> After three weeks of informed debate, we're back where we started... Agreed. Everyone's had their chances to present their evidence. And no one seems to have shifted their previously-held interpretations of that evidence. Some of us feel that the evidence to date (to me, notably Daly and Mangus, links below) strongly indicate that phenogically and genetically distinct free-living and managed populations coexist in many areas, whether honey bees were endemic or introduced. Others, whose opinions I greatly respect, do not. The honey bees don't give a whit about our opinions, and will continue to adapt and evolve, no matter how we classify them or what names we use to describe them. " https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/1991/06/Apidologie_0044-8435_1991_22_6_ART0003.pdf " " https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Allen-Szalanski/publication/259785901_Mitochondrial_DNA_Diversity_of_Honey_Bees_Apis_mellifera_from_Unmanaged_Colonies_and_Swarms_in_the_United_States/links/544e30610cf26dda088e5e77/Mitochondrial-DNA-Diversity-of-Honey-Bees-Apis-mellifera-from-Unmanaged-Colonies-and-Swarms-in-the-United-States.pdf " Randy Oliver Grass Valley, CA 530 277 4450 ScientificBeekeeping.com *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html