Hi all, 

You are very right, the heat needs to come out of this discussion. And in my opinion, that can only be done if all components contributing to it, are analyzed. 
However, I do take your words very seriously - but not without pointing out something. Lactnet has over 3.000 subscribers/members. Only a small group (less than 10?) comment on your posting - me being one of them. 

Me, as I pointed out before, who has no role in the (English speaking) academic world, nor in the 'lactating' world. There is an absolute inbalance of reputation and power there - making me feel like the dwarf speaking up against the giant. That is okay, but perhaps something to consider. On top of that, this discussion in which people hardly engage, has led to a flood of emails to my private email (and to everyone vaguely involved at an admin-level within LLL), from people yelling at me how on earth I can criticize you. Definitely: the heat needs to come out of this discussion. 

I will engage on one specific aspect of the paper, an aspect I am very familiair with: La Leche League. 

The paper states: 
In the context of global public health, an increasing encouragement, or requirement, to desex language by international organizations or funders based in the USA/the West may be experienced not only as confusing but also as cultural and linguistic imperialism (148, 149). This view was recently expressed by over 250 breastfeeding counselors from 45 countries to the Board of the USA-based breastfeeding support organization La Leche League who stated that changes in language requirements were being experienced as “colonialist” and “oppressive” (150).

--------La Leche League does not *require* to *desex language*. It does not *require changes in language*. I don't know whó told you this, nor do I know how you accessed an internal document, but this statement is simply not correct. 
A bit more background: La Leche League is a huge, international organisation. LLLI is the 'legal' part of the organisation, incorporated in the USA and made up out of a management and a Board of Directors. The Board members are democratically elected representatives from all over the world. 
LLLI has taken it upon themselves to use *gender diverse* language and a *variety of terms*. So yes, on its own website and in its own social media outings LLLI will use a variety of terms INCLUDING mother and women. 

La Leche League entities around the world have great freedom in how they address the people they work with. After all, they know their audience best. The policies LLLI created on the use of language and cultural sensitivity are publically accessible: 
https://www.llli.org/about/policies-standing-rules/psr-language-in-llli-in-publications/
https://www.llli.org/about/policies-standing-rules/psr-accessibility-and-cultural-sensitivity/


Another thing I would like to give into consideration. 
LLL is a mission-based, non-profit, service organisation. It is run by volunteers, who have a voice in every administrative level, every boardcommittee, in the board itself - which is democratically elected. The organisation has eight 'networks', mostly geographical, as a way to be organized around the world in workable 'chunks'. The creation of these networks is entirely voluntairily and up to the local volunteers. 
As representation often goes hand in hand with number of people - the composition of board (committees) is painstakingly monitored to be aware of this, and often has more voices from smaller, non-English-speaking 'networks'. 
In facing the outwards world, LLLI responds to the needs of the audience they (try to) serve - because after all, that is what you are supposed to do as an organisation of this type. 

I would greatly appreciate the statement being corrected. 


Lydia de Raad
Volunteer counsellor La Leche League (LLL) Netherlands (Europe)
All opinions expressed in this email are my own


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Lactation Information and Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Karleen Gribble
Verzonden: woensdag 4 mei 2022 03:47
Aan: [log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: Paper on use of sexed language in communication on maternity

Hi Lydia,
I am glad that you are willing to come back to the conversation. I would however reiterate that I think that the personal comments are unhelpful. I think it might be necessary for me to  point out that some of your comments in your earlier email suggested that we misrepresented our work and even that the authors engaged in academic misconduct was.That is a very serious thing indeed. In addition, I think that you cannot understand how we approached the paper beyond what we wrote which should be considered in the context of our collectively hundreds of years of work to support maternal and child health in global context our record (published and available for all to read). 
I welcome comment on the substance of the paper. It is through such discussion that we can improve our understanding and find better ways of working. However, the heat needs to come out of this subject in order for that to occur and again, speculation on individual motivations etc should not have a place.
Karleen Gribble
Australia


> Subject: Re: Paper on use of sexed language in communication on maternity
> 
> Karleen wrote: 
> 
> Hi Lydia,
> 
> I am always happy to have a conversation and I think that on this topic there has not been as much conversation as there should have been. I think though that your personal comments are unhelpful. I am speaking of export of culture and policy have not targeted any individuals. If you have evidence to suggest that the desexing of language has not come from the US and is not being spread (sometimes forcibly) to other countries and cultures, please share. The authors of the paper have seen it in their work. 
> 
> 
> -------Thank you for continuing the discussion and making room for opinions. I think we approach this from different angles. While you are 'in' your paper, I look from a distance - and try to analyze not only the content of the paper, but also its surroundings. And yes, then I start by looking who created the paper. And why. (I guess we all sort of know breastfeeding is often played out in the 'hobby'-corner, not in the Big Official Research corner; let alone having 'clean' money going towards it, instead of formula-company-money). And how it is composed. I understand you perceive it as (probably?) as personal attacks - but I really just try to make a list of publically available information on the background of the writers/reviewers. Because we all take ourselves with us in what we do, and how are lenses are. 
> 
> I also think it is not argued that the white kaukasian male is 'the standard' in research related to health. This is damaging to females and to people who are not white. I think the horrific story of Serena Williams (the tennisplayer) around her pregnancy/birth-experiences is a clear example on how black women are treated in the US healthcare system. And as I understand it, this is not unique for countries where black females aren't the dominant population. And even if they áre, the fact they are female is a disadvantage. 
> 
> Furthermore, I think the world of 'research' (and all the things attached to it) is a predominant western, white playfield where English is the main language. 
> 
> So, yes. I am white. I am female. I am European. English is my third language. When I read a paper, I try to 'downplay' my own lense, or at least: try to be aware of it. Many many many things I dump in the 'oh well, typical American'-little box in my head. When the word 'colonialism' is used, it peaks my attention - coming from an embarrassing colonizing culture, who still often considers itself better than the rest of the world. 
> 
> 
> I am going to address the other points in your email somewhere in the upcoming week. I need to do some thinking, as my first reaction is: nope, I don't see it as a problem. But that is probably just my simplistic mind. 
> 
> 
> Lydia de Raad
> Volunteer counsellor La Leche League (LLL) Netherlands (Europe)
> All opinions expressed in this email are my own

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