Diane, you write:

>>Self esteem is earned thru work and accomplishment. You WERE one of
those,,,,hmm,,,just how is it you pulled yourself out of all that living
hell.(BTW, i was one of "THEM" too)  People on welfare make an equalivalent
to a $30,000 a year job. I dont think that is all that bad.  (With full
benefits)>>

How did I pull myself out of going hungry so my kid could eat?  How did I
pull myself out of an abusive relationship?  How did I pull myself out of a
roach infested apartment where my next door neighbor regularly tried to rape
me? How did I pull myself out of the mental depression and anguish of BEING
raped 3 times? Gee, uhh, I guess it wasn't all that hard.  I tried to committ
suicide one night.  That's how.  But someone stopped me, and there was no one
in my house.  (My gaurdian angel, I guess)  I somehoe managed to get some
psychiatric help to get my depression taken care of and get some help with my
self-esteem.
I certainly didn't have the equivalent of a $30,000 a year job.  Never have
as a matter of fact.  I don't know where you got that statistic that folks on
welfare make that much with all services combined.  If they did, they'd be
living a hell of a lot better than they are. (Yes I know there are a lot of
people out there abusing the system, but I was not one of them.  In fact
every time I tried to get a job, I ended up making less money than if I had
just stayed on welfare alone.  THey kick you when you're down, then kick you
harder when you try to goet out.)  I finally was off welfare totally when my
hubby and I moved in together and I figured with a little help from a friend
(since we were just friends at the time) to share the expenses, I could make
it on my own.

<< And you complain about not having health care yet you have a
computer and your on-line ( You'd have a heck of a time convincing me that
you should take my money to pay for your health care insurance.)>>

For your information, the computer was a gift from my father-in-law to my
husband 3 years ago.  And my on-line time is, although not as expensive since
I don't get on and rack up the charges, paid by my friend for whom I get
Lactnet for.  I started getting Lactnet for my friend and got hooked myself.
 But she pays for it.  I don't.  This kind of thing simply is not in my
budget as a reasonable expense.  I won't tell you how much we make, but
suffice it to say, we are well under the poverty level in income, and we
don't come close to $30,000 a year.  (gee, guess we make less than those
welfare-ites!)

 <<I also dont think it does anyone on govt assistance any good to  portray
them as "poor souls" or less than educated, You got out of the enslavement of
Welfare ...so
did I, and many others.But, hey, maybe we are the exception.>>

Maybe it doesn't do them any good, and maybe there are a bunch who aren't
poor souls, but it is, IMHO, a term that certainly applies to many of the
folks on welfare I have seen and known.  And, in fact, many of them are less
than educated.  With the rates of teenage pregnancy, and generations of
families on welfare, it is no wonder they are less than educated.  They never
even have a chance to get a good education to use to TRY and get out of their
own personal hellhole.
We are the exception, and we should NOT forget that.  I worked my ass off to
get where I am today, and I am proud of that.  My mother worked her ass off
to put food on our table when we were kids, working 2-3 jobs at a time,
sometimes only able to afford potatoes and eggs for weeks at a time.  She was
never even allowed public assistance.  I can tell you it was no fun having
crappy sitters that left us at school for hours by ourselves, then being
latchkey kids at the age of 8, only getting one pair of pants, one shirt, one
pair of socks and one pair of panties (if we were lucky) to start school with
at the beginning of the year.  You want to talk poor?  YOu want to talk
kicked around?  You want to talk underpriviledged?  I could go on for days.
 But I was the exception.  And I am proud of that.  I have a supportive
family of in-laws who help us when we need it (like putting food on our
table).
When I was working full time, I didn't have health care.  My son doesn't have
healthcare.  If we paid for it ourselves it would take food out of my kids
mouths to do so.  So what do we do?  Go hungry to pay an insurance bill?  No,
we have the federal govt who is supposed to help us out.  Do they?  No.  WHy?
 Because I am married and my son has a father.  Yep, you heard right folks.
 My oldest son is covered because his father is out of the picture.  So
technically, he doesn't have a dad.  So he is covered.  My hubbys employer
pays for his medical ins., but won't cover the family.  So we hope that the
baby and I don't get sick.  I paid into this system for a long time, before
and after using it.  My husband pays into it daily.  We are the people the
system is supposed to help.  We get nothing, and meanwhile some ^&%$# mexican
national (who happens to be quite wealthy) manages to get the state of
Califonias Medi-Cal system to pay for his million $$ heart transplant!  He
gets it free, and folks like me who need it so badly get nothing.  So don't
worry, your $$ isn't going to pay for my healthcare.  And, by the way,
neither are my hubbys.  Just a little unfair if you ask me.

Diane, I think it would be best if you don't assume what people have gone
through to get out of their situation.  I think it would be best if you
didn't flame people for their remarks.  You don't know where I have been, and
you don't know how dark my "Hell-hole" has been.  I could tell some things
about what I have been through in my life that would make your ears curl.  I
have seen things people dream about in nightmares, my friend.  Don't ever
assume anything in this world.  You can offend many people by doing so, and
hurt many feelings.  This list has a mixture of folks who have lived the
golden life and thos who have lived a life of hell.  We must all remember
that, and strive to be sensitive to each other.  I don't criticize people for
the way they live or have lived, that is not my place.  I don't expect people
who are on-line to be rich or well to do.  In fact, I don't expect anything
from anyone on this list to be anything but repsectful.  We all have our own
opinions about political things, but we must remember NOT to place those
political beliefs on how other people live or have lived.
Your comments offended me, hurt my feelings and made me angry.
What a nice way to start the day.  Thank goodness I have a cute 21 mo old to
make me laugh.
Jay Simpson
(who is still fighting to get out of her own personal hell-hole as the result
of what she has lived through)