Dear Lactnet Friends:

Dr. Dedman's post and Jennifer Tow's post reflect two opposite ends of the
spectrum in health; one purely allopathic, and the other from the
complementary and alternative world.

Both are classic, and both contain truth.

My suggestion is to try one, and if the situation improves after a few
weeks, stick with it. If not, then change.

Science, as a reflection of human behavior, has its strengths and
weaknesses, accuracies and flaws.

warmly,
Nikki Lee


 Date:    Sun, 5 Feb 2012 13:50:56 -0500
> From:    Liz Dedman <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: baby allergic to everything
>
> I was going to refrain from responding to this post, until the quote was
> used "show me the science".
> There is absolutely no science behind anything suggested in this post.  And
> your challenge to show me the science behind protein intolerance is the
> only science that exists here.  Leaky gut? Challenging vaccines? Come on.
> We really need to move past these stumbling blocks that have prevented
> science from progressing based on theories and rumors that cause panic
> among uninformed consumers. Toxins? Just the use of this term demonstrates
> the lack of science here.  What toxins, specifically, are you discussing?
> Edible clay? Ugggh.
> Protein allergy is a misnomer here.  It is not a protein allergy at all, it
> is a protein intolerance.  There is plenty of science that demonstrates
> that the vast majority of infants that do not tolerate cows milk protein or
> soy in moms diet will tolerate it as the gut matures.  The GI doctor does
> "get" what is going on.  Soy elimination will probably help tremendously.
> I do agree with your suggestion of probiotics, although breastfed babys'
> guts usually are well populated with healthy flora.  They may help mom.
> I really disagree with the notion that mom's breastmilk may be toxic.  Just
> suggesting this and using this language is very undermining to this mom and
> her mission.
> I know that there are a lot of opinions on this listserv and this may be a
> very unpopular post.  But this was a very strong worded response, and I
> think lacking in a lot of science itself.
> I cannot help but be a voice for science here.  I think it is our
> obligation to protect babies from disease with nature and science.
>
> Liz Dedman, MD, FAAP, IBCLC
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Jennifer Tow, IBCLC <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
>
> > This describes at least half the dyads I see in my practice and 90% of
> the
> > moms who email me asking for advice. It is an epidemic caused by our
> > medication+abx-loving/vaccinating/medicalized birthing/artificial
> > feeding/nutrient-starved culture.
> >
> >
> > This story is why I am not an advocate of chasing allergens--there will
> > always be more. An elimination diet that does not address gut healing
> > misses the boat entirely. Once mom's intestinal lining is compromised
> > ("leaky") everything passes through, not just proteins and antibodies,
> but
> > toxic metabolites that are a normal part of digestion--but that should
> > never enter the bloodstream. In effect, when these very desperate moms
> say
> > that they feel their milk is toxic to their babies--in effect--it is.
> >
> >
> > BUT!!!! Human milk contain s stem cells and antibodies and growth factor
> > and hormones and all manner of magical ingredients, so the ONLY way to
> heal
> > the baby is at the breast, IMO. Mom must heal her own gut while she heals
> > the baby.
> >
> >
> > Others have mentioned some pertinent facts--especially as to HCl--HCl is
> > often the first defense to be taken down by medications (half of all
> people
> > who take antacids have destroyed their intestinal lining). For example,
> > TUMS during pregnancy is very dangerous to the baby's gut integrity since
> > it damages the mother's. Once HCl is destroyed, flora migrates and
> > ferments, rather than digests food. The fewer foods people consume, the
> > less the variety of gut flora--the greater the likelihood of obesity and
> > inflammation (and lowered IQ, BTW--which I think is what happens to the
> IQ
> > margin between breast and AF kids after they begin the Western process of
> > gut damage that tends to go with growing up).
> >
> >
> > So, mom needs to repopulate flora--but that does nothing to stop the
> > toxins from entering her blood stream. Nor do digestive enzymes, although
> > they can break down fats and proteins so that they are less irritating.
> She
> > has to rebuild the digestive lining.
> >
> >
> > I do not think the GI doc gets what is going on at all--the baby isn't
> > supposed to break down all those proteins--they aren't supposed to be
> > getting into mom's blood or into her milk. My guess is that mom is
> > malnourished and as she is not getting mineralized (you need fat to
> absorb
> > minerals) and you need a healthy intestinal lining. So, neither is baby.
> > Being "free of allergens" is ridiculous---these products still destroy
> the
> > gut--with ingredients like corn syrup. And "most protein allergens are
> > outgrown by 12-13 mos"? Show me the science. That is absurd. People do
> not
> > outgrow allergies--symptoms change--usually going deeper into the system
> > and cause more inflammatory and systemic issues. I would also be worried
> > about an eosinophil disorder--and get on gut healing right away.
> >
> >
> > I would be very curious about mom's history of abx, oral contraceptive
> and
> > medication use as well as whether or not she was bf and born
> vaginally--as
> > well as these questions for the baby. Gut flora is our heritage--it is
> > passed through generations and defines us in the world--from our immune
> > system to cognitive function genetic expression to our personalities.
> >
> >
> > I would want to see the baby and mom on probiotic foods, assessed for
> > deficiencies in zinc, mag, vitD, vit A, vit K, B12 (bet fat solubles are
> > all low), add saturated fats for both mom and baby, use an edible clay to
> > absorb toxic die-off, use a very high quality probiotic slowly building
> to
> > a high dosage for both of them, possibly L-Glutamine for mom (heals the
> > intestinal lining) and as someone suggested do an HCl challenge for mom.
> >
> >
> > A very good ND would be her best bet locally--but I would find someone
> who
> > understands gut healing.
> >
> >
> > Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, France
> > Intuitive Parenting Network, LLC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Date:    Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:18:50 -0600
> > From:    Lynn Carter <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: baby allergic to everything
> >
> > Permission to post.  Mom's email is below.  We've known something was
> wrong
> > for a while, at least that he had intolerances.  Now he is actually
> losing
> > weight.  Mom told me this morning that they are only now eliminating soy
> > and corn, so maybe they will see improvement there.  They've been gluten
> > and dairy and egg free for some time.  Mom is committed to breastfeeding,
> > and will do whatever it takes not to have to switch to elemental formula.
> > The family is nearly always vegan, always vegetarian, and I asked her if
> > she would be willing to eat turkey and lamb, since those are proteins
> that
> > baby O has never been exposed to, even in utero.  She said she's not
> > excited about the possibility, but will do whatever it takes.  Much of
> what
> > typical Amercans would consider less common, like quinoa or millet, is
> > stuff that they would eat frequently.  My kiddos had loads of
> intolerances,
> > but a strict elimination diet took care of it.  Baby O may need more than
> > that.  Mom would like a second opinion, so if anyone has recommendations
> in
> > mid-Missouri, we'd be glad to have them.  Thanks for whatever help you
> can
> > provide.
> >
> > Lynn Carter OFS LLLL IBCLC
> > Missouri, USA
> >
> > **********************************
> >
> > We wanted to fill you in on what is and has been happening with O (now 8
> > months).  He has been having some intestinal and digestive issues for
> most
> > of his 8 months.  I stopped eating gluten when he was 6 weeks old.  He
> > showed great improvement after that.  A few weeks later I also cut out
> eggs
> > and peanuts from my diet.  Again he showed great improvement.  All of
> these
> > things were hunches I had.  Whenever I have consumed these foods again he
> > has intestinal distress and is inconsolable.
> >
> > He was doing great until about 6 months.  At which point he stopped
> > gaining weight and over the next two months started to lose weight.  He
> has
> > had a lot of tests done: lead level (3), thyroid
> > (fine), enzymes (no deficiencies), urine analysis (clear), abdominal
> x-ray
> > (showed he has a substantial amount of stools).  At this point his doctor
> > was out of suggestions, and he had lost almost 1 pound in a week and a
> > half.  I asked if we could get a referral to a specialist.
> >
> > Yesterday we went to see a pediatric gastroenterologist in Columbia, MO.
> >  He concluded that Oakley has a "milk protein allergy."  He said this was
> > to clear to him because of Oakley's symptoms and a reoccurring diaper
> rash,
> > that he said was not actually a rash, but an acid burn from his urine.
> >  Basically, his body can't break down certain proteins, and instead turns
> > them into acids. He went on to tell me the only way I could help him was
> to
> > stop breastfeeding and feed him a hypoallergenic formula.  His reasoning
> > for this was that it's free of allergens and the proteins that are there
> > have already been broken down so that the baby doesn't have to digest
> them.
> >  The issue with continuing to breastfeed on an elimination diet (one
> where
> > we continue to remove certain foods from our diet) is that it could be a
> > protein from *any* food and there's no way of accurately testing which
> one
> > it is.  Also, he said that most protein allergies are outgrown at 12-13
> > months.
> >
> > This was obviously heartbreaking for me, and we want to do research of
> our
> > own.  From talking to a nutritionist and breastfeeding advocate, it seems
> > that the hypoallergenic formula isn't the only way to help Oakley.  We
> are
> > continuing to do our own research and hoping to get information from
> other
> > doctors, lactation consultants/advocates, dietitians, anyone that we can
> > think of.  Continuing to breastfeed in a way that Oakley can thrive is
> our
> > goal.  If you or anyone you know would be able to give us helpful
> > information, suggestions for referrals, or know of people what would be
> > helpful and supportive in the medical community, it would be
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Please refrain from giving personal opinions, unless they are positive
> and
> > or supportive.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > M
> >
>

             ***********************************************

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