Sharon writes:

Please  note that I didn't complete one of the sentences, sorry!  Below, in 
 italics, is the completed sentence.

~~~
Hi Sharon,
I don't think LN shows italics, I didn't see anything, but it did remind me 
 of something. In addition to all the things you suggested, one thing that 
worked  with a mom was this:
 
Note: mom had extreme engorgement, but not mastitis,
 
~the old tip for moms without pumps, but for different reasons.
This mom had a pump, had several actually, second baby:  wicked,  painful 
engorgement with first baby ( did not know her then) and now also  really 
wicked engorgement with second, same breast, one side only. No milk  moving, 
extreme pain and swelling. Mom couldn't get baby on ( skin so taut and  firm 
there was no way to latch), couldn't tolerate even more than one try, also  
pump did nothing/too painful to even feel it on her if I remember correctly. 
So,  this sequence did it:
Mom on her back, flat, to try to move fluid away from the nipple/areolar  
area, followed by mom rolling to side, torso at the edge of the couch, with 
me  supporting breast with my hand in the air ( so no pressure, just light  
supporting.) ( We discussed this before, how it might go and she was  
willing).
Large mouth glass jar filled with hot water ( not scalding, but hot)  
pressed lightly but firmly around the area but not touching the nipple or nearby  
at all. When the water cooled, the glass created a light but working 
pressure  gradient and some milk began to be released. 
With her permission, I did some  light hand expression, while she was still 
on her side, then I held her  baby where she could latch herself on, and 
she began to nurse.
Mom's breast softened significantly. Still some engorgement to deal with,  
over the next days, but now mom could be sitting up, milk was releasing, and 
 it didn't keep the baby from nursing ever again and they worked through  
it.
 
Peace,
Judy 
 
Judy LeVan  Fram, PT, IBCLC, LLLL
Brooklyn, NY,  USA
[log in to unmask]

             ***********************************************

Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html
To reach list owners: [log in to unmask]
Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask]
COMMANDS:
1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail
2. To start it again: set lactnet mail
3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet
4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome