--- Peter de Bruyn Kops <[log in to unmask]> wrote: , we've seen > major > winter losses (50-90%) on a 2-3 year cycle in > operations > that run 50-200 colonies. Hello Timothy and Peter, I respond because I have experienced the exact type of losses every 2 to 3 years. I had a very long post written, but decided to spare the readers and cut it 90% back to a few key points. So I don’t have to keep writing it All I write below is “IMO” ;) The problem is basically, that an inability of the subpopulation to cope with your specific environmental factors exists. And the solution is creating a subpopulation of bees adapted to cope with the “environmental factors” of your particular area. Colonies should NOT be dying in mass! If they are, this suggests an inadequacy of traits exist in the subpopulation of bees, essential for survival. But, this does not point to anything wrong with an individual colony or two, or mismanagement. But instead points to a basic ‘failure of the sub population’ and subsequently, a threshold of some kind being reached in the sub population of bees to a overbearing degree which causes a correction. The traits in the sub population have a job to do, and any mass collapses suggests a ‘failure to do its job’ in supporting the population in a sustainable manner. Steps taken to repair the sub population back to fitness will solve the problem. The key point to ponder is in a book by Everett Phillips. In his most wonderful publication ‘Beekeeping; a discussion of the life of the honeybee and of the production of honey’ (1918) Pg 35 Phillips writes: “The environmental factor may be inside or outside the hive, or even inside or outside the individual bee. For example, pathogenic micro- organisms or irritating foods are inside but not part of the animal and are therefore environmental factors.” Perhaps, nowadays, we place such a great emphasis on performance at the colony level, we neglect, and GREATLY underestimate the impact from that of the environmental factor. We must therefore consider something that might not have been thought of as being an environmental factor, and that is the ‘traits possessed by the local sub population‘, which I believe are perhaps the ‘greatest environmental factor of all’ influencing beekeepers colonies, even above that of the most severe winters. To repair this environmental factor of traits lacking, (which I believe shows itself with mass die offs). I decided the best way to do this was to start up a feral recovery and integration program in my area, which seems to have succeeded with the infusion of essential traits of survival from surviving ferals from over a several county area into my sub population of bees. From this realization of how great an impact the feral recovery that I helped to achieve in my area was, I created the feralbeeproject.com to promote the practice of collecting ferals for the betterment of beekeeping. Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Pennsylvania **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************