From an original post by Judy:
"Don't throw your money away on this brand name. Your baby will be perfectly fine if given a lesser priced product. To prove the point, take a moment and compare ingredient labels of Enfamil and a cheaper brand. Infant formula must have certain ingredients regardless of the label name. You'll see that contents are the same. So, start saving money now."

Since my post is the one that got the ball rolling on this, I think I should respond. My response was
"Correction: your baby will be as perfectly not fine as all of the other perfectly not fine AF babies."

Clark Howard is right that all products must have certain ingredients-- all are equally inferior to human milk. My post was a comment on the cultural attitude that pervades this society--that babies do just fine on formula. This idea is treated as a valid premise upon which other truths may be built (such as the one that babies sleep through the night by 6 weeks or that it is normal for the majority of babies to suffer from ear infections, etc). It is a false premise and all that is built upon it is also false.
    Those of us who have worked with mothers for many years have wrestled over and over with the dilemna of how to educate about the "benefits of human milk" or the "hazards of artificial feeding" or all the other potential ways of communicating what we know both through evidence and experience about breastfeeding. We do not all agree about this. But all of Tony's arguments have been made on this list before--over and over again. Even more so, they tend to be the arguments made by those who believe in breastfeeding--to a point. As Kathy D. said in the post about breast cancer --how we say what we say matters very much. None of us has found the perfect answer so far, but I think the majority on this list have come to the (internally) hard-won concept that hedging our bets about the dangers of AF doesn't work.
    LLL has tried for over 40 years to work the "breast is best" concept into making breastfeeding the cultural norm. It hasn't worked, nor will it ever work. It may work w/ individuals, but not w/ an entire culture. It is just a very weak argument. Human beings (please, not everyone is the same, I know) are far more motivated to move away from pain than they are to move toward pleasure. If something fails, why keep defending it as making sense--or arguing that it should work?
    I have to say that it does not really bother me to see Tony posting his perspective on this list--it certainly helps to remind us how passionate we are. It also has served to remind us that even though we on this list have batted this about "a million" times, bf proponents elsewhere have not and are still almost all funtioning from the "breast is best" paradigm. (I do realize there is not total agreement about this here either, but certainly more awareness about it among everyone).
    What I do have a problem with is the following:
"This is, I feel, an unhelpfully rabid response."

No one has ever called me rabid before!

" I am a proponent of breast feeding and lecture regularly on the benefits. However, I do feel that we
 need to accept that in the vast majority of cases formula feeds do NOT damage children. Even where children suffer from diseases which [statistically] might be avoided by breast feeding it is crucial not to be judgemental as this induces stress with no benefit to child or family. We also need to accept that breast fed children also suffer from diabetes or may be
 hospitalised with pulmonary infections etc."

I do not believe it is terribly helpful to have breastfeeding proponents actually be so ignorant of the breastfeeding literature. The argument that bf children suffer illnesses which bf provides protection against--"among a population", not individuals--is an uneducated and emotional argument. So what? If you look at the research, you know that the statistical differences are quite significant for many diseases and illnesses and you know that most studies do not even account for exclusive bf'ing. So, we can only hypothesize that as more studies recognize the inherent risks of mixed feeds, and studies are done on exclusively bf babies, the literature may well prove even greater dangers of AF.
    BTW, stating the hazards of AF in no way erradicates "the right to choose"; what it does do is assure more informed decision-making.

Tony also wrote:
"However, it is easier to be judgemental about something
 such as alcohol or tobacco or heroin with a multitude of proven dangers. The difference is that with formula there are infrequent problems"

Infrequent problems? Are you really serious?

Also:

"A simple fact - which you will dislike [as do I] - is that millions of babies mature and develop perfectly well on a diet of artificial milk." And "I am perfectly cognisant of the potential risks with formula feeds. The point which you are refusing to acknowledge is that the risks are infinitesimal."

This is a "fact"???? What exactly is "perfectly well"? This certainly is not an evidence-based statement. Nor is the second claim about "potential risks" or "infinitesimal" risks.
    I am taking you at your word that you really support bf'ing, but these are the kind of arguments that the AIM manufacturers love, b/c they know they work to sell AIM. I suggest you ask yourself how much your own views may have been influenced by culture and emotion.

Tony wrote:
"Some women will fail [and yes I know they need not, but in the real world it happens]. How do we then support them if we have previously told them that formula will scar them even if we cannot see the damage."

You are right--I would never tell a mother that these products are "poison", but all mothers have the right to know the dangers of AF. We cannot become a bf world if we act upon the fear of what might happen when a baby "needs" AIM. The more we tell the truth, the fewer babies will have this "need" and ultimately babies will have their own mothers' milk or some other mothers' milk--nothing else. I know it is different, but how do you support a mother who continues to smoke after you told her of the dangers? You support her from her strengths, while maintaining that the truth is still the truth.

Jennifer Tow, IBCLC, CT, USA

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