patients who were offered home visits by hospital nurses and only realized at the end of a lengthy "consultation" that they were being charged $75 an hour for an elaborate sales pitch on everything from lanolin to foot stools and pillows.
> As a nurse manager, I felt betrayed by my own nurses and by the two breast pump companies who train their reps to sign up hospital nurses as inside sales reps.
> I have heard that there is a federal investigation looking at this right now, but do not know if there's any truth to it. This industry is so full of lies and deception that I don't know what to believe. I do know that when lactation consultants started getting provider status and trying to "self-refer", they crossed a line that sometimes ends up landing people behind bars of the federal prison. Perhaps someone who has a law degree can explain it better than I.
> The best proof of a conflict of interest is the ongoing debate on the subject. Our hospital no longer has lactation consultants....we brought all staff nurses up to a standard competancy in lactation...and are on our way to baby friendly status. I am looking for an alternative to the two GIANT breast pump companies who have created this mess. I blame them for the embarassment and terrible waste of time created by their marketing programs that target staff nurses. Anyone know of any other companies that make decent breast pumps? Please e mail me privately. Barb Peters, RN, BSN
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: quints nursing
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:02:39 EST
> From: Jane <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Pumping a gallon milk a day for quints!? I am utterly in awe as one who nursed
> one at a time. This is definitely
> going on my list of examples of women who overcame difficulties, to use at
> meetings!
>
> Jane Khondker
> Potsdam NY
> LLL Leader
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: why LLL?
> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:23:28 -0800
> From: Glenn Evans <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Is there something that would prevent a LLLL from holding meetings at a local hospital? (Besides the logistics of getting the hospital to give you the meeting space for free?) Chanita
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