Allen: The information is not hard to find on Alpatov or Bergmann and it should be basic to those into breeding anyways! One can simply go to articles referencing Alpatov with Apiacta even, and for Bergmann and his what I thought "famous" rule simply type in Bergmann's Rule 1847 in search and pull up. For what I wrote about try: http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/index.htm For map I took years laying out try: http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/therm_map.htm for breeding in basics: http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/apiacta1995.htm Now with the map above with sizes in feral layed out with climatic zones..........if one then takes FWIW a simple transparent overlay of natural race/strain breakout from the realworld and put on top you see the latitute bands of color break out from equator to poles, and from sealevel to mountain peak tops FWIW also. Nothing hard to see with straight overlays. Also, pertaining to the feral here in Tucson, we never stopped doing what we were doing and most all beekeepers have kept getting the ferals here though money was seen in condemming them as hot not wanted bees to have around, but this is expansion with housing tracts and commerce and other?, and by saying hot bees and making scenes this is how some operate, aka, pesticide operators and removal people looking for work, etc for money flow, for that time of year is coming upon us again like always does. New law now going thru legislature in Arizona with HB 2306 coincidently since fall and heating up of politics again, is making all ferals in Arizona a nuisance to now be done away with no matter where (though we managed to get the actual hives I hope protected, until next tizzy)......yet, you simply requeen the hot and go on FWIW and what beekeepers have always done.But I guess politics has to heat up again from time to time when it seems some start writing again from time to time. And some are determined that Native bees never existed, and in the wild must be done away with for job security. So the game repeats.So now if ALL feral bees in Arizona become outlaw.....let it become that way too in all other state FWIW, this time I won't stop it nor want to. D- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---