Hello paul & All, Paul said: > But CCD is appearing in places where Imidacloprid isn't hardly > used. CCD for the most part seems to be a name for bees dying or deadouts. Actually very little of those deadouts contained the symptoms which fit the CCD team description. Many beekeepers filled out the survey hoping for a government handout. Ask for a survey this year and say a 3 pound package will given for each hive claimed as lost and see how the CCD states light up! Now there certainly are problems with our bees. I am in contact almost daily with commercial beekeepers and I can honestly say that most of those having troubles this year had troubles last year. A few new beeks are reporting troubles but most have a good idea what caused their losses. Also if the problem in Dave Hackenbergs bees had been a new pathogen then radiation would have solved the problem and it did not. Davy hackenberg said they are down to around 900 hives with only a third strong enough to split. So all thats left in the Hackenberg issue is contaminated comb which could not be removed by radiation. Hackenberg suspects neonicotinoids. I never said neonicotinoids are the cause of the so named CCD. However neonicotinoids in my opinion are causing some problems and in my opinion will continue to cause problems. The reason is they are systemic and can be found in both pollen and nectar. Also that the amounts found can change with soil buildup. Pesticide issues are difficult to prove but the chemical company has provided beekeepers with a PPM number which will kill bees. When we find dead hives and those PPM numbers then we know who owes us for the hives. If happens then if the payouts get too high for the chemical company then I would imagine some use on plants bees visit will be pulled. What I just said is not coming from me but commercial beeks pollinating neonicotinoid treated crops. I am not sure what might be in the planning stage for sub lethal damage to bees but the actual hive kills with high levels of neonicotinoids found will for sure result in a claim. My source said that the chemical company is responsible as they have said neonicotinoids would never be found other than small PPB amounts. So beekeepers have a starting point. Do you agree Paul that if beekeepers find a yard of bees dead and when the comb/pollen/honey is tested the level of neonicotinoids are at the level the chemical company has said with its own research is lethal to honey bees those beekeepers have got a claim? I do believe CCD is not caused by a new mystery problem. The CCD issue has resulted in many things learned about our bee problems and hopefully the 4 million research dollars supposed to be spent will result in new information which will help beekeepers. Bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************